PipeChat Digest #4923 - Wednesday, November 24, 2004
 
Re: Re: Colin & Composers
  by <giwro@adelphia.net>
Colin and Composers
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: [LONG] David Briggs and some Presbyterians in Birmingham, Part 1 of 2
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
RE: [LONG] David Briggs and some Presbyterians in Birmingham, Part 1 of 2
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Colin and Composers
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: Colin and Composers - my 2d worth
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
RE: Colin & Composers
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Colin and Composers
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Re: Colin & Composers From: <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:06:00 -0800   I had to weigh in here on Tournemire -   He wrote a number of orchestral Symphonies, several of which I have = recently heard...   I have to say he was a fine composer of more than just organ music - I = loved the symphionies!   Jonathan > > From: Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> > Date: 2004/11/23 Tue PM 08:06:03 PST > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Subject: Re: Colin & Composers > > > Then there are the "organist/composers" that we keep > to ourselves...... Tournemire, Durufle, Dupre, > Buxtehude etc etc. > > Who knows, the world may get wise eventually. > > Organists rule!! OK? > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > > > > --- "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" > <kzrev@rr1.net> wrote: > > > Colin......I look at a list of the "major" western > > composers and draw the > > opposite conclusion you do. Of the whole bunch, > > only Bach is a major > > composer for organ. I think what hurts organists is > > that most of the organ > > composers outside of Bach are second rate--by > > comparison--to Handel, Mozart, > > Chopin, Beethoven, et. al. Flame away. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: Colin and Composers From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:24:14 -0600   Colin--and Greg......I think you made my point; yes, you could add Brahms and perhaps Mendelssohn (though I'm not sure he'd make the "top tier" of composers) and all those early composers you mentioned.......but, as much = as I like SOME of their music, I'm sorry, but IMNSHO folk like Franck, Widor, Durufle, Reger, et. al. will never be considered as top tier composers. I didn't say they were bad--I just don't think they're anywhere close to the same league as Bach, Mozart, Handel, Brahms and Beethoven.........   And, frankly, I think that is ONE of the reasons why classical organ music can be a hard sell even with the classical music crowd.....the quality simply isn't equivalent to top tier orchestral stuff.   A couple hundred years down the road, we'll see (or somebody may--WE won't!).   Donning my flameproof suit, Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: [LONG] David Briggs and some Presbyterians in Birmingham, Part 1 of 2 From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:00:01 -0800     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> >Lunch was an utterly charming affair with four other witty and >fun-loving people. We laughed and bantered while putting away Thai food >(at David's request). It turned out that Jeff's friends were originally >from Pensacola, and the woman's parents were fellow AGO chapter members >that I knew, so it is a small world. The man was a former minister at >the Presbyterian church in Laurel, Mississippi, where Jeff spent time as >organist. They were delightful. Briggs, a native of Birmingham, England (pronounced quite differently from its sister city in Alabama), >is married and currently living a few blocks from Riverside Church, >having given up his Gloucester Cathedral job, with the organ and >8-second reverberation time, in 2002. He is to spend six months next >year at the University of the South at Swanee, then six months back in >England.     Glenda,   Another evocative account! And I'd gather from this that David is fully recovered from what I'm remembering as a fairly severe heart scare a year ago or so, particularly scary for someone so young? I sort of met him in = the loft at Notre Dame back in 2002, and he seemed as unpretentious and = pleasant as his records show him to be talented. Nice company!   MAF    
(back) Subject: RE: [LONG] David Briggs and some Presbyterians in Birmingham, Part 1 of 2 From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:42:59 +1300     >having given up his Gloucester Cathedral job, with the organ and >8-second reverberation time, in 2002.   Sorry to have to be so blunt, but there's no way that Gloucester Cathedral has 8 seconds reverberation time. It's only about 3.5 seconds at most. I = sat on the screen next to the console for a service there only a few weeks = ago, and it's nowhere near as long as Wellington Cathedral here in NZ, which = DOES have 8 secs.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Colin and Composers From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:07:06 -0800   No flame proof suit needed... we don't do that here <chuckle>   I think I shall have to respectfully disagree with this statement...   I have done YEARS of research and exploration of unfamiliar composers, many of them organists...   