PipeChat Digest #4887 - Monday, November 8, 2004
 
Re: US copyright laws
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Norwegian harmonium
  by "firman1" <firman1@prodigy.net>
RE: Norwegian harmonium
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Virgil Fox Orchestral Recordings
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
RE: Norwegian harmonium
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: Norwegian harmonium
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music
  by "Ray Kimber" <ray@kimber.com>
harmoniums
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
John Curwen's notation  system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Re: Small Organs...without shades.
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: John Curwen's notation  system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Virgil Fox Orchestral Recordings
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Glenda's statement
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: John Curwen's notation  system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Maryland State Boychoir Saturday in Lancaster PA
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Re: John Curwen's notation  system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: US copyright laws From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:10:08 -0600   Jim McFarland wrote, in part   > Warner Chappell (a Warner Communications division), the largest music > publisher in the world, purchased Birch Tree Ltd. in late 1998 for a > reported sale price of $25 million; the company then became > Summy-Birchard Music, now a part of the giant AOL Time Warner media > conglomerate.   and I would simply note that more recently (about a year ago, IIRC), the music publishing arm, was separated from Time Warner, into Warner Music.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: Norwegian harmonium From: "firman1" <firman1@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:54:03 -0600   Harmoniums DO have a reservoir for the pressurized wind. There is a stop = on most every harmonium labeled Expression that closes the reservoir supply = and the wind is directly supplied to the reed chest via the feeder-pedals. It takes a bit of practice to play this way, but after a while you can play from the ultimate pianissimo to the loudest fortissimo easily. An interesting thing about my 2 manual Christophe et Etienne is that while playing on the great, you can feel the air blowing up through the keys. = The sound also. A neat addition is found on my single manual C & E: the Percussion stop. A diminutive piano action, with very tiny hammers, strikes the underneath of the reeds as you depress the key and commences it to vibrate immediately. = It produces a very interesting sound indeed! (Even with no wind!) Berley A. Firmin II      
(back) Subject: RE: Norwegian harmonium From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:31:07 +1300     Will Light wrote: > And I believe I'm right in saying that American reed organs (known here = in > the UK simply as American Organs) have a reservoir for the wind- or = rather > vacuum supply whereas Harmoniums (Harmonia?)   A harmonium is ALWAYS pressure-driven, while an American organ is ALWAYS suction-driven. We all know that "harmonium" is often popularly used to denote any kind of reed organ, but that is wrong.   >have no reservoir and therefore > only play when one pedal is moving downwards. They need much more skill = in > pumping, because if one foot reaches the bottom before the other has started > downwards the sound stops- giving a rather halting wheezy rendition of = the > music!   This is not so. If you pedal well on an American organ, you will create a vacuum (that's the whole purpose of the pedals - to create a vacuum to = draw air down through the reeds) and you can keep playing for a few seconds without the thing running out of sound. It doesn't work as well as the reservoir does on a harmonium, but it DOES work.   Ross (owner of both Christophe harmonium and Estey America organ)    
(back) Subject: Re: Virgil Fox Orchestral Recordings From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:36:35 -0800   >Does anyone know which organs were used for these Virgil Fox recordings? > >I am not normally a pipe organ purist but I gave a listen to "Heavy >Organ" recently and had forgotten just how bad that touring organ >really sounded. I don't think that I thought so at the time I first >purchased is decades ago but the advances in digital organs really >show in comparison to this recording. I wouldn't want to waste my >money on this new CD if it is with that same organ used on "Heavy >Organ".   I enjoy it not so much for the organ's quality( or lack of), but more for its historical value , PLUS an organ concert to a FULL house full of teenage rockers; a precedent that has not been succeeded yet. ( I know I was there ;-) )   John V  
(back) Subject: RE: Norwegian harmonium From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:48:51 +0100 (CET)   --- TheShieling <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> skrev:   > A harmonium is ALWAYS pressure-driven, while an > American organ is ALWAYS > suction-driven. We all know that "harmonium" is > often popularly used to > denote any kind of reed organ, but that is wrong. The Norwegian reed organs used to be termed "salmesyklar" ("hymn bikes") back in the good old days.   Norwegian doesn't have a translation of "reed organ", which is the reason why I used the international term "harmonium". Thanks to you, from now on my organ(s) shall be called "reed organs" in English!   - Jarle http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: RE: Norwegian harmonium From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:21:56 -0000   It seems that there must have been a wide variety of designs. I remember playing Harmoniums around 50 years ago, that had no kind of reservoir at = all - as soon as you stopped pumping, the sound stopped. I think they were probably French made ones. On the other hand, we had an American Organ which, if you pumped like mad you could build up enough suction in the reservoir to play for several seconds. They used to have one at my parent's village church which had both = pumping pedals and a full pedalboard and two manuals. Even if there was nobody = to pump the handle round the side for wind, you could pump with one foot = and play the pedals with the other. Not recommended for anything other than hymns though!   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TheShieling Sent: 08 November 2004 14:31 To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: Norwegian harmonium     Will Light wrote: > And I believe I'm right in saying that American reed organs (known = here in > the UK simply as American Organs) have a reservoir for the wind- or = rather > vacuum supply whereas Harmoniums (Harmonia?)=20   A harmonium is ALWAYS pressure-driven, while an American organ is ALWAYS suction-driven. We all know that "harmonium" is often popularly used to denote any kind of reed organ, but that is wrong.   >have no reservoir and therefore > only play when one pedal is moving downwards. They need much more = skill in > pumping, because if one foot reaches the bottom before the other has started > downwards the sound stops- giving a rather halting wheezy rendition of = the > music!   This is not so. If you pedal well on an American organ, you will create = a vacuum (that's the whole purpose of the pedals - to create a vacuum to = draw air down through the reeds) and you can keep playing for a few seconds without the thing running out of sound. It doesn't work as well as the reservoir does on a harmonium, but it DOES work.   Ross (owner of both Christophe harmonium and Estey America organ)     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music From: "Ray Kimber" <ray@kimber.com> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:25:06 -0700   Hello list,     I am trying to locate a copy of this sheet music for a friend. I have = tried to locate a copy for sale without much luck, any suggestions?     Kind regards,     Ray Kimber    
(back) Subject: harmoniums From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 07:32:23 -0800   Mustels have a stop which disengages the reservoir to allow for "more expressive playing" (?), but I believe they DO have reservoirs. Can't remember the stop-name right now.   Cheers,   Bud   Will Light wrote:   > And I believe I'm right in saying that American reed organs (known here = in > the UK simply as American Organs) have a reservoir for the wind- or = rather > vacuum supply whereas Harmoniums (Harmonia?) have no reservoir and = therefore > only play when one pedal is moving downwards. They need much more skill = in > pumping, because if one foot reaches the bottom before the other has = started > downwards the sound stops- giving a rather halting wheezy rendition of = the > music! > > Will Light > Coventry UK > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Roy > Redman > Sent: 08 November 2004 01:06 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Norwegian harmonium > > Harmoniums play with pressure. American reed organs with vacuum. I = have > restored both. Quite a different instrument. > Roy Redman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 4:54 PM > Subject: Norwegian harmonium > > > >>Interesting that they were still being built that late ... or maybe not. >> >>I bought a small folding Estey reed organ new sometime in the 1950s ... >>I think they stopped making reed organs shortly thereafter. >> >>I DO remember seeing harmoniums in ITALIAN music catalogs in the 1960s, >>when I was ordering music for the Italian-language Mass at Holy Rosary >>in Cleveland. >> >>It's a shame that so many were discarded in the US ... unless they get >>rained on, they're virtually indestructible ... I used to tinker with >>them when I was in high school. My little one had rubberized cloth >>instead of leather for the bellows ... I didn't know how to work with >>leather; rubberized cloth was easy enough. I had a large one-manual >>Estey that I bought in the 1950s and sold in the 1990s; the rubberized >>cloth bellows were still in perfect condition. Of course, neither organ >>was played every Sunday for church. I don't know how well it would have >>held up under heavy use. >> >>In the old days, virtually every big old Roman Catholic church had a >>harmonium in the balcony, in addition to a pipe organ, in case of power >>failures, etc. >> >>Schantz built one interesting PIPE organ for The Church of the Gesu in >>Cleveland that had a reed organ in the console ... it played from the >>Choir manual, and the treadles folded down on either side of the >>expression pedals. I don't remember if it had the usual knee-swells or > > not. > >>Cheers, >> >>Bud >> >> >> >>Jarle Fagerheim wrote: >> >> >>>I don't know exactly when it was built -- probably in the 50's or 60's. >>>The builder is "Vestres Orgel- og Harmoniumfabrik" of Harams=F8y, = Western >>>Norway. We already have a Vestres harmonium in our house bought by my >>>grandfather in 1959, and this one is identical except for the pedals = and >>>electrical blower. Not very pretty furniture, but the sound is good >>>enough for me! When I get it installed I'll put some pictures and >>>stoplist on my homepage. Maybe even a recording... >>> >>>This pedal harmonium was originally owned by the school "Solborg >>>folkeh=F8gskole" in Stavanger, where my grandparents first met = eachother. >>>They're both alive and may be able to give some information about it. >>>The school also had a 13-stop pipe organ which was recently sold to a >>>lady whom I don't know. Its builder was Andreas Landrog of Haugesund, >>>who worked in the shops of several US builders around 1900. >>> >>>- Jarle >>>http://jarle.moo.no >>> >>>BlueeyedBear@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> >>>>can you tell us more about your new harmonium? when was it built, and >>>>by whom? what are the stops? do you have any photos of it yet? >>>> >>>>scot in spokane >>>> >>> >>>****************************************************************** >>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >>>List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >>>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >>> >>> >> >> >>****************************************************************** >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >>List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >> >> >> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:44:10 EST   Ray,   Do you mean "Triumphal March" or "Quick March"?   Bill H Boston  
(back) Subject: John Curwen's notation system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929 From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:24:27 -0500   One of the blessings of the modern age is to be able to ask questions to nice folks literally around the world and to learn from them. Let me try = to do that once again:   This coming Sunday I shall teach a Sunday School class to adults on = metrical psalmody. In the process I wish to show my copy of _Scottish Psalter and Church Hymnary_, Revised Edition, 1929. (Oxford U. Press). My copy uses John Curwen's notation system of letters with rhythmic indications printed in straight lines left-to-right across the page for sopranos, altos, = tenors, and basses, as opposed to note heads with note stems on five-line musical staves or of neums on four-line staves as in plainsong.   My question: to what extent did this ever really catch on in the English- speaking world? Can anyone detail the approximate years during which it = was common at any given place? Or is it still common anywhere?   It has a curious parallel, of course, to four-shape notation (and to a lesser degree also seven-shape notation) in the United States.   I'd be grateful to learn from anyone who can discuss Curwen's system with me, particularly if you have been in situations where it was in fairly common practice. Many thanks.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA    
(back) Subject: Re: Small Organs...without shades. From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:28:59 -0600   That is fine for most of the organ repertoire, where crescendi can be engineered by careful manipulation of the stops, coupled with flexible winding systems, without the use of a swell pedal. I never denied that. Where I said, however, that swellboxes are indispensable is in choral accompaniment, where they are invaluable in matching the volume of the = organ to the voices. This is especially true of small organs, where there may = not be very many soft registrations available. Quite honestly you can manage better without a swellbox on an organ of 100 stops -- where you will probably have the odd Aeoline, Flauto Dolce, etc. -- than on one of 10 stops. Lack of a a sufficient number of soft voices is a problem with the = 8 stop Aeolian-Skinner organ in my church even though it does have a = swellbox. It is inconvenient as an accompanimental instrument as it is, and would be almost totally useless without the swell.   John.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Small Organs...without shades.     > Hello, > > I normally admire almost anything that John Speller > writes, but this time.....erm......sorry John!      
(back) Subject: Re: John Curwen's notation system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929 From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:41:01 -0500   At 11:24 AM 2004-11-08 -0500, you wrote: >One of the blessings of the modern age is to be able to ask questions to >nice folks literally around the world and to learn from them. Let me try = to >do that once again: > >This coming Sunday I shall teach a Sunday School class to adults on = metrical >psalmody. In the process I wish to show my copy of _Scottish Psalter and >Church Hymnary_, Revised Edition, 1929. (Oxford U. Press). My copy uses >John Curwen's notation system of letters with rhythmic indications = printed >in straight lines left-to-right across the page for sopranos, altos, = tenors, >and basses, as opposed to note heads with note stems on five-line musical >staves or of neums on four-line staves as in plainsong. > >My question: to what extent did this ever really catch on in the = English- >speaking world? Can anyone detail the approximate years during which it = was >common at any given place? Or is it still common anywhere? > >It has a curious parallel, of course, to four-shape notation (and to a >lesser degree also seven-shape notation) in the United States. > >I'd be grateful to learn from anyone who can discuss Curwen's system with >me, particularly if you have been in situations where it was in fairly >common practice. Many thanks. > > Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA   Karl,   Our church used to sing from the Scottish Psalter, and our copies had the do-re-me notation. It is also called the sol-fa or as you say Curwen's system. It is still used in the smaller Scottish presbyterian churchers where they hold to the notion of purity of worship (part of it being singing the Psalms only, unaccompanied). The Presbyterian Reformed Church =   in the US use the old Scottish Psalter in this way.   Cheers,   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: Re: Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:58:48 -0600   It was published by Schirmer in 1896, and is about as out of print as it = is possible for anything to be. It is also firmly in the public domain, = so I would try getting it on interlibrary loan from your local public = library and then photocopy it.   John Speller=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ray Kimber=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Triumphal March by Dudley Buck, need sheet music     Hello list,   =20   I am trying to locate a copy of this sheet music for a friend. I have = tried to locate a copy for sale without much luck, any suggestions?   =20   Kind regards,   =20   Ray Kimber  
