PipeChat Digest #4518 - Tuesday, May 25, 2004
Re: seeing vs. hearing.
  by "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com>
Re: 32 resultant
  by "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com>
32' Resultant
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Atlantic City news
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Jonathan Orwig, Composer - Cross Post
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
RE: AC Midmer-Losh to be "restored" ?
  by "Harry E. Martenas" <harrym@epix.net>
32' resultant
  by "black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Re: Music for D-day Anniversary
  by "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca>
Re: AC Midmer-Losh to be Saved .......  Huge Crowds
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Music from Frog Music press
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Old wine or new wine?
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Music from Frog Music press
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Atlantic City Midmer-Losh Restoration
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Atlantic City Midmer-Losh Restoration
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Music from Frog Music press
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>

(back) Subject: Re: seeing vs. hearing. From: "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:33:24 -0400   AMEN!!! I could not have said it better myself, even though there are = many wonderful EP organs out there. I must also note that one thing = that Mr. Roberts quotes time and time again is that of the Widor. It = really is very true! It's also a shame that no one really plays in the = French Symphonic style anymore...but that's another story.   Cheers, Chris Howerter ------------------- Subject: seeing vs. hearing. From: <Gfc234@aol.com<mailto:Gfc234@aol.com>> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:52:07 EDT   Dear List:=20 All of this talk about being able to see the performer has really made = me=20 think. When I attend recitals-I go for the music not the show. In = situations=20 where the performer has been visable, the greatest memories I have are = of great=20 organists, sitting calm, composed, erect, broad-shouldered, whilst = playing the=20 dickens out of the most virtuosic of organ works-these performances have =   nearly brought me to tears-on more than one occasion. In situations = where the=20 performer is not visable-I use the time to take in the surroundings, to = rid my=20 mind of the clutter, and petty garbage of the daily grind, and to = reflect on=20 the sound. =20 All of this talk about the organ being the only instrument designed = so=20 that the audience can not see the musician upsets me. Folks, the fact = is that=20 the best instruments are trackers (let's not start a fight here, please) = , and=20 the consoles are placed in the best position for the machine to function = with=20 ease and reliability: smack dab in the middle. That is the nature of = the be ast-and we had better not be sorry or apologize for it for a second! = The organ=20 was not conceived to entertain idle-minded 21st century audiences-it was =   conceived to lift up people spiritually, and to convey the innermost = thoughts of=20 musicians and composers. SO...fine, have a video screen!-I don't care-but remember-music is = for=20 the ears and the soul-let us remember the blind organist/composers who = were=20 great innovators in our profession-for they have created some of the = most colorful=20 music known to us... all with out being able to see! =20   These are quotes to live by: =20 Bach on his organ playing: =20 =E2?oThere is nothing so remarkable about it; one need only hit the = right keys at=20 the right time, and the instrument plays itself.=E2?=9D Can you say = ZEN?!? WOW!!!   Forkel on Bach: =E2?oSeb. Bach is said to have played with so easy and small a motion of = the=20 fingers that it was hardly perceptible=E2?=A6When he wished to express = strong emotions,=20 he did not do it as many do, by striking the keys with great force, but = by=20 melodical and harmonical figures, that is by the internal resources of = the art.=E2?=9D =20   Scheibe on Bach: =E2?oOne can hardly comprehend how it is possible for him to cross and = extend=E2?=A6 his fingers and feet=E2?=A6without=E2?=A6displacing his body by any = violent movement.=E2?=9D =20   Widor: =E2?oAll unjustified movement is harmful because it is a waste of time = and=20 strength. Before deciding that a movement is inevitable its usefulness = must have=20 been ascertained during the period of slow practice. That period should = be=20 lengthy. If you have the courage and conscience to make yourself do it, =   considerable time will be gained, and then you will play every virtuoso = piece in its=20 exact tempo without difficulty.   Just some thoughts,=20 cheers,=20 gfc             =20     Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com<mailto:gfc234@aol.com>    
