PipeChat Digest #4816 - Monday, October 11, 2004
 
RE: hymns in worship
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: Off-Topic: Pride and Priviledge
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: hymns in worship
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
RE: Pisgah
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Pisgah
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Austin Organ Available
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Estey Organs
  by "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net>
Re: hymns in worship
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Another organiacal literary reference
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Another organiacal literary reference
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: hymns in worship
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
[LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
RE: Another organiacal literary reference
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
RE: Pisgah
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: hymns in worship From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:11:55 +0100   Simple! Tell him you are going to conduct the choir during the hymns. = Then he will have to stay with your tempo not his own!   =20   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of ProOrgo53@aol.com Sent: 11 October 2004 03:53 To: CHORALTALK-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; pipechat@pipechat.org; PIPORG-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: hymns in worship   =20     Hello listers,   I am choir director at a church with an organist who, in my and in = other's opinions, among other things, seems unable to discern appropriate hymn = tempi on Sunday morning. Has anyone had to deal with this before, and if so, = what did you do?   Peace,   Dan dfry1@uiuc.edu _________________________________________________________________   =20   Church Organist auditions should include both a group discussion about = the applicant's Philosophy of Music in Worship (with the Pastor, the Music Search Chairperson, and the Minister of Music / Choir Director), as well = as a prepared introduction and one or more contrasting stanzas of a congregational hymn accompaniment, a Prelude, Offertory and/or Postlude, = and the sight-reading of both a typical anthem accompaniment, and a = realitvely unfamiliar hymn-tune. Such an exercise will readily demonstrate the individual's strengths and weaknesses and help to eliminate "surprises" = of weaknesses learned after-the-fact of the hiring.   =20   Hymn tempi depend on many factors, i.e., the room (sanctuary) acoustic, = the instrument being used to lead the congregation/choir, the hymn itself - (it's place in the service, its mood, its function in the overal scheme = of the worship experience), the disposition or other factors affecting the Organist at a particular time.=20   =20   Avoid (at all costs) the temptation to utter the vulgar and meaningless request: "We'd really like for the hymns be a bit more 'up-beat? ' " = "O God, Our Help in Ages Past" - upbeat? "God of Grace and God of Glory" = - upbeat? "As the deer panteth" - upbeat?   "Lord, I lift your Name on High" - upbeat? =20   =20   Two musicians (i.e., choir director and organist) rarely agree (even in = the same church) on hymn tempi. If a competent, learned musician has been = hired to serve a church as its organist/pianist, that person should be given = the freedom (and respect) to "minister" without undue critique or = examination for at least a minimum of three months prior to appraisal. It works in = the business world - and it ought to be the same in the church.   =20   A word of suggestion about hymns in choir rehearsals: always include at least TWO (if not all) of Sunday's hymns in every choir rehearsal. =20   =20   Unfortunately in many churches, hymns are often the most unrehearsed = pieces of music in corporate worship. Given that they are, presumably, sung to = GOD (and GOD deserves excellence), not only by the pianist/organist, but by = the choir, as well.=20   =20   For any choir member to be unfamiliar with either a text or a tune - or = the marriage of a hymn text and tune - is to do the worship service a huge disservice, as well as to the choir members, themselves. As = worshippers, they deserve to be 110% familiar with every aspect of what they're = expected to sing. Such exposure, in advance of Sunday, will also ensure that the keyboardist is rehearsing the hymns. This same person deserves the opportunity to prepare the hymns, just like anthem accompaniments, prior = to rehearsal.   =20   One of my graduate school professors enjoyed stating: "Congregations = are the only musical ensembles throughout the world for whom there is rarely = (if ever) a rehearsal, and yet they are expected to sing three, four or five diverse pieces of music as though they thoroughly know the pieces. How = can excellence for GOD be achieved with preparation so lacking?" (Dr. = Frederick F. Jackisch, Ph.D., Wittenberg University, Springfield, OH)   =20   Dale G. Rider Independence, MO USA   =20    
