PipeChat Digest #4936 - Saturday, November 27, 2004
 
Re: The Dm T/F Overdone? [was: Disney Hall Organ]
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: from an old frump
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Lessons and Carols program Dec. 12
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
stop list competition
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation, working on ending it.
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: stop list competition
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation Technology
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
bach chaconne transcription
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation
  by "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation Technology
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: The Dm T/F Overdone? [was: Disney Hall Organ] From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:25:47 -0800 (PST)       Bill Hauser <bill.hauser@cox.net> wrote:     "If, by 'overdone' and 'abused', you mean over-the-top full-32's and en-chamades on every fermata, I'm with ya."   That's EXACTLY how I heard someone play it at an All-Bach recital in = Seattle once. It was indeed very...interesting. Many sat wondering..."why = so much?!" I was one of those many. The 32's for the opening statement, = without chamades on manuals, might, MIGHT, be ok.   There are just many more pieces by Bach that are better than the Dm. Yes I = learned it because it was a good introduction to things, and it's pretty = much required at times.   As Monty mentioned in his original post, the programming at Disney still = seems to be "for organists". Not all of the programs, but many.For someone = who is brand new to the organ, "Ad Nos" might be a bit too much.   There's a lot of stuff thats so beautiful but not programed much. The = Mulet Carrilon-Sortie, Dupre Cortege-Litainie, the Bach F major Toccata, = and others would bring thrills to Disney listeners.   Desiree'     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
(back) Subject: Re: from an old frump From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:59:02 -0500   On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:18:29 -0800, Fran Walker wrote > OK, you guys, go ahead, call me an old frump, Goody-two-shoes, > whatever you want. But I am offended by "suck" as in: > > From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:41:48 -0600 > AND: > From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> > > > Andy said, "Tracker organs suck!" > > > > No, Reed organs suck. > > I hear the word "suck" enough in the "outside world" - now I have to > read it PipeChat? I would truly appreciate all efforts to avoid > offensive language in PipeChat. > > Sincerely, > Fran Walker   That was me. I apologize. Andy   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:11:56 EST   >Why is it considered trendy and laudable to perpetuate misinformation? Because it's easier than doing the true research necessary to find out the = facts. It's easier to restate misinformation that has been heard ad = infinitum (and it's also much more fun to add to the rumor mill!) than it is to actually pick up a book, read (WOW, what a concept!), relay the facts; or = perhaps go to the internet do some research and do some online searching, which requires some more indepth searching, because to find the truth on the = 'net, one has to look deeper--because, as we all know, there are all sorts of half = truths perpetuated in cyberspace! The concept of a person actually using their brain has been lost. = America has been "dumbed down" and these days students expect the teachers and = their parents to do their work for them. No one knows how to think or do = research anymore. It's a lost art/skill. > We've spent six decades mis-using the name "Octavin," and nobody has = even >bothered to look up what it means, so the term is erroneously used in organs >all over this nation. The pathetic (non)-definition in the Stevens book = is >completely wrong. The book has been completely discredited, yet is cited = on these >lists constantly. That's just one example of a phenomenon that should be = a >thing of the past.   This is not the only stop that has been erroneously used. Look at how = many Trompettes, Trompetes, Hautbois, Oboes, Fagotts, etc., litter the American = countryside, not to mention the foundation stops of Principal, Diapason, Prinzipal, Oktave, and the like, that have no bearing on the name. Don't = even get me started on the Flutes out there. Organ mills who didn't give a darn = about what they slapped into churches and organists who didn't know better let this kind of thing happen. I still fail to understand why organists have allowed organ builders to = get away with their sloppy tonal work and backassward tonal design. One of my = friends plays an organ where the 8' Viole and Celeste AND the 8' Hautbois = are in the CHOIR, but the 8' Gemshorn and Celeste are in the Swell. Clearly in =   violation of any historic school of organ building, but yet, a large = American builder put this in just a few years ago and proudly displays this organ = on their website. Having the Hautbois on the Choir and the 8' Trompette on = the Swell makes playing French music quite difficult, plus it makes playing = English music backwards, too. The organ company designed this instrument and the previous organist accepted it. Lack of education... I think that a pipe organ should