(back) Subject: Re: 32 resultant From: "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:37:11 -0400   Dear Gary,   This all depends on the 16' Bourdon. Really the best way to have a = convincing resultant is to have 1-12 independently quinted. That is an = independent 10 2/3' that is regulated with the 16' Bourdon in order to = make a very convincing faux 32', as it were. Then notes 13-32 would = obviously be the 16' Bourdon down an octave.   Cheers, Chris ------------ Subject: 32 resultant From: "black" <gblack@ocslink.com<mailto:gblack@ocslink.com>> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:03:14 -0500   List, In my home organ I have a 32' resultant. The rank that is used is = the 16' bourdon wired in at the relay at cc and gg together and so forth up = the pedal board. It does seem to loose its strength as one goes up the = pedal board however. I guess that is the nature of the beast? Gary    
(back) Subject: 32' Resultant From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:14:45 -0500   Gary said: . It does seem to loose its strength as one goes up the pedal board however.   It's getting MORE powerful as you go up the scale......now THAT is really unexpected!! Or maybe you meant "lose," and not "loose"?         Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats    
(back) Subject: Atlantic City news From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:52:29 EDT   I welcome the news that the Conventional Hall "Big-one" has garnered some press for new restoration efforts.....But...I am nervous about a "new" = (new to me anyway) organization coming onto the scene in apparant competition with ACCHOS...AND in collaboration with Wannamaker......Could be the best of = the best (I hope) or hopefully not a case of divide and conquer... I await a heads-up from ACCHOS. regards Dick Siegel    
(back) Subject: Jonathan Orwig, Composer - Cross Post From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:59:10 -0400   We all benefit from Jonathan's work in archiving and producing forgotten works for organ, but many are unaware that he is also a composer of organ music.   May I suggest you visit: http://evensong.bounceme.net   noel jones, aago frog music press    
(back) Subject: RE: AC Midmer-Losh to be "restored" ? From: "Harry E. Martenas" <harrym@epix.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:47:06 -0400   John Foss's comments have value, but I have to agree with the majority opinion - this is an organ which should be restored/rebuilt/heard. If, for no other reason - "What were they thinking?" That is not a condemnation. It is an expression of wonderment. In the 1920's, and very much in the USA, science, technology, and manufacturing perfection seemed able to take on any challenge. Atlantic City was a preferred vacation destination, trade shows/conferences/conventions were just becoming popular, and Richards, a New Jersey state senator, was a true organ addict. How many of us would love to have been him - given the opportunity to design the largest organ ever built? How fortunate to be in the right time at the right place. Perhaps it is instructive that so few "blank checks" were ever written. Providing musical entertainment, as background, or as primary entertainment, in that vast space, was not an easy challenge. Sound systems were in their infancy - no competition from analog or digital rivals. Hire a large orchestra (which would have likely been inaudible) or commission the loudest instrument ever built. This organ was conceived and constructed as a whole, unlike most other enormous organs. I look forward to hearing more about the details of the proposed restoration. Whatever choices are made will be a compromise solution. OK - I do not believe a pure restoration to the 1932 state is feasible. I understand the recent renovation of the hall (and yes, I agree that it is criminal that the organ was not treated with more respect) required removal of one or more of the busiest relay rooms. I assume that the decision was made that any serious restoration would include computerized relays, and the space utilized for the original pressurized relay rooms could be reused for other purposes. Since this has already occurred, I will not argue about the correctness of that decision - but I dearly hope at least some of the original relays can be restored, and continue to be a functional part of the instrument. This was advanced thinking in the late 1920s. From reading Stephen Smith's most wonderful books, and recent posts to the list, I understand the combination action for the 7 manual console initially worked, but rapidly deteriorated, due to the effects of hot (and dry) steam pipes running through the basement rooms where the mechanism was located. (Atlantic City, while a resort area at the time, is located in the mid-atlantic region of the USA. Central heat is required for the late fall, winter, and early spring.) It sounds like the action was so unreliable that it was disconnected only a few years later. Think about playing an organ with many hundreds of stop tabs without a combination action. Hmmm. Restoring the combination action became impossible after a hurricane dumped thousands of gallons of water into the glass-fronted cabinetry housing amazingly intricate EP relays. Perhaps some of the spirit of the original combination action can be written into the software for a digital relay. Due to the number of stop tabs (over 