(back) Subject: RE: Off-Topic: Pride and Priviledge From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:18:43 +0100   We have a brilliant satirical programme on TV hear, called Bremner Bird = and Fortune. The performers are Rory Bremner who is a great impressionist, = John Bird and John Fortune are both elderly actors who have been involved = with satire since the 1960s. Last night on the programme there was a sketch = with Rory Bremner disguised as John Kerry, being told by his advisors that he = had to jump on the "stupid ticket" because the more stupid things Bush said, = the higher his ratings went.=20   =20   =20   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of DERREINETOR@aol.com Sent: 11 October 2004 06:00 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Pride and Priviledge   =20   Sebastian,   What we lack is a House of Commons and a House of Lords. Every Jackass = can be a Senator here, and usually is; as well, every Jackass can be a Congressman. How do they all get elected? By running on the "anti-intellectual" ticket Get an education, you're "elite". Get "c's" = at Yale--become President, and a multi-billion-dollar "man of the People". I'll be flamed for this, but WHERE ARE OUR PRIORITIES?   A pox on all available houses.   Pax, Bill H.    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in worship From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:35:41 +0100   AOL Email It's a simple deal that you have to strike.   Tell him/her that you won't dictate the tempii of his/her voluntaries - = provided they follow your lead on the hymns.   Harry Grove   [a.k.a. a musicman - amused by reading Harold MacMillan's quote about = the NUM (apparently fading away into the Transport Workers with only = 8,000 remaining members) .. "A man should never go up against three institutions .... the Catholic = Church, ... the Brigade of Guards, ..... and the National Union of = Mineworkers ..." ]   Well, one down ....... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ProOrgo53@aol.com=20 To: CHORALTALK-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU ; pipechat@pipechat.org ; = PIPORG-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 3:52 AM Subject: Re: hymns in worship
(back) Subject: RE: Pisgah From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:37:56 +0800   Interesting ... In "HYMNS" by Stream Publishers, 1966, (Living Stream Minis= tries) there is a hymn tune named PISGAH (724) which is disimilar to the Co= mmon Meter one in the Trinity Hymnal. The meter on this one is 6.6.8.6.8.8. The hymn by Madame Guyon has five verses, the first is:   A little bird I am, Shut from the fields of air, And in my cage I sit and sing To Him who placed me there; Well pelased a prioner to be, Because, my God, it pleaseth Thee.   While it may be a printing error in the Metrical Index, there is no "I'm No= t Ashamed to Own My Lord" in this particular volume.       ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:41:17 +0100 To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: RE: Pisgah   > We had "I'm not ashamed to own my Lord," yesterday. I used the tune > Gerontius for it. (We didn't know the tune that is set to it which is cal= led > Arden) We don't have Pisgah in our hymnal, nor in any that I've ever used= .. >=20 > Will Light > Coventry UK >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of M= ark > Koontz > Sent: 11 October 2004 01:54 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Pisgah >=20 > I took a look through some of my hymnals. I found the following words to > Pisgah in "Trinity Hymnal", which also hints at lawyering: >=20 > I'm not ashamed to own my Lord, > or to defend his cause, > maintain the honor of his Word, > the glory of his cross. >=20 > The words are by Isaac Watts, and there are three other verses. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >=20       -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm   >  
(back) Subject: Re: Pisgah From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:40:39 +0800   Ah now Will! Gerontius is a real hymn tune - my favourite. We sing it to Praise to the Holiest in the height. Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: RE: Pisgah     We had "I'm not ashamed to own my Lord," yesterday. I used the tune Gerontius for it. (We didn't know the tune that is set to it which is = called Arden) We don't have Pisgah in our hymnal, nor in any that I've ever used.   Will Light Coventry UK      
(back) Subject: Re: Austin Organ Available From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:29:58 -0700   >Hi! > >Can you tell me if the Austin is still available? > >Many thanks, > >Allan Remsen   sorry Allan, it left for CA last week.   John V  
(back) Subject: Re: Estey Organs From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:33:03 -0400   Bud- I'm hot on the trail of the Estey pipe organ. The earliest Estey's were designed by William E. Haskell, who invented lots of interesting things which appreared in them. At this point, I'm not sure who "took over" = after him. I know that James B. Jamison designed many organs for them up = through 1933 when he went to Austin.   This fall I had the privilege of playing 3 of the large west Coast Esteys: First Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA = (http://www.esteyorgan.com/Opus2281.html); Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, CA (http://www.esteyorgan.com/Opus2526.html), and Scottish Rite Temple, Oakland, CA (http://www.esteyorgan.com/Opus2639.html) They are strong, powerful and very 1920's in their sound. Keeping in mind that generally, the large auditorium organs had many fewer ranks of pipes than would a similar instrument today, these organs have = some LOUD stops. There's nothing weak about these organs. But, I have to say, = it was thrilling to sit and listen to these organs just about blow your socks off!   