Without getting into a long laundry list of composers, I will suffice to say that what this exploration has shown me is that there are some very fine composers (maybe even what you would call "top tier") who simply weren't in the = right place at the right time, or perhaps were unaware of the proper persons to kiss up to.... (I'm thinking a much less savory expression, but you get the = idea)   Some of these composers wrote because they loved their music, and could care less if the public ever heard it, embraced it or gave them accolades as a great composer. I have a dear friend who can play circles around most, writes fabulous music, and is perfectly content to be a humble parish musician... he shuns the spotlight and loves nurturing his little choir.. I'm _STILL_ trying to convince him to let me publish his stuff.   One man's trash is another's treasure - I my revere what you disdain, <chuckle> and you are perfectly welcome to that opinion...   BUT   I still believe from my experience and exploration that there are any number of organist- composers who can stand equally with the finest non-organ composers, even though they have written none or very little non-organ music.   Cheers,   Jonathan   First Christian Church of Casey, IL wrote:   >And, frankly, I think that is ONE of the reasons why classical organ = music >can be a hard sell even with the classical music crowd.....the quality >simply isn't equivalent to top tier orchestral stuff. > > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Colin and Composers - my 2d worth From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:15:20 -0000   Aren't you setting yourself impossibly high standards? Good music (by which I mean music which we enjoy listening to) isn't composed to get into one league or another. Even 'pop' music isn't composed to get into the charts, per se; but to = 'make money'.   "Music is spiritual. The music business is not." Van Morrison   I know that my output isn't "First, second, or even third tier" and can't compare to most of the output of those listed, still - it's not too bad - = I mean, folks don't actually get up and walk out when it's performed, = indeed, some go so far as to praise it or to say that, although they find it challenging, they understand it has something to say to them which they = are prepared to apply their 'grey matter' to.   How far down the scale do I get rated ? (bearing in mind that there are others (possibly) below even my poor efforts).   "How low can we go ?"   Remember_   "A good composer is slowly discovered, a bad composer is slowly found = out." Ernest Newman   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman descending to the very depths] ____________________________________   ----- Original Message ----- From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 5:24 AM Subject: Colin and Composers   [snip] " perhaps Mendelssohn (though I'm not sure he'd make the "top tier" of composers) [snip] IMNSHO folk like Franck, Widor, Durufle, Reger, et. al. will never be considered as top tier composers."   [snipping away]   "Today's music heralds the establishment of a society of repetition in = which nothing will happen anymore." Jacques Attali    
(back) Subject: RE: Colin & Composers From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:36:39 +1300   >I guess Franck and Mendelssohn are totally second rate-oh, Messiaen and Reger sucked too.=A0 I could go on and on...but its just not worth it.   Some people would say so. I've heard Franck totally dismissed, and Reger = as well. Messiaen is regarded as non-musical nonsense by many people. = Others have noisily said that Mendelssohn's music is too simple and he never = "grew" up and developed but kept an immature style. I'm not saying those = things, but I've often heard them said.   The thing to do is enjoy the music we do have, and the willingness of = gifted people to write it down. Think of other musicians who have "problems": = Sor and Torroba, et al., are unknown outside guitar circles. Complain? No, = I'm not. Others didn't write much and/or died young, like the wonderful = Arriaga.     Ross            
(back) Subject: Re: Colin and Composers From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:37:13 EST     In a message dated 11/23/04 11:26:52 PM, kzrev@rr1.net writes:     > Colin--and Greg......I think you made my point; yes, you could add Brahms > and perhaps Mendelssohn (though I'm not sure he'd make the "top tier" of > composers) and all those early composers you mentioned.......but, as much=20= as > I like SOME of their music, I'm sorry, but IMNSHO folk like Franck, Widor, > Durufle, Reger, et. al. will never be considered as top tier composers.= =A0 I > didn't say they were bad--I just don't think they're anywhere close to the > same league as Bach, Mozart, Handel, Brahms and Beethoven......... >=20 > And, frankly, I think that is ONE of the reasons why classical organ music > can be a hard sell even with the classical music crowd.....the quality > simply isn't equivalent to top tier orchestral stuff. >=20 > A couple hundred years down the road, we'll see (or somebody may--WE > won't!). >=20 > Donning my flameproof suit, > Dennis Steckley > Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines >=20   So, I suppose we are all in pursuit of second rate music then? How on eart= h=20 could you say that Franck is not top knotch? Study the music sometime-I=20 mean analyze it...you will change your mind...       Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net