1,100?) the combination action, when accessed, polled the console to see which stops were engaged, and was smart enough not to alter any stops already in use. Think about the *thump* when the registration goes from pianissimo to forte... Two other minor issues interest me in this instrument's restoration. Smith's book implies that a number of the swell boxes are not very effective for various reasons. In general, it seems that response time was considered more important than volume control. To me, this seems like an unfortunate decision - from the console, all response times would have seemed slow due to the distances involved. True volume control would be more useful. Please discuss. The percussion department was never effective. Single drums, cymbals, chimes, pianos etc. were not lost in the enormous hall, and using multiple instruments apparently did not solve the issue. Losh suggested placing a microphone in the percussion chamber, and thus providing the sounds via the PA system. This was tried, but was not considered a success. 70 years later, Schoenstein takes a similar route in Salt Lake City, using digital sounds and amplification for percussion voices. Should this aspect of the ACHE/BWH organ be addressed? Things change - things stay the same. The Boardwalk Hall organ should be restored. Harry Martenas Bloomsburg, PA    
(back) Subject: 32' resultant From: "black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:24:04 -0500   List, The resultant does go back to the lower octave when I play from = tenor c on the pedal board up, and you are right Dennis, lose is the = word and not loose. =20 I hope to get the rest of this monster playing this summer. I am = making plans to have an 8" harmonic tuba or some such on the balcony = above the foyer. Antiphonal reed would be fun. LOTS of wiring through = the attic across and down into the organ chamber etc. You must all talk = me out of this, I have created a monster. lol I am sure you all = understand too. Gary  
(back) Subject: Hector From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 06:19:48 -0500   MessageJust got my latest Theatre Organ Journal. One of the ads was for = Hector Olivera's latest on that organ recorded in "special 24 bit Stereo = enhancedSuper audiophile CD: Am sending my check today. On thinking that phrase kind of sounds = like a remastering of a previous recording. Anyone know? I have heard Hector since the 70's and I believe he is the single most = technically proficient artist I have ever heard. Jim. James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Music for D-day Anniversary From: "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 01:28:02 -0400   I know of a lot of veterans who wish they would play "The D-Day Dodgers" = to the tune of "Lili Marleen" =20   Hamish Henderson, 1944=20 There is a song the Eight Army used to sing, Marching through the desert, Marching with a swing But now they're on a different game. Although the tune Is still the same The words have all been altered, The words we're singing still:   We're the D-Day Dodgers Here in Italy, Drinking all the vino, Always on a spree. We didn't land with Eisenhower And so they think we're just a shower For we're the D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy.   We're the D-Day dodgers Here in Italy Drinking all the vino, Always on a spree. Eighth Army scroungers and their tanks, We go to war in ties like swanks. We are the D-Day Dodgers, Way out in Italy   Dearest Lady Astor, You think you're mighty hot, Standing on the platform, Talking tommyrot. Dear England's sweetheart and her pride We think your mouth's too bleeding wide - From all the D-Day Dodgers, In sunny Italy.   Here's to Lady Astor, Our pin up girl out here. She's the dear old lady, Who sends us such good beer And when we get our Astor band, We'll be the proudest in the land, For we're the D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy.   We landed in Salerno, A holiday with pay, The Jerries brought the band out To greet us on the way. Showed us the sights and gave us tea, We all sang songs, the beer was free To welcome D-Day Dodgers, To sunny Italy.   Salerno and Cassino We're takin' in our stride We didn't go to fight there, We went there for the ride Anzio and Sanzio were just names, We only went to look for dames, The artful D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy. 'round Lake Trasimano We'd a lovely time Bags of wine and women, They didn't cost a dime. Base wallahs, amgot and the yanks, All stayed in Rome, To dodge the tanks For we're the D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy.   We stayed a week in Florence, Polished off the wine, Then thumbed our way to Rimini Right through the Gothic Line Soon to Bologna we will go When Jerrys gone across the Po For we're the D-Day Dodgers, The lads that D-Day dodged.   We hear the boys in France are Going home on leave, After six months service It's a shame they're not relieved But we can carry on out here For what may be a few more years For we're the D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy.   Once we heard a rumour We were going home Back to dear old Blighty Never more to roam Then someone said in France you'll fight We answered: "No, we'll just sit tight!" For we're the D-Day Dodgers, The lads that D-Day dodged.   