always be the first choice and then we should go from there. Ethical digital salespeople also feel the same way. I have met and = worked with a couple who feel the same way, however, they were trained = organists. They knew better and even the way they installed the instruments was = different. They didn't act like used car salesmen. There are a few out there who = do care about the pipe organ and would rather not replace a pipe organ = unless it's the only option left. The attitude taken by some organists, though, = that they have to have all these gizmos and gadgets or else they can't play is =   purely immature. I've said it before...yes, they are great to have, and yes, I sure do miss = not having multiple memories, etc., HOWEVER, I was trained to get by = without them. When a person can not make music without all their gadgets, a = problem surfaces. Musicality or musicianship is lacking, and the gadgets and = gizmos and multiple memories and 18 levels of crescendi and quad tuttis and 25 general pistons hide that fact. By pressing buttons and changing sounds, = and manipulating lights and adding the 32' Contre Bombarde and the Celestial = Chamade division at 16, 8, 4, they've wowed the audience, reduced the little old ladies to tears, and done nothing but make a lot of noise, but no = music--so, all the mistakes are hidden, uneven rhythms are glossed over, and the people applaud because the program is finished and they can get on the the = buffet reception and eat the food and drink the punch. Sebastian is correct that ignorance is not glamorous. We need to foster development between each other here. I think it's great that we have = some highly talented people among us--from organbuilders, to voicers, to = technicians, to organists. Dialogues between us all can only help to further = everyone's knowledge of the instrument that we all love. Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Lessons and Carols program Dec. 12 From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:21:07 -0800 (PST)   Hi Lessons and Carols Program Immanuel UCC Evergreen Pk, IL Dec. 12 2004 4:00 PM Carols TBA. The Choral/Organ music is as follows. Prelude Prelude in G Major 541-A Bach A Boy is Born Britten Go Tell It on the Mountain arr. Michael Thorn Gloria In Excelsis Deo Vivaldi Carol of the Bells Alleluia Rejoice arr. Hughes While By My Sheep anon/Echo Carol arr. Jugnst Still Still Still arr. Rutter Postlude Prelude in C Major 545-A Bach Some noels may be interspersed. Don't know yet. TDH   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page =96 Try My Yahoo!
(back) Subject: stop list competition From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:33:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)   Hi List,=0D =0D The J.W. Steere Organ at the Congregational Church, Clinton, CT=0D =0D 2 manuals and pedal, the whole organ is enclosed in one box except for the Great Diapason and Pedal Bourdon. The Church is a typical meeting ho= use with carpet. I'd say it seats 400-500. No reverb to speak of, but the organ is lovely, and most successful.=0D =0D Great=0D =0D 8' Diapason=0D 8' Melodia=0D 8' Dulciana=0D 4' Octave=0D =0D Swell=0D =0D 16' Lieblich Gedeckt=0D 8' Diapason=0D 8' Gedeckt=0D 8' Salicional=0D 8' Aeoline=0D 4' Flute (Fat metal)=0D 8' Oboe=0D =0D Pedal=0D =0D 16' Bourdon=0D 16' Lieblich Gedeckt=0D =0D I've forgotten which stops borrow to the pedal at 8' pitch, I'd say probably the Bourdon and Diapason on the Great. What a terrific small or= gan to sing along with!=0D =0D - Nate
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:57:18 -0500     On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:01:15 EST TubaMagna@aol.com writes:   > Why is it considered trendy and laudable to perpetuate misinformation? > Why do we repeat things that we know cannot be correct?       SEBASTIAN:   In three words the answer would be "FALSE AUTHORITY SYNDROME"   People like to be perceived as being informed. Upon reading something that sounds plausible, they will repeat it, taking credit through an act of nondisclosure. Others will assume authority on the part of the repeater, merely because they happened to agree with him on some other topic.   The U.S. Air Force highlights the concept of False Authority Syndrome in "Tongue & Quill", their official publication on effective writing:   Definition: In a word... ultracrepidarian: (n., adj.) a person who gives opinions beyond his scope of knowledge. "Nonexpert opinion or assumed authority -- Don't be swayed (or try to sway someone else) based on the opinion of an unqualified authority. The Air Force is chockfull of people who, because of their position or authority in one field, are quoted on subjects in other fields for which they have limited or no experience."   (As this Air Force publication notes, False Authority Syndrome can attack people in all fields of expertise.)     JIM
