PipeChat Digest #4905 - Sunday, November 14, 2004
 
Re: tracker, electric, etc
  by "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
RE: Actions and pipe speech onset
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Caleb Simper
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Caleb Simper p.s.
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
more Les Maitres (yes, more!)
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
RE: tracker, electric, etc
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: smokin' A***ns
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Actions and pipe speech onset
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: tracker, electric, etc
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
this weekend's music
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: smokin' A***ns
  by "Andrew Barss" <asbarss@eastlink.ca>
Re: tracker, electric, etc
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: tracker, electric, etc
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: tracker, electric, etc
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: this weekend's music
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: tracker, electric, etc From: "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:14:29 -0600   Fine, I'll just continue to watch people fight about pointless things.   Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net    
(back) Subject: RE: Actions and pipe speech onset From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 05:20:17 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I would just repeat that I CAN very the speed of pipe-speech, but I cannot imagine why I would want to!   My 8ft Principal can be made to chug into life like an asmatic steam-engine, but where's the music in that?   Incidentally, the explosive collapse of pneumatic motors was a source of great discussion concerning the Schulze restoration at St.Bart's, Armley, where the pipe speech is distinctly not set for an action quicker than barker-lever, and which no one dare alter!!   EP opens the pallets quicker than direct electric action, even though the key to speech response is slower overall, due to the firing of pneumatic relays.   I would be interested to know how Harrison & Harrison have got around the problem in the re-building and restoration of the Binns pneumatic action which fires up the Schulze pipes.   Expansion chambers are the obvious answer, for they allow a degree of elasticity and pneumatic cushioning, but I cannot imagine that this has been done at Armley.   Anyone know?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote:   > Good. That settles the question then. I was not > aware that such tests had > been done. Although I must say that if the solenoid > "yanks open the pallet > too fast" I would have thought it ought to be > adjusted not to; or at any > rate, replaced with an electro-pneumatic action > which more accurately > mimicked the kind of opening speed achieved with a > tracker actuated by a > human finger.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Caleb Simper From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:27:13 -0800   No you don't Bob, you sent most (all?) of them to me, and we sang them regularly at St. Matthew's (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud   bobelms wrote:   > Staffan, Caleb Simper was an English organist and composer of the 19th > Century whose works were immensely popular with the run-of-the-mill > church choirs and organists up till about 50 years ago. When I was about =   > 16 years of age I used his voluntaries a lot but with maturity I > wouldn't be bothered with them. > He was not a great composer of either organ music ro choral music. He > could be described as the Edouard Batiste of the English organ. His > anthems ran mainly along the line of Big Opening in 4/4 time - Change > of Key in 6/8 or 3/4 time with maybe a solo for a soprano, and then Big > Finish and there was a sameness in most of his work.Probably the best of =   > his anthems was one called King of Kings, but even that had an element > of corn. All of his anthems were based on scriptural text. > I still have some of his anthems in the choir cupboard but we have not > used them for years. > Bob Elms > > > > From: "Staffan Thuringer" <staffan_thuringer@YAHOO.COM.AU> > To: <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 4:35 PM > Subject: Re: Caleb Simper > > >> On Mon, 26 May 1997 08:19:23 EDT, Brian R. Sweetman >> <Brian_R._Sweetman@canada.notes.pw.com> wrote: >> >>> I saw the name of Caleb Simper mentioned this last week in one of the >> >> postings. >> >>> I have inherited several of his volumes of organ music. Can anyone = tell >> >> me who >> >>> he was? >> >> >> Dear List, >> this has been a long time coming... >> There is noe a website about Simper: >> >> http://www.cul.co.uk/music/compx.htm >> >> He was quite popular in the British Empire, but were his anthems ever >> sung >> in the US? >> Regards >> Staffan Thuringer >> Melbourne, Part of the British Commonwealth... >> >> = :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> Note: opinions expressed on PIPORG-L are those of the individual = con- >> tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the = Uni- >> versity at Albany. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail = to >> listserv@listserv.albany.edu saying GET LSVCMMDS.TXT or see the = web >> page at http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/lsvcmmds.html . >> = :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Caleb Simper p.s. From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:37:12 -0800   And thank you, Bob! The congregation loved them; the choir thought they were hilarous, and definitely sang them tongue-in-cheek with appropriate Victorian gestures (thank the good LORD we were in the BACK) (chuckle).   