PipeChat Digest #4941 - Monday, November 29, 2004
 
Advent I: First United Lutheran of Hammond, IN
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Advent Wreath Accident
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
mixtures
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Mixtures
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
broken record, here
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: A multi facited question
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
RE: broken record, here
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Advent Wreath Accident
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: Texts on organ design...which are credible?
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: Advent Wreath Accident
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: this organ
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: A Little Humor at church this morning
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: A Little Humor at church this morning
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: Texts on organ design...which are credible?
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Great Composers
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
RE: Great Composers
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: Advent I: First United Lutheran of Hammond, IN From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:36:54 -0600   Advent I   The Rev. Dr. Bassam J. Abdallah, Pastor and Presiding Minister Beau Surratt, Director of Music and Organist Liturgy- LBW Setting I     Prelude- "Wachet Auf" J.S. Bach   Lighting of the Advent Candle- "We Light the Candle" A. Steven Taranto   Processional Hymn- "Rejoice, Rejoice Believers" Haf trones lampa fardig Introduction by Paul Manz   Hymn of the Day- "Wake! Awake for Night is Flying" WACHET AUF Introduction by Wayne Wold   Offertory- "How Lovely Are Thy Dwellings" Brahms/ arr. Nastelin Piano/Organ Duet   Distribution Hymns- "My Lord What A Morning" "The King Shall Come When Morning Dawns" CONSOLATION "My Lord What A Morning" arr. Richard Billingham   Recessional Hymn- "Lo, He Comes With Clouds Descending" HELMSLEY     Postlude- "Rhapsody on HELMSLEY" William Lloyd Weber     Blessings, Beau Surratt Director of Music and Organist First United Lutheran Church, ELCA 6705 Hohman Ave. Hammond, IN 46324      
(back) Subject: Advent Wreath Accident From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:41:00 -0600   Hi All! Just wanted to tell you about a strange thing that happened to me this morning in church to give you a chuckle on this First Sunday of Advent. We have an advent wreath that hangs from the ceiling via a pulley on the lectern side of our church. The wreath was lowered so that it could be lighted after the announcements. I had to make an announcement about some music that was to be sung during the service. I managed to walk to the left of the wreath when I went to the lectern to make the announcement BUT, when I left to go back to the organ, I RAN HEAD FIRST INTO THE METAL ADVENT WREATH! Fortunately I didn't knock anything off nor did anyone laugh out loud, however I do have a rather nasty bump and a little scratch on my forehead.   I wonder if this qualifies for workman's comp????     Blessings, Beau Surratt Director of Music and Organist First United Lutheran Church, ELCA 6705 Hohman Ave. Hammond, IN 46324      
(back) Subject: mixtures From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:55:17 -0800   The point about mixtures, as with every other voice on the organ is voicing, scaling, composition, pipe construction, alloy used, tuning method, etc. Making and voicing mixtures is a high art right up there with reed voicing, flue voicing, etc.   Pitch is of less consequence than the ROOM and the BREAKS. No, I didn't say that quite right. Pitch DOES matter, but what the ROOM does to the sound, as Colin pointed out, is paramount. A mixture that starts high but descends fairly quickly can still add "gravitas" to the treble end of the keyboard.   We very quickly discovered that our new church needed quite a bit of bass and mid-range, and relatively little on the high end. Since the instrument at the time was an electronic, it was fairly easy to adjust accordingly.   I don't find a Nineteenth/Twenty-Second Mixture II objectionable on a small organ, as long as there's a (12th and) Fifteenth, but I'd probably rather have the ranks on two knobs, and have them break back in the Italian manner. There's really not a whole lot of point in building anything above 2' top C ... it's hard to tune, and very few people can hear it.   I've never found too much use for a Pedal Rauschquinte II (2 2/3' - 2') .... I was taught that if there was a Pedal mixture, it should be the same number of ranks as the Great mixture, and either the same pitch (1 1/3', assuming a Great without a Double Diapason), or 2 2/3' if the Pedal was based on a 32' Double Diapason, but in any case it should be arranged so that the unison, rather than the quint, is on top, since pedal mixtures don't normally break.