PipeChat Digest #4520 - Wednesday, May 26, 2004
 
Re: An interesting experience
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
looking for organ buyers and sellers [cross-posted]
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
studio privileges
  by "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com>
Re: studio privileges
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: WAS: Music from Frog Music press Now Virtual Pipes
  by "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com>
Re: studio privileges
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tlevans95@charter.net>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: WAS: Music from Frog Music press Now Virtual Pipes
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: studio privileges
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
 

(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:00:44 +0100 (BST)   Monty Bennett wrote: My point, which will inflame many listers, is that I have been asked by many people from the congregation when the pipe organ was going to be up and playing again because they miss the sound of the pipe organ.   Why do you think list members should be inflamed, Monty? I would have thought the reverse would have been true. Surely most members, whilst admitting the role of electronic substiutes, prefer pipe organs? Now if they had said "We don't need that old heap of junk ...." then maybe some hackles would rise. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Point and Counterpoint The Never Ending Story Strauss's "Alpine Symphony" CD and DVD death   Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com =    
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:42:55 EDT   >Monty: I enjoy reading accounts like the one you've provided. I'm sorry = to >hear of your trouble but I never tire of hearing about "screw-ups" = committed >by other organ outfits. It's interesting to read you have about 3000 = action >magnets as well as a solenoid console (I presume) running off a 7 amp = >power supply. >From what I've read I harbour a suspicion that a new larger blower may = not >necessarily solve the wind sag problem. You may have issues with wind >conveyances being too small or reservoirs and/or schwimmers that don't >regulate properly. I wouldn't assume either that a larger rectifier will >solve other problems. If the wiring in place cannot handle the "juice" >required a 7000 amp rectifier won't make much difference to the organs >performance. It's similar to installing a larger diameter water main to = your >house in an attempt to increase the pressure and volume of water at the = tap >without replacing the old ?" plumbing in the house. I'm not suggesting = that >your wiring is definately at fault. But you should be aware that it could >be.   In addition to checking the blower, that was undersized, the schwimmers = were all checked out, they all seem to be fine, but they found that the blower = just wasn't providing enough wind for the size of the organ. Once the new = blower is in, we're going to see if that takes care of the wind sag, but the old blower was considerably undersized for the organ.   As for the rectifier, we had a 50 amp rectifier that had burned out, so in =   this whole process, new wiring is also being done, of the proper gauge, = since the old wiring was not the proper gauge, which was part of the cause of = this whole fiasco. Our organ guys were also concerned that the caliber of the = wiring was not up to par either, so they were worried that given the state of the =   old rectifier, there was a good chance for a short to occur and a fire to = start somewhere. The antiphonal division has it's own rectifier and blower, so they have = been unaffected by these problems, only the main organ.   Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC    
(back) Subject: looking for organ buyers and sellers [cross-posted] From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:28:23 -0500   I am NOT starting another pipes vs. digitial debate - so if you start one it isn't my fault. ;-)   Please contact me off list if: 1) your church has bought an organ (pipe or digital) in the last 5 years 2) you have sold organs (pipe or digital) to churches in the last 5 years. I have just a handful of questions for you.   Someone out there on one of the lists said there was evidence of some churches moving away from praise bands and back to organs or some such - if you said that, or know of churches who may have stopped using or reduced the use of their organs and are now increasing again - please contact me.   All you organ builders and sellers, if you can give me an idea of overall pattern of sales - are organ sales rising, falling, stable - over the last 5 years - please contact me.   (Yep - I'm gathering info for non-musician, bottom-line, investment/finance types who are primary decision makers.)   I will eagerly await your responses - off list, please. Thanks! Margo -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio    
(back) Subject: studio privileges From: "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:56:05 -0700 (PDT)   Greetings all: For those of you serving churches (part-time or full-time), I have the = following question: Are you allowed studio privileges as part of your church employment? = Please comment. I am once again having to convince my pastor that I should be allowed to = use the church's piano and organ for private lessons. This was allowed = last year, although I had only one organ student and a brief voice lesson = or two. All of a sudden, this year the issue has to be revisited. I am = whining a little, since I desperately need the money during the summer = when I have no college income, and my pastor seems at time to suffer from = convenient amnesia. In my 30+ years of church experience, this is the = first time I have ever had to defend my access to studio privileges. Thanks in advance! Richard Hazelip    
