PipeChat Digest #4817 - Monday, October 11, 2004
 
RE: hymns in worship
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: hymns in worship, . . .and music responsibilities
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Another organiacal literary reference
  by "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com>
PipeChat IRC
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Esteys
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: hymns in worship
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
RE: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
17 Oct: Kiyo and Chiemi Watanabe at Grace Lutheran, Lancaster PA
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Hymn Tempos
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
carilloneurs
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Concert in VT, 11/20/04 x-post
  by "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net>
Re: organ/organ duet music
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Paris Questions
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
RE: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs
  by "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net>
RE: Paris Questions
  by "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net>
Re: Paris Questions
  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Paris Questions
  by "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca>
Re: Paris Questions
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net>
Re: Paris Questions
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
 

(back) Subject: RE: hymns in worship From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:56:16 +0100   My remark was a little tongue in cheek, but here in the UK the organist = and choirmaster is almost invariably one and the same person, except in some very big churches and cathedrals. However, my impression has been that = in the pecking order in your churches in the USA the Choir Director (or = DOM) seems to rank higher than the humble organist. Is this right? And if it = is, the former could pull rank on the latter. (Or at the least he could say = to the organist, the choir is going to lead this hymn, please accompany the choir, and I will conduct!) That way the tempo is right, at least in the eyes of the choir leader.   =20   But I agree with you that there's nothing worse than hymn singing that drags. My tempi are usually on the brisk side - but as far as I'm = concerned, they are always just right.   =20   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of RonSeverin@aol.com Sent: 11 October 2004 17:19 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: hymns in worship   =20   Will et al:   =20   I think we need to consider congregational hymns and the organist=20   is the leader, not the choir director. The organist will follow the   choir director in the accompaniment role with the choir. It seems the   dissatisfacton is with playing the hymns too slow. It's all a matter=20   of taste and style. It's obvious this choir director would be unhappy   directing a choir in Germany. The hymns there are usually painfully = slow.   The Dutch do a much better job as to tempo. This is an observed trend   and doesn't apply in every instance. I, myself like the the hymns crisp   at a reasonable pace, and in workman like fashion. No matter what,   the choir director should not direct hymns for the congregation. = Perhaps,   he can talk the organist to pep things up a bit, and practice them that = way.   I can see his point, dragging hymns in pious indulgence is really not   the way to play hymns. We have to consider that either the organist   has good taste, bad taste or no taste at all. In either of the latter = cases   work with the organist to improve or find someone else. The problem   with the choir director directing congregatrional hymns is the = congregation   for the most part will follow the organ, not some guy or gal swinging = arms   around. it's just futile to even try.   =20   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:17:44 -0400   On 10/11/04 12:10 PM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:   > Listening to drippy precipitation, itself an answer to prayer,   I must be crazy, Glenda, but I really enjoy reading your stuff.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in worship, . . .and music responsibilities From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:34:18 -0600   Hello, Ron, et al: =20 > I think we need to consider congregational hymns=20 > and the organist is <as?> the leader, not the=20 > choir director. . . .