PipeChat Digest #4935 - Saturday, November 27, 2004 Re: stop list competition by <Steskinner@aol.com> Re: from an old frump by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Re: Stoplist "Competition"--Koppelflote, Coppel, etc. by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: Other Bristol organs of note (nice pics) by "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> A further touch of vintage wine from Organists and us Online by "John F oss" <email@example.com> Re: Stoplist "Competition" by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: St. Mary Redcliffe by "Mattcinnj" <email@example.com> Re: Stoplist "Competition"--Koppelflote, Coppel, etc. by "Tom Jones" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: from an old frump by "Harry Grove" <email@example.com> The Dm T/F Overdone? [was: Disney Hall Organ] by "Bill Hauser" <firstname.lastname@example.org> ""Werkprinzip"": a 20th-century construct by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Thriving on Misinformation by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: this organ by "John F oss" <email@example.com> Harrison organs by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: stop list competition From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 05:29:49 EST In a message dated 11/26/2004 10:29:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, email@example.com writes: SWELL (encl.) Gedeckt 8' Recorder 4' Nasard 2-2/3' Piccolo 2' Tierce 1-3/5' Trumpet 8' Tremulant I couldn't diasgree more! With a severely limited stoplist, having a = cornet decompose, adding a trumpet and calling is a swell is just, well, beyond = my understanding. Should have a pair of voluptuous strings, a loud flute, a = honkin' 4' principal,a 16' basson and 8' trumpet. That would make some noise! Steven Skinner Minister of Music First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA
(back) Subject: Re: from an old frump From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:04:17 -0800 (PST) Hello, OK, I'll have a try....... In England we pump ....No! That will not do. How about, "When the organist turns on the ....." Not good! Let's try, "Passing wind down trunking......" Oh dear! Maybe, "A rotating fan, driven by an electric motor, forces compressed air into a set of bellows...." Far too long! This isn't "New Scientist" Perhaps we could just resurrect the spirit of "Round the Horne"...... "Heavy wind in the Trossachs soon reaches the Fife region!" Regards, Colin Mitchell UK --- Bob Conway <email@example.com> wrote: > At 12:30 AM 11/27/2004, Colin wrote: > >Hello, > > > >Thank heavens we only blow organs over here in the > UK. > > Er, Yes, - but that has a rather different > connotation on this side of the > pond, Colin! Unless you mean it, I would suggest > that you re-phrase that > little gem! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
(back) Subject: Re: Stoplist "Competition"--Koppelflote, Coppel, etc. From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:50:28 EST The competition has gotten a little out of hand now...but regardless, a builder could engrave whatever he/she pleases or whatever the organist = wishes on the stopknob or the stop tab or the illuminated rocker and it still won't = change what the rank of pipes is. How many organs have we all played = that said 8' Diapason and it was a chiffy, spitty, thinly scaled rank of = neo-baroque pseudo "Prinzipal" pipes from the 1960's? Or take for example on the = Swell division of the organ at my church--the 8' flute is called "Doppelflote". = There is no doppelflote in the whole organ. It's a big fat hooty stopped wooden = flute--with ONE mouth. If I had a big trem on it, it could pass as a = Tibia Minor. Nomenclature and what the rank actually is can be, and often are = two polar opposites, thanks to the American organ mills and organists who didn't/don't know the difference--and don't care to. Yes, there are differences between types of stops, but if an organist = isn't going to recognize the difference between a Doppelflote and a Gedeckt, = and many don't care to make the differences between Principals, Prinzipals, Principaals, and Diapasons, why do we think that they're going to take = the time to recognize the difference between = Koppelflote/Coppelflote/Coppel/Spillflote. It's all about education. We as organists need to be up on this kind of matter. When discussing with organ builders, we should be able to talk intelligently with an organ builder, and not just say, I want a Koppel = Flute. When designing and organ there is a definite reason as to why you should want = an Open Flute at 4 and a Stopped Flute at 8, vs. an Open 8' flute and a Semi = Capped 4' Flute---is it for sound, for literature, for liturgy? When I designed the new organ for my church, I did hours and hours of research of stoplists, of new organs, historic ones, and existing ones. = I visited instruments, I looked at pipe work. I talked to our builder. I talked = to our organ technician. I listened to recordings with stoplists in hand = trying to pick out stops and see what I though worked or didn't and why. After = I sat down and came up with the stoplist, and revised it, (several times!) Francesco and I worked through it some more, talking about his ideas of = what I had and how he thought it would work. He had a few minor changes, but we stay in contact as he designs shallots = and figures windpressures, etc. Designs like this small organ are best left to the professionals. It is MUCH harder to design a small instrument and make it flexible and = interesting. We can sit around and dream all day long. But until the room is = acoustically sucessful, and we know things like windpressure, how much room there is = on the chest, our efforts are useless. Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: Re: Other Bristol organs of note (nice pics) From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:52:50 -0600 I spent seven years at the University of Bristol back in the late sixties = - early seventies, so I know all of the instruments Colin lists quite well. = I remember thinking that the Father Willis material at Redland Park Congregational Church (now URC) was vastly superior to the additions. It was possible simply to sit at the console and pick out the original stops just by the sound. There was one other very fine organ in Bristol which has now, alas, been broken up and replaced by an electronic. This was the Father Willis organ in Redland Parish Church. It must be confessed that the Willis organ was = a bit of an intrusion, architecturally speaking, in the fine eighteenth-century church, but tonally speaking many considered it the = best organ in Bristol, even though it was not particularly large. It is a = shame it has gone. John Speller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: Other Bristol organs of note (nice pics) > Hello, > > By UK standards, Bristol has an amazing wealth of > really good organs, such as the newish Rieger at the > RC Cathedral Clifton, All Saint's Clifton, Colston > Hall, the Cathedral etc etc.