(back) Subject: Re: studio privileges From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:18:38 -0500   Yes - absolutely. Organ is a bit of a trick, because of all the rehearsals and activities to schedule around in the sanctuary - not to mention lights and AC cost. Piano is no problem at all - both the choir director and I teach piano - we use separate room and teach at the same time - no problem.   Richard Hazelip wrote: > Greetings all: > > For those of you serving churches (part-time or full-time), I have the > following question: > > Are you allowed studio privileges as part of your church employment? > Please comment. > > I am once again having to convince my pastor that I should be allowed to =   > use the church's piano and organ for private lessons. This was allowed > last year, although I had only one organ student and a brief voice > lesson or two. All of a sudden, this year the issue has to be > revisited. I am whining a little, since I desperately need the money > during the summer when I have no college income, and my pastor seems at > time to suffer from convenient amnesia. In my 30+ years of church > experience, this is the first time I have ever had to defend my access > to studio privileges. > > Thanks in advance! > > Richard Hazelip     -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio    
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:14:48 -0700   >As for the rectifier, we had a 50 amp rectifier that had burned out, >so in this whole process, new wiring is also being done, of the >proper gauge, since the old wiring was not the proper gauge, which >was part of the cause of this whole fiasco. Our organ guys were >also concerned that the caliber of the wiring was not up to par >either, so they were worried that given the state of the old >rectifier, there was a good chance for a short to occur and a fire >to start somewhere.   I think this is one of the reasons now that the electrical code requires separate runs that are fused individually. i think it is 6 Amp per branch? size of the wire plays a role in this...   I believe the NEC actually has a section on the wiring of organs.   John V  
(back) Subject: Re: WAS: Music from Frog Music press Now Virtual Pipes From: "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:27:38 -0500   > Subject: WAS: Music from Frog Music press Now Virtual Pipes > From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:35:36 -0400 > > >What are virtual pipes? > > An excellent example is HAUPTWERK: check out the sounds and info at > www.virtuallybaroque.com   Expanding on this a little, it appears that the Hauptwerk project has = taken digital sampling to a higher degree, specifically that *every* note of *every* stop of an entire pipe organ is sampled for 3-5 seconds and stored in memory, able to be played back via a MIDI keyboard or via a MIDI sequencing program. This preserves for all time (in digital form, similar = to a ultra-high resolution scan of artwork) a particular organ's sounds, offering some protection against if the organ falls into disrepair in the future and also offering access to those unable to physically go and play the organ.   This page <http://www.hauptwerk.co.uk/UserDoc-050-HardwareAndSoftwareRequirements.htm= l > provides an interesting insight into the technical aspects/system = requirements for a computer to run the Hauptwerk program and store the samples. Huge amounts of RAM as well as a fast processor are required for optimum = results when wanting to play many stops at once. But smaller virtual organs or = fewer stops from larger ones can be used when either or both those requirements are compromised. As is always the case, what you hear will not rise above the quality of the speakers and audio system through which you hear it. These things notwithstanding, I think this is a commendable project.   --Richard Huggins    
(back) Subject: Re: studio privileges From: "Travis L. Evans" <tlevans95@charter.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:23:15 -0500   I've always had them. I can't understand why you wouldn't be allowed to = give lessons. What is his reasoning for not wanting to allow it? Where = else are people going to learn to play the organ, not many of us have = them in our living rooms to give lessons on. =20   Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard Hazelip=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:56 AM Subject: studio privileges     Greetings all:   For those of you serving churches (part-time or full-time), I have the = following question:   Are you allowed studio privileges as part of your church employment? = Please comment.   I am once again having to convince my pastor that I should be allowed = to use the church's piano and organ for private lessons. This was = allowed last year, although I had only one organ student and a brief = voice lesson or two. All of a sudden, this year the issue has to be = revisited. I am whining a little, since I desperately need the money = during the summer when I have no college income, and my pastor seems at = time to suffer from convenient amnesia. In my 30+ years of church = experience, this is the first time I have ever had to defend my access = to studio privileges.   Thanks in advance!   Richard Hazelip  
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:49:26 -0400   At 06:20 PM 2004-05-25 -0400, you wrote: >For the past month or so, our pipe organ has been down, while we have = been >having repairs done on it. Long story short--the company who "built" it >(read: installed a used pipe organ and added a few used ranks and a few >new supply house ranks and chests), is now bankrupt and the owner moved = to >California, and I am told he now sells insurance. Anyway, the instrument =   >is just 10 years old, but the wiring was not done properly, and due to >this fact, the organ, which is on all electro-mechanical action, all but >burned out the rectifier, which was not properly sized for the organ to >begin with. That, coupled with a blower that was undersized for the >organ, were causing some interesting problems, such as many dead notes = due >to not enough current to run the magnets to the chests and not enough >wind, and wind sag that would make even the most serious purist roll = their >eyes. > >My point, which will inflame many listers, is that I have been asked by >many people from the congregation when the pipe organ was going to be up >and playing again because they miss the sound of the pipe organ. They >can't always explain what it is about the sound that they miss, but they >use terms like "majesty," "fullness," "richness," or they explain that >nothing compares to the sound of the pipe organ. We have had a decent 3 >manual digital from a large company in the Pacific Northwest with plenty >of speakers and two subwoofers. It was voiced by one of their managers >and was plenty loud enough for the room, and, if anything I felt it to be =   >too loud by itself, but it was fine when 1100+ in the congregation and a >good 80+ in the choir were singing. We have speakers all over the front >of the church, so sound is evenly spread, and truthfully, it sounds = pretty >good. I am just amazed when