The Sacramento organ is in the hands of Scott Nelson, who is being giving some funds each year to slowly restore the intrument. The Tacoma one is = in quite good shape, and I'm returning next Easter to do a concert for those folks. Unfortunately, the Okland organ is not maintained, and in poor shape. At this point, it is safe, but this certainly would be an area for = a group of organ lovers to get involved.   I also re-visited Estey's largest in Claremont (http://www.esteyorgan.com/claremont.html). This, Estey's/Jamison's = "Magnum Opus", is sorely in need of a new home and some tender, loving care.   I'm always chasing down these big Esteys, so if anyone has information, photos, etc, please send it to me. I'm also willing, on occasion, to take a trip to see those organs which = are still in existence, as well as to serve as a "clearinghouse" to help find homes for Esteys.   Phil The Estey Pipe Organ www.esteyorgan.com   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re: Estey Organs From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:59:21 -0700       First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois wrote:   > A couple of folk have told me that Esteys were considered a "throw-away" > organ....not because they weren't well built (they easily lasted 50 > years or more without major attention), but because they were so darn > time-consuming to work on when they did begin to need work. I do know > you have to take off all sorts of stuff on the bottom (stop > action.......etc.)of the chest before you can get to the chest > mechanism, then repair whatever needs it, and put it all back together > before you can see if your repair worked. I've disassembled an Estey > chest, but never to put it back together, so I can't speak first hand. >   I remember somebody on here talking about a long "Estey screwdriver" that was needed for some of that.   Here's a question: I know more about the reed organ side of Estey than the pipe organ side. Other than Steinmeyer's brief association with them in an attempt to revive the pipe side, I don't know anything about their tonal directors.   The LITTLE Esteys I've played from the teens were charming ... full-voiced diapasons, handsome flutes ... the Swell salicionals were right on the EDGE of being too keen ... but in general they were a good, workmanlike, pleasing sound.   By contrast, some of their larger 2m and 3m electro-pneumatic organs from the '20s and '30s were the aural equivalent of wearing a rough wool sweater against bare skin ... EVERYTHING grated on the ear, even the Dulcianas.   What happened in the interim? The contrast was QUITE striking. Did Estey build those early T-P organs on slider chests, or did they always use valve or cone chests? Did they change tonal directors? Or were the little organs simply made that way to be "middle-of-the-road" so they'd fit into varied acoustical settings?   I've never heard any of the handful of surviving BIG Esteys ... what are THEY like?   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in worship From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:14:58 -0400   On 10/11/04 5:35 AM, "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> wrote:   > It's a simple deal that you have to strike. > > Tell him/her that you won't dictate the tempii of his/her voluntaries - > provided they follow your lead on the hymns. > > Harry Grove >   Maestro Grove MAY have meant that reply a BIT tongue in cheek, but (having been an organist and a choirmaster, but not both simultaneously), I regard his advice as SERIOUSLY CORRECT.   Alan  
(back) Subject: Another organiacal literary reference From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:59:07 -0500   In Volume 8 ("The Hostile Hospital") of Lemony Snicket's "A Series of Unfortunate Events" we read:   'An associate of mine named William Congreve once wrote a very sad play that begins with the line "Music has charms to soothe a savage beast," a sentence which here means that if you are nervous or upset you might listen to some music to calm you down or cheer you up. For instance, as I crouch here behind the altar of the Cathedral of the Alleged Virgin, a friend of mine is playing a sonata on the pipe organ, to calm me down and so the sounds of my typewriter will not be heard by the worshipers sitting in the pews. The mournful melody of the sonata reminds me of a tune my father used to sing when he did the dishes, and as I listen to it I can temporarily forget six or seven of my troubles.'   Just when you think the organ may be dead and forgotten, you find a reference to it again.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Another organiacal literary reference From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:46:35 -0400   On 10/11/04 10:59 AM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:   > In Volume 8 ("The Hostile Hospital") of Lemony Snicket's "A Series of > Unfortunate Events" we read: >=20 > 'An associate of mine named William Congreve once wrote a very sad play > that begins with the line "Music has charms to soothe a savage beast," a > sentence which here means that . . .   