=20 =20 In my denomination, the music director is the leader=20 of the worship situation. He/she is in charge of=20 everything that happens in the music rendered, good=20 or bad, fast or slow. =20 How the music director sets the music tempi varies=20 with the person, but, the point being is that is=20 his job. =20 The congregational singing varies from stately=20 hymns, to gospel hymns, gospel songs, contemporary=20 songs and choruses, to "happy birthday" sometimes. =20 My church music professor spoke of "getting along=20 with the organist." He encouraged us to become=20 good friends with the people who provide supportive=20 keyboard work. Then, he explained, ". . . the people=20 will do whatever the organist does." And, then, he=20 smiled, knowingly. =20 I can only say that, during my times in charge=20 of the worship music, as the music director, we=20 did a lot of work together as developmental tasks=20 for the organist and pianist, and explored some=20 of the borderline situations that we often confirmed=20 as, ". . . now, we know why there is strong advice=20 against doing (that, whatever it was)." =20 =20 For instance, have you ever played a service in=20 which the entire set of selections was in the key=20 of Ab? We did it one Sunday, just to learn how=20 it would behave. When the postlude was over, I=20 asked the organist, "What do you think, now?" =20 She had one word: "YUK!!!" I thought I knew=20 where we were going with this experiment, but=20 I had never before proven it. Even so, many=20 of our worsip leaders choose music without=20 ragard to the keys in which they are played=20 or sung. =20 I have worked with some organists who want to=20 play so fast, I can't keep up. If the beat=20 needs to be about 112 to 120, a tempo of about=20 144 is moving it along a bit too fast. So,=20 since I am in charge of the music, I take time=20 to use some appropriate conducting techniques=20 to signal the proper tempo for this situation. =20 =20 My own preferred method for communicating the=20 hymn tempi is to discuss them with the organist=20 during the planning stage. On Sunday morning,=20 we have no conflicts, and I tolerate slight=20 variations up and down in tempo. It's not=20 that big a deal. =20   Also, consider that many of our organists and=20 pianists may have satisfactory technique to=20 play the right notes at the right time, and=20 some can do it with good style. However,=20 many of our organists and pianists have no=20 formal training for the job as church accompanist,=20 except what they grew up with. In our contemporary=20 church music experience, much of the accompaniment=20 tradition has been lost. We don't have it on=20 display now. We get most of the influence for=20 contemporary styles from the non-stop radio,=20 24/7. Sorry about that, for it rarely exhibits=20 technique and style of a live congregation; it's=20 all studio technique. A trumpet is often in the=20 mix on a high A or Bb at a very low level. This=20 is easy with a mixing board and individually mic'd=20 input channels. =20 Try holding the live trumpeter to a low level on=20 high A and Bb, and he will excuse himself shortly,=20 and you will be without that player. =20 The color of the contemporary is being controlled=20 by techies; not musicians, . . . and that leads=20 the uninitiated casual listener to like some=20 style flavors that are unrealistic. Challenge=20 that in live service on Sunday, and the casual=20 listener will object; ". . .it's not that way=20 on the radio," he will object. =20 So, the music director has the job of planning=20 and executing the worship experience in conjunction=20 with the pastor/preacher. If you have more than=20 one or two performing musicians, someone needs to=20 be in charge. =20 Those with a good understanding of this situation=20 will prevail with a healthy development of more=20 musicianship among the group, both instrumental=20 and choral. Ignore what I just described, and=20 you are leaning toward a downhill plunge that many=20 never recover from. =20 F. Richard Burt =20 =20 ..
(back) Subject: Re: Another organiacal literary reference From: "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:40:49 -0400   Alan wrote: >... the quote is "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast".   Now you know that in today's America we are not allowed to mention a term such as "breast". The Thought Police are at my door!   Has anyone read 1984 recently? ---------- Ross Coulson "Cole" Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA        