When the war is over And we've done our bit Climbing over mountains, Through mud and sleet and ----, Then we will all be sent out east Till B.L.A. have been released For we're the D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy.   Forgotten by the many Remembered by the few We'd our armistice when An armestice was new One million Germans gave up to us We finished our war without much fuss For we're the D-Day Dodgers, Out here in Italy.   Look around the mountains In the mud and rain You'll find scattered crosses, Some which bear no name. Heart break and toil and suffering gone The boys beneath them slumber on, For they're the D-Day Dodgers, Who stayed in Italy. =20       -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Original verses (whichever they are) written by Major Hamish = Henderson of the 51st Highland Division in response to an ill = considered, 1944 comment by Lady Astor, in the House of Commons, = accusing Soldiers in Italy of "dodging D-Day". =20      
(back) Subject: Re: AC Midmer-Losh to be Saved ....... Huge Crowds From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT)   Hi yall Been REAL busy. Matt makes a great point about the organ. So, im going to go back to = topics ago...Programming Concert music and NOT recital repertoire will be the crowd ticklers. Dupre = 2 Sketched, Widor and Vierne Symphony 1st and last mvts (well SOME widor = syms end full) tons of Bach familiars. All that goodness! And dont forget = all those GORGEOUS Lamare transcriptions!   Mattcinnj <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi All, Another factor in regard to the AC organ. It has the largest potential = audience in the world, walking by, ..... 24 hours a day, every day of the = year. Most folks would welcome the experience of hearing this organ .... = The Casino folks make sure there is very little available to "distract" = folks away from gambling. The more pipe organs people hear, outside of churches, playing secular = music ,,,,,,,,, the better for everyone and everything connected with pipe = organs. Mat     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year   From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger  
(back) Subject: Music from Frog Music press From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:04:10 -0700 (PDT)   Hi list. A few people from this list are also over at the Frog Music/Rodgers list. Frog Music just published more music by a few of us. Note: You do NOT have to have a Rodgers to play the music that is for organ solo = from Frog Music. Now, the midi music, I dunno. You can be the most unadulterated tracker backer and still play the music. Someone asked me this in an email, if the music was Just for = Rodgers/digital instruments. NO! its not. Happy Tuesday D     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger  
(back) Subject: Old wine or new wine? From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:06:20 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   It's amazing how musical performances inspire thought or bring into question one's preconceptions and prejudices.   Thus, when I was listening to the fascinating and extraordinary "pipedreams" archive programme of "Bach on the wild side," at least two of my preconceptions were shattered.   The first concerned the Bach playing of Virgil Fox; which I had always previously treated with a certain bemusement. To hear Fox play the Passacaglia in C minor at Riverside, was to hear something quite extaordinary. Sure, it has a degree of showmanship and "fire," but I also heard a maturity I had never heard before. I was really quite stunned by the power of the performance.   I then listened to Ton Koopman murdering the great B-minor; injecting some quite youthful and bombastic articulation into one of Bach's more mature works. I was not impressed, in spite of the fact that I have a great respect for much that Ton Koopman does.   Of course, on that particular "pipedreams" programme, the BWV565 (the D minor) was always going to feature heavily, and I was not disappointed. What struck me, was the degree of liberty which this work permits, from near jazz to almost completely re-composing the work. Somehow, it still hangs together and makes good music, no matter if the organist picks the work up by the ankles and swings it around his head.   I then asked myself why I found "wild" interpretations of the BWV565 entirely acceptable, and the Ton Koopman B-minor so utterly offensive.   Surely, the answer lies within the music and with Bach himself?   Or is it something else?   Then I listened to a few excerpts from the Calgary Organ Festival, where Cameron Carpenter plays the Middelshulte "Perpetuem Mobile" at least as well as Virgil Fox and my 16 year old classmate ever did....yes I had an absolute organ virtuoso in my class.   I think I stumbled upon the answer I was searching for as I listened.   Youth draws attention to itself, stretches the physical boundaries of performance and delights in climbing artistic and technical pinnacles. I recall reading a book about climbing the Himalayan mountain K2 in which were the words ......"It's a very technically challenging mountain."   