PipeChat Digest #4867 - Monday, November 1, 2004
 
Re: Buddites (was, horses and buggies)
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: horses and buggies
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
horses and buggies - and accoustical changes
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: Second to none?
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Re: Music today
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Historic Impotence
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Buddites (was, horses and buggies)
  by "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Horses and buggies, whatever
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: it finally happened...
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Horses and buggies, whatever
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: Music today
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Vierne...
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Yr. Humble Servant <g>
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Music today
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Horses and buggies, whatever
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Key wedges
  by "Jonathan Humbert" <jhumbert@ptd.net>
Re: Confused
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Key wedges
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Being reasonable: a question of degree
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Music today
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
moving day
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Reformation and Reconciliation Sunday
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Buddites (was, horses and buggies) From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:16:27 +0800   I recently attended a recital in a chapel which has a glorious modern two manual organ of 23 stops. There are no accessories of any kind. The recitalist had two people pulling stops for him. It takes THREE people to play an organ??? The preference of this builder of having (his words) "uncluttered consoles" beats me. Bob Elms .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> To: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>; "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Buddites (was, horses and buggies)     > "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> said, > > =3D-> I wish all you Buddites continued happiness with your constricted > instruments and repertoire.... Yearn all you want for a kinder, = gentler, > simpler life and monochromaticism and one-dimensionality. Most American > churchgoers don't want it and neither do I. <-=3D > > > Honestly, I simply cannot comprehend this peculiar obsession for tiny > organs with limited resources, that are completely stripped of any > accessories whatsoever other than keys and stop knobs,    
(back) Subject: Re: horses and buggies From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 05:45:45 -0600   Recycle 50 or so pieces? Boring? Limited? Uninteresting? Come on!!! = 50 Composers covering 5 Centuries of literature perhaps, but 50 pieces? You can't be serious! Thanks for the advice Bob, but you're WAY off the mark here .... trust me, I've no problems with making REAL music on the "King = of Instruments" ... of any size, or period. Neither does Bud Clark, I'm = sure. It's called The Art of Organ Playing. A subject some of us know a little about.   Has it ever occurred to you that those you seem to resent so much because they speak with authority just might have a clue what they're talking = about? Do you know them personally? Do you know their experience and education? Most likely not. Here's a clue: Not all, but certainly many are highly educated Conservatory trained musicians. Some are Educators, some are Concert Artists, some are Organ Scholars. All, including you deserve respect. There is much we can learn from one another here. Downloading messages from this list is sometimes irritating, but most often enlightening. Sometimes even inspiring. Just not today ...   Cheers,   Timothy Grenz   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: Re: horses and buggies     > No, of course I don't play or want junk in my church. It's remarkable = how > we > can twist things that people write. I play very good literature all the > time > and learn and play more literature than perhaps anyone I know. I'm just > tired of people who play boring, uninteresting organ music, recycle the > same > 50 or so pieces they ever learned, and play this stuff on instruments = with > limited resources as if this were the cat's meow. I wish that they might > really find what's out there, expand their horizons, and realize how = best > to > make this music come alive on the King of Instruments instead of on a > tinker toy. I played a tinker toy (put together by Holtkamp) for close = to > 5 > years at one point and, sure, I can marvel at what one can do under the > circumstances, but I thanked God for opportunities to practice and > recitalize elsewhere. I did my time and know full well that I want = variety > to bring a full perspective of fine music to the church and recital hall =   > and > thereby to keep people interested in the organ and to make new converts. > > Robert Lind      
(back) Subject: horses and buggies - and accoustical changes From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:55:53 EST   I might add, however:   GO TO THE ROOM.   What does it require? Has carpeting been added? Has padding been added? Have either wall paper, accoustical tile or many large banners been added/taken from the sanctuary?   Musically,   Stan Krider     In a message dated 10/31/2004 9:53:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, quilisma@cox.net writes: Once again, I can only plead:   GO TO THE LITURGY.   What does IT require?   GO TO THE ORGAN LITERATURE.   What does IT require?   At MOST, a three-manual organ of perhaps 30-50 stops.   MOST of the organ literature required in CHURCH can be played on much = LESS.   We wrongly connect number of stops with VOLUME.  