people from the congregation come up and = make >statements to me like that out of the blue. I really had no idea that >"ordinary" people would be able to tell the difference or even care = enough >to ask me when the pipe organ would be back playing. It's happened = weekly >that people have made these comments to me. If everything gets finished >up, the pipe organ will be back up and running for this Sunday. > >Flame me if you wish, I'm just making a report of my experiences over the =   >past several weeks.....I'm not trying to start a war of pipes vs. >digitals. I would rather play a good digital over a poor pipe organ any =   >day. On the other hand, I would rather play a good solid pipe organ over =   >anything. The bottom line is that I'm going to make music on whatever = I'm >given to play, but people in my congregation can tell the difference >between pipes and non-pipes--and they LOVE their Hammond, too!!! (as = every >musically diverse church should) > >Monty Bennett >Friendship Baptist Church >Charlotte, NC   Monty,   I think you said exactly correctly. Although electronic organs for the most part are better than in years past, they still do not move air like pipes do. So the sound as it couples to the room, feels different. I suppose with more hardware, and a good deal more audio (audio channels, speakers etc.), they get to sound more like the real thing, it also means climbing up the price rung.   I recently had the privilege of seeing, hearing, and playing the new Marshall & Ogletree organ at Trinity, Wall Street. I got to see it just after the latest software updates. I must say, that organ was pretty amazing sounding. But it had 74 audio channels, long samples for every note (pipe) on the organ, roughly 200 ranks total, and a huge price tag. So, really good electronic organs, end up being very expensive. The =   best electronic organ I have ever heard. Anybody interested in electronic =   organs, should make a pilgrimage to Manhatten and hear this one.   In the end, I do think a good pipe organ, is the best there can be, and = one shouldn't be flamed for saying that.   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263  
(back) Subject: Re: WAS: Music from Frog Music press Now Virtual Pipes From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:56:16 -0400   At 08:27 AM 2004-05-26 -0500, you wrote: > > Subject: WAS: Music from Frog Music press Now Virtual Pipes > > From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> > > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:35:36 -0400 > > > > >What are virtual pipes? > > > > An excellent example is HAUPTWERK: check out the sounds and info at > > www.virtuallybaroque.com > >Expanding on this a little, it appears that the Hauptwerk project has = taken >digital sampling to a higher degree, specifically that *every* note of >*every* stop of an entire pipe organ is sampled for 3-5 seconds and = stored >in memory, able to be played back via a MIDI keyboard or via a MIDI >sequencing program. This preserves for all time (in digital form, similar = to >a ultra-high resolution scan of artwork) a particular organ's sounds, >offering some protection against if the organ falls into disrepair in the >future and also offering access to those unable to physically go and play >the organ. > >This page ><http://www.hauptwerk.co.uk/UserDoc-050-HardwareAndSoftwareRequirements.ht= ml> >provides an interesting insight into the technical aspects/system = requirements >for a computer to run the Hauptwerk program and store the samples. Huge >amounts of RAM as well as a fast processor are required for optimum = results >when wanting to play many stops at once. But smaller virtual organs or = fewer >stops from larger ones can be used when either or both those requirements >are compromised. As is always the case, what you hear will not rise above >the quality of the speakers and audio system through which you hear it. >These things notwithstanding, I think this is a commendable project. > >--Richard Huggins   Richard & list,   This hauptwerk program is starting to take off. A new release is coming out shortly, if it hasn't already. My guess is that it is going to start hurting the manufacturers of electronic organs.   One thing though, as Richard mentioned, you do need a highspeed PC, with lots and lost of memory.   Our company builds MIDI equipment that is designed to work well with Hauptwerk, or J-organ. Just need a used console, and away you go, after some work, amateur organbuilding style.   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Re: studio privileges From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:56:34 -0500   I am not the organist, but I can comment that our church has a strict policy that the musical instruments in the sanctuary are only to be used for worship related music. I know our organist would like to give lessons =   on the organ, but is prohibited from doing so and I suspect that it is probably addressed in his contract. I would like to have access to the organ, but since I do not play well enough to be able to sub, I will not get the opportunity and will have to be satisfied with the Conn at home.   Jon     At 08:23 AM 5/26/04, you wrote:   >I've always had them. I can't understand why you wouldn't be allowed to >give lessons. What is his reasoning for not wanting to allow it? Where >else are people going to learn to play the organ, not many of us have = them >in our living rooms to give lessons on. > >Travis >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:rhazelip1@yahoo.com>Richard Hazelip >To: <mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org>pipechat@pipechat.org >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:56 AM >Subject: studio privileges > >Greetings all: > >For those of you serving churches (part-time or full-time), I have the >following question: > >Are you allowed studio privileges as part of your church >employment? Please comment. > >I am once again having to convince my pastor that I should be allowed to >use the church's piano and organ for private lessons. This was allowed >last year, although I had only one organ student and a brief voice lesson =   >or two. All of a sudden, this year the issue has to be revisited. I am >whining a little, since I desperately need the money during the summer >when I have no college income, and my pastor seems at time to suffer from =   >convenient amnesia. In my 30+ years of church experience, this is the >first time I have ever had to defend my access to studio privileges. > >Thanks in advance! > >Richard Hazelip