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: Mixtures From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:58:19 +1300   >In a large European church, which houses for example, a Schnitger organ, the reason for the abundance of high-pitched Mixtures is that of maintaining balance, because the lower frequencies get amplified by the huge space.   I bow to your much-travelled and knowledgeable self, Colin, but I don't think you are quite right here. Many Schnitger organs were/are in quite smallish wooden buildings, or rather, stone with wooden ceilings, that are as dead acoustically as the average 15thC or earlier stone parish church = in English villages and small towns. Heavens, in some there wasn't even room for an 8ft Principal so Schnitger had to be content with putting in a = strong Twelfth to drop an 8ft Resultant.   I would agree, though, that longer sound waves have more energy and tend = to be greatly enhanced by a large reverberant space.   Scaling is, for many organ builders, such a tricky matter. It sounds paradoxical, and also against commonsense, to say that a smaller and more dead building needs bigger scaling and higher wind pressure, but I've = often seen this. We have an old wooden church here in Wellington, Old St Paul's, that seats about 450 to 500 people. It has a 2m tracker from about 20 = years ago - and it's on well-below-3"-pressure and has very moderate scaling. = The organ is harsh, nasty and totally wrong for the building. Though admitting that is a grave fault of the voicing, I also believe it would have been = much better to have put the organ on 3"+ pressure, perhaps even 3.5", and to = have based the whole thing on a 6"-at-CC Diapason, with wide mouth and low cut-up. Yes (says me, laughing) that's Lewis yet again, exactly as the = first organ was in this building from the 1870s.   Ross    
(back) Subject: broken record, here From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:15:50 -0800   Just so, Ross.   GOOD 19th century American and British builders KNEW how to deal with dry rooms because they had to DEAL with dry rooms. It isn't rocket science ... strength the bass and the mid-range, rein in the trebles, and voice the 8-4-2 stops so that they have proper harmonic development and don't NEED many (if any) mixtures.   I remember playing a Cole and Woodbury (Woodberry?) somewhere in Connecticut in an RC Church (Sacred Heart?) that was in the process of being restored. Not much was playing ... a few Swell stops and the Great 8' Open Diapason ... but that Great Open was truly the "sound of a great amen." (chuckle). The organist wisely played things that could be played on it alone for most of the voluntaries, and it SANG. After Mass, when we went up to the gallery to see the organ and chat with the organist, I said to a friend who was with me,   "WHY can't American builders TODAY build Open Diapasons like THAT?"   He didn't have an answer.   Of course, there are a number of answers ... tracker action, slider chests, moderate (but not low) wind-pressure ... I think I remember the organ being on 3 1/2 or 3 3/4 inches water column ... generous scaling, absolutely optimum placement, and in this case, stellar acoustics; a single huge reservoir, no winkers. I wonder if those old RC organs don't suffer from wind turbulence as much because the blowers are usually two floors below, in the basement. Still, I COULD tell a difference when it was hand-pumped. The wind wasn't SHAKY, but it was certainly more ALIVE.   In the intervening years, I HAVE heard a few modern examples that APPROACHED that noble Diapason, but not many.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: A multi facited question From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:27:00 -0500     Of course, John is actually correct. My fault, was in taking the literal sense of "Victorian" which would go all the way back to 1837.       On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:13:06 -0600 "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> writes: I think Jim and I are talking about slightly different periods here.   Jim is talking of the period before c. 1850, when short compass swells were the norm. Certainly at this point it was normal for the Swell to stop at, say, Tenor F, and for there to be a "Choir Bass" cosisting of a stop or two that went all the way to the bottom of the keyboard. Thus a "Stopped Diapason Bass" might serve as the bass for the Open Diapason, Stopped Diapason and Dulciana. Later in the century the tendency was to "groove" the 8 ft. stops together, so that the Stopped Diapason automatically played the Dulciana, etc. Jim is certainly correct about this.   I was really talking about a later period, say, on an 1885 Roosevelt. Here the 16 ft. Bourdon or 8 ft. Oboe might have a separate knob for the lowest octave. This was, I would still claim, so that this octave could be used separately on the pedal.