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation, working on ending it. From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:02:59 -0800 (PST)       RMB10@aol.com wrote: "Dialogues between us all can only help to further everyone's knowledge of the instrument that we all love."   This is very true. Sebastian mentioned a book by Stephens that has been = discredited. I have never heard of this book. What texts are out there = that are indeed credible on stop design/nomenclature?   I will be the first to admit, I dont know where "octavin" originated. To = know would be nice...very nice. But where is the die-hard source for the = information? There's the book by Klotz. If I read it, would I be wasting = my time? What other texts are there?   Many of us aspiring organists want to know. But, it takes that = communication that Monty mentioned. It was from him that I recieved the = summons to go read the survey text by Corliss Arnold. Never had anyone = sent me to do such, or told me that it would be worth reading. Because of = that, I now know that the Orgelbuchlein was actually meant to be 164 = arrangements of 161 chorales on 92 sheets of paper prior to Cothen. If not = summoned by someone, I probably would not have touched the book.   Reverting to what was said earlier in Monty's post, yes students often = want their teachers to do the work for...us. (COLLECTIVELY NOT = PERSONALLY!). Maybe what some organ students are looking for is guidance. = Tell us where or what to go read and we will do it. An example might very = well be that book that was mentioned by Sebastian, written by Stevens. If = I did not hear from an organbuilder himself that this book has been = discredited, it might have been read and taken as truth. So, now, theres = that guidance that maybe another text on building would be worth a = students time.   TDH     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: stop list competition From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:07:19 -0500   That (the JW Steere) reminds me... I used to practice on an 1894 GS Hutchings in Randolph VT that has precisely 6 stops on each of the two manuals, and it is very good at leading singing. It was voiced and scaled =   on the tubby side, the great upperwork really should be bolder (it was = built for a different, now gone, room than it is now in). The same stoplist = would be great for a larger room with the right scaling and voicing. In fact, I've heard some 4-rank principal choruses like the one shown here where I could almost swear there was a mixture, though there wasn't. The stoplist =   was (and still is) thus:   Great: 8' Open Diapason 8' Melodia 8' Dolcissimo (or something... a dulciana basically) 4' Octave 2 2/3' Quinte 2' Fifteenth or Superoctave or whatever it was called   Swell: 16' Bourdon (TC) 8' Stopped Diapason 8' Salicional (with its own basses if I remember correctly) 4' Violina 4' Harm Flute 8' Bassoon/Oboe (full compass) (may be named Hautbois, can't remember)   Pedal: 16' Subbass 8' Open Wood (actual name is flote, or something)   I think this is as close to ideal as you can get for 12 manual stops in a dry accoustic with no borrows or extensions. If you must have a trumpet instead of the oboe, fine. :) One could certainly quibble a little bit. = I was just thinking it would nice to replace the 16' Bourdon with an 8' Principal, but then I remembered how nice it was to combine the 16' = Bourdon with the 4' Harm Flute and play an octave up for a beautiful 8, 2 sound. = So whatever you give, you have to take something. In the case in question here, the swap would probably be worthwhile since leading hymns will be a stretch for it, and a real diapason in the swell would aid this more than = a 16' bourdon would.   I used to think there was nothing on the great to accompany the oboe = with... the melodia was too loud and the dolcissimo too soft. Then I found out = this was only true from the organ bench. The melodia is right by the organists =   head, while the oboe is in the back of the swell box way up high. In the church, the balance is perfect (with melodia accompanying the oboe).   Andy   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation Technology From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:32:14 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   A man sits in a large sealed booth, cut off from the outside world, watching a video screen as he fiddles about with controls; eventually declaring, "This is so realistic!"   "Yes," says the salesman to his left. "You've programmed it brilliantly, and I can't tell the difference!"   They both leave the booth brimming with enthusiasm, whereupon an elderly gentleman enters the booth and sits before the screen, as the salesman re-enters to join him.   The old man switches on, plays with the controls, and says,"This is nothing like anything I've ever handled before!"   "But it's the latest thing!" The salesman whimpers, as the old man wrestles with the controls."We tried to copy the sensory inputs exactly."   "Well, that may be so, but it's a very poor imitation," the old man declares.   "But...but...everyone says it feels just like a Boeing 747," the salesman blusters.   The old man switches off the simulator and smiles, "Ah! That's why it feels so bad....you copied a bus, not a proper aeroplane!"   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o     In this little story, Sebastian Gluck is like the old man, who knows all about "proper" flying, and about cold rivets rather than pop-rivets: wood and canvas rather than computer-controlled plasma cut sheet alloys.   In a "traditional" world such as organ-building, it is natural that a craftsman should always come down on the side of what it proper, authentic and responsive.   However, as we witness the fruits of the digital age, those who have become familiar with organs which more resemble Boeing 747's rather than a Tiger Moth, are impressed by what has been achieved in the simulation department. Does this mean however, that we must always travel by Tiger Moth to experience flight as it "should be?"   