(back) Subject: A further touch of vintage wine from Organists and us Online From: "John F oss" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:36:02 +0200 Continuing our French "Grand Menu" we offer you as an Hors d'Oeuvres "Dialogue Sur Les Grands Jeux" by Nicolas De Grigny, played by Gregory Ceurvorst on the III/42 1981 Martin Ott Organ at Northern Illinois University DeKalb, Illinois USA. For the entr=E9es we recommend the = Prelude (op. 5) by Marice Durufle, played by Hallgeir =D8gaard on the III/61 1997 Rieger Organ in Bergen Cathedral, Norway - a wonderfully atmospheric performance of this creation of a master craftsman's pen - followed by the = fourth and final movement of Guilmant's Sonata No. 4, Op. 61 in D minor, played by David M Patrick on the III/62 2000 Van den Heuvel Organ in the Katarina Church, Stockholm, Sweden. All four movements are now there for = you to listen to in a virtuoso performance of this fine work. If you want to go downtown and slum it a bit afterwards you can hear the mighty Compton Organ in Malvern Town Hall, Melbourne. Yours truly playing the "Golden Era - Part 2." John McLennan is there tuning it this weekend - = maybe as you are reading this, even. He reminded me that it hasn't got 132 = ranks, he is glad to say. Well, I had realised that - it has 17 ranks - = but it has got about 132 stops. It's a big sound! We have also added one or two new links to the links page, including the home pages of Jon Kristian Fjellestad, Bob Loesch, The Rye Wurlitzer - a 2 = manual 6 rank Style D built in 1925, and the second Wurlitzer to be = imported into the UK, amd Richard Mogridge's Walnut Hill Productions. For those of = us who love cats we have also put a link to Cat Lover's Paradise -you can't = say we aren't eclectic! John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/
(back) Subject: Re: Stoplist "Competition" From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:51:35 -0800 (PST) I have not been keeping up with this competition at all, but did have some = thoughts. It's probably not too, too fair to design an organ for a space = without knowing anything about it. While the singing may be "robust" = during chapel services, how big is the room? What are its diminsions? What = space is there for an organ? Is there enough space to have a free standing = case or will it have to be chambered? If it has to be chambered, is there = a possibility for two shallow chambers, or sould they have to suffice with = one excessively deep chamber? There's a lot of things to take into = account. Since i have not been reading many of the posts, this may have = already come into the conversation. As Monty mentioned, figue out why you want certain stops, and know the = differences. The Dictionary of Organ Stops is online nowadays, isnt it? = While there was mention of the necessary need of an 8' trumpet on the = Swell, what type of style would you like? What type of style would suit = the room nicely? Could the room handle a complete battery of 16, 8, 8, 4? fwiw TDH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: St. Mary Redcliffe From: "Mattcinnj" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:12:28 -0800 (PST) Hi Everyone, I believe the Allen Organ company sampled this organ ..... and the samples = are heavily incorporated in the "English Cathedral" versions of Heritage = and "Quantum" organs. These samples were first released back in 1999. Matt Liquescent <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: Sounds like a lovely big English romantic cathedral organ in a live space ... LOVE all that 8' sound, and the Pedal Bombardes. If it sounds that good in person, I think it's a FINE Anglican organ . Cheers, Bud Colin Mitchell wrote: > Hello, > > As a matter of fact...... > > > http://www.stmaryredcliffe.co.uk/Organ.htm > > Photos, specification and an mp3 to hear. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > > --- "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" > wrote: > > >>> What most >> >>Americans admire these days is something >>approximating to the Arthur >>Harrison organ at St. Mary Redcliffe, Bristol. >> >>Any online sound clips available? >>Dennis Steckley > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > List-Subscribe: > List-Digest: > List-Unsubscribe: > > ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:email@example.com Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