(back) Subject: Re: Second to none? From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:01:28 -0600   We have a 2nd Pres in St. Louis James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Creator of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups (314) 608-4137 WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 BECOME WHAT YOU BELIEVE! pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RMaryman@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: Re: Second to none?     In a message dated 10/31/2004 5:24:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, = Wuxuzusu@aol.com writes: And why are there apparently no "Second <whatever>" churches? At least I can't remember ever receiving details of an organ in a chuch so named. Does this mean that, once there is a First Church in a place, the next one to be built has to be called something else so that its parishioners don't feel inferior, as they presumably would were it called "Second..."? Here in Staunton (VA), We have a First, Second and Third Presbyterian = church(es). First and Second Presby. are even on the SAME street! - just = at opposite ends of town, more or less... andboth First and Second have = pipe organs in them...First has a much-rebuild and altered Pilcher, and = Second has an un-altered Moller. =20   Rick in VA
(back) Subject: Re: Music today From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:04:18 EST   >Sunday Octber 31, 2004 > Celebrating the Ministry of Martin Luther > Prelude > Prelude and Fugue in E Minor S. 533 JS Bach > Processional Hymn > A Mighty Fortress is Our God Ein Feste Burg > interlude arr. Kleintop-Owens > Choral Anthem Teach Me O Lord T. Atwood > Sermon Hymn Come Ye Sinners, Poor an Needy Arise > Offertory Meditation Berceuse L. Vierne > Offertory response Blest Thou, the Gifts > Prayer Response Sevenfold Amen J. Stainer > Closing Hymn (can't remember it..it was new, to me, and had the word >"men" in it too many times for the ladies of the church and our liking) > Benediction Response The Benediction of Aaron ES Lorenz > Postlude Ein Feste Burg (from 30 Short Chorale Preludes) M. Reger > FWIW > TDH > From Desiree' > T. Desiree' Hines Desi-- This is obviously not from St. Turibius. You didn't list what church = this is. Although Martin Luther was an Augustinian priest, I doubt the = priests at St. Turibius would really be celebrating his ministry. Tell us about = your new job--since obviously you have to have one. Where is it? What kind = of organ? What kind of choir program? Etc... Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Historic Impotence From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:19:01 EST   I enjoyed Charlie's post about "historic impotence," as Virgil called it. = Yes, we can take historic things waaaay too far, however it is important = to know how and why they were done. It is also important to know how to = make music on organs without shades, pistons and flat pedal boards on the off = chance that one will be faced with one--God knows there are many of them out = there. I don't know why a middle-America Protestant church would get one, but = they do. Anyway, I would not want to have to play one every week, but when = I'm faced with one, I can make music on it--beautiful music, in fact. I've = seen people just stumped when they don't have a plethora of pistons, memory = levels, celestes, and swell boxes. I've also seen "purists" stumped when they = are faced with a 1916 Pilcher with nothing higher than a 4' Flute d'Amour. = There is a place of moderation, where someone knows how to use both types of instruments. We can have our preferences, BUT we should know how to use = both types of instruments to their best capabilities. Yes, I love to play big = monster EP organs (does that comes as a surprise to anyone????? LOL) but I'm just = as home on early American trackers, such as Johnsons and Hooks and = Hutchings. I prefer them to some of the early 20th century EP tubs that were built. = If I had my choice of a 4 rank unit organ or a small 5 or 6 rank early = American tracker--(GASP)--I'd take the tracker. (members of the list faint) Fast forward to modern times...give me a well voiced organ with gadgets, gizmos, etc., I'm going to pick the modern organ, BUT, I still do a lot of = hand registering. The bottom line is, though, that I CAN and DO make music on =   whatever instrument is placed before me. That is my role as a musician. = I don't have the attitude that many organists do--"I can't play that, it's = not a " (insert brand here)" . I'm here to make music, pure and simple...I've = played fantastic concert organs and I've played hideous instruments...my job was = to make them sound their best. Sometimes it was easy and other times it was = a chore. The result was to make music and make the congregation/audience happy. A good musician can do it. Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Buddites (was, horses and buggies) From: "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:24:50 -0600   Greg and others,=20   You bring up Schnitger......ah. Those sounds are amazing, and playing = them is even greater. Norden and Cappel are excellent organs, and you = would swear there was a swell box on it, and one would think you tire of = Bach and Buxtehude and Tunder after practicing 3-4 hours on one, but no. = We would sit and listen to one person practice and play and then switch = seats. I will catch my roommates listening to my CD marveling that the = organ that I was playing is 300-400 years old. =20   Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Horses and buggies, whatever From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:04:41 -0600   Guys (and since I am female, I can use it generically), the full moon is on the wane. Tensions are high - my headaches and tense shoulders get no relief right now, from work, from organ practice, from the home front, from the projects I should be working on and cannot provide concentration for. Tomorrow is a big day, probably for my household more than most of yours. I will not bore you with the explanation - some of you know. I for one am scared, and cannot take my friends fighting right at this moment.   Let's all take deep breaths, pour a drink (unless you are a mean drunk, then I'll pass the soda), and say a prayer.