PipeChat Digest #4895 - Friday, November 12, 2004
 
Free reeds in pipe organs
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Trivia Quiz
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: A question regarding harmoniums.
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Trivia Quiz
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Trivia Quiz
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Trivia Quiz
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Trivia Quiz
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Glenda
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: A question regarding harmoniums.
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Recital X-posted CORRECTION
  by "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>
Re: A question regarding harmoniums.
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: A question regarding harmoniums.
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Theatre/pipe organs/digital organs
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Free reeds in pipe organs From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:18:37 EST   CHATsters: Just a couple of quick notes here... I think if we look at the way free reed stops were used in pipe organs = in the nineteenth century, we will see that they were novelties, reserved for =   softer stops that were not expected to contribute to the ensemble (with = names like AEolina, Baryton, Anthroharmonicon, Dolceataerion, Omphidoclithophon, =   etc.). In the first quarter of the twentieth century, they appeared as solo stops of woodwind character, such as Clarinets and English Horns. The = Clarinets, particularly those free-reed examples by Aeolian that featured = dead-length, adjustable, belled resonators, were notably fine. To be honest, the large free-reed keyboard instruments of the = harmonium and "reed organ" variety come closest in sound to steroid-fed accordions. = Some of the French models, and some of the large, high-end American ones (up to =   three manuals and pedal) were rather grand-sounding affairs if placed in a =   generous acoustic, but the tens of thousands of hideous-looking "parlor = organs" that were spit out of factories and shipped by rail to mail-order customers sounded as terrible as they looked. The Aeolian Orchestrelles had successful 16' stops because they used resonators and had good winding systems. The greatest mistake made in using free reed basses for smaller = cabinet pipe organs is that of using them for flute basses. They simply won't = sound like flutes, but if properly done, will take on the bowing, rosiny sound = of a 16' string, and can be made as loud as a decent Violone or as soft and cutting = as a focused Dulciana. Those of you who have heard the compact disc of our Alexander Chapel organ know the effect (the Vaughan Williams and second = Bach tracks show it off). A word of caution: they are finicky creatures, and will not move up = and down with the temperature the way pipes do; they are at their most = compatible in a temperature-controlled environment. They are effective because the = rate of speech, the harmonic content, and the amplitude match into the sound of = the 8' octave of pipes. They are individual sound sources, each taking up = their own space, each with an individual resonator. One of our major American pipe organ builders is currently working on = a large concert hall organ that I believe will have one or more free reed = stops, built overseas to their specifications, after much research and = development. These are free-reed pipes, as opposed to what we did at First = Presbyterian. The pipes must be made with great precision, as the tuning and alignment of = the moving parts is critical.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/   ..  
(back) Subject: Trivia Quiz From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:26:33 -0600   French poet C=E9cile Sauvage (1883-1927) says; "=D4 mon fils, je tiendrai ta t=EAte dans ma main, Je dirai : j'ai p=E9tri ce petit monde humain." So who was the little son whose head she was holding? Clue: this is not off topic!   John Speller
(back) Subject: Re: A question regarding harmoniums. From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:39:55 -0800   Estey's Vox Jubilante only ran to tenor f on their one-manual organs ... I don't remember about the full-compass two-manual and pedal ones. It and the 4' Viola in the bass were the front set of reeds, and the expression flap for them only opened with the knee swell; the back set of reeds had divided bass and treble flaps that faced the back of the case, and opened either with the knee swell or Forte I (bass) and Forte II (treble) knobs. In addition, they had mute flaps to make the Dolce and Dulciana out of the Diapason.   Cheers,   Bud   Andy Lawrence wrote:   >>Free-reed celestes (Estey made an ELEGANT Vox Jubilante) and soft >>strings and reeds MIGHT be an interesting cost-saving measure to >>consider, where space and funds are limited. Problem is, the tuning >>doesn't drift with the rest of the organ. That doesn't matter so >>much in the 16' octave, but it would higher up. >> > > > now THAT'S an interesting idea. A free-reed celeste. I know a lot of > technicians who never bother tuning celestes anyway, and while it drives = me > nuts, I do have to admit that when playing, I often cant' tell. Maybe a =   > little tuning drift (or lack of it) wouldn't matter too much with a > celeste. It would matter a lot less if both (or more) of the undulating =   > ranks were reeds, rather than reeds with pipes. Hmmmmm... The reed > celestes on my estey 2M&P reed organ sound nice, except that they become =   > inaudible in the bass, which is annoying. That's the voicer's "fault", > obviously. > > Andy > > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Trivia Quiz From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:47:03 -0500   on 11/11/04 8:26 PM, John L. Speller at jlspeller@swbell.net wrote:   French poet C=E9cile Sauvage (1883-1927) says; "=D4 mon fils, je tiendrai ta t=EAte dans ma main, Je dirai : j'ai p=E9tri ce petit monde humain." So who was the little son whose head she was holding? Clue: this is not off topic!   John Speller     Olivier Messiaen.         Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: Trivia Quiz From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:45:52 -0600   Re: Trivia QuizCorrect! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randolph Runyon=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: Trivia Quiz     on 11/11/04 8:26 PM, John L. Speller at jlspeller@swbell.net wrote:     French poet C=E9cile Sauvage (1883-1927) says; "=D4 mon fils, je tiendrai ta t=EAte dans ma main, Je dirai : j'ai p=E9tri ce petit monde humain." So who was the little son whose head she was holding? Clue: this is not off topic!   John Speller       Olivier Messiaen.  