(back) Subject: Re: Stoplist "Competition"--Koppelflote, Coppel, etc. From: "Tom Jones" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:21:25 -0500 All true. You certainly can't judge an organ by its stoplist, not alone, or= =20 maybe not at all. There's a seven-rank Hook & Hastings six miles from here= =20 that's nothing like the stoplist I doodled for Andy, but it's such a=20 beautiful sound that you just bask in the pleasure of playing. You don't=20 miss a thing; you don't even worry about what will work well on it and what= =20 won't. Nevertheless, stoplists are interesting, which is why we enjoy looking at= =20 them even when we can't hear what how the stops sound, and don't know=20 whether, to take your example, a "doppelfl=F6te" really is one or not. Some= of=20 us also enjoy doodling stoplists, the way "normal" people do crosswords. Th= e=20 waters have been muddied to the point of ridiculousness, but it's definite= =20 what many stops are "supposed" to be. These doodlings speak to very few questions of organ design, and I hope=20 nobody proposes a stoplist alone as a comprehensive recipe for a good=20 instrument. It's just interesting to ask what you'd choose if you could hav= e=20 only six stops per division. Doodling is a creative activity, if a modest= =20 one, and restrictions always stimulate creativity. Personally, I think it's next to criminal to call a bourdon a doppelfl=F6te= ; I=20 also think unification should be used sparingly, and when it is used, that= =20 all stops drawn off a single rank should bear the same name, regardless of= =20 position or pitch. Regards, Tom Jones ----- Original Message -----=20 From: <RMB10@aol.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: 27 November, 2004 07:50 Subject: Re: Stoplist "Competition"--Koppelflote, Coppel, etc. > The competition has gotten a little out of hand now...but regardless, a > builder could engrave whatever he/she pleases or whatever the organist= =20 > wishes on > the stopknob or the stop tab or the illuminated rocker and it still won'= t > change what the rank of pipes is. How many organs have we all played=20 > that said > 8' Diapason and it was a chiffy, spitty, thinly scaled rank of=20 > neo-baroque > pseudo "Prinzipal" pipes from the 1960's? Or take for example on the=20 > Swell > division of the organ at my church--the 8' flute is called "Doppelflote"= ..=20 > There > is no doppelflote in the whole organ. It's a big fat hooty stopped woode= n > flute--with ONE mouth. If I had a big trem on it, it could pass as a=20 > Tibia > Minor. Nomenclature and what the rank actually is can be, and often are= =20 > two > polar opposites, thanks to the American organ mills and organists who > didn't/don't know the difference--and don't care to. > > Yes, there are differences between types of stops, but if an organist=20 > isn't > going to recognize the difference between a Doppelflote and a Gedeckt,= =20 > and > many don't care to make the differences between Principals, Prinzipals, > Principaals, and Diapasons, why do we think that they're going to take= =20 > the time to > recognize the difference between=20 > Koppelflote/Coppelflote/Coppel/Spillflote. > It's all about education. We as organists need to be up on this kind of > matter. When discussing with organ builders, we should be able to talk > intelligently with an organ builder, and not just say, I want a Koppel= =20 > Flute. When > designing and organ there is a definite reason as to why you should want= =20 > an Open > Flute at 4 and a Stopped Flute at 8, vs. an Open 8' flute and a Semi=20 > Capped > 4' Flute---is it for sound, for literature, for liturgy? > > When I designed the new organ for my church, I did hours and hours of > research of stoplists, of new organs, historic ones, and existing ones.= =20 > I visited > instruments, I looked at pipe work. I talked to our builder. I talked= =20 > to > our organ technician. I listened to recordings with stoplists in hand= =20 > trying > to pick out stops and see what I though worked or didn't and why. After= =20 > I > sat down and came up with the stoplist, and revised it, (several times!) > Francesco and I worked through it some more, talking about his ideas of= =20 > what I had > and how he thought it would work. > He had a few minor changes, but we stay in contact as he designs shallots > and figures windpressures, etc. > > Designs like this small organ are best left to the professionals. It is > MUCH harder to design a small instrument and make it flexible and=20 > interesting. > We can sit around and dream all day long. But until the room is=20 > acoustically > sucessful, and we know things like windpressure, how much room there is= =20 > on > the chest, our efforts are useless. > > Monty Bennett > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > List-Digest: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > >=20 >