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: it finally happened... From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:34:09 -0500   Re applause in church: In our church, the organ console is in the rear balcony, so I'm pretty much out of sight when I play. But we have a grand piano down front, very visible. Just about whenever we sing an anthem with the piano, which is about a third of the time, and whenever a soloist sings and is accompanied on the piano, which is about two-thirds of the time, the congregation applauds. They even began to applaud yesterday after a hymn, which the choir led them in singing from behind the piano, which I played for the hymn. The reason is that I wrote the hymn. I figure they would have continued to applaud, but the service went on with the liturgy, as well it should have. It's almost a Pavlovian response. When they can see the "performers" they will inevitably applaud. I'm grateful for their kind expression of appreciation, but at the same time uneasy about the "entertainment" aspect of the thing. On the other hand, since they = applaud so regurlarly, it has become a natural part of the Sunday service, so it's perhaps not out of place, in this church's particular context.   Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu            
(back) Subject: Re: Horses and buggies, whatever From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:50:12 -0600   Words of Wisdom. Make mine a JD neat :)   Thank You Glenda   Cheers (and bottoms up),   Tim   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:04 AM Subject: Horses and buggies, whatever     > Guys (and since I am female, I can use it generically), the full moon is > on the wane. Tensions are high - my headaches and tense shoulders get > no relief right now, from work, from organ practice, from the home > front, from the projects I should be working on and cannot provide > concentration for. Tomorrow is a big day, probably for my household > more than most of yours. I will not bore you with the explanation - > some of you know. I for one am scared, and cannot take my friends > fighting right at this moment. > > Let's all take deep breaths, pour a drink (unless you are a mean drunk, > then I'll pass the soda), and say a prayer. > > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Music today From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 06:06:53 -0800       RMB10@aol.com wrote: (snip)   >> Offertory Meditation Berceuse L. Vierne   Only being on my first pot of coffee, I read that as:   "BECAUSE" - L. Vierne   and thought, "Gee! I don't know THAT setting!" (chuckle)   Cheers,   Bud, not awake yet      
(back) Subject: Vierne... From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:13:03 -0800 (PST)     In addition to Berceuse, I myself happen to like Vierne's Lied...   And that's no lie...   Best wishes to all,     Morton Belcher fellow list member...   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   --- Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > > > RMB10@aol.com wrote: > (snip) > > >> Offertory Meditation Berceuse L. Vierne > > Only being on my first pot of coffee, I read that > as: > > "BECAUSE" - L. Vierne > > and thought, "Gee! I don't know THAT setting!" > (chuckle) > > Cheers, > > Bud, not awake yet > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Yr. Humble Servant <g> From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 06:19:48 -0800   I'm quite complimented, actually, to have added at least three words to the musical lexicon:   Buddite, adj. (simple organs) Budesque, adj. (fauxbourdons) Codex Budensis, noun (chant transcriptions)   Cheers,   Bud          
(back) Subject: Re: Music today From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:15:53 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:06 AM Subject: Re: Music today     > > > RMB10@aol.com wrote: > (snip) > > >> Offertory Meditation Berceuse L. Vierne > > Only being on my first pot of coffee, I read that as: > > "BECAUSE" - L. Vierne   This reminds me of a wedding report I once saw that commented "At the end = of the service the organist played Bach's Wider Toccata." Wider still and wider ...   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Horses and buggies, whatever From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:26:29 -0600   Good Morning, Glenda, et al:: You wrote: > Let's all take deep breaths, pour a drink (unless you > are a mean drunk, then I'll pass the soda), and say > a prayer. In the opening solo of Messiah, Handel has the tenor singing: "Comfort ye. Comfort ye, my people." So, Glenda, we can invoke this as a prayer for you today. Then, as "every valley shall be exaulted, and every hill made low," we will eventually find something else to grind and smooth in our discussions, some of which cannot be resolved without admitting that there is something "right" about what everyone posting on this subject has said. Whoever said that "the Devil is in the details" must be right about this subject. What can or can't be played on whatever kind of organ is usually resolved by the capability of the organist at the console. I can't play whatever on any console, so I won't criticize those who have been forthright in whatever thay believe is a proper expression on whatever instrument. We put in an imitation organ recently. Last week we had a dedication on this little beast (my term of affection for the organs I have brought into singing status). This is a II/38 digital imitation and it hums along quite nicely. Ann Sommer was the organist. Prelude -- three tunes (with live people, too) Tuba Tune in D Major by C. S. Lang All People That on Earth Do Dwell by Pachelbel LBW245 A Mighty Fortress by Pachelbel LBW229 Call to Worship by Choir Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God Opening Hymn Rock of Ages LBW327 Prayer and Reading of Psalm 150 Organ Solos Hymn to Joy by Michael Burkhardt LBW551 Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, by Sebastian Bach LBW219 Organ Dedication (led by Pastor) Hymn by Choir and Congregation Beautiful Savior LBW518 Organ Solos Now Thank We All Our God by Michael Burkhardt LBW534 Let All Things Now Living by David Cherwien LBW557 God of Grace by Paul Manz LBW415 Closing Prayer and Benediction by Pastor Closing Organ Solos This Is My Father's World LBW554 Toccata on Prise God, from Whom All Belssings Flow by Michael Burkhardt I have heard these pieces rendered on many different organs, pipe and imitation, and this was a very well received program by the people of this little Lutheran Church. Among the masses, there are about 80 percent of the people who appreciate the music, regardless of what it was played on or who played it. This church is one of those. Gotta go. Work to do. Appreciatively, F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs ..    
(back) Subject: Key wedges From: "Jonathan Humbert" <jhumbert@ptd.net> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:29:24 -0500   Dear Esteemed Colleagues,   One of the pieces that I'm playing for our December Holiday-music concert requires the use of 2 key wedges. My first question is this, where do I find and buy these said wedges? Not knowing exactly how these wedges work (I've been using folded-up pieces of paper to practice), my other concern is, do they allow the playing of a note immediately adjacent to one of the wedges? In other words, the upper wedge is on a B and at 2 points in the music I must play the C right beside it. Incidentally, the piece is Il Est N=E9 from Dale Woods' Christmas Pipings book. Any ideas and suggestions would be gratefully accepted. Thanks in advance, everyone!   Regards, Jonathan Humbert      
(back) Subject: Re: Confused From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:36:28 -0500   On 10/31/04 11:36 PM, "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> wrote:   > Anyway, sorry for the confusion. You are free to wander about the list > without further concern.   Bob:   Thanks very much. I'm glad, then, that the "old" you (whose posts you = KNOW I've enjoyed consistently) is still with us! The world needs not FEWER Swedes, but MORE!   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Key wedges From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:03:05 -0500   Typically, key-wedges can be found in abundance under most pedal boards, known otherwise by scribes as "pencils". They can be customized to not interfere with fingering by use of a "pencil sharpener". They can be found in most church offices. Note: Break the pointy graphite tip off before inserting to prevent the possibility of a cipher.   Pencils belong to no-one so therefore they are without cost, provided they've been set-free of the stationary retailer.   Be on the lookout for other goodies and coins to be found under the pedal board while searching for your wedges.   All the best, AjMead   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Jonathan Humbert Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 9:29 AM To: Pipechat@Pipechat. Org Subject: Key wedges     Dear Esteemed Colleagues,   One of the pieces that I'm playing for our December Holiday-music concert requires the use of 2 key wedges. My first question is this, where do I find and buy these said wedges? Not knowing exactly how these wedges work (I've been using folded-up pieces of paper to practice), my other concern is, do they allow the playing of a note immediately adjacent to one of the wedges? In other words, the upper wedge is on a B and at 2 points in the music I must play the C right beside it. Incidentally, the piece is Il Est N=E9 from Dale Woods' Christmas Pipings book. Any ideas and suggestions would be gratefully accepted. Thanks in advance, everyone!   Regards, Jonathan Humbert       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Being reasonable: a question of degree From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:20:13 EST   Dearest PipeChatters: Why is it necessary to manipulate and distort an issue, reconfiguring somebody's ideas and altering their words just to present one side or the = other as "extremists"? Stop reading selectively and stop attributing extreme ideologies to = those who do not propagate them. That has led to some pretty horrible things throughout human history. On 29 October 2004, I wrote: "Many organs ARE rebuilt and enlarged from time to time. Evolved instruments are a tradition, and one might argue that they are a natural = outgrowth of the evolution of musical culture. Yet the ones we most revere are just = that: they are evolved, retaining and respecting the best of what was there, and =   building upon that foundation. "Another facet of the successfully evolved organ is that size is not = the objective -- quality is. Whenever I have seen an organ aggrandized to = excess, quality almost always suffers. Such organs simply grow, they do not = DEVELOP." There is no way that any thinking adult can misinterpret that to mean that I insist that all pipe organs remain untouched or left in a = technologically limited or primitive state. It is a plea to take such steps thoughtfully, respectfully, with purpose, and in proportion to the true issues = confronted by the situation.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/   ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Music today From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:31:17 EST   Keith and I arranged the Toccata for piano and organ to emphasize the = strong parts and played it for church last night. It was received very well. I seldom "open" the organ up, but this time I did. We are having fun with = arranging music for one organ, 4 hands, and organ and piano duets. Since Keith will = be reading this I better not write any more. Lee  
(back) Subject: moving day From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:03:40 -0800   Today is moving day; I may be off-line for a day or two, depending on how quickly we get things moved and set up, and whether or not the cable is turned on in the new place.   The e-mail address will stay the same.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Reformation and Reconciliation Sunday From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:00:24 EST   Alan, St. Luke's is a very special church - there is none like it = anywhere. The preacher is great. It almost makes us want to move to NY. At least = we have a church away from home when we are there. Lee