(back) Subject: PipeChat IRC From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:45:39 -0500   Just a reminder that on Monday and Friday nights a group of PipeChatters join in for "live" chat on the PipeChat IRC server beginning at 9:00 PM EASTERN Time.   If you need directions on how to join please go to the PipeChat IRC page at: http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html   Hope to see some of you there tonight!   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Esteys From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:25:08 -0500   That's true... that's another parallel I hadn't thought of. Besides = having a reputation for lasting a long time, yet both highly difficult to fix (again reputation, haven't tried it myself yet), both Subaru and Estey = were the best selling makes of their kind in Vermont (Subaru still is I think).       On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:19:49 +0800, Jan Nijhuis wrote > Four-wheel Drive & Vermont. Hmmmm? >   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in worship From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:26:14 EDT   Dear Will: In the UK unless the organist/choir director is schizophrenic the music should go quite smoothly, unless an argument should breakout amongst a split personality. :) In the US in the parishes I've been in, the choir director has been the = town wire salesman, a contempo woman, a soprano soloist who sang like Florence Foster Jenkins, and a guy who made springs for computer hard drives. The best of the lot was the, you guessed it the wire = salesman. We were always the best of friends. none had any music degrees. I came from a choral tradition in the RC which was thoroughly trashed by so called Vat II. I had music training and so was better qualified through = the local colleges. The wire salesman had choral training in the seminary. The wealthier in the well to do neighborhoods had trained choir = directors, but I never knew what that might have been like. I have a feeling my = musical life would have been a lot easier, than having to match wits with mostly amature, armchair wanabees. It's been an interesting way to spend a life. Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: RE: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:14:40 -0500   Take it from an expert - you are. But that doesn't make you a bad person, as a former public defender friend used to say about his ax-murdering clients.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Alan Freed   I must be crazy, Glenda, but I really enjoy reading your stuff.   Alan          
(back) Subject: 17 Oct: Kiyo and Chiemi Watanabe at Grace Lutheran, Lancaster PA From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:54:46 -0400   For anyone in or near Lancaster PA this coming Sunday, 17 Oct:   Kiyo and Chiemi Watanabe, organ duo from Wichita Falls TX   Grace Lutheran Church, Lancaster PA 4 p.m.   The new organ at Kiyo's church, First United Methodist there, was featured in one of the national magazines very recently.   The couple will play the Merkel sonata in d, Variations on a Original Them= e (Barrie Cabena) and "Max Cat Rag" and "Charlie Dog Blues" (Robin Dinda), al= l original works for two performers at the same console.   In addition, transcriptions for duo-organists: Arrival of the Queen of Sheba (_Solomon_) by Handel Les Pr=E9ludes by Franz Liszt, trans. By Timothy Nickel.   Both hold degrees from Manhattan School of Music, NYC, studying with McNeil Robinson. Both also studied with Dr. Joyce Jones of Baylor U.   The congregation will sing a hymn tune Kiyo wrote fairly recently for a Lutheran celebration in Texas.   A free, light supper will follow the recital, with opportunity to greet the artists.   Grace Church is at the corner of North Queen and James Streets in Lancaster= .. James Street starts the 500 block of North Queen, the main north-south street, one-way going northward.   Someone, maybe I, will play hymns on the church's 15-bell chime as people approach the church for the recital.   Cordially, Karl E. Moyer=20    
(back) Subject: Hymn Tempos From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:18:47 -0500   I find that hymn tempos are usually set by congregational custom. We have one congregation here in town that sings all hymns at an absolutely breathtaking pace......most of the other congregations sing faster than I prefer. OTOH, our principal musician (I'm the pastor, not the organist), usually plays slower than I prefer. And I have visited a number of congregations who seemed to equate "stately" and "formal" with "Dragging = out a tune as long as possible." But as a pastor who has worked in and = visited many more congregations, I would suggest that tempos are more a cultural custom than anything else.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: carilloneurs From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:25:27 -0400   are there any carilloneurs on this site? please e-mail me privately.   scot in spokane  