(back) Subject: Re: from an old frump From: "Harry Grove" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:44:04 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: from an old frump "Heavy wind in the Trossachs soon reaches the Fife region!" [snip] Ahhh, yes ! Round the Horne ......... at last, Pipechat reaches towards the pinnacle = of expression. Those tunes of 'Ramblin' Sid Rumpole, the rhymes, the dual-entrandres, ......... and the fact that those on the wrong side of the pond won't understand a word of what we're on about. Bliss ! After all, why let them in on our little secret; you know what they do to plain, respectable words - they give them new and inappropriate meanings; re, boot, trunk, etc; and as for faggot! Well I never ! Ooooh! Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman happy to be a Julian to your Sandy, Colin] I know only two tunes. One them is ''Yankee Doodle'' and the other isn't. Ulysses S. Grant
(back) Subject: The Dm T/F Overdone? [was: Disney Hall Organ] From: "Bill Hauser" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:06:20 -0600 >>...some well-played programs of well-balanced >>music that... might actually be a work that is known >>to the public--and not an overdone, abused warhorse, >>usually associated with horror movies or some sort of >>television commercial... it would further the interest [of organs]. I can only surmise you're speaking of the Bach Dm. In 25 years of = attending recitals, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've heard the Dm on a program [not counting the time, as a teenager, I asked an organist at a pizza & pipes to play it and he played the opening flourish only]. There are several other works I've heard more often than that over the years. I suppose certain works fade into and out of popularity, but I would not = say that piece is overplayed -- not in the past quarter century anyway. It = would be interesting to know whether the piece was programmed more in the early half of the 20th century than the latter, or how the 20th century compared with the 19th century in that regard. Of course, many classical works have 'suffered' popularization: Beethoven's 5th [and piano sonatas], Barber's Adagio, Pachelbel's Canon, Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, Mozart's horn concertos; all have appeared in movies, commercials, cartoons and pop tunes --or worse yet -- disco tunes. LOL No doubt at least a couple of these pieces rarely see the inside of a concert hall anymore because they've been 'given over' to pop culture. As accessible as the Dm is, I think it's a shame that it has such a = negative connotation as to not be programmed. Maybe if it were performed more = often, people would realize the piece is longer than 20 seconds. If, by 'overdone' and 'abused', you mean over-the-top full-32's and en-chamades on every fermata, I'm with ya. I was pleasantly surprised to see Todd Wilson open a recital with it back = in January. The instrument was modest by today's standards, without 32's. His interpretation was fresh, but conservative, and thoughtful and musical. He didn't make the opening SO dramatic as to take the drama out of the remaining 8 minutes of the piece. Rather, he treated the opening as the appetizer it should be. Of course the entire program was thoughtful -- combining the old with the new -- and could be enjoyed by educated music listeners and newcomers alike. His BRIEF talk between pieces was both entertaining and educational, and contributed to a successful program in = my book.
(back) Subject: ""Werkprinzip"": a 20th-century construct From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:30:31 EST What we have learned from the past forty (actually 55) years is that = the "Werkprinzip" and the "Organ Reform" had far less to do with the organ of Bach's time than the rabid, factional publicity and cursory scholarship = would have us believe. In defense of the protagonists, the enthusiastic errors, which turned into a campaign of false information, were a product of their time. The specifications, scaling, and voicing of many of the instruments = Bach knew and played are vastly different, both tonally and theoretically, from = much that was foisted upon us by the Orgelbewegung. What many perceive as a "gegenbewegung" in recent times is actually = the result of having taken a much, much closer look at the organs we attempted = to emulate. Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/ ..