Of course, ask a mountaineer why they climb a mountain, and they will always respond, "because it's there!"   Over the weekend, I witnessed a near fourteen year old boy take his first headlong plunge into a river from a bridge 50ft above it. I asked him why he felt he had to do it, to which he replied, "I don't know, but it was great!"   So however outrageous one gets with the BWV565, it somehow seems to be in the spirit of wild youth, climbing mountains and taking risks.....a young man showing off and having fun.   I don't know what maturity is, and hope that I never fully attain it, but with the B-minor we hear musical depth from the pen of a seasoned genius. By the time that Bach wrote that work, he had already lost children, suffered abuse from both aristocrats and churchmen, worked like a dog and had probably climbed every musical peak there was to be climbed. The music has soul in a way that the BWV565 could never have.   So I end with a question.   Should performers and interpretors be aware of a composer's time-scale, and the changes which occur in a composer's lifetime?   It just seems to me, that when a BWV565 has no fire or exuberance, it is the same as levelling a mountain rather than scaling it. Similarly, to drive a bulldozer through a mature forest, does tend to draw attention to oneself, which is exactly what Ton Koopman does with the B-minor!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Music from Frog Music press From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:28:21 EDT   but they would prefer you only play it on a Rodgers. <EG>   Has anyone seen the new Wedding Book from Concordia Publishing House and Rodgers? Rodney L. Barbour was editor and MIDIist(?)---- good stuff too.   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Atlantic City Midmer-Losh Restoration From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:30 EDT   Dear List Members: Consider the possibility that if a commitment has been made to restore =   this monument, the sponsors have embarked upon a search for the best = specialists. Such a project requires the research, knowledge, experience, and labor = of many people in many fields, from materials degradation to tonal finishing, =   from wood conservation to those who understand the aging process of early 20th-century synthetics. Much about that organ is unique, from the methods used to form the pneumatic pouches, to the voicing techniques on what some might consider = extreme pressures. Nobody is going to dive into this endeavor blindly, and many decisions =   must be made. Hypothetically, some might jump at the idea of replacing the =   relay. Yet with no changes to the specification, and the absolutely = exquisite beauty of the way it is wired, others would argue that only damaged = sections should be replaced, and in the original manner at that. This post is NOT a call = to debate those matters; rather it is to note that it is more than likely = this will be done responsibly, with much forethought, and that philosophical = dilemmas will arise constantly. Neither mass speculation nor persistent interference nor fanciful = rumor has ever enhanced the results of a pipe organ project. It might be more productive to donate funds to the cause, and hope that the rededication = falls within our lifetime.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City Midmer-Losh Restoration From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:08:29 -0400   On 5/25/04 11:40 AM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote:   > hope that the rededication falls within our lifetime.   I claim to be a man of faith, but such heroic storming of heaven would be = a bit presumptuous in my case. For the rest of your, however, I'll offer my little petition, and ask that you remember me at the after-party! Bon apetit! and Prosit!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Music from Frog Music press From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:37:58 -0400   We are an equal opportunity publisher and don't care what kind of organ you play it on!   A rather large number of members of the Rodgers Organ Users Group (our email discussion group that covers Rodgers and MIDI) do not play Rodgers but pay other digitals, analogs (now that's a feisty contingent!) and pipes, pipe combinations and virtual pipes.   Anyone may participate, and there is rarely a negative word heard because it also is a fully moderated group so it is safe for even the most cautious web dweller...   No charge, no requirements...it is an independent group...not sponsored by Rodgers Isntruments LLC.   Rodney's book is great, it takes the best from the Concordia Wedding Series and adds a few. Wedding Processional and Recessionals CPH 97-7069 $30   It should be available now at www.cph.org on line or from your local music store.   noel jones, aago www.frogmusic.com   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > but they would prefer you only play it on a Rodgers. <EG> > > Has anyone seen the new Wedding Book from Concordia Publishing House and =   > Rodgers? Rodney L. Barbour was editor and MIDIist(?)---- good stuff = too. > > dale in florida