(back) Subject: Re: Trivia Quiz From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:59:26 -0500   I had not known this before. It is really quite interesting. A little googling brought up http://poesie.webnet.fr/parutions/auteur.php?idAuteur=3D2= 0 where I found this on C=E9cile Sauvage: N=E9e en 1883 =E0 la Roche-sur-Yon, cett= e digne =E9mule de Marceline Desbordes-Valmore =E9leva ses enfants, dont son fils= , le musicien Olivier Messiaen, dans un contexte f=E9=E9rique. (Born in 1883 at Roche-sur-Yon, this worthy disciple of Marceline Desbordes-Valmore brought up her children, among whom her son , the musician Olivier Messiaen, in a fairy-tale context.) Desbordes-Valmore (1786-1859) is one of my favorite poets. Thanks for pointing this out!     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu               on 11/11/04 8:45 PM, John L. Speller at jlspeller@swbell.net wrote:   Correct! ----- Original Message ----- From: Randolph Runyon <mailto:runyonr@muohio.edu> To: PipeChat <mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: Trivia Quiz   on 11/11/04 8:26 PM, John L. Speller at jlspeller@swbell.net wrote:   French poet C=E9cile Sauvage (1883-1927) says; "=D4 mon fils, je tiendrai ta t=EAte dans ma main, Je dirai : j'ai p=E9tri ce petit monde humain." So who was the little son whose head she was holding? Clue: this is not off topic!   John Speller     Olivier Messiaen.        
(back) Subject: Re: Trivia Quiz From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:27:41 EST   I believe the answer is either Olivier Messiaen or Yoko Ono. Hmm... I should know this...  
(back) Subject: Glenda From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:20:13 -0600   Glenda......I'm very glad you're not suicidal! And, yes, I go through = those times of upheaval and wondering and refocusing and rearranging of goals.....but, as a pastor, I tend to latch on to certain thoughts or phrases and probe a bit......just as you, an attorney, no doubt do in that professional life!   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: A question regarding harmoniums. From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:44:53 -0500   The celeste on Estey's 2M&P reed organs was FULL 61-note COMPASS (pretty cool considering the recent discussion on this). There was a knob for the =   string, and another for its undulant. Like I said, though, it became awefully inaudible in the bass, and pretty loud in the treble, enough so that its usefulless is pretty limited. In a sense, its as though the bass =   isn't there! Pretty annoying cuz its like its there, and yet it isn't quite. Everything required to make it work is there, and yet... argh   It was ten ranks of reeds. The swell was 8884 (a string, celeste, and I guess flutes 8 and 4 or something). The Great was 16,8,8,8 (clarinet, diapason, dulcians, trumpet). The pedal was 16, 16 (bourdon, lieblich).   For Bach, my usual setup was full great, an octave up (or at least the 16 clarinet and 8 trumpet) and then full swell coupled to full pedal. = Assuming I wanted full organ with pedal independence. Finding softer registrations =   was easy enough. The swell pedal affected the entire organ but was only marginally effective.   I could also play trumpet voluntaries pretty effectively. Full great for the solo, full swell to accompany (both hands on swell for echo parts) and =   full pedal with great. Tutti at the end was full organ with swell coupled =   to great, up an octave.   They make great practice instruments except its tricky to keep them = airtight enough to work. The "chests" are built all wrong. I took mine apart to work on the checks and found it to not be so easy! I would have fixed it though if it wasn't that my life totally switched gears right after I took =   it apart. I'll put it back together eventually... probably as soon as I have a house to put it in.   Of course, there are other reasons not to like them, but I just considered =   them "quirks". The manuals are too high up, and too far away (but I just pretended it was a 3 manual organ with the bottom manual missing), the action incredibly heavy (I just avoided swell to great whenever = possible... it was rarely needed), and the pedals were a little weird (concave at the front but flat in the back) but that was no big deal really.   Andy     On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:39:55 -0800, Liquescent wrote > Estey's Vox Jubilante only ran to tenor f on their one-manual organs > ... I don't remember about the full-compass two-manual and pedal > ones. It and the 4' Viola in the bass were the front set of reeds, > and the expression flap for them only opened with the knee swell; > the back set of reeds had divided bass and treble flaps that faced > the back of the case, and opened either with the knee swell or Forte > I (bass) and Forte II (treble) knobs. In addition, they had mute > flaps to make the Dolce and Dulciana out of the Diapason. > > Cheers, > > Bud   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Recital X-posted CORRECTION From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:07:38 -0600   The correct date is Sunday November 14. Obviously the computer gremlins have been afoot! Sorry for any confusion.   