(back) Subject: Concert in VT, 11/20/04 x-post From: "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:41:50 -0500   Hi, List- in the mold of shameless self-promotion, I'm playing a concert = in Shrewsbury, VT on their little 1/10 Johnson (stoplist at http://www.sover.net/~popel/johnson.shrews.html) which will, by then, have a freshly releathered reservoir and restored hand-pump (which will be used in the concert) on Saturday, Nov. 20, 4:00 PM. The church started fund-raising early this summer, hoping to pull in 8K for the reservoir and hoping for another 4K for the hand pump- and so far, they've raised about 19K with some more still to come in, so they've established a fund for the next repairs (with any luck, at least 50 years in the future!)   Bob Newton of Andover Organs (who are doing the work as we speak, so to say) considers this to be the most historic instrument in the state, narrowly edging out the marvelous Hook in Orwell (beloved of Karl Moyer, for good reason) and Eugene Thayer's studio Hutchings, now in the UU = church in Woodstock).   This organ was given to the town of Shrewsbury in 1867, at which time the ceiling of the church was raised to a barrel vault from flat, by a gentleman who wanted his daughter to have a proper wedding with an organ. The church is in the upper floor of the Town Hall, so the organ is technically owned by the town- as far as I know, this makes it the oldest extant municipal organ in the country, unaltered, unmoved, and still under the original ownership. Please correct me if I'm wrong- but it's a nice claim to be able to make!   I haven't yet decided what to do for solo literature, but I'm doing the Handel concerto op. 4/1, in g and G and this amazing virtuoso Vivaldi "Laudate Pueri" RV 601 with my favorite soprano and a string quartet (or quintet, still hashing out the details). The Vivaldi is intense- he makes the soprano do things that are usually left to the violins. 8 movements, all but two Allegro; high d's in the outer movements; no chorus, just the solo soprano, with strings (and a lovely flute solo in one short = movement!).   This Johnson has a marvelous 2-rank tierce mixture with plenty of bite- I can't wait to hear it with the strings!   The concert, by the way, is free.   Paul Opel Dean, VT Chapter AGO   http://www.sover.net/~popel/agomain.html      
(back) Subject: Re: organ/organ duet music From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:53:21 EDT   =20 Hello Fred, =20 I'm pleased you've written, asking about this very topic as it's one that I=20= =20 wish to explore this season, too. This gives me an opportunity to do =20 something I love doing, very much - research. Following, below, are some w= ebsites=20 which will provide answers to "our" quest for details about available organ= /=20 organ duets. =20 =20 Surprisingly, many of these work quite well on two manuals, I'm told. For=20 me, some difficulty comes in finding someone quite a bit thinner than me, s= o=20 there will be enough, uncrowded, space on the bench <chuckle!> =20 Hope you enjoy checking these sites (and sounds). Please let me know ones =20 that you find and enjoy playing. =20 One particular stunning Organ/Piano work is by Charles Callahan, each =20 instrument having a definitely independent part. The work comes off, when =20= prepared=20 well, not only as an artistic composition, but its tender moments move the=20 heart and feed the soul, an important ingredient for today's (church) music,= =20 particularly in the times we are living and dwelling. =20 Blessings to you! Dale G. Rider Independence, MO USA =20 _Sheet Music for Organ Duets_=20 (http://www.ohscatalog.org/ohscatalog/sheetmusforo1.html) =20 =20 =20 _Organ Duets =E2=80=94 Recordings_=20 (http://www.ohscatalog.org/ohscatalog/orduetrec.html) =20 =20 =20 _Organ Duet Music_ (http://www.kiyochiemi.com/organ_duet.html) =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 10/11/2004 6:31:34 PM Central Daylight Time, =20 fltw@sympatico.ca writes:   Greetings all   In preparation for our January concerts, we have been debating whether or not to add some organ duets. While we have successfully done piano-organ duets, and our version of Canon, its time that we expanded our repertoire.   Has anyone done any really effective duets that can knock the socks off, so to speak? I know that there have been some very good duets done at the Tabernacle in Salt Lake City. Our only restriction is that we are limited to two manuals (grr). I would like to try and attempt an arrangement of Symphony no 3 (Camille Saint-Saens)   We are also thinking of adding a multicultural aspect to it, with some musi= c representative of the Philippines and Japan.   Thanks in advance,   Fred Watkin Organist Brampton Ontario Stake The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints          
(back) Subject: Paris Questions From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:54:42 -0400     Dear List,   My wife has just won a trip to Paris for two over Christmas. (Courtesy of the Temple University NPR station.)   We are going to have to eat and sleep on the cheap.   I would like feedback from everyone about experiences with less expensive lodging, travel tips, organ tips, and the big Question: Where to go Christmas Eve to get our socks knocked off?   If you please,     Jim                   USE THE BEST! Linux for servers / Macintosh for graphics / Palm for mobility / Windows for solitare.  