We never got round to the Barnby "O Give Thanks" (is it? the one with the hee hees and ho hos in the bass part when the valleys or whoever laugh and sing) ... I shudder to think what my basses would have done with THAT (grin).   Unfortunately the present O/C thinks anything after Byrd is formidable trash, and won't touch them ... most of the more than 1000 titles I collected have been shipped to the Anglican Catholic pro-cathedral in Athens, GA, where they are appreciate and sung, and will be preserved for posterity.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: more Les Maitres (yes, more!) From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:44:54 -0800   I had a few spare moments, so I did more of this last night:   http://evensongmusic.net/free.html   pages 90-115   I'm about 1/2 done now with vol.3, thne it's on to finishing vol. 6   enjoy and best wishes to all.......   -Jonathan  
(back) Subject: RE: tracker, electric, etc From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:50:29 -0000   Since when did discussion equal fighting?   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Scott Montgomery Sent: 14 November 2004 12:14 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: tracker, electric, etc   Fine, I'll just continue to watch people fight about pointless things.   Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: smokin' A***ns From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:10:24 -0500   Dear Andrew, I have to agree with you and live 10 miles from Macungie. I have the Allen techs come to the house and they have everything they need to just about rebuild the unit. If they don't, where, as an example, we added some channels, it was in the parts bin at Allen. Stuff for old T-50 amps is = still available but most times the techs just replace the amp with one in the truck and take the old one back for rebuild. With the old analog organs, Carousel or Custom IV i never had a problem with parts nor with the newer Theatre III for replacement or additions. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Barss" <asbarss@eastlink.ca> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: Re: smokin' A***ns     Dale,   My interpretation (and, I believe, Allen's) of "all parts for all organs" is not that the company maintains some warehouse of literally every single part for every single organ ever built.   Rather, in my opinion, the point is that they are able to supply compatible equipment to any customer who would rather repair than replace their existing instrument.   In my experience (I do help out the local Allen dealer with service work) AOC has never failed to achieve that goal -- and I am not personally aware of such a failure ever happening. Further, based on my interaction with their service staff, I would suggest that AOC would definitely want to hear from any customer who was told that parts could not be obtained to repair their Allen organ (i.e., therefore, they should replace it). Such a statement flies directly in the face of their corporate policy.   My experience with other manufacturers is limited but I have had first-hand experience and heard second-hand anecdotes (from trusted sources) where either parts were not available at all, or the order would be accepted but the parts never actually arrived (even six to eight months later).   In my opinion repairing vs replacing a part is semantics. The issue is whether the organ can be made to work for that customer.   Cheers, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia   On Nov 13, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > <snip> ... if they believe a company has ALL PARTS FOR ALL organs, > they get what they deserve. anytime you have to upgrade and put in a > new computer, it is not repairing with parts, it is replacing. > > oh well, guess it shows i am not an Allen fan. > > dale in florida   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004    
(back) Subject: Actions and pipe speech onset From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:04:43 -0600 (Central Standard Time)   Ross wrote to PipeChat: > Tracker is immediate, where electric action always time to work. > Tracker gives a better feel to the player.   > Electrics are sometimes necessary, of course: for example, where > the organ has to be scattered around a building not designed for a > large organ, like St Paul's in London, or . . .   Or where there are functional reasons why it is necessary.   OK, time for me to weigh-in on this discussion as a builder.   A number of years ago, we re-built a 1905 Hinners tracker organ that was a VERY strange animal, in terms of its internal layout, in that the = mechanism was juxtaposed 90=B0 in the case from what the facade would normally = dictate.   Consequently, the speaking bass pipes for several Prestant ranks on the facade were removed from the Main Windchest by MILES and were conductored = to them. The result was a pluck on the bass notes that required the force of = a sledgehammer to press the keys down and a windpressure at the toes of the facade, due to pressure-loss through the conductors, of perhaps 1". Additionally, the layout of the Pedal pipes was such that access to the interior of the instrument for the purposes of maintenance was impossible. =   So, the decision was made that offset/bass pipes would be played on non-tracker acrtion, while the trebles of both manuals would be on a very sensitive suspended tracker action. The Pedal was also converted to non-tracker action.   