Can we not step aboard the Boeing 747 and admire the technology which created it?   It is no good standing on a beach, commanding the tide to turn back, as King Canute found out.   If I, and others, have enjoyed playing a number of digital organs, and been captivated by the technology and the improvements wrought over the past 30 years or so, does this mean that we are fools?   Like the old man who flew the Tiger Moth, I would know the difference blind-fold, for I have flown some of the very finest old organs in the world.....and do they FLY!!   I find it rather sad when I am boxed into a corner and forced to make value judgements purely on the basis of what I know....which doesn't amount to very much, frankly speaking. At least I know how to give credit where credit is due, and I remain in awe of the technology which can produce organ simulation to the quality of Trinity Church, NY, and which I would love to hear and play in the flesh.   Good organ-builders build solid, reliable, comfortable instruments which do their job very adequately. Very good organ builders need something more.....knowledge, scholarship, a fine ear and attention to detail....in fact, everything that the builders of the best modern digital instruments exhibit. They didn't get there by cutting corners and slick salesmanship. Instead, they got there because they LISTENED to what people had to say and acted upon it.   An organ-builder's reputation is built on what he creates, and not by putting down the genuine musical aims of others. At best, it could be interpreted as self aggrandizement, and at worst, as self-destructive.   Only Fr Willis could do that and get away with it!   I hope Sebastian (and others) do not regard this as a personal attack. It is not meant to be. I feel sure that we are all often suitably impressed by some of his remarkable contributions to pipechat, but I also know that resorting to blanket insults can only diminish his reputation.   But who am I to criticise? I love my little Koppel Flute!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > Why is it considered trendy and laudable to > perpetuate misinformation? > Why do we repeat things that we know cannot be > correct? > Why are organists so apathetic about the > instrument they play (etc etc.......)     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com    
(back) Subject: bach chaconne transcription From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:01:34 EST   does anybody know of an organ transcription of bach's chaconne in d minor, =   the one from the partita for unaccompanied violin? i heard part of a = recording of it played on organ, but don't remember whose transcription it was. i = think it was transcribed roughly around 1898. can anyone help?   scot in spokane  
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation From: "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:10:25 -0500   Just to clarify, isn't the book Sebastian refers to "Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops" by Stevens Irwin--i.e. the Irwin book (Stevens being his = first name)? I'm not nitpicking; people just want to know which book is being discussed. And Irwin's Octavin definition is, as Sebastian says, = "completely wrong."   Regards, Tom Jones   > We've spent six decades mis-using the name "Octavin," and nobody has > even > bothered to look up what it means, so the term is erroneously used in > organs > all over this nation. The pathetic (non)-definition in the Stevens book = is > completely wrong. The book has been completely discredited, yet is cited =   > on these > lists constantly. That's just one example of a phenomenon that should be = a > thing of the past.    
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation Technology From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:25:36 -0500   Woah! This came out of nowhere! What does this have to do with the topic =   at hand, and what does the analogy have to do with Seb Gluck or organs? I =   thought we were talking about misnamed organ voices? Are you actually saying that electronic organs have surpassed pipe organs in the same way that the 747 has surpassed a sopwith? I have not heard even the boldest electronic organ salesman claim that. The boldest claim I've heard before =   now is that electronic organs are so close to the real thing that most people can't tell the difference.   The analogy has nothing to do with organs for at least the following = reasons:   A 747 is designed to carry lots of people over the ocean. The Sopwith is designed to shoot down similar vintage fighter aircraft. The simulator is =   designed to train pilots. What on earth do any of these 3 machines have = to do with each other? Two of them fly, one does not. The 747 carries = people across the ocean; I'd like to see the simulator do that.   You had to bring in a person who has never flown before to think the simulator was any good! Holy cow! When I was 8 and never heard a pipe organ before I thought an electronic organ I played with sounded pretty cool. But all I knew how to play was the melody of twinkle twinkle little =   star.   If you look at Gluck's website I don't think you'll find any Sopwith = Camels on there (which pipe organs do you consider Sopwiths? Silbermann? I suppose you could make a case for that. The Mormon Tabernacle organ? = This might be your 747... and it uses pipes. When has Seb claimed that organ progress ended in the 1700's? Or 1600's? Or are you saying that the = Mormon Tabernacle organ and other modern instruments are Sopwith Camel's compared =   to the best electronic organs of today? How about the latest symphonic or =   american classic or other organs being built with MIDI augmentation and whatever other bells and whistles Sopwith Camels never had? I'm a little confused.   In your defense, Seb was getting a little provocative, too, but this is = over the top in absurdity! You might do better to use logic.   For example, you could argue that although electronic organs are not as = good as pipe organs, the best ones come very close (some claim... I'm not sure = I agree, but I haven't heard the latest or best ones) and are considerably cheaper, at least in the short run, and possibly in the long run (I'm less =   sure of the latter, but whatever), and so, in your humble opinion, the cost/benefit analysis comes out in favor of the electronic. I would disagree with you, and we could happily agree to disagree. Of course, = then we'd have little to argue about, which isn't much fun. ;)   Andy       On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:32:14 -0800 (PST), Colin Mitchell wrote > Hello, > > A man sits in a large sealed booth, cut off from the > outside world, watching a video screen as he fiddles > about with controls; eventually declaring, "This is so > realistic!" > > "Yes," says the salesman to his left. "You've > programmed it brilliantly, and I can't tell the > difference!" > > They both leave the booth brimming with enthusiasm, > whereupon an elderly gentleman enters the booth and > sits before the screen, as the salesman re-enters to > join him. > > The old man switches on, plays with the controls, and > says,"This is nothing like anything I've ever handled > before!" > > "But it's the latest thing!" The salesman whimpers, as > the old man wrestles with the controls."We tried to > copy the sensory inputs exactly." > > "Well, that may be so, but it's a very poor > imitation," the old man declares. > > "But...but...everyone says it feels just like a Boeing > 747," the salesman blusters. > > The old man switches off the simulator and smiles, > "Ah! That's why it feels so bad....you copied a bus, > not a proper aeroplane!" > > -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o > > In this little story, Sebastian Gluck is like the old > man, who knows all about "proper" flying, and about > cold rivets rather than pop-rivets: wood and canvas > rather than computer-controlled plasma cut sheet > alloys. > > In a "traditional" world such as organ-building, it is > natural that a craftsman should always come down on > the side of what it proper, authentic and responsive. > > However, as we witness the fruits of the digital age, > those who have become familiar with organs which more > resemble Boeing 747's rather than a Tiger Moth, are > impressed by what has been achieved in the simulation > department. Does this mean however, that we must > always travel by Tiger Moth to experience flight as it > "should be?" > > Can we not step aboard the Boeing 747 and admire the > technology which created it? > > It is no good standing on a beach, commanding the tide > to turn back, as King Canute found out. > > If I, and others, have enjoyed playing a number of > digital organs, and been captivated by the technology > and the improvements wrought over the past 30 years or > so, does this mean that we are fools? > > Like the old man who flew the Tiger Moth, I would know > the difference blind-fold, for I have flown some of > the very finest old organs in the world.....and do > they FLY!! > > I find it rather sad when I am boxed into a corner and > forced to make value judgements purely on the basis of > what I know....which doesn't amount to very much, > frankly speaking. At least I know how to give credit > where credit is due, and I remain in awe of the > technology which can produce organ simulation to the > quality of Trinity Church, NY, and which I would love > to hear and play in the flesh. > > Good organ-builders build solid, reliable, comfortable > instruments which do their job very adequately. Very > good organ builders need something more.....knowledge, > scholarship, a fine ear and attention to detail....in > fact, everything that the builders of the best modern > digital instruments exhibit. They didn't get there by > cutting corners and slick salesmanship. Instead, they > got there because they LISTENED to what people had to > say and acted upon it. > > An organ-builder's reputation is built on what he > creates, and not by putting down the genuine musical > aims of others. At best, it could be interpreted as > self aggrandizement, and at worst, as > self-destructive. > > Only Fr Willis could do that and get away with it! > > I hope Sebastian (and others) do not regard this as a > personal attack. It is not meant to be. I feel sure > that we are all often suitably impressed by some of > his remarkable contributions to pipechat, but I also > know that resorting to blanket insults can only > diminish his reputation. > > But who am I to criticise? I love my little Koppel > Flute! > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: > > > Why is it considered trendy and laudable to > > perpetuate misinformation? > > Why do we repeat things that we know cannot be > > correct? > > Why are organists so apathetic about the > > instrument they play (etc etc.......) >   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com