I don't know what the REAL truth is, but according to the New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy the quote is "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast"= .. =A0 "Music has the power to enchant even the roughest of people. This proverb comes from the play The Mourning Bride, by William Congreve, an English author of the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries." I suppose we've all heard it both ways countless times. Literary Sherlocks?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in worship From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:19:14 EDT   Will et al: I think we need to consider congregational hymns and the organist is the leader, not the choir director. The organist will follow the choir director in the accompaniment role with the choir. It seems the dissatisfacton is with playing the hymns too slow. It's all a matter of taste and style. It's obvious this choir director would be unhappy directing a choir in Germany. The hymns there are usually painfully slow. The Dutch do a much better job as to tempo. This is an observed trend and doesn't apply in every instance. I, myself like the the hymns crisp at a reasonable pace, and in workman like fashion. No matter what, the choir director should not direct hymns for the congregation. Perhaps, he can talk the organist to pep things up a bit, and practice them that = way. I can see his point, dragging hymns in pious indulgence is really not the way to play hymns. We have to consider that either the organist has good taste, bad taste or no taste at all. In either of the latter = cases work with the organist to improve or find someone else. The problem with the choir director directing congregatrional hymns is the = congregation for the most part will follow the organ, not some guy or gal swinging = arms around. it's just futile to even try. Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:10:15 -0500   Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs   WARNING: Should only be read for its bizarre entertainment value, and should not be taken seriously. The writer has already met with the men with butterfly nets this morning, and appropriate arrangements have been made.     What a last month! Geez, when it rains it pours. I feel battered and bruised. Bonnie and Ivan came to visit - Pensacola is still reeling, and until Saturday there was still dry debris primed for kindling all around, for there was been no rain here since Ivan. Where can one move to be free of storms? They have a habit of messing up my schedule, particularly where organ-related events are concerned.   Thanks to Ivan, that weekend trip to Atlanta was cancelled. I had planned to hear a couple organs and visit a few sites in research of a book. Instead I was cleaning debris and scrounging the countryside for ice and water. But that was not the only complication in my life. =20   As I mentioned before, my friend was murdered just prior to the storm, and I spoke at the service. Got a bit sloshed at home afterward when it hit me she was really gone. Then I was passed over for a general master position by a sweet young thing whose only legal experience was a year in court and 8 years as a law clerk, but she was a fine Republican, not good-looking but possessed of big hair. I was reeling from that good ole boy experience and a bit of nausea last Friday night, and went to bed hoping for a little of the eternal optimism to kick in Saturday morning.   And it did, but only for a few minutes. My brother called to relate that his daughter, my niece, whose first year wedding anniversary arrived the following Monday, was about to be divorced from her husband. Later my niece called - the slime she married has not even given her a reason. Her only clue was when he harangued her for serving him green beans instead of rice for dinner. They=92ve bought a house and two = trucks together, and there was storm damage to the home. So there=92s some sorting out to be done, and a lesson for him in equitable distribution. Does anyone have a pair of gauntlets I can throw in his face? One is not enough.   I couldn=92t even watch all of the Auburn-Tennessee game Saturday night, because, as you might recall from my =91red-neck wedding=92 post, it was playing last year the night of her wedding, reception and beer-drinking marathon. Then Rick came home from work the next morning and blurted out the latest rumor that his employer has a list of 31 employees to get axed if the former wins the election. =20   Monday meant court, and instead of being my usual belligerant self, I was subdued. To occupy myself I sat there calculating how much money it costs to get promoted by the good ole boy set. There seemed to be troubles everywhere =96 Bud on the list and his housing problem; my coordinator whose husband is slowly dying of cancer; a prosecutor who is getting canned the first of the year; a clerk who like me is not fulfilled in her work but cannot seem to find another job; another friend looking for a state job to complete her time for vesting some retirement; a grandfather and caregiver of a child who was about to be evicted; a termination of parental rights case where I am about to be at cross-purposes with one of my best friends and expert witnesses. =20   Somehow I dragged myself through the week, berating myself for letting it all get to me. I watched the presidential debate Friday night, hoping to lose myself in the national drama. Rick had not let me watch the prior two debates, knowing that I would rant and rave and throw things. The third debate just fueled my angst.   I had debated about whether to accept the invitation to do the recital at St. A=92s. During all this turmoil I had been faithfully going to practice each afternoon, but I was playing poorly, badly and insufferably. I could not concentrate on the music, and seemed to be unable to progress. I had decided the whole thing was a bad idea, even though I wanted the excuse to get back into the discipline of practicing and playing repertoire, I wanted to prove to myself I could still do it and even better than before, and I felt that if I described and critiqued others=92 playing I should put my money where my mouth is and open myself to ridicule, one thing at which I excel. Finally, things started clicking on Friday and I had a productive two hours=92 rehearsal time, feeling better.   The interstate finally opened one lane through Pensacola this week, and I wanted very much to go hear Jane Parker-Smith on Sunday in Fairhope, Alabama. I had not heard her since the 1996 AGO National Convention in New York City, where she blew me away. Here she was within a couple hours=92 drive in normal times (probably more like 3 =BD hours with the bridges and bad weather). But the weatherman was finally predicting some rain for our parched area. (An aside here =96 the Weather Channel overdramatizes the weather, so you can=92t always believe what you = hear.) I hate to drive in bad weather, but I knew I should do it, if for no other reason than in order to ensure that the rain came. I even debated about washing the car for extra insurance, but was too lazy to exert myself. I had decided that this trip and recital would give me a = =91sign=92 whether to play another recital.   I spent a very productive 2 1/2 hours Saturday afternoon at the console, and was so excited by a tentative program that once I got home I wanted to turn around, drive back and do it again. An old friend called asking for help with a Pedals, Pipes, and Pizza event about 20 miles away next month (a mission dear to my heart), and we talked for some time about organs we had seen.   Who sent another storm? I woke up Sunday to the news that Tropical Something-or-Another Matthew was hitting New Orleans, causing flooding all around the Mobile area. While I have driven several times in floods and tropical storms, I did not relish dealing with the other fools on the roads, particularly those Texas and Alabama drivers that buy their licenses at Sears. And Rick vetoed the idea of my crashing about on the roads by myself =96 guess he wanted me to have along additional victims.   So I missed Jane Parker Smith and my sign. I=92ve missed two organic excursions, and I=92m unaware of any other great area organ events now before the first of the year. What does it all mean? Is life a bad dream? Is it a good dream with a few nightmares thrown in for good measure? When do the knot in the stomach and the nausea from the stress of everyday living go away? When do I start enjoying the rollercoaster? Rick wants me to do the recital if I want to and it won=92t make me = crazy. I want to, but am I any good? Will I put an audience to sleep? Will I freeze up? Will I play like a peg-legged drunken sailor? Are there kumquats in Michigan? Is Mr. Rogers=92 neighborhood really all that nice? Can one get pregnant from eating at Sonic? If I play the recital, will the church break down and fix the broken notes and have the thing tuned? Can one play Reubke on 5 ranks? (Just kidding.)   I have been told that the answers to these questions and more lie in a deserted industrial trash bin behind an abandoned church in Tuscon, but if so, let=92s let sleeping dogs lie. Besides, that Calvinist optimism will envelope me any minute now.   Listening to drippy precipitation, itself an answer to prayer,   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: RE: Another organiacal literary reference From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:12:57 -0500   I left out the 'r' in the quote. But I am a beast surrounded by beasts, so it sounded better this morning that way.   Sorry.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Alan Freed   I don't know what the REAL truth is, but according to the New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy the quote is "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast". =A0 "Music has the power to enchant even the roughest of people. This proverb comes from the play The Mourning Bride, by William Congreve, an English author of the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries." I suppose we've all heard it both ways countless times. Literary Sherlocks?          
(back) Subject: RE: Pisgah From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:50:26 +0100   You're right Bob! A REAL, GOOD, STRONG, Old-fashioned maybe but PROPER = hymn tune!   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of bobelms Sent: 11 October 2004 13:41 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Pisgah   Ah now Will! Gerontius is a real hymn tune - my favourite. We sing it to =   Praise to the Holiest in the height. Bob Elms. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: RE: Pisgah     We had "I'm not ashamed to own my Lord," yesterday. I used the tune Gerontius for it. (We didn't know the tune that is set to it which is = called Arden) We don't have Pisgah in our hymnal, nor in any that I've ever = used.   Will Light Coventry UK       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>