After re-voicing the pipework to give great responsiveness to the = sensitive suspended action, it became VERY easy to have a side-by-side comparison of the response-times between the non-tracker basses to the tracker treble portions of the action. In the case of the Diapason 8' on the Great, the action break-point is between Tenor E and F.   The difference in speech and action speed are astonishing and leaves no = room for doubt or argument as to the superiority of the tracker action in that regard.   It was earlier stated that in the largest and smallest pipes, the effect = of the action on the pipe speech would be less pronounced, which is true to some extent. That is why we felt that at least in the basses (such as the largest facade pipes and Pedal pipes) we could be "forgiven" for incorporating such a compromise; especially in light of the fact that the alternative was virtually NO wind to the facade pipes or inaccessibility = to the organ for the purposes of tuning with the former interior arrangement.   Anyone who would like to come visit this instrument and dispel any = question as to the relative merits of this discussion is invited to contact the writer privately.   Faithfully,   Richard Schneider  
(back) Subject: Re: tracker, electric, etc From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:45:27 -0500   (To whoever wanted this discussion to stop):   It seems like chatting about organs is a good use of an organ chat room, no? If we all agree, then we'd be done and there would be no need for the =   chat room (gosh, think of the time I'd save)! ;) This discussion has = been most informative for me. I still don't know what the answer is, but I = know what more of the questions are, and at least the standard answers to those =   questions.   Recently I heard David Nieween to an amazing demonstration on the Fisk instrument at the University of Vermont. Its voiced with extremely low windpressure and high cutups (the voicing is right on that hairy edge = where if a pipe goes slightly out of tune, it sometimes stops speaking completely!) and weird reeds (to the American ear) and I've always = wondered why on earth anyone would build an organ like that. He did a great job of =   showing how the music it was designed for comes alive. Perhaps if someone =   could demo a sensitive action for me and what it could do musically, I'd = be a believer. Enough people are claiming it to be true that I at least have =   to believe its _possible_   I still don't prefer the UVM Fisk, but at least I have an appreciation for =   it that I lacked.   Andy     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: this weekend's music From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:01:04 EST   This Thursday-Saturday was our Third Annual Church Music Summit at Friendship Missionary Baptist Church, Charlotte, NC. Saturday evening, we = had a communion service led by Rev. Dr. Linda Hollies, of Grand Rapids, MI, who = was one of the guest clinicians, with music directed by other guest clinicians. Conductors: Dr. Tony Leach (Penn State University, College Station, PA) Dr. Diane White (Israel Baptist Church, Washington, DC) Mr. Glenn Burliegh (composer, pianist, conductor--Oklahoma City, = OK--distant cousin of the famous Harry. T. Burliegh) Dr. Jimmie Abbington (Morgan State University, Baltimore, MD) Mr. V. Michael McKay (Brentwood Baptist Church, Houston, TX) Musicians: Monty Bennett--pipe organ Rodney Whitley and Monty Bennett--Hammond organ Stepheny Scott, Tony McNeill, Rodney Whitley, Tony Leach, Keith Hampton--piano Amantha Barbee-Friday--electric bass Terence Patterson--percussion Friendship Baptist Church Orchestra--Sonja Smith, Conductor A Service of Reflection, Recommitment and Holy Communion Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:00 PM Prelude: Choral Joseph Jongen Hymn of Praise: For the Music of Creation (Nettleton) Prayer Chant: When in Our Music God is Glorified (vs. 1, 2, 3) Choral Response (following the affirmation of faith): When in Our Music = God is Glorified (vs. 4, 5) Postlude: He Is Exalted Fred Bock During the service we had a liturgical dance presentation as well as a = mime presentation, and a dramatic presentation of the Scripture reading. The choral music was: It Happened on Calvary--Raymond Wise; My Heart = Says "Yes"--Diane White; Fanfare and Processional--Undine Smith Moore; Blessed =   Quietness--Glenn Burleigh. The choir was made up of singers who attended the Music Summit, augmented = by members of the Friendship Baptist Church Choir. Next year, the two main clinicians for the conference will be Andre = Thomas and Rodney Eichenberger. The dates are November 10-13, 2005. For = further information, visit the website: _www.churchmusicsummit.net_ (http://www.churchmusicsummit.net) . This morning, those attendees who stayed sang at the 9:15 and 11:15AM services. Our Ladies Choir sang at the 7:30 service. Needless to say, = our church staff was all dragging at the early service, but we hung in there! Music of Preparation: Andante (Symph. No. 1) Louis Vierne Hymn of Praise: For the Music of Creation (Nettleton) Ministry of Music: 7:30 He's Blessing Me Over and Over Again---Ladies = Choir 9:15/11:15 If My People--Glenn Burleigh Prayer Response: When in Our Music God is Glorified (Engleberg) Ministry of Music: 9:15/11:15 Blessed Quietness--Glenn Burleigh Fanfare and Processional--Undine Smith Moore Ministry of Thanksgiving: 7:30 Min. Lisa Kemp, guest soloist--Miami, FL 9:15/11:15 My Heart Says = "Yes"--Diane White Postlude: Toccata on Rejoice, Ye Pure in Heart Albert Travis Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC  