(back) Subject: RE: broken record, here From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:43:59 +1300   >"WHY can't American builders TODAY build Open Diapasons like THAT?"   I think is, rather, "Why don't they want to?" I've heard some modern Diapasons that are truly noble and uplifting.   [big snip]   >In the intervening years, I HAVE heard a few modern examples that APPROACHED that noble Diapason, but not many.   We have an organ in a "dead" church here seating perhaps 140 people at = most. The organ is from about 1900 and is on some 4" of wind. All is enclosed in = a Swell box, both manuals of about 4 stops each, though the sole ped.16ft = stop is outside (cheaper, that way). The design is foul, but the organ = admirably suits the building.   In the parish church on Lindisfarne, Holy Island, near = Berwick-upon-Tweed, there is an old 1m unencl. Harrison & Harrison tracker of just three = stops: big 8ft Open Diapason, a soft Dulciana (not a string) and a Ped.Bourdon. That one Diapason, with the Ped.16ft used if you like with it, well = supports 250 people singing in this dead Norman-cum-Gothic church. The organ stands at the head of the south aisle, facing down the church, backing on to a rough stone wall that is not reflective. Needles to say, the Open Diapason has masses of harmonic development, is of wide mouth and low cut-up with sharply-bevelled languid, is on more than 3" pressure, stands right there in the room it sings into, and is made of quite heavy metal. In (I'm guessing) about 120 years of use, no one has felt it necessary to add to = the instrument, though another manual and another dozen stops WOULD be rather nice.   I had fun some years ago. I took a friend to see a WurliTzer from the = 1920s in a large school assembly hall. The fellow tried the Open Diapason and pronounced it useless for ordinary music as it was evidently of huge scale and on very high pressure. I proved to him the Open Diapason was only 6" scale at CC, and that the Main of that WurliTzer was on just 4.45" = pressure. In other words, exactly the same as that 8ft Principal on the Great at St Laurens Alkmaar!! Voicing, and the appropriate mouth parts, were all that made the difference.   Against that, I know an 1874 J.W.Walker tracker of 1m and about 10 stops total. The Open Diapason there is of something like 7.25 inches scale at = CC. Not too big.   Bring back capable voicers!!!!!!!!! and those that can specify for particular circumstances, without being doctrinaire about paper schemes.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Advent Wreath Accident From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:49:37 EST   In a message dated 11/28/2004 7:41:59 PM Central Standard Time, Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com writes: I wonder if this qualifies for workman's comp???? Don't ask, Beau! You'll be looking for another job!!   Dale Rider  
(back) Subject: Re: Texts on organ design...which are credible? From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:26:17 -0600   I am sure you can find mistakes and things with which you disagree in any book. I think that does not mean the book is worthless. Perhaps it might show what the author believed to be true at the time it was published. Whe= n reading any book, I always look at the date of publication, learn something about the author,and try to put it in historical perspective. When considering a subject such as organ stop descriptions and details of pipe construction, perhaps one should consult a variety of sources. We have tried to be rather inclusive, instead of exclusive, with the sources in our AIO lists. Roy Redman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Texts on organ design...which are credible?     > At 2:48 PM -0800 11/28/04, T.Desiree' Hines wrote: > >Sebastian mentioned the credibility of the > >"Stevens" book. There are of course other texts > >out there. Which are good and credible primers? > > > > Desire=B4 > > If you read my previous post in reply to you > about the AIO Bibliography I think you can figure > that any of the books listed in that are good and > credible primers. That list is drawn up by the > Certification/Examination Committee of the AIO > all of whom are very well respected and > knowledgeable organ builders, one of whom is on > this list. Maybe he would comment some more on > this subject > > David > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >   >  
(back) Subject: Re: Advent Wreath Accident From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:27:29 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Imitation is the finest form of flattery.   Here in the UK, we have the BBC sponsored "Annual Reeth Lecture," with a man standing at a lectern.   Hopefully you gave a knock-out performance!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK (Suitablly chuckling at the thought)     --- Beau Surratt <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> wrote:   > Hi All! > Just wanted to tell you about a strange thing that > happened to me this > morning in church to give you a chuckle.... I > managed to walk to the > left of the wreath when I went to the lectern to > make the announcement > BUT, when I left to go back to the organ, I RAN HEAD > FIRST INTO THE METAL > ADVENT WREATH!     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo  
(back) Subject: Re: this organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:55:25 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: Re: this organ     > Hello, > > Being a 16ft harmonic, I wonder what use a 2.2/3ft > Twelfth is, in a chorus without a 16ft open metal > double?   Eh? In that case you would also need to eliminate 8 ft., 4 ft., 2 ft., 1.3/5 ft., 1.1/3' ft., 1.1/7 ft., 1 ft. stops, etc., since these are 16 = ft. harmonics too. They are also harmonics of 8 ft., as is 2.2/3 ft., and = there is nothing wrong with having a 2.2/3 ft. without a 16 ft. stop. A 2.2/3' stop indeed generally draws an 8 ft. chorus together rather nicely.   The ones that are 16 ft. harmonics and NOT also 8 ft. harmonics are the = ones that might need a 16 ft. stop. These are such pitches as 5.1/3 ft., 3.1/5 ft., 2.2/7 ft., 1.7/9 ft., etc. Even so, one might well deliberately have = a 5.1/3 ft. in the top octave of a mixture on an 8 ft. division in order to add a little depth in the treble. Some seventeenth- and = eighteenth-century organ builders occasionally included a full 5.1/3 ft. rank in an 8 ft. chorus for the same reason, but personally I think this is going a bit too far.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: A Little Humor at church this morning From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:27:31 -0600   At my church, it was "Where's the Advent wreath?" My cantor and her kids and I searched everywhere. It's just one of the perks of being an organist ;-) Alicia Zeilenga     -----Original Message----- From: "LBoekeloo" <lboekeloo@triton.net> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:29:59 -0500 Subject: A Little Humor at church this morning   > As I blew in to church as a substitute to play on the world's WORST > electronic instrument this morning, it was evident that the music light > on the organ would not turn on. With my mechanical mind, I attempted > to > diagnose the problem noticing a Christmas Tree on the chancel with a > gazillion electrical extension cords from here to eternity intermixed > with the cables extruding for the back of the organ. > > Of course, I followed the one cord from the music light to the outlet > and even though it was plugged in, no light appeared. After untangling > cords for several minutes, someone from across the chancel asked what > the problem was. I responded that the music light on the organ was not > working and I was trying to resolve the issue. > > To my amazement, she announced to the entire choir and several members > of the congregation that "Larry's trying to get light on his organ". > > I looked at the minister, raised my eyebrows and looked away laughing > to > myself for the remainder of the morning. > > Larry Boekeloo > Kalamazoo, Michigan > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Colin Mitchell > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:59 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: RE: stop list competition > > Hello, > > For no other reason that I play a very effective > instrument which is actually smaller than 6 stops per > division mentioned, and also due to the fact that I > know an organ about this size which is a wonderful > acompaniment instrument, I thought I would weigh in > with something I normally never bother about.....a > stoplist which would, hopefully, sit on exisiting > slider windchests. > > To me, the most important consideration is the > acoustic, and by the sounds of it, this is not very > lively......so forget Schnitger Mixtures! > > One of the finest exponents of the small organ was > Fr Willis, and even in quite large instruments of > around 50 stops, he seldom supplied bright Mixtures. > Even large cathedral organs often had no more than two > or three tierce Mixtures at 17.19.22., but never > sounded in the least bit dull. > > I suppose the trick is to get maximum variety, yet a > cohesive sound where all stops blend, because it is > important to make full use of what IS available. > > > Swell > > Holzflute 8ft > Principal 4 > Fifteenth 2 > Recorder 2 > Sesquialtera 2 rks > (12.17.) > Trumpet 8 > > > > Great > > > Diapason 8 > Rohrflute 8 > Koppel Flute 4 > Octave 4 > Mixture (15.19.22) III > > Dulzian 16 > > > Pedal > > > Bourdon 16 > Violoncello 8 > Flute 4 > > > Sw - Gt > Sw - Ped > Gt - Ped > > > The inclusion of a 16ft reed on the Great may seem > odd, but my thinking is that it would fulfil three > roles. At the octave higher, it could serve as a solo > register seperate from the Swell, when coupled to the > full Swell, it could produce an accompaniment > reed/flue sound and, as a 16ft Great stop, it would > add gravity and colour without weight. > > With a seperate unit chest for the 16ft reed, it would > be possible to have another stop on the slider chest, > but I have stuck to the idea of 12 independent manual > registers. > > In a less than lively acoustic, the combination of 2ft > Fifteenth and the 2 rank Sesqiultera would produce a > bright enough sound, with the tierce rank acting as a > tonal "binder"....an old English/William Hill trick. > > With adequate scaling and fairly robust voicing, I > believe such an instrument would fulfil far more than > the limited stop-list might suggest. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >      
(back) Subject: Re: A Little Humor at church this morning From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 07:25:02 -0000   Well, it just goes to prove ....... and there was I thinking that my experience was unique !   Everything was arranged, books and anthems put out in the choir stalls, piano in position, robes un-hung, candles lit, numbers 'up', the right 'Update' sheet and the new Advent order of service all on display ready = for the 'welcomers' to hand to the congregation as they arrived, voluntary laid-out on desk, turner-over to hand, the organ warmed-up.......   So I sits down and starts playing - "God is in his heaven, and all's well with the world."   And then the Rector notices that the Advent wreath is not on display ! Churchwardens hurry around consulting ... where can it be ?   Ahhhh; perhaps it's behind the organ .............. which means behind me = !   So, one poor lady is deputised (No, I don't know either the length of her straw, or whether she was sworn-in as a Deputy) to climb along the bench behind me and fetch said object (and climb back again). Anyway, gentle readers, you will be glad to know that your 'musicman' didn't miss a beat = (a Haydn Sonata .. so as to match the Haydn anthem).   Only ............. she'd forgotten the candles ............. which were (you've guessed it) in a box ............ behind the organ = ................ so the whole rigmarole started all over again !   I've never been "climbed all over" so much before ................. well, never on a Sunday morning .................. well, never in church ............. well, never when playing Haydn !   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman with a particularly rugged 'North Face'] ____________________________________________   Such sweet compulsion doth in music lie. John Milton ____________________________________________   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: Re: A Little Humor at church this morning     > At my church, it was "Where's the Advent wreath?"   [snip]    
(back) Subject: Re: Texts on organ design...which are credible? From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 07:39:24 -0000   And remember that we, too, will be the subject of similar criticism by the =   succeeding generation(s) - that is, if they feel that what we have written =   is worth the reading of in the first place !   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman known for quoting Jane Austen's words - put into the mouth of Mr. Bennett (Pride & Prejudice) - "For what other reason are we here, than to laugh and make mirth at = the antics of our neighbours; And for them in turn to laugh at us ?"] Which is still true of English village life (and elsewhere, I would = guess). __________________________________   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 3:26 AM Subject: Re: Texts on organ design...which are credible?   [snip]   Perhaps it might show what the author believed to be true at the time it was published. When reading any book, I always look at the date of publication, learn = something about the author,and try to put it in historical perspective. Roy Redman    
(back) Subject: Great Composers From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:06:16 +0800   John Foss requested that I send my post re great composers to both lists. here it is:   I really wonder how anyone can have the audacity to decide who is top drawer as a composer and who is not. Some of the greatest composers were not appreciated by their contemporaries but later were rediscovered. I have spent a few years now hunting out contemporary organ music. Some to me is ordinary but some is really exciting stuff. Whether some of the = contemporary composers are destined to be great, who knows? If we could come back in = 200 years' time we might be able to judge. At present the best we can say is that it is not a matter where we can be objective.We are too close to the times.   Just my opinion. However maybe I should amplify what I said. I have played some really exciting music lately - copies gained often by surfing the Net and finding what is available. However the names of the composers are virtually unknown to me. Who is to say whether they are destined to be great? I enjoy playing their music and some I play as voluntaries in church services is much appreciated by the congregation who =   go out of their way to ask who composed it.. I saw some listers make rather sneering asides about two modern = composers, though they are not composers of organ music - John Rutter and .Andrew Lloyd-Webber. I find Rutter's music wonderful, not deserving of sneering references. It is extremely popular here. One of the most moving pieces of =   music I have heard is Pie Jesu from Lloyd-Webber's Requiem. Will these composers be all time greats? Who knows? It is too soon and we are two close. However to limit the title of great to half a dozen composers from some hundreds of years ago is blinkered, tunnel vision, to my mind. Beethoven's =   greatness apart from three or maybe four symphonies was, like Chopin, in = his piano music. Perhaps we should consider the music of some composers whose compositions have made an impact on the musical world more recently - Samuel Barber = and Aaron Copeland, for instance. Adagio for Strings is sheer magic! I had not =   been able to raise much enthusiasm for the music of Phillip Glass until at =   the OHTA Conference here when I heard a transcription of one of his pieces =   played on the organ. It was exciting! Just my opinion. I enjoy my music. Enjoy yours! Bob Elms.    
(back) Subject: RE: Great Composers From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:59:34 +1300   >I enjoy my music. Bob Elms.   And that, of course, is the whole point.   Ross