(back) Subject: Re: Virgil Fox Orchestral Recordings From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 01:18:54 +0800   The snippits of Mr. Fox's explainations between tracks on both "Heavy Organ= /Live at Filmore East" and "Heavy Organ II/Live at Winterland" (Hope I got = the venues associated with the right HO recordings) illustrate that he was = not a great "communicator."   I'm sure the actual "live" shows were something quite unique with "Puablo L= ights" and "Joe's Lights" ... they were visual shows and "A Cosmic Experien= ce."   See also: http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/Catalog.aspx?PerformingArtistID=3D8411   ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vanderlee <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: Virgil Fox Orchestral Recordings Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:36:35 -0800   >=20 > >Does anyone know which organs were used for these Virgil Fox recordings? > > > >I am not normally a pipe organ purist but I gave a listen to "Heavy=20 > >Organ" recently and had forgotten just how bad that touring organ=20 > >really sounded. I don't think that I thought so at the time I first=20 > >purchased is decades ago but the advances in digital organs really=20 > >show in comparison to this recording. I wouldn't want to waste my=20 > >money on this new CD if it is with that same organ used on "Heavy=20 > >Organ". >=20 > I enjoy it not so much for the organ's quality( or lack of), but=20 > more for its historical value , PLUS an organ concert to a FULL house=20 > full of teenage rockers; a precedent that has not been succeeded yet.=20 > ( I know I was there ;-) ) >=20 > John V     -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Glenda's statement From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:06:14 -0600   Glenda said, " I thought if I did my time, I would be rewarded eventually. But that is not to be, not here, not now. I think I am being called to a very different life from what I painted for myself, and I keep wondering if I am up to it."   Glenda, this is a puzzling statement--and perhaps a public forum is not the place to address it (if so, email me or a friend directly), but it sounds like severe depression, maybe even suicidal. I'm concerned.   Dennis Steckley   "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss        
(back) Subject: Re: John Curwen's notation system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929 From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 02:00:38 +0800   I don't know the extent of it's use, but as a curiosity, Curwen's hand-sign= als were used in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."   See also: http://education.deakin.edu.au/music_ed/history/curwen.html   ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Moyer <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> > My question: to what extent did this ever really catch on in the English- > speaking world? Can anyone detail the approximate years during which it = was > common at any given place? Or is it still common anywhere? >=20 >=20 > Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Maryland State Boychoir Saturday in Lancaster PA From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:27:01 -0500   The Maryland State Boychoir, centered in Baltimore, will sing Choral Evensong and then present a concert on Saturday night at 7:30 in Grace Lutheran Church, Lancaster. Included will be the Mag & Nunc in C of Stanford. Concert works include music by Palestrina, Burleigh, Clausen, John Rutter, and others.   No admission charge, but an offering will be received.   The church is at the corner starting the 500 block of North Queen Street = at James Street. Queen is a one-way street going north from the center of = the city, and persons coming from the north should drive south into Lancaster = on either Prince or Duke Streets until James Street and then turn toward the church.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA    
(back) Subject: Re: John Curwen's notation system in _Scottish Psalter_ 1929 From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:07:22 -0500   John Curwen's hand-signals are used heavily in certain areas of music education in the United States, often so closely related to the = implications of Zoltan Kodaly ideas brought into music education as to be incorrectly called "Kodaly hand signals." Millersville University, from whence I am retired, prepares all of her music education majors with great skill with these hand-signals, and our graduates' youngsters in public schools grow = up using them.   They are really a parallel usage to shape-note notation. In one case, the note-heads are in different physical appearances; in the other, then conductor's or singer's HAND is in different physical appearances. = Curwen's hand signals are of great value to teaching music literacy to youngsters, = as well as in undergraduate solfeggio courses based on moveable do.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA   On 11/8/04 1:00 PM, "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> wrote:   > I don't know the extent of it's use, but as a curiosity, Curwen's = hand-signals > were used in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." > > See also: > http://education.deakin.edu.au/music_ed/history/curwen.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Karl Moyer <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> >> My question: to what extent did this ever really catch on in the = English- >> speaking world? Can anyone detail the approximate years during which = it was >> common at any given place? Or is it still common anywhere? >> >> >> Karl E. Moyer >> Lancaster PA > -- > Jan Nijhuis > nijhuis@email.com