(back) Subject: Re: smokin' A***ns From: "Andrew Barss" <asbarss@eastlink.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:01:52 -0400   I'm not clear what you mean by "they force upgrades on older models."   Are you implying that you know of a customer who has been told they=20 need to remove their existing instrument and replace it with an=20 entirely new organ, or are you talking about (for example) replacing a=20=   combination action board with an updated version because the original=20 one can not be repaired in its present form? My answer to each of those=20=   possibilities is different.   If the first possibility, I go back to a statement in my original post=20=   ....   "I would suggest that AOC would definitely want to hear from any=20 customer who was told that parts could not be obtained to repair their=20=   Allen organ (i.e., therefore, they should replace it). Such a statement=20=   flies directly in the face of their corporate policy."   If the second then, hey, at least they are providing a compatible=20 circuit in order to avoid the first possibility.   Expanding upon the specific example I cited, it is possible that=20 combination action boards in earlier Allen organs (built between the=20 mid 70's and mid 80s) cannot be repaired simply because the 1MB memory=20=   chips that were used back then are about as plentiful as hen's teeth in=20=   this GB era we're presently in.   That being said, the AOC engineering department built a replacement=20 board that uses modern memory chips (EEROMs -- no more batteries) and=20 it is available when necessary. The advantage to the customer is that=20 their organ is up and running again for a moderate service cost versus=20=   having to either live without a combination action or replace the=20 entire instrument.   Your point about whether "the business is still in business" is well=20 taken at both manufacturer and local dealer levels.   Cheers, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia   On Nov 14, 2004, at 5:21 AM, Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 11/13/2004 10:11:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 > asbarss@eastlink.ca writes: > > > My experience with other manufacturers is limited but I have had > first-hand experience and heard second-hand anecdotes (from trusted > sources) where either parts were not available at all, or the order > would be accepted but the parts never actually arrived (even six to > eight months later). > > > > which is exactly what my anecdotal evidence is with Allen and why=20 > they force=A0=A0 upgrades on older models.....or the parts are really=20=   > similar and new models are not new but tweaked stuff from custom days=20=   > with Phelps. > > In reality, it all boils down to IF the business is still in=20 > business, and if they take care of the end user. :-) that is really=20 > all that matters. > > dale in Florida=    
(back) Subject: Re: tracker, electric, etc From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:06:02 -0500   On 11/13/04 11:07 PM, "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> wrote:   > Some like the technological advancement of electric action while others l= ike > the tracker action.   Scott: If you're going to mention =B3the technological advancement of=B2 electric action, ought you not also mention =B3the technological advancement of=B2 the tracker action? Just to be even-handed?   Surely EACH has experienced its own kind of =B3technological advancement=B2 in the past several decades.   Alan            
(back) Subject: Re: tracker, electric, etc From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:13:38 EST     In a message dated 11/14/04 2:46:08 PM, andy@ablorgans.com writes:     > (To whoever wanted this discussion to stop): >=20 > It seems like chatting about organs is a good use of an organ chat room, > no?=A0 If we all agree, then we'd be done and there would be no need for t= he > chat room (gosh, think of the time I'd save)!=A0 ;)=A0 This discussion has= been > most informative for me.=A0 I still don't know what the answer is, but I k= now > what more of the questions are, and at least the standard answers to those > questions. >=20   I must agree with Scott-this topic does come up too frequently-it's either=20 pipe vs digi-or tracker vs. EP-Most of the time I think it is long time=20 pipechatters who keep bringing this stuff up. Just my very very tired Sund= ay=20 afternoon opinion. gfc       Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net  
(back) Subject: Re: tracker, electric, etc From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:37:44 EST   In a message dated 11/13/04 10:07:41 PM, montre1978@yahoo.com (Scott Montgomery) wrote:     "I am growing tired of this conversation, as we all have our own opinions. Can we just leave it at that?"   No. We cannot. That's what has destroyed this field, so let's not perpetuate the apathy. Read the correspondence, and you will actually see that there IS agreement and consensus on some particular points in this debate. In fact, = the accord is evident on some very important items.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: this weekend's music From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:05:34 -0500   On 11/14/04 4:01 PM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote:   > This Thursday-Saturday was our Third Annual Church Music Summit at > Friendship Missionary Baptist Church, Charlotte, NC.   Monty: I am simply in awe! I can't imagine ANY church, of any denomination, pulling off something better than that, anywhere!   Get a couple days' sleep. And know that THIS Lutheran is VERY impressed.   Alan, having enjoyed a fabulous repot!