(back) Subject: RE: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs From: "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:39:57 -0700   Phoenix doesn't really know what a storm is, at least in the magnitude you've been experiencing... :-)   And there are plenty of things organ-ic here, too! --sam   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Glenda Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:10 AM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: [LONG] Disgust, aggravation, and the dearth of signs   ....   What a last month! Geez, when it rains it pours. I feel battered and bruised. Bonnie and Ivan came to visit - Pensacola is still reeling, and until Saturday there was still dry debris primed for kindling all around, for there was been no rain here since Ivan. Where can one move to be free of storms? They have a habit of messing up my schedule, particularly where organ-related events are concerned. ...    
(back) Subject: RE: Paris Questions From: "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:43:27 -0700   I would imagine any number of cathedrals would have a lovely midnight mass on Christmas eve... --sam   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Jim McFarland Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:55 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Paris Questions       Dear List,   My wife has just won a trip to Paris for two over Christmas. (Courtesy of the Temple University NPR station.)   We are going to have to eat and sleep on the cheap.   I would like feedback from everyone about experiences with less expensive lodging, travel tips, organ tips, and the big Question: Where to go Christmas Eve to get our socks knocked off?   If you please,     Jim                   USE THE BEST! Linux for servers / Macintosh for graphics / Palm for mobility / Windows for solitare.   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Paris Questions From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:59:32 -0400   I would have thought that if you won a trip for 2 it would include transportation and lodging.   Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOUploads/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Paris Questions     > I would imagine any number of cathedrals would have a lovely midnight > mass on Christmas eve... > --sam > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Jim McFarland > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:55 PM > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: Paris Questions > > > > Dear List, > > My wife has just won a trip to Paris for two over Christmas. (Courtesy > of the Temple University NPR station.) > > We are going to have to eat and sleep on the cheap. > > I would like feedback from everyone about experiences with less > expensive lodging, travel tips, organ tips, and the big Question: Where > to go Christmas Eve to get our socks knocked off? > > If you please, > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > USE THE BEST! Linux for servers / Macintosh for graphics / Palm for > mobility / Windows for solitare. > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Paris Questions From: "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:14:54 -0700     Friends just got back from a trip to Europe, including Paris. They suggest =   you check the AAA for tour books. They have one book just on Paris. Also check a website "trip advisor" for honest reviews of accomodation. Hope = that helps.     >> Dear List, >> >> My wife has just won a trip to Paris for two over Christmas. (Courtesy >> of the Temple University NPR station.) >> >> We are going to have to eat and sleep on the cheap.    
(back) Subject: Re: Paris Questions From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:30:26 -0500   Jim,   The Left Bank is the most inexpensive, and the area in and around the Sorbonne, the student area, has the least expensive hotels. Before I had = an apartment, I stayed at Hotel St. Jacque (on rue St. Jacque) after that at the Hotel des Carmes on rue des Carmes, almost across the street. The = Hotel des Carmes was the least expensive one I ever found. They are both in the 5th arrondissement. If you are doing a search, look for hotels in that = area.        
(back) Subject: Re: Paris Questions From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:50:37 -0400   Can anyone either confirm or improve on our expeirences in Paris:   Citadenes, an apartment hotel in Les Halles area of Paris: it was quite cheap, had kitchen, living room, bedroom, bath, nice view   For Christmas Eve:" St. Eustache nearby? The choir we heard in June 2002 was quite good, the organ is spectacular and more, and Jean Guillou the organist is pretty spectacular as well.   I heard the organ at Notre Dame in a recital but liked the St. = Eustache organ better, if that's allowed.   I'd be eager to see others' reactions to these suggestions.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA   On 10/11/04 7:54 PM, "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> wrote:   > > Dear List, > > My wife has just won a trip to Paris for two over Christmas. (Courtesy > of the Temple University NPR station.) > > We are going to have to eat and sleep on the cheap. > > I would like feedback from everyone about experiences with less = expensive > lodging, travel tips, organ tips, and the big Question: Where to go > Christmas Eve to get our socks knocked off? > > If you please, > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > USE THE BEST! Linux for servers / Macintosh for graphics / Palm for > mobility / Windows for solitare. > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >