PipeChat Digest #4866 - Monday, November 1, 2004
Re: a serious discussion
  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>
Buddites (was, horses and buggies)
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Hammond models
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Air Force Academy Chapel, Colorado Springs
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
small organs and their repertoire
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Sad Obit.
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
this week's mp3
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
RE:Organ's Accents (Was  a serious discussion) and maybe still is!
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Buddites (was, horses and buggies)
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>

(back) Subject: Re: a serious discussion From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:15:43 -0500   nope -- no difference tonally Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOUploads/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joshwwhite@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:47 PM Subject: Re: a serious discussion     This is a strange question, but is a B-3 tonally different from a B-2, = C-3 or an Rt-3, or any other tonewheel Hammonds of that period? = Excluding of course, the addition of percussions, key clicks, vibrato = and the other variables.... Josh           In a message dated 10/31/2004 10:32:03 PM Central Standard Time, = quilisma@cox.net writes: I hasten to add that I do not include Hammonds in that ... they are = ....=20 what? ... electro-mechanical synthesizers? ... and DO have a LARGE = body=20 of literature which can ONLY be played on a Hammond, specifically a = B-3=20 with a Leslie speaker. And Hammond PURISTS ... gospel, jazz, rock=20 artists ... are having NONE of digital knock-offs (chuckle). It was=20 amusing at the trade shows to listen to the Hammond people = demonstrate=20 how they'd digitally reproduced the characteristic "key-pop" of a = B-3=20 ... shades of early electronic attempts to reproduce "chiff" (grin).    
(back) Subject: Buddites (was, horses and buggies) From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:27:00 -0700   "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> said,   =3D-> I wish all you Buddites continued happiness with your constricted instruments and repertoire.... Yearn all you want for a kinder, gentler, simpler life and monochromaticism and one-dimensionality. Most American churchgoers don't want it and neither do I. <-=3D     Honestly, I simply cannot comprehend this peculiar obsession for tiny organs with limited resources, that are completely stripped of any accessories whatsoever other than keys and stop knobs, and that you can't do anything with - other than "tinkle-tinkle-tinkle."   There's something verrrry Freudian about it, one suspects.......   ~ C      
(back) Subject: Hammond models From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:35:58 -0600   Josh asked about Hammond models. The B-3 and C-3 are identical except for the cabinet.....the C stands for church, and it has a full cabinet unlike the B-3 which stands on legs. The A-100 series is functionally identical except it has an internal amplifier and speakers. All of these must be hooked up to a Leslie (NOT a Hammond product, btw) for that classic sound.   The RT-3 is a B-3 in a full cabinet with a 32-note AGO pedalboard instead = of a flat 25 note pedalboard. It also adds a pedal solo voice unit at = various pitches. There is a D-something model which is an RT-3 with internal speakers.   Earlier models of these were B-2, C-2, and RT-2. These models did not = have the "harmonic decay" and "percussion" switches (IIRC) of the later models.....they CAN be added now as aftermarket items made by Trek. I forget the exact distinctions, but the generation before that, the vibrato could only be used on BOTH great and swell instead of either or both.   Though some purists deny it, ALL of them are absolutely identical in = design except for the differences mentioned. Changes in parts over time can make some differences in sounds and B-3's which are the hot market items are famous for different units having different sounds.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Air Force Academy Chapel, Colorado Springs From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:23:19 -0700   I did a "Google" for this and came up with a tremendous amount of information, of course.   This page has some beautiful photos of the very dramatic, "Populuxe-Post-Atomic-Age" exterior and interior of the chapel, including the organ:   http://www.allchurchsound.com/ACS/visited/coairforcechapel/   (There's lots of other interesting pages on that site, as well.)   And this page has a very interesting (and blunt) "layperson's" description of the chapel and its stained glass:   http://www.igougo.com/planning/journalEntryFreeForm.asp?EntryID=3D1623      
(back) Subject: small organs and their repertoire From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:34:29 -0800   I have posted lists of music for small organs several times here ... I'm sure they're in the archives ... they range from renaissance to modern. The lists are quite large and comprehensive.   People who play small organs don't *of necessity* recycle the same 50 "boring" pieces year after year. There are thousands of worthy organ pieces from all periods that can be played on small organs. The limitation is the imagination and creativity of the ORGANIST, not the ORGAN or the LITERATURE.   Small organs are not necessarily "tinker-toys" ... many fine small 19th century organs have full-voiced 8' Open Diapasons on both manuals, and large-scale Pedal Bourdons, or even (in the case of one organ I used to take care of) a 16' Open WOOD as the only 16' Pedal stop ... a softer (divided) Bourdon could be coupled from the Great, but the Open Wood fit under just about anything.   As to learning new music, I was still practicing and learning new pieces up until the day I had to retire. I knew I was gradually losing the use of my legs, so I started on the Duets from Clavieruebung III (which I'd never gotten around to) and started bringing back the duets in the Art of Fugue, which I hadn't played in awhile, all of which can be played very effectively on a small organ. I was also relearning the Fugue in the Langlais harmonium book and several of the Tournemire Postludes Libres. Not huge pieces, to be sure, but I've never been a recitalist, and they were entirely appropriate to a liturgical church with a tight Mass schedule that allowed for five-minute preludes and postludes at MOST.   For the record, I DID learn most of the big repertoire and played it when I was younger, and ABLE to play it. The fact that I no longer COULD for the last five years of my active career didn't mean that my congregation was subjected to the same 50 "boring" organ pieces year in and year out. If anything, I had to be MORE creative in my choice of organ music.   A friend of mine was over here this afternoon, helping with the last of the packing and moving ... he plays in a Christian Science church with a nice 7-rank unit organ from the teens ... he has access to a variety of instruments ... violin, oboe, french horn, english horn, trumpet, 'cello .... so he often uses instruments in various combinations. I downloaded and printed several hundred pages of music for him, as well as some of my own arrangements for two "C" instruments and organ. The instruments give him the added colors he needs to supplement the sound of the organ and broaden his repertoire, and his congregation is quite thrilled with the results.   He uses the organ much as the Home Church Tannenberg was used; that instrument, one of the treasures of American organ-building, would be deemed "inadequate" in the view of some on this list.   Cheers,   Bud              
(back) Subject: Sad Obit. From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:39:05 -0000   Myself and my friends have been feeling quite shocked all through the = weekend by the announcement of the sudden and unexpected death of John = Peel, veteran BBC DJ and broadcaster.   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3955369.stm   The man had the truly unique talent of spotting a new wave, recognising = the best exponents, giving them the vital oxygen of publicity, and then = having the responsible attitude of letting them go their own way - while = he was off finding what was to happen next.   His irrepressible and individual tones made him sound as though he was = 'in-the-room' with you, and his somewhat stumbling delivery endeared him = to your heart, whether you were in the next county or whether you were a = world away (thanks to the BBC World Service).   You were well toasted at our wake for you, John; and you will be sorely = missed. We all feel that we have lost a close personal friend.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman with a hole in his life - and who enjoyed your = company late '60's to mid '70's]
(back) Subject: this week's mp3 From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:26:53 -0800   Hello, Folks -   This week's mp3 is Cl=E9ment Loret's Allegro Maestoso - No. 1 from his 12 Pieces   http://www.blackiris.com/orwig/loret/Loret_Allegro_Maestoso_12_pieces_no._1= .mp3   Enjoy!   -Jonathan  
(back) Subject: RE:Organ's Accents (Was a serious discussion) and maybe still is! From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:33:06 -0000   This phrase caught my eye. I'd never really thought about organs having "accents" before, but I think Bud is quite right. I think he'd be quite at home here at Coventry Cathedral, because I think that's an English organ with a French accent! I'll put the spec at the bottom of this, so you can see what I mean. The reeds in particular have a French twang! The building is live - and I mean LIVE!!! Around 5 seconds = of reverberation. (I measured it the other day when someone was practicing whilst I was in there.) Hopeless for orchestral concerts which they have occasionally, but superb for organ music!   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Liquescent [SNIP!]   My particular subjective preference is for a French organ with an English accent (or vice versa, depending on the mixture composition and reed voicing called for by the particular building), and, yes, I would have the kind of Swell described by Schweitzer. [SNIP!]   SPECIFICATION OF COVENTRY CATHEDRAL ORGAN HARRISON & HARRISON   Console: Detached Console in choir stalls   Swell to Great Swell to Choir Swell to Pedal Swell Octave Swell Suboctave Swell Unison off Choir to Great Choir to Pedal Great to Pedal Solo Octave Solo Unison Off Solo Sub Octave Solo to Pedal Solo to Great Solo to Swell Solo to Choir   Key action Stop action Compass low Compass high Notes Enclosed Pedal EP EP C g1 32 N Choir EP EP C c4 61 N Great EP EP C c4 61 N Swell EP EP C c4 61 Y Solo EP EP C c4 61 Y   Department Stop name Pitch Pedal 1 Sub Bourdon 32 20 from Great Bourdon 16' 2 Open Diapason 16 3 Open Metal 16 N side 4 Diapason 16 Great 5 Sub Bass 16 N side 6 Dulciana 16 N side 7 Principal 8 8 Spitz Flute 8 N side 9 Twelfth 5 1/3 10 Fifteenth 4 11 Rohr Flute 4 N side 12 Open Flute 2 N side 13 Mixture IV 14 Bombardon 32 15 Ophicleide 16 16 Fagotto 16 Swell 17 Posaune 8 18 Basson 8 19 Schalmei 4 20 Kornet 2   Department Stop name Pitch Choir 21 Claribel Flute 16 N side 22 Diapason 8 S side 23 Gedackt 8 N side 24 Harmonic Flute 8 N side 25 Dulciana 8 N side 26 Principal 4 S side 27 Rohr Flute 4 N side 28 Nazard 2 2/3 N side 29 Fifteenth 2 S side 30 Block Flute 2 added, N side 31 Tierce 1 3/5 N side 32 Larigot 1 1/3 N side 33 Mixture IV S side, LCa 5rk 34 Cromorne 8 N side   Department Stop name Pitch Great 35 Double Diapason 16 36 Bourdon 16 37 Open Diapason I 8 38 Open Diapason II 8 39 Stopped Diapason 8 40 Spitz Flute 8 41 Octave 4 42 Gemshorn 4 43 Octave Quint 2 2/3 44 Super Octave 2 45 Mixture IV 46 Cornet II-V see note 47 Double Trumpet 16 48 Trumpet 8 49 Clarion 4   Department Stop name Pitch Swell 50 Quintaton 16 51 Hohl Flute 8 52 Viola 8 53 Celeste 8 54 Principal 4 55 Spitz Flute 4 56 Fifteenth 2 57 Sesquialtra II 58 Mixture IV 59 Contra Fagotto 16 60 Trumpet 8 61 Oboe 8 62 Clarion 4 63 Tremulant   Department Stop name Pitch Solo 64 Diapason 8 65 Rohr Flute 8 66 Viol 8 67 Viol Celeste 8 68 Octave 4 69 Open Flute 4 70 Wald Flute 2 71 Sifflote 1 72 Mixture IV 73 Corno di Bassetto 16 transposed from 8'   74 Tremulant 75 Orchestral Trumpet 8 Unenclosed, 2000 revoiced   76 Orchestral Clarion 4 Unenclosed, 2000 revoiced     Blowing: Electric Bellows: Flues; 3 1/2"-5", Reeds; 5"-12", Action; 9"-12"   8 thumb pistons to each manual with 8 channels Cancel piston to each manual Thumb pistons for So-Pd, So-Sw, Sw-Pd, So-Gt, Sw-Gt, Ch-Gt, Gt-Pd, So-Ch, Sw-Ch, Ch-Pd. 8, 8 composition pedals 12 general pistons over the top manual with 64 different channels Thumb and Toe pedals for Gt-Pd, Sw-Gt 2 general pedals for couplers Drawstop to allow Swell toe pistons to become 8 general pistons Toe piston for 32ft Bombardon Thumb piston for 32ft Sub Bourdon General Cancel Piston 'Corno 8ft' Note. Great Cornet composition is 12.17 from C-B, 12.15.17 from TC-b and from c1; A Vox Humana was planned in the original specification but a Sifflote was installed instead    
(back) Subject: Re: Buddites (was, horses and buggies) From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 03:56:29 EST     In a message dated 10/31/04 11:27:19 PM, crl@137.com writes:     > Honestly, I simply cannot comprehend this peculiar obsession > for tiny organs with limited resources, that are completely > stripped of any accessories whatsoever other than keys and > stop knobs, and that you can't do anything with - other than > "tinkle-tinkle-tinkle." > > There's something v >   So you are implying what organists 100 years ago did nothing but "tinkle tinkle"? Vierne and his colleagues weren't very good--you're right--and = those darn Cavaille-Colls--just terrible-worse than Schnitgers if you ask me-how = did they ever manage? Do you call large scale open diapasons that sing, = colorful and full flutes, reeds, and HUGE pedal bourdons toys?? The fact is-that those ranks sound SO good-and the stop knobs, keys and pedals feel so = good, that you don't need memory levels or pistons. I think this whole conversation started because some people-myself = included- feel that the toys are nice to have- -but when console accessories take priority over tonal design and voicing etc...you're in BIG trouble.-this = is something I have seen in MANY new organs...oh-and one more opinion-how = many of you have seen organ consoles RUINED by having ugly looking digital read outs = all over them--YUCK!!!!! All this nice woodwork--then there is a thing that looks =   like an alarm clock from 1985--I will never understand....where is the = taste and class...   Just my opinion-cheerfully gfc     Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net