PipeChat Digest #4807 - Thursday, October 7, 2004
 
Re: Q!
  by <Georgewbayley@aol.com>
how about reedless reeds?
  by "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net>
Re: how about reedless reeds?
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Performing Art College Fair helps a lot
  by "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu>
Re: how about that flush valve?
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
RE: how about reedless reeds?
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: spitta
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: Performing Art College Fair helps a lot
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Q!
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Tournemire at Monaco Cathedral included in today's O & O O updates.
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: Performing Art College Fair helps a lot
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
OFF-TOPIC (for some): the other shoe drops
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: spitta
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Acoustic delay theories: Vierne Messe Solenelle
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Q! From: <Georgewbayley@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:44:45 EDT   Dear GFC:   Please reread my message. I never used the word Jazz for "Come Sunday" nor =   have I ever considered it to be jazz. It simply is a splendid piece of = sacred music as well as splendid Ellington either as a solo song or as in the = Parker arrangement for mixed choir that we use.   Please don't give others the impression that I called "Come Sunday" jazz. = I know better than that.   George  
(back) Subject: how about reedless reeds? From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:53:33 -0400   I don't have a lot of information about the construction of Haskell's = labial "reedless" reeds. I would love to have a page on my website listing and displaying scans of ALL of Haskell's patents. If someone has those, I'd appreciate copies. Or, if anyone can give me the patent numbers, I can download scans from the US Patent Office. (So much information, and so = few hours...sigh!)   Incidentally, I've added a page to the website regarding "recycled" = Estey's. It's such a shame if some of these instruments go to the dump, or are chopped up for parts, when they could easily go to a small church, with limited funds, that could really use a real pipe organ. I know of one or = two right now. Anybody near VT got a big barn? lol   Phil The Estey Pipe Organ www.esteyorgan.com      
(back) Subject: Re: how about reedless reeds? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:03:06 -0500   David Fox's Index of North American Organbuilders (OHS) lists the = following patents for William E. Haskell:   488,559 12/27/1892 organ 708,765 9/9/1902 organ 641,509 1/16/1900 toilet flush valve 734,261 7/21/1903 organ 760,114 5/17/1904 pneumatic valve 760,115 5/17/1904 pneumatic coupler 795,608 7/25/1905 pneumatic 871,272 11/19/1907 pipe 923,263 6/1/1909 pneumatic 965,897 8/2/1910 pipe 867,911 8/23/1910 pipe 971,502 9/27/1910 pipe 1,064,476 6/10/1913 gasoline engine valve 1,078,851 11/18/1913 coupler 1,078,852 11/18/1913 coupler 1,173,507 2/29/1916 harp stop 1,230,895 6/26/1917 selector for player mechanism 1,236,430 8/14/1917 music player roll 1,250,165 12/18/1917 roll player registration 1,281,564 10/15/1918 swell regulation device 1,297,687 3/18/1919 pneumatic switch 1,304,971 5/27/1919 player action control 1,323,530 12/2/1919 organ 1,327,996 1/13/1920 labial tuba mirabilis 1,477,485 12/11/1923 bottling machine 1,659,914 2/21/1928 stop action 1,636,996 7/26/1927 bottle cap   It is possible that some of the inventions marked simply "organ" may be labial stops; it is also possible that not all of the varieties of labial stops were patented. The toilet flush valve was always one of my favorites. There were still some of these around Reading, Pa., when I lived there in the 1980's. = There was a sprung toilet seat which automatically flushed when you got up.   I hope this helps,   John Speller.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 6:53 AM Subject: how about reedless reeds?     > I don't have a lot of information about the construction of Haskell's labial > "reedless" reeds. I would love to have a page on my website listing and > displaying scans of ALL of Haskell's patents. If someone has those, I'd > appreciate copies. Or, if anyone can give me the patent numbers, I can > download scans from the US Patent Office. (So much information, and so few > hours...sigh!) > > Incidentally, I've added a page to the website regarding "recycled" Estey's. > It's such a shame if some of these instruments go to the dump, or are > chopped up for parts, when they could easily go to a small church, with > limited funds, that could really use a real pipe organ. I know of one or two > right now. Anybody near VT got a big barn? lol > > Phil > The Estey Pipe Organ > www.esteyorgan.com > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Performing Art College Fair helps a lot From: "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:58:32 -0400   On Oct 5, 2004, at 11:57 PM, T.Desiree' Hines wrote:   > Some places that were very basic about the organ were actually > suprising. They were actually somewhat...oblivious to the organ at its > school. And it was suprising. Shepherd school at Rice could not tell > me anything but very basics. Boston Con was at a loss for words. > Michigan was very basic in their selling the organ program.     I'm curious about Michigan. Were faculty or students there? It's a very good program. What do you mean by "very basic in their selling the organ program"?   MARGARETE THOMSEN %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% mthomsen@umich.edu    
(back) Subject: Re: how about that flush valve? From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:14:54 EDT   In a message dated 10/6/04 6:04:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jlspeller@swbell.net writes:   > The toilet flush valve was always one of my favorites. There were still > some of these around Reading, Pa., when I lived there in the 1980's. = There > was a sprung toilet seat which automatically flushed when you got up.   my elementary school in the 60's had these. out of necessity, i'm sure...  
(back) Subject: RE: how about reedless reeds? From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:23:35 -0400   This may be out of context. Sorry if it is. I've only had time to read the one message that appears to be at the end of a long string concerning the subject of labial pipes or ranks that sound like reeds.   I have access to a bona fide 188? Cavaille Coll "Hautbois-Bason" 8'and the organ that contains it (NOT a Cavaille Coll organ I'm sorry to write).   One day many years ago when my sense of mischief was better developed I = also had access to a flue rank labelled "saxophone 8'". It was spotted metal = and instead of being shaped entirely round it was flat from the top of the = upper lip to the top of the resonator. Sort of shaped like a "U" instead of the usual "O". It worked well at the same wind pressure as the CC reed mentioned above. I removed middle C from the CC rank and replaced it with middle c from the labial saxophone rank (waited a few minutes for it to cool down) and then "tuned it in". I ended up giving it a bit more wind at the toe to better match the strength of the CC reed. I left it in place for a week. Many experienced organists played it and no one that I'm aware of noticed it. I had trouble discerning any difference although it's "attack" was slightly different than the reed. Yours truly, Andrew Mead     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Andy Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 12:44 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: how about reedless reeds?     Darn, this is hard to do. In fact, Tim Bovard just picked up my Estey "horn" today that I sold to him. Tim, maybe you could take a = picture of a mouth of one of these and post on the N&S website for us or something!? I still haven't sprung for a digital camera which is why my website is still ugly. Or maybe soon someone will throw away another = Estey and I'll have another. I really do not know much about how they work. It has sort of a beard, but one that is very complex in shape and almost = closer to the upper lip than the lower one. Very weird. Phil Stimmel, are you = out there? Any info from teh Estey Museum website? If not, maybe we oughta = do that! That would be fun.   Andy   On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:07:02 -0400, Mike Gettelman wrote > Hi Andy, > Some things have been said about the construction of these > reedless reed pipes, particularly concerning the design of the > languid. Could someone be a bit more forthcoming about how these > pipes create the reedy sound without becoming overly technical such > that we lay people might understand. You mention they are tricky to > build and voice. Could you expand a bit on that? Most of us are > familiar with the construction of a basic flue pipe. Could you tell > us how a labial reed differs? Thanking you in advance for the = education > Mike Gettelman > > Andy Lawrence wrote: > > >Here in Vermont, because we have so many old Estey's, (Haskell was an Estey > >employee for a long time) reedless reeds are all over the place. I = find > >them very useful. Its not really a substitute for a reed in the strict > >sense, but they can be used as a solo stop and they do add a bit of = growl to > >the ensemble, and if full compass can add bite to the pedal too. I say > >bring 'em back. They're tricky to build and voice, though, I suspect, = so > >maybe these days it would end up costing nearly as much as a real reed? > > > >Andy       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Re: spitta From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:20:26 EDT   I found the set at the auction of the estate of a musician. I had given = my 3 volumn set to my sister to read, but at the auction there was the 2 volumn =   set by Dover. I also acquired the Sweitzer set. I have been able to get = very good books and music at auctions of musicians. Just an idea. Lee  