(back) Subject: Thriving on Misinformation From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:01:15 EST Why is it considered trendy and laudable to perpetuate misinformation? Why do we repeat things that we know cannot be correct? Why are organists so apathetic about the instrument they play that = they openly declare that they no longer care whether the instrument is even the = real thing? Is it a crime to want the engraving of the drawknob to have some = bearing on what it controls? We've spent six decades mis-using the name "Octavin," and nobody has = even bothered to look up what it means, so the term is erroneously used in = organs all over this nation. The pathetic (non)-definition in the Stevens book is = completely wrong. The book has been completely discredited, yet is cited = on these lists constantly. That's just one example of a phenomenon that should be a = thing of the past. The average American 4' Koppelflote has so much 1' tone in it that it = can truly interfere with the buildup of the flute choir (as well as the = cornet) in whatever division hosts it. Yet it shows up constantly, even in the = Swell -- where there really isn't any literature that call for it. Has anybody actually LISTENED to what such a stop is and does, or do they demand it = because they've read it in hundreds of stoplists? Then again, it took Americans a century to understand that the = Harmonic Flute is most often called for at 8' on the Great. Why is there such anger and disgust when the discussion turns to = serious organbuilding? Why the contempt for the desire to build a good organ? Just = because most organs are bought at dealerships as if they were cars or dishwashers, we don't have to treat those who wish to do otherwise with = condescension. When are we going to start making distinctions that make sense? I am appalled by the number of posts on many of these chat lists that say, "Well, I'd love a really fine Jurgen Ahrend tracker with suspended = action, or a 1932 Moller like the one I grew up with, even though I'm pushing for = an Airborne-Gillooley DX953 with Akkuphayze Tone Regurgitation software." Are = these options really equal? What is the goal? There is nothing glamorous about ignorance, and it is not an = achievement to be pursued with pride. The purpose of these fora is to learn from each other, not to teach poorly. Sebastian M. Gluck New York City ..
(back) Subject: Re: this organ From: "John F oss" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:57:57 +0200 I have only just got round to reading the posts on the "stop list competition" and I've probably missed some, so bear with me if I am repeating or contradicting what has already been said. I hope that someone = out there has read "21 years of Organ Buiding" and that the organ reform movement was not totally in vain. Congregational singing is much enhanced = by a 4' Principal. not Diapasons 1,2,3,4,5 and a 4' flute. Soggy. Nasty. = Throw it out quick before it contaminates the rest of the fridge. (I am talking about small 2 manual organs!) Now, go back to 1967 and here is the organ in Tooting Methodist Church - such a resonant name - and it has 2 manuals and 16 stops, and cost = =A37,000 - =A370,000 in today's money. It was all new. There wasn't a "previously = owned" pipe in the instrument. Electro-pneumatic action. Detached console. The specification was drawn up by Cecil Clutton, Maurice Forsyth-Grant, Frank Bradbeer and myself after much thought and several pints of beer. GREAT Stopped Diapason 8 Principal 4 Quint 2 2/3 Block Flute 2 Tierce 1 3/5 Mixture IV 19,22,26,29 SWELL Spitzprincipal 8 Chimney Flute 4 Principal 2 Larigot 1 1/3 Trompette 8 PEDAL Subbass 16 Octave 8 Choral Bass 4 Mixture II 19, 22 Rankett 16 COUPLERS Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal Swell to Great Swell to Great Suboctave The logic behind the design is to provide an instrument with two = contrasting choruses, one with a flute foundation based on a 4' Principal and the = other with a Spitzflute/Gemshorn foundation based on a 2' Principal. There is an = element of luxury in the mixture work - but the Tierce, Nazard and Larigot = provide invaluable combinations for Chorale Preludes, the Classical French = repertoire, Trio Sonatas and so on. Two complete contrasting choruses with = a reasonably traditional British "Full Swell" sound are available, and = couple the lot together and you get a nice rich sound. It's excellent for congregational singing, it's in a small church - seats about 250 and has = no resonance whatsoever - and certainly sounded pretty good when I last = played it. To quote Cecil Clutton "The Tooting organ succeeds as a versatile solo = and accompanimental instrument, entirely devoid of heroics." I really must = ask the current owners of "The Organ" for permission to reprint his = article in full! John Foss
(back) Subject: Harrison organs From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:08 -0600 Colin said: Of certain things we can be sure. Arthur Harrison organs are always wonderfully made, beautiful to play and always sound good, and in these respects, they deserve our continued admiration as the work of the premier builder for a whole musical generation. ______________________ Gee, Colin, excellent craftsmanship, wonderful to play, lovely sound.......we can't have organs like that! What is the world coming to! ;>) And I would KILL for an organ like that at St. Mary Redcliffe......talk about ability to inspire! And, yes, I'd still love a smaller Dutch = baroque organ, too! And throw in a big ol' Compton theatre organ for good = measure, complete with the lighted surround! Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines