PipeChat Digest #4522 - Wednesday, May 26, 2004
 
Re: studio privileges
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: An interesting experience
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: studio privileges
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: "studio privileges" ... important notes
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Ducommun info sought
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: studio privileges
  by "brade" <beveland@millsauto.com>
Re: Old wine or new wine?
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Concert Announcement
  by "BRUCE SHAW" <bruce.shaw@shaw.ca>
Studio Privileges
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
RE: studio privileges
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: An Interesting Experience
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Concert Announcement
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: An interesting experience......
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: An Interesting Experience
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: studio privileges From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:17:08 -0400   On 5/26/04 8:56 AM, "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> wrote:   > Greetings all: > > For those of you serving churches (part-time or full-time), I have the > following question: > > Are you allowed studio privileges as part of your church employment? = Please > comment. > > I am once again having to convince my pastor that I should be allowed to = use > the church's piano and organ for private lessons. This was allowed last = year, > although I had only one organ student and a brief voice lesson or two. = All of > a sudden, this year the issue has to be revisited. I am whining a = little, > since I desperately need the money during the summer when I have no = college > income, and my pastor seems at time to suffer from convenient amnesia. = In my > 30+ years of church experience, this is the first time I have ever had = to > defend my access to studio privileges. > > Thanks in advance! > > Richard Hazelip > >      
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:17:53 EDT   >Why do you think list members should be inflamed, >Monty? I would have thought the reverse would have >been true. Surely most members, whilst admitting the >role of electronic substiutes, prefer pipe organs? Now >if they had said "We don't need that old heap of junk >..." then maybe some hackles would rise. >John Foss   I only said that I would probably inflame some members because some people =   are so strongly attached to their electronic instruments that they think = that ripping out an ailing pipe organ and throwing in a digital is the way to = go, rather than doing some minor repairs to the pipe organ. We've seen it on here many times before. Look at how many people serve churches where they have torn out pipe organs and replaced them with = digitals or combos because they just needed to be releathered or needed a new console because the digital salesman gave thema big song and dance? There is a = place for digital organs when a pipe organ would suffer due to lack of proper = maintenance, or poor placement, or if only three ranks would fit in the space provided = to lead a congregation of 700, BUT, I think that a pipe organ should always = be the instrument of choice given the option.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:22:10 -0400   At 11:31 AM 2004-05-26 -0400, you wrote: >Monty, > >The quality of any organ depends on how it is set up and voiced to the >building. now when I read: > > "We have had a decent 3 manual digital from a large company in the > Pacific Northwest with plenty of speakers and two subwoofers. It was > voiced by one of their managers and was plenty loud enough for the room, =   > and, if anything I felt it to be too loud by itself, but it was fine = when > 1100+ in the congregation and a good 80+ in the choir were singing. We > have speakers all over the front of the church, so sound is evenly > spread, and truthfully, it sounds pretty good. I am just amazed when > people from the congregation come up and make statements to me like that =   > out of the blue. I really had no idea that "ordinary" people would be > able to tell the difference or even care enough to ask me when the pipe > organ would be back playing. It's happened weekly that people have made =   > these comments to me. If everything gets finished up, the pipe organ > will be back up and running for this Sunday." > >This tells me that you had a Rodgers on loan from the company that is >selling you the Ruffatti and Musicom Digital Organ. > >If I were selling you THAT combination and loaning you a RODGERS to be >used while your current pipe organ is in failure mode, an instrument tnat =   >needs replaced anyhow, I wonder how I would voice a Rodgers? > >noel jones >www.frogmusic.com Noel,   I'm sure YOU would voice it to the BEST of your ABILITY. You never know, even a temporary instrument can sell you another instrument.   And as good as Rodgers may sound, they still sound like an electronic = organ in the end, and fall short of a good pipe organ. When Rodgers stops selling pipe-electronic combination instruments then I will know that the top brass believes electronic organs are equal or better than pipes.   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Re: studio privileges From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:21:31 -0400   On 5/26/04 8:56 AM, "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> wrote:   > Are you allowed studio privileges as part of your church employment? Ple= ase > comment. > =20 Oops, and sorry. The question should not even exist. Of COURSE!   (I suppose it COULD be abused, but I=B9ve never heard of it coming anywhere NEAR happening!)   I suppose that if a congregation had a real =B3principle=B2 against people learning music, they=B9d want to discourage it by making sure that THEIR facility doesn=B9t get used for such Satanic purpose. But come ON!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: "studio privileges" ... important notes From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:40:50 EDT   If you are going to insist that practice and teaching access be = written into your contract, remember that these are two VERY different things. One = can easily argue that practice is critical to job performance, yet use of the church for personal income purposes is certainly NOT a "given," as much as = we would like it to be. One way to appease the "powers that be" is to word your agreement (if = it gets that far) to say that you can use the church "so long as it does not interfere with the regular and normal use of the church." They will NEVER = agree to a contract that permits use of the church and instrument "at the = organist's convenience." Finally, remember that their attorneys may smell liability issues. If = you are injured by a falling reliquary while practicing for a service, or = struck by an ocean liner while playing for a Bar Mitzvah, that is very different = than having your student fall over the gallery railing while you're teaching = them a lesson at 8 pm on a Thursday. To avoid all problems, get yourself one of these:   http://www.glucknewyork.com/alexander/alexander.html   The two color photos will enlarge with a double-click. You can also go to = the instruments menu at the top of the page and view stoplists of smaller models...   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: Ducommun info sought From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:43:44 -0700   Hello Friends,   In my continuing quest for scores as I research my Organ Symphonie book, = I am running into an occasional dead end..   From reading in Henderson, I understand Samuel Ducommun wrote an organ = symphonie, although I've not found any source for it. Anyone out there = who has more info/copy of the manuscript or score?   Thanks,   Jonathan Orwig http://www.blackiris.com/orwig (personal site) http://evensong.bounceme.net (publishing site with mp3 and pdf = examples)         --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.686 / Virus Database: 447 - Release Date: 5/14/2004  
(back) Subject: Re: studio privileges From: "brade" <beveland@millsauto.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:53:32 -0500   I agree with your statement and inquired about that with the pastor. The church organist was initially asked to play for the wedding but declined = and the church contract does not require a bench fee be paid.   Arrogance gone a-muck Weddings really can be a nuisance.       > Um, that's kind of a different issue. If you look at the sample AGO > contract, "bench fees" are in it. The incumbent organist is normally > guaranteed his/her customary fee if another organist plays for a > NON-parochial service (wedding or funeral), since otherwise that's money > out of the incumbent's pocket. > > I got to the point toward the end of my career where I gave AWAY > weddings because they were such a nuisance. In that case, of course, the > "bench fee" rule wasn't applicable, since I CHOSE not to play for them. > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Old wine or new wine? From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:32:44 -0400     Colin,   I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments here. Especially Bach's = organ music needs to have musical insights, rather than just playing it adequately. I have yet to come across an organist whose playing I find satisfying right across the board.   I remember a long time ago, I bought an LP of Daniel Chorzempa playing a Bach recital on the Flentrop restored organ in Breda. Absolutely = wonderful playing by a young organist. He played BWV 565, 532, 543, and the Passacaglia. Fine energetic playing, without lickety split speeds of today. Well somewhere between about 1970 and 1980, Mr. Chorzempa decided to re-think his Bach playing. Phillips subsequently released this same recital on CD, but added the P & F in E flat ( the one with the triple fugue). His playing slowed down to a crawl by 1980. He takes about 25 minutes to play this piece. It is majesterial, but lifeless.   Recently I picked up a CD of Simon Preston playing Bach. I think it is a compilation disc. His playing is certainly secure, but my-oh-my, is it ever fast. Too fast for the music to speak for itself.   And Colin you are right about Ton Koopman. When he is on he is dynamite. When he is not, he is almost unlistenable, IMHO.   Good post Colin.   Arie V.         At 07:06 AM 2004-05-25 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >It's amazing how musical performances inspire thought >or bring into question one's preconceptions and >prejudices. > >Thus, when I was listening to the fascinating and >extraordinary "pipedreams" archive programme of "Bach >on the wild side," at least two of my preconceptions >were shattered. > >The first concerned the Bach playing of Virgil Fox; >which I had always previously treated with a certain >bemusement. To hear Fox play the Passacaglia in C >minor at Riverside, was to hear something quite >extaordinary. Sure, it has a degree of showmanship and >"fire," but I also heard a maturity I had never heard >before. I was really quite stunned by the power of the >performance. > >I then listened to Ton Koopman murdering the great >B-minor; injecting some quite youthful and bombastic >articulation into one of Bach's more mature works. I >was not impressed, in spite of the fact that I have a >great respect for much that Ton Koopman does. > >Of course, on that particular "pipedreams" programme, >the BWV565 (the D minor) was always going to feature >heavily, and I was not disappointed. What struck me, >was the degree of liberty which this work permits, >from near jazz to almost completely re-composing the >work. Somehow, it still hangs together and makes good >music, no matter if the organist picks the work up by >the ankles and swings it around his head. > >I then asked myself why I found "wild" interpretations >of the BWV565 entirely acceptable, and the Ton Koopman >B-minor so utterly offensive. > >Surely, the answer lies within the music and with Bach >himself? > >Or is it something else? > >Then I listened to a few excerpts from the Calgary >Organ Festival, where Cameron Carpenter plays the >Middelshulte "Perpetuem Mobile" at least as well as >Virgil Fox and my 16 year old classmate ever >did....yes I had an absolute organ virtuoso in my >class. > >I think I stumbled upon the answer I was searching for >as I listened. > >Youth draws attention to itself, stretches the >physical boundaries of performance and delights in >climbing artistic and technical pinnacles. I recall >reading a book about climbing the Himalayan mountain >K2 in which were the words ......"It's a very >technically challenging mountain." > >Of course, ask a mountaineer why they climb a >mountain, and they will always respond, "because it's >there!" > >Over the weekend, I witnessed a near fourteen year old >boy take his first headlong plunge into a river from a >bridge 50ft above it. I asked him why he felt he had >to do it, to which he replied, "I don't know, but it >was great!" > >So however outrageous one gets with the BWV565, it >somehow seems to be in the spirit of wild youth, >climbing mountains and taking risks.....a young man >showing off and having fun. > >I don't know what maturity is, and hope that I never >fully attain it, but with the B-minor we hear musical >depth from the pen of a seasoned genius. By the time >that Bach wrote that work, he had already lost >children, suffered abuse from both aristocrats and >churchmen, worked like a dog and had probably climbed >every musical peak there was to be climbed. The music >has soul in a way that the BWV565 could never have. > >So I end with a question. > >Should performers and interpretors be aware of a >composer's time-scale, and the changes which occur in >a composer's lifetime? > >It just seems to me, that when a BWV565 has no fire or >exuberance, it is the same as levelling a mountain >rather than scaling it. Similarly, to drive a >bulldozer through a mature forest, does tend to draw >attention to oneself, which is exactly what Ton >Koopman does with the B-minor! > >Regards, > >Colin Mitchell UK   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Concert Announcement From: "BRUCE SHAW" <bruce.shaw@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:43:28 -0600   I will be performing on the Davis Concert Organ   (http://www.winspearcentre.com/content.asp?catid=3D47&rootid=3D2)   in concert with the Cosmopolitan Music Society   Francis Winspear Centre for Music Edmonton, Alberta, Canada   Sunday, June 6th 7:30-9:30 p.m.   Featured works:   The Phantom of the Opera (excerpt) Les Miserables (excerpts)        
(back) Subject: Studio Privileges From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:59:19 -0700   =3D-> I am not the organist, but I can comment that our church has a strict policy that the musical instruments in the sanctuary are only to be used for worship related music. I know our organist would like to give lessons on the organ, but is prohibited from doing so and I suspect that it is probably addressed in his contract. I would like to have access to the organ, but since I do not play well enough to be able to sub, I will not get the opportunity and will have to be satisfied with the Conn at home. <-=3D     That is a breathtakingly stingy policy. I've never run across anything like this before.   Most churches take the position that the facilities are the property of the congregation, not the pastor or any committees, and that those who have a need -- and proper training -- to use the church's musical instruments are allowed to do so as long as it does not interfere with the staff's needs.   And I do not have any problem with that. The few times I've come to the church and found someone practicing or using the music room, they immediate acquiesced to me. No big deal.   I also have the say over whether or not I teach at either of my churches although I do not have any pupils at present. In fact, the wish has been expressed at both churches that I =3Dwould=3D give piano lessons, but I just don't have space in my weekly schedule -- especially since both churches are a fairly substantial drive from home.   If I =3DDID=3D want to teach, and the church or pastor said NO, then yes I would certainly be looking for another situation. There are far too many churches begging for organists to stay in a place with such disregard for what may, for some musicians, form a significant part of their income. ESPECIALLY if this had been granted and then denied. What kind of B.S. is that?!   If churches are not willing to allow new students of the organ, piano, and voice to be taught there, and to use their facilities for practicing, where will the next generation of employees and music staff come from?   Yeah, I know ... Just try to rationalize that with some pastors and committees. Many of them are not exactly known for ludic, logical thinking are they...     ~ C    
(back) Subject: RE: studio privileges From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:16:52 -0500   At 11:00 AM 5/26/04, you wrote: >Jon, how do you put up with this, especially if you have no other access >to a pipe organ?   It is not a problem for me....I do have access to other pipe organs. I provided this example to answer the original question. I can understand a church opposition to someone playing music not appropriate for the sanctuary. Different churches have a different ideas in this area. When I was working for the organ service company (many years ago) the pastor of a =   church asked me to play something when we had finished our tuning. My response was I didn't have anything appropriate that I could play in a church..whereas he said anything would be fine and commented that some of the things that their regular organist played during off hours sounded = like a half lit Jesse Crawford. I rewarded his request with some pop tunes including "Five Foot Two, Eyes of Blue" which was a favorite of the gent I =   was working with...I think my church is a bit too constrained, but I = didn't join the church to play their organ and as long as I continue to be fed spiritually I am content to remain there. As a member of a TO group I have =   access to theatre pipe organs in the area and hope before too much longer will be able to play some Bach on my Wurlitzer as well as on my Conn.   Jon      
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:32:32 -0400   Arie,   Rodgers has learned, I suppose, in the years since it began as a fledgling firm in the late 1950's. only to grow to become a major force in organ building with its digital and pipe instruments beloved by their owners, to take comments such as yours with a thick skin.   Wasn't it Alice Coolidge at the White House who said, "If you haven't got anything nice to say, sit next to me!"   noel jones www.frogmusic.com   PS: I especially enjoyed your comment about a possible drop of 10 or 15 organ sales in a year causing ruin of a firm...can I forward my Nigerian Millionaire emails to you too? Just cause somebody says it on the internet doesn't make it true, dear readers.        
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:44:57 EDT   In a message dated 5/26/2004 2:32:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, gedeckt@usit.net writes:   > drop of 10 or 15 > organ sales in a year causing ruin of a firm...   THIS INDEED COULD CLOSE A COMPANY--------------i can think of one and it would hurt ANY of the remaining builders.   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:03:06 -0400   At 02:32 PM 2004-05-26 -0400, you wrote: >Arie, > >Rodgers has learned, I suppose, in the years since it began as a = fledgling >firm in the late 1950's. only to grow to become a major force in organ >building with its digital and pipe instruments beloved by their owners, = to >take comments such as yours with a thick skin. > >Wasn't it Alice Coolidge at the White House who said, "If you haven't got =   >anything nice to say, sit next to me!" > >noel jones >www.frogmusic.com > >PS: I especially enjoyed your comment about a possible drop of 10 or 15 >organ sales in a year causing ruin of a firm...can I forward my Nigerian >Millionaire emails to you too? Just cause somebody says it on the = internet >doesn't make it true, dear readers.   Noel,   NOW I'M REALLY CONFUSED!   Are you saying that if you were in this dealer's position, you would do a less than stellar job. Or are you saying that Rodgers is the equal of a fine pipe organ? Or are you saying that this dealer somehow is not faithful to the mother-corp (Rodgers)? Somehow I get the feeling that = your favorite organ company has been slighted.   Also, about the roll your own organs such as Hauptwerk - I know they are selling somewhere between 10 and 20 registered versions per month. I = would suggest that to the industry that means at least 5 to 10 lost sales per month. That is significant. Now mind you at this stage, it will affect for the most part the lowest priced organ market, where organ = manufacturers make almost no money. But things are-a-changin.   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Re: An Interesting Experience From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:01:02 EDT   >This tells me that you had a Rodgers on loan from the company that is >selling you the Ruffatti and Musicom Digital Organ. > >If I were selling you THAT combination and loaning you a RODGERS to be >used while your current pipe organ is in failure mode, an instrument >tnat needs replaced anyhow, I wonder how I would voice a Rodgers? > >noel jones >www.frogmusic.com   I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take this response.... First things first, however. Our Ruffatti reps are not the Rodgers = dealers for our area, so they can not provide us with a Rodgers, since it is out = of their territory. Had they been able to, they would have done so, and done = a better installation.   Second, our current pipe organ is not being replaced by the new organ. We =   are building a new 3,000 seat building, that is why we are buying the new = organ. The new church will be across the street from our present facility, so = our present buildings will be turned into a Christian school, and the = sanctuary will serve as the chapel for the school and the chapel for the new church. = We are keeping the current pipe organ. It is not in failure mode, we are = just having it fixed, to prevent it from going into failure mode.   Thirdly, we (Ruffatti and myself) have not decided on who is going to do = our digital stops for the Celestial division and the pedal extensions yet. We have talked to three companies, including Musicom, but as of yet, we = have not made a decision as to who we will use. Francesco and I have had long talks about the pros and cons of these companies, and right now they are = in negotiations with a company about doing the stops for us. It's out of my = hands at this point, because there is a financial aspect to the decision as well as = an artistic one. I have given my input on the artistic end they know my preferences and Francesco and I have come to a definite agreement on the = artistic matters regarding the digital stops. He knows that I don't want the = company to be slighted financially, either. I want us both to win. Maybe I'm naieve, = but that's how I feel.   As to the voicing on the loaner Rodgers we had, it was voiced by Dan = Miller, after a couple of people tried to experiment with the Rodgers voicing software. I was there when Dan voiced the organ, so I saw Dan do his = magic with the software and heard him transform what went from being a screechy, thin = organ to a full, rich "Skinner-esque" type sound. For what it was, the organ = sounded pretty good, but my point is that people in my congregation can tell the difference because of how the organ moves them. They got a kick out of = all the gizmos and gadgets on the organ, like the different voices "Choir Ooh", = "Choir Aah", etc., and especially the "Alleluia Amen" where a male choir chants. = I had some of our choir members falling over laughing when I showed them that!   Anyway, I have had first hand confirmation that the average, ordinary pew-sitter can tell the difference. If you had asked me two months ago, I = would have told you that no one in the pew would have known the difference, but I = sure know differently now!   Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC  
(back) Subject: Re: Concert Announcement From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:04:59 -0400   At 11:43 AM 2004-05-26 -0600, you wrote: >I will be performing on the Davis Concert Organ > >(http://www.winspearcentre.com/content.asp?catid=3D47&rootid=3D2) > >in concert with the Cosmopolitan Music Society > >Francis Winspear Centre for Music >Edmonton, Alberta, Canada > >Sunday, June 6th >7:30-9:30 p.m. > >Featured works: > >The Phantom of the Opera (excerpt) >Les Miserables (excerpts)   Bruce,   Have A LOT OF FUN that night!   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Re: An interesting experience...... From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:19:38 -0400   Noel, > > NOW I'M REALLY CONFUSED! > > Are you saying that if you were in this dealer's position, you would do > a less than stellar job. Or are you saying that Rodgers is the equal of =   > a fine pipe organ? Or are you saying that this dealer somehow is not > faithful to the mother-corp (Rodgers)? Somehow I get the feeling that > your favorite organ company has been slighted.   I said what I said what I said...   If the organ at Monty's church is of such a design and in such a condition that it requires replacment, a Rodgers should definitely sounded better than it, and people should have come forward and mentioned that...instead they wanted their old pipe back? Monty's a straight-shooter and I believe what he said, don't you? > > Also, about the roll your own organs such as Hauptwerk   Um, I do not have anything to do with Hauptwerk. One of my associates has it, for a variety of reasons beyond its low cost in comparison tp non-virtual organs.   - I know they are > selling somewhere between 10 and 20 registered versions per month.   See you know more about Hauptwerk than I do! I > would suggest that to the industry that means at least 5 to 10 lost > sales per month. That is significant.   But that assumes that the purchasers would each have spent each more than $10,000 for a digital instead of a couple of thousand for a Hauptwerk. That's a rather expensive supposition. It's like the guy who was questioned about how he got away with spending so much money restoring an old car on the radio last Saturday. He walked to the door into the house, closed it quietly and said softly, "I have a Post Office Box."   noel joens www.frogmusic.com    
(back) Subject: Re: An Interesting Experience From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:22:17 -0400   Monty,   Thank you for correcting my misconceptions. As I said, you are a straight-shooter.   I'm done.   noel jones