(back) Subject: Re: Performing Art College Fair helps a lot From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:58:23 -0700 (PDT)   About the schools being basic: It was a little late when I got in last evening and I was very overwhelmed = at all that was available. I am still overwhelmed. I think that the = representatives from some schools were just not well versed in the Organ = programs. Each school that I talked to actually sent representatives that = knew about the Music program and where specifically admissions recruiters = for Music. The ones that knew very much about the organ program, even able = to tell me about recitals by the faculty, were the ones that had already = interested me anyway except Meadows School and Longy. I had not considered = them earlier. No doubt that Michigan is a great program, I think that that = particular reruiter was more versed in the other programs. One school in = Texas had only one brochure about the SOM, and was more interested in the = academic/CORE part of the education. Others were very informed, stating = that their programs are conservatory-based or performance intense, with a = CORE curriculum of the basics. One even felt that "schools of Music" are more focused on the graduate students = than offering an undergraduate student the fundamentals and intense = performance. It was a good mix of places. About the Sacred Music programs: UT Austin is going to be a Masters programin Sacred Music. The other that = I know of that offers it at an Undergad level is KU with Jim Higdon.   Of an interesting off-topic note, the parents that were there. The parents = were looking at the schools and asking who the professors of their child's = applied instrument are. When I was looking at schools at 17, mama let me = go on my own. She felt it was my choice and for me to ask all those = things.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
(back) Subject: Re: Q! From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:05:15 EDT   Dear George,   The comment was not directed to you-it was just a general statement! = Sorry it appeared that way! No hard feelings? Cheers, gfc       Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net  
(back) Subject: Tournemire at Monaco Cathedral included in today's O & O O updates. From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:41:51 +0300   This week's update to the downloads section of www.organsandorganistsonline.com features organs from Monaco, Norway and Australia. Marc Giacone plays the Te Deum by Charles Tournemire on the Boisseau (1974)organ in Monaco Cathedral - quite magnificent. The Norwegian Hymn tune "Med = Jesus Vil Eg Fara", arranged and performed by Norwegian organist Hallgier = =D8gaard at the 1966 Snertingdal organ of Gj=F8vik church in Norway, also features = Ole Albrekt Nedrelid (guitar) and Tom Andreas Kristensen (percussion). = Organist Jon Kristian Fjellstad at the III/50 organ of Our Lady Church, Trondheim, Norway plays his own composition, a Little Improvisation, and the list is completed by two more recordings from my Australian visit, Bach on the = organ of St Andrew's Cathedral, Sydney and Brahms on the Von Beckerath organ in the Great Hall of Sydney University. I asked Norman Johnston if he had designed this organ, but he said no. Sydney University gave him a mandate to choose the best builder he could find, and paid his expenses to travel around Europe and the United States = in its quest. He chose Von Beckerath and then left the specification to them - I think the only amendment he suggested to their scheme was the separation = of the 12th and 17th on the Positive. It is a truly outstanding instrument. Having been totally spoiled for variety, quantity and quality during my three week stay I am hard pressed to say which instruments were the best I played - = but certainly this must rank high amongst them. John Foss www.organsandorganistsonline.com www.http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ TOPIC OF THE WEEK Will Light in Concert The 4 Manual Compton Organ in Wolverhampton Civic Hall      
(back) Subject: Re: Performing Art College Fair helps a lot From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:15:48 -0500   T.Desiree' Hines wrote:   > About the Sacred Music programs: > UT Austin is going to be a Masters programin Sacred Music. The other > that I know of that offers it at an Undergad level is KU with Jim = Higdon.   If you mentioned in your original post that you referring to undegrad programs, I missed it.   ns          
