PipeChat Digest #4938 - Sunday, November 28, 2004
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: from an old frump
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: from an old frump
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Daniel Fleuret
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: [trackersNpipes] Daniel Fleuret
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: Thriving on Misinformation
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: this organ
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: the simulator
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>

(back) Subject: Re: ADVENT I: HOLY ROSARY, MEMPHIS (x post) From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:11:52 EST   Scott,   Nice to see Dr. Titcomb's works being done.   Advent I at The Church of St. John the Evangelist, Bowdoin St., Boston:   Prelude "Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland"--Pachelbel The Great Litany in Procession (chanted) Ps. 122: Mode I Alleluia and Verse, Mode I Anthem at the Offertory "E'en So, Lord Jesus, Quickly Come"--Paul Manz Offertory Hymn: "Savior of the nations come!" Post-communion Hymn: "O heavenly Word" Postlude: "Herr Christ, der einig Gottes Sohn"--J.C. Bach   Ordinary of the Mass: "Mass in C" by Everett Titcomb, arranged for congregational participation with choir by William G. Harris.   Pax, Bill H. SJE, Boston  
(back) Subject: Re: from an old frump From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:19:28 -0600   And if my memory from 40+ years is still on target, Grant said this (I = know only two tunes; one them is ''Yankee Doodle'' and the other one isn't) to Charles Ives's father.   Bob Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com> To: 'PipeChat' <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: RE: from an old frump .. By the way, the other tune Grant knew was "When a body meets a body > coming through the rye . . .," but he couldn't remember all the words. > > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Harry Grove > > I know only two tunes. One them is ''Yankee Doodle'' and the other > isn't. > Ulysses S. Grant    
(back) Subject: Re: from an old frump From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:33:43 EST   Glenda,   The only tunes I know by memory are "Dixie", "Yankee Doodle" and "Comin' thru' the Rye". Everything else I have to practice.   Words I know are "Roamin' in the Gloamin'" and "Fou the Noo" as sung by = Harry Lauder, and I can sing them, too.   Why memorize when you can consult a book or a Tainter and Bell Cylinder record?   Running for cover,     Bill H., Boston   "Roamin' in the gloamin', on the bonnie banks o' Clyde; roamin' in the gloamin' with me lassie by me side; when the sun has gone to rest, that's = the time that I love best, ooo it's lovely roamin' in the gloooooo-min'" (aha-ha-ha-ha-ha, oond I ain't kiddin' ye.)  
(back) Subject: Daniel Fleuret From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:38:17 -0800   In my research for my Organ Symphonie book, I have come across the name of Daniel Fleuret, who has supposedly written an organ symphonie ca. early 1900s.   I have found an Italian reprint of his music, but it does not include the Symphonie...   Can anyone direct me?   Thanks in advance,   Jonathan Orwig  
(back) Subject: Re: [trackersNpipes] Daniel Fleuret From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:30:44 -0800   <chuckle>   I _have_ John's book.... actually had lunch with him about 2 weeks ago   I have been on the UMP website - no Fleuret   _that_ is why I asked here!   :-)   Jonathan   AgnesRoseA@aol.com wrote:   > > In a message dated 27/11/04 21:38:48, giwro@adelphia.net writes: > > >> In my research for my Organ Symphonie book, I have come across >> the name of Daniel Fleuret, who has supposedly written an organ = symphonie >> ca. early 1900s. >> >> I have found an Italian reprint of his music, but it does not include >> the Symphonie... > > > Hi, Jonathan - > > According to John Henderson's "Directory of Composers for the Organ" > (you really MUST invest in the next edition of this valuable book, due > out shortly after the New Year) Eug=E8ne Albin Daniel Fleuret > (1869-1915) was organist of the Church of La Redemption in Lyon, > France as well as professor of organ at the Lyon Conservatoire. His > Symphonie is opus 30, written in 1910, and available from United Music > Publishers, London, England. > > Cheers, > Agnes Armstrong      