Begin forwarded message:   > From: Larry Wheelock <llwheels@mac.com> > Date: November 11, 2004 5:10:27 PM CST > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org>, Pipe Related Topics Organs and > <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> > Subject: Recital X-posted > > Andrew Fredel, Director of Music at St. Peter's Church, Madison > Street, Chicago will play a program sponsored by the local Wisconsin > chapter of the Organ Historical Society. > > Place: Church of St. Francis of Assisi > 327 West Brown Street > Milwaukee, Wisconsin > > Time: 3:00 PM > > Date: Sunday, November 18, 2004 > > Instrument: This is a very, very significant historical instrument, > built by William Schuelke of Milwaukee in 1885. The instrument is > favorably situated in its original location; the West Gallery of the > Romanesque stone building (which was designed by William Schikel of > N.Y.). The organ has mechanical action with inverted Barker-Levers. > The room is quite reverberant despite the fact that (the last time I > was in the building, about 5 years ago) there was a significant amount > of carpeting present. The instrument is not often heard by the general > public and has a wonderful clear warm sound. I highly recommend the > program, for the performer, of course, but also for the rare chance to > hear this important instrument. > Larry Wheelock > Director of Music Ministries > Kenwood United Methodist Church > Milwaukee, Wisconsin > musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org
(back) Subject: Re: A question regarding harmoniums. From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:17:39 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I may have stated this before, but orchestral imitative reeds are fairly wide of the mark usually.   However, switch to genuine baroque organs........   When I go to Holland, I hear almost perfect replications of the instruments of the day....Dulzians, Regals, Cromornes, Fagots etc etc.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Andy Lawrence <andy@ablorgans.com> wrote: > > This is an interesting point too. How many pipe > organ Violas, Trumpets, > Oboes, Vox Humanas(!!!), bassoons, etc sound much > like the instruments they > are named after?     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com    
(back) Subject: Re: A question regarding harmoniums. From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:29:58 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Free reeds were used extensively in 19th century Germany, and not just as soft novelty registers in an expression box.   The 32ft reed at Doncaster PC, here in the UK, is a free reed......that's the famous Schulze organ of course.   I think we have to make a distinction between free-reeds mounted on a harmonium style reed-block, and free reeds which each have seperate resonator tubes.   I wouldn't have thought there was much space or cost saving with the latter.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Liquescent <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > I suppose we could kick around the legitimacy of > using free reeds in > pipe organs as a cost and space-saving measure, just > for fun ... does > that make them harmonium/organs? >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Theatre/pipe organs/digital organs From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:43:07 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Quite a few of us are interested in Theatre Organs, and I have played a couple of concerts on Wurlitzers.   Here in the UK, we had John Compton (the FIRST builder of a fully functioning theatre organ? ....discuss!)   John Compton more or less made a standard Compton unit organ, added metal Tibias, percussion and tremulants. In fact, they are church organs with additions, whereas a Wurlitzer is very much designed as an entertainment instrument from the ground up.   The roots and history of classical organs tends to be more interesting and complex, but don't for one moment think that there aren't theatre organ admirers/performers on the list.   I think the name Tom Hazelton means something to us!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- EDWIN MAURER <edmarthas@msn.com> wrote:   > > When I read all these writings on Pipe Chat I > wonder some time if this list needs to separated for > Classical Pipes and Theatre Pipes. It always seems > to be Classical.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com