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC (for some): the other shoe drops From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:14:13 -0700   Well, we found out what the 20-foot-deep hole in our front yard is about .... they're doing soil tests to see if this property will support foundations for multi-story condos.   Redevelopment has been creeping eastward along University Ave. for some time now, as the gentrification of Hillcrest has driven real estate prices sky-high. A friend of ours recently inherited a modest cottage there, same vintage and size as ours, with a VERY modest 1 br apartment attached in the rear. Appraised value: US $1 million (!).   This area will become mixed-use ... businesses on the ground floor, condos above. The redevelopment corp. has promised a certain percentage of low-income units to replace the ones being torn down, but somehow they never get built. We heard that in Hillcrest too. Once again, seniors, the disabled, and the poor who work in low-paying service industry jobs will be the ones to be displaced.   That leaves Golden Hill as virtually the only "affordable" neighborhood in San Diego, and my old flat there, which rented for $600 when I left here 10 years ago, now rents for something in the neighborhood of $1500 = ...   With 25,000 on the waiting list for Section Eight housing assistance, and an equal number on the waiting list for subsidized senior housing, I don't see this improving the situation any.   Our management company DOES like us, and they HAVE said they'll help us find another place that they manage. The redevelopment is not going to happen immediately, but it's going to happen.   *I* still wonder who BUYS these $250K condos and $500K houses they're building ... San Diego's not a hotbed of any particular industry ... we HAD a Silicon Valley, but that pretty much tanked when the computer industry in general tanked.   Our biggest industry is tourism, and that doesn't attract people who buy $250K condos and $500K houses, or at least not that MANY. It MOSTLY attracts minimum-wage service-industry people, the very ones who are being priced out of the housing market.   I don't think it's a LOT of retirees ... they go south to Baja California in Mexico ... it's a LOT cheaper to live down there.   Bud              
(back) Subject: Re: spitta From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:51:34 EDT   Hello runyonr@muohio.edu,     In reference to your comment: > but does anybody know how to get a copy of the second volume of the two-volume > set of spitta's book on j.s. bach? it was originally a 3-volume set, = and then > dover bound it as two volumes, but this edition is now out of print. i =   have > the first volume and am looking for the second. any ideas?   Abebooks.com is now part of Amazon.com, along with a few other used booksellers. I've had good luck finding almost anything through them.   Victoria  
(back) Subject: Acoustic delay theories: Vierne Messe Solenelle From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:06:19 -0400   Colleagues,   Am set to play this piece this weekend, have posted this before. I'm the orgue de choeur, no biggie, right? But picture this: orgue de choeur console is perhaps 50 feet behind the choir, and the pipes which play from my console are perhaps 50 feet behind that. Then there's the choir on risers at mid-Chancel and the entire nave and the Grand Orgue in the balcony at the rear of the Cathedral. I'm to follow the conductor via TV monitor. I've done that before, but never under these acoustic conditions. The posters say "Two organs a city block apart!"   When I was practicing Tuesday, there was a mechanism which allowed me to play preset combinations in the Gallery organ. Just for kicks, I hit one of those generals, and a good 1.5 to two seconds after I played a note, I heard the note sound. I attempted to play a hymn and found myself listening for myself and consequently stuck in ritardando hell as the waiting on myself became a vicious cycle and I slowed down to a dead-quandry-stop. There was some success in simply not listening and going with mental counting and the tactile sensation of hitting the keys.   So, what is common practice in such situations? I mean, even if the gallery organist follows on closed-circuit TV, by the time the sound reaches the choir, then reaches me... by the time that my pipes' sound reaches the choir and her in the gallery.... it's just mind boggling. What is the ideal set up or strategy?   I'm not overly concerned, the conductor is sharp and the musicians excellent, I'm just talking theory here: what did Vierne intend and how did it actually work? How would one set it up to work better with what we know now?   Chuck Peery St. Louis