(back) Subject: Re: Thriving on Misinformation From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:04:11 -0600   Hello, Seb:   You wrote:   > Why is it considered trendy and laudable to perpetuate misinformation? > Why do we repeat things that we know cannot be correct? > Why are organists so apathetic about the instrument . . . .   Thank you. We needed that.   Now, how do we find the discipline to find the truth that you have to offer, . . . .as sitting at the feet of a master of the craft? Is it also true that if we dig into the craft that you know, we will also build organs that sound like those in your head? If that good or bad? . . . . or somewhere in between or in another direction?   While it is true that the forum for theorectical excellence and practice may reside in the heads of only a relative few organ builders in the United States (probably due to declining sales to support the men who need to know), what is the best source of knowledge for those of us who cannot or will not sit at the feet of those who seem to excell in the craft?   While we openly debate pro and con the issues that come before us on PipeChat, is it really "bad" that we often push the limits of tradition. Exploration of the fringes and sounding the depths of the marginal areas may stretch our minds into areas that open new possibilities not heretofore tried successfully.   Adherence to one style of the past is not truly advancing the state of the art. I find it exciting to learn how to make an organ work when the acoustics are set against us. If we have soup served and a fork with which to eat, we need some good sops to get it done. Whether you call that innovation or deviation from norm (what should be), it allows methods to be positively applied that circumvent the negatives of a dead room. Perhaps, that should be our creative effort.   I like it when you read through the chaff and give us good stuff to chew on. Keep it even; we can hear better that way.   Appreciativley, F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: this organ From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:53:39 -0800     ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "John F oss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>   >I have only just got round to reading the posts on the "stop list=20 >competition" and I've probably missed some, so bear with me if I am=20 >repeating or contradicting what has already been said. I hope that someone= =20 >out there has read "21 years of Organ Buiding" and that the organ reform= =20 >movement was not totally in vain. Congregational singing is much enhanced= =20 >by a 4' Principal. not Diapasons 1,2,3,4,5 and a 4' flute. Soggy. Nasty. >= =20 >Now, go back to 1967 and here is the organ in Tooting Methodist Church -= =20 >such a resonant name - and it has 2 manuals and 16 stops, and cost =A37,00= 0 -=20 >=A370,000 in today's money. > PEDAL > Subbass 16 > Octave 8 > Choral Bass 4 > Mixture II 19, 22 > Rankett 16   I never yet met a pedal mixture that helps congregational singing, and=20 clearly it's the most dispensable stop in the 16, the more so as the Great= =20 has to be coupled to the pedal for the 12,15 part of the chorus.   As a matter of fact, I propose a rule of thumb: in any scheme of any size= =20 ever devised or built, if a stop has to go, look no further than (the, a)= =20 pedal mixture. On the II/33 I play, I'd gladly sacrifice it for dozens of= =20 other possibilities.   MAF   >  
(back) Subject: Re: the simulator From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:26:22 +0200   It seems logical to me - basically an avid pipe organ supporter, high quality tracker for first choice but very happy with a good E P action - = to incorporate the best of the new with the best of the old. Some stops seems =   to work OK on electronics - notably salicionals and celestes, some flutes, =   clarinets and, depending on the circumstances, chorus reeds, fanfare trumpets and tubas. Also 16' pedal violones and open metal type stops, = pedal reeds, 32' string flues and reeds, but not Diapasons or Principals nor 16 pedal Bourdons. I'm not quite sure why, but an electronic Pedal 16' = Bourdon always seems to start with a bump, and digital Diapason choruses always betray their origins. Electronic Mixtures often work OK, though. Perhaps = the harmonics are out of the human hearing range, though these surely = contribute to the sound we actually hear. It's like the blend of a venerable Scottish =   Malt or fine wine. We can't say what it is exactly that makes their = flavours outstanding, but we know it's there. My benchmark on a good wine is "Does = it still taste good at the end of the bottle?", and the same applies to our other senses, such as our ears. Does it still sound good after 30 minutes? = I think that the subtle harmonic development of Principals requires a more complex model and greater resources than electronic organs offer.The sound =   is the result of many millions of different minute partials, which can = only be realistically found in nature. The other stops mentioned above have a more clearly defined upper harmonic content, and are easier to produce = with fewer partials. So you can have a good organ incorporating at least two independent pipe choruses, and digital ethereal celestes, Trumpets and Tubas and 32' pedal reeds so beloved by most at a resonable price. Not cheap. Reasonable. If funds are unlimited go for the top, but they rarely are. Which brings us back to where we started and from, and an issue we have argued vigorously many times. But this is inevitable, given the nature of man and the beast, John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/