PipeChat Digest #4862 - Sunday, October 31, 2004 Re: Hmmmmm..... I am puzzled here... by "F. Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: ...the future or pipe organ (and all Western) culture by "noel jones" <email@example.com> Franciscan Communications Centre... by "Blair Anderson" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Organs and Organists Online add some more French Music to the site by "John Foss" <email@example.com> Second to none? by "Peter Rodwell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Second to none? by "Robert Lind" <email@example.com> Music today by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: A Happy Ending by <OMusic@aol.com> Re: Second to none? by "David Evangelides" <email@example.com> numbered churches, recycled organs by "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Terror Targets Organ by "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Re: USAF Mollers by "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Mid 1920's M=F6ller by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <email@example.com> Re: Music today by "Alicia Zeilenga" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: Hmmmmm..... I am puzzled here... From: "F. Richard Burt" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:04:00 -0600 Hello, Charlie: > Okay, so we're always hearing [from some quarters] > about how a pipe organ is ALWAYS superior to ANY > electronic ....... then we have all these recent postings > about all these INFERIOR pipe organs from "forgettable" > builders (including M. P. M=F6ller) "littering" the country. Let's stay in the wind-blown pipe organ domain for this subject and leave out the excess baggage that always seems to bog down the questions when digital and E-orgs are brought in. Yes, I have known a great many church musicians who regard any pipe organ of any size, shape, or condition is better than any digital or E-org. Those people come from a very disciplined mindset that upholds the principles of the AGO and the APOBA, whose lives depend on building only wind-blown pipe organs. I have no real complaint with APOBA, other that to say they are like the railroad people who once upon a time ran only steam engines to pull their freight. Let's don't even chase that rabbit. Since I took a team into a rebuild situation last year, let's examine only the pipe organs named in your question. The organ was a M=F6ller of about 1952 vintage. It had three-manuals, about 40-ish stops and was installed on two sides of the choir loft, behind the platform on which was mounted a central pulpit and a carpeted floor that absorbed most of the sound before it ever got out to where the people sat in the pews. This church had endured a poorly installed organ for half a century before they decided to "fix" it. This church building was built new, but was one of the first waves of creature-comfort versions of a traditional hall with central hear and air conditioning following World War-II. This was one of only a half dozen churches in the town with a real pipe organ, and their pride refused to accept that the architect and the organ builder did not speak to each other, so no provision was ever made to allow the organ to speak directly down the nave to where the people sat in the pews. Bad case of false pride. The real problem was not that they had a bad pipe organ, but that the egression of the organ's sound was defeated before it ever got out of the organ loft and into the nave. As we went through the pipe survey (getting our impressions fixed on how the pipes sounded), we had already adjusted out evaluation based on our intent to put in our own wind chests. Included in that assumption was the experience that we have had in re-using much M=F6ller pipework, that in our opinon was relatively good sounding work already, but we would have re-voiced the pipe mouths to sound even better, . . .singing instead of just blowing noise, and part of the improvement came from our approach to making the pipes speak well on our own windchests. In our opinions, our windchests make the pipes speak with more directness, less coughing, and less mudiness. If you are thinking about reworking an existing M=F6ller, different tonal directors turned out different results during their tenures. That is the experience background that we offer with "used" M=F6ller organs. Among the revoicing to be done, I remember that the primary trumpet had an "angry" sound. When we finished with it, it would "sing" instead of "growl." The words are limited in this description, but maybe you can get some of the ideas we collected. We planned to disposition the organ differently and open the chambers up on the sides that would allow the sound to travel directly down the nave, too. Not every rebuild person that approaches one of these old M=F6ller organs would have the experience that we have gathered and mastered over 50 years. Therefore, many builders will either prefer to start from scratch and build in the way they know best most often generating a larger cost to the church), or they will just move the old stuff "as is" (maybe leaving inherent problems due to aging), or, maybe, put in new leatherings (and maybe charge a lot of money for questionable work). I was rather please with our proposal. This would be a good job for us, and we would welcome the opportunity to bring this organ to life. You can view some our work on www.TempleOrgans.com Appreciatively, F. Richard Burt Temple Organs, Southwest ..
(back) Subject: Re: ...the future or pipe organ (and all Western) culture From: "noel jones" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:32:34 -0500 jch wrote: > At 10:56 PM 10/30/2004, you wrote: > >> Sadly the choices for too many churches are a Rodgers custom four >> manual trillium -OR- a $150 Casio keyboard with the auto-chord >> features. (c'mon, there's a "Church Organ" in the General MIDI spec > > > There is just no cure for folks with a TIN EAR. Fortunately there are > still folks out > there that appreciate the REAL THING, The test of an instrument is not what it is made of, but the music it makes. -- noel jones, aago email@example.com ----------------------------------- 1 877 249-5251 Athens, TN USA www.frogmusic.com Rodgers Organ Users Group Frog Music Press - Organ and MIDI Music FMP Organ Music Search Service Rodgers Organ Design & Voicing Services
(back) Subject: Franciscan Communications Centre... From: "Blair Anderson" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:39:02 -0600 Gentle ListFolk: Does anyone have an E-mail address for the Franciscan Communications = Centre which is, I believe, in Los Angeles, CA, USA? We want to reproduce "Make Me A Channel of Your Peace" in our bulletin as the Anglican Church of Canada's "Common Praise" hasn't included it and we wish to seek permission. CHEERS! Blair... Blair Anderson Director of Music The Cathedral Church of St. John 135 Anderson Avenue Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada -- "No one is responsible for all the things that happen to him, but he is responsible for the way he acts when they do happen."
(back) Subject: Organs and Organists Online add some more French Music to the site From: "John Foss" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:48:37 +0200 Dear List, This week we have added works by Bonnet, Guilmant and Widor to http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ David M Patrick is playing the First Movement of the Symphony No.4 in D minor by Guilmant on the III/62 Van den Heuvel Organ in the Katarina = Church in Stockholm. This is the first of 4 instalments of the complete symphony. Timothy Grenz plays the Toccata from Symphony No.5 Op.42 by Widor, = recorded this week on the III/45 1952 Austin Organ in the Zion Reformed Church in Lodi, California USA. It has a wonderful set of pedal reeds for 1952 - French in timbre I'd say. A splendid instrument and a fine performance. We now have movements 1, 4 and 5 played by Michael Dudman, Gregory Ceurvorst and Timothy Grenz respectively on 3 different organs, all of them impressive! Now all that is missing now are the second and third = movements! Is there anyone on the list who would like to complete the symphony with movements 2 and 3? The third French work is the "Variations de Concert" by Joseph Bonnet from my recital on the IV/53 1891 T.C. Lewis Organ in St. Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne, Australia last month. The fourth addition for the week is another "Toccata Improvisation" by Jon Fjellestad playing the II/17 French Romantic Organ in Hoeggen Church, Norway. Please don't forget that contributions from list members are welcome. So many organs are mentioned here from time to time - it would be nice to = hear some of them, particularly the less well known ones. We are trying to give equal prominence to the music, the instrument and the performer. And feedback is welcome! We have had a lot of very positive comments on the site, and to a certain extent the numbers visiting the site speak for themselves - approximately 600 visitors in the past two weeks, for instance, but I am sure those who contribute would be happy to know that their efforts are appreciated! Any suggestions are also welcome. John Foss www.organsandorganistsonline.com www.http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/
(back) Subject: Second to none? From: "Peter Rodwell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:53:18 +0100 Typing in and/or re-formatting hundreds of organ specifications is a task both thankless and more tedious than you could ever imagine. One tends to switch to auto pilot and one's mind starts to muse over the oddest of things. Such as: Why are there so many churches in the US called the "First <something>"? First Baptist, First Methodist, etc. Does "first" mean the first to be built in that location? Or first in some sort of ranking that somehow implies "better"? And why are there apparently no "Second <whatever>" churches? At least I can't remember ever receiving details of an organ in a chuch so named. Does this mean that, once there is a First Church in a place, the next one to be built has to be called something else so that its parishioners don't feel inferior, as they presumably would were it called "Second..."? (Now I know this is just asking for dozens of replies saying, "But I'm the organist at the Second Church of the Wrath of the Lord in Graveyard, Arizona..." to which my reply is, "Good - now send me the specs of the organ".) Just wondering... Peter.
(back) Subject: Re: Second to none? From: "Robert Lind" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:36:55 -0600 Here in the Chicago area, Fourth Presbyterian Church has to be the most important of its denomination. Certainly in New England one runs across Second Congregational churches here and there. Robert Lind ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Rodwell <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: PipeChat <email@example.com> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 1:53 PM Subject: Second to none? > Typing in and/or re-formatting hundreds of organ specifications > is a task both thankless and more tedious than you could ever > imagine. One tends to switch to auto pilot and one's mind > starts to muse over the oddest of things. Such as: > > Why are there so many churches in the US called the > "First <something>"? First Baptist, First Methodist, > etc. Does "first" mean the first to be built in that > location? Or first in some sort of ranking that somehow > implies "better"? > > And why are there apparently no "Second <whatever>" > churches? At least I can't remember ever receiving > details of an organ in a chuch so named. Does this > mean that, once there is a First Church in a place, > the next one to be built has to be called something > else so that its parishioners don't feel inferior, > as they presumably would were it called "Second..."? > > (Now I know this is just asking for dozens of replies > saying, "But I'm the organist at the Second Church > of the Wrath of the Lord in Graveyard, Arizona..." > to which my reply is, "Good - now send me the specs > of the organ".) > > Just wondering... > > Peter
(back) Subject: Music today From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:38:29 -0800 (PST) Sunday Octber 31, 2004 Celebrating the Ministry of Martin Luther Prelude Prelude and Fugue in E Minor S. 533 JS Bach Processional Hymn A Mighty Fortress is Our God Ein Feste Burg interlude arr. Kleintop-Owens Choral Anthem Teach Me O Lord T. Atwood Sermon Hymn Come Ye Sinners, Poor an Needy Arise Offertory Meditation Berceuse L. Vierne Offertory response Blest Thou, the Gifts Prayer Response Sevenfold Amen J. Stainer Closing Hymn (can't remember it..it was new, to me, and had the word = "men" in it too many times for the ladies of the church and our liking) Benediction Response The Benediction of Aaron ES Lorenz Postlude Ein Feste Burg (from 30 Short Chorale Preludes) M. Reger Yes its Halloween, but I wanted to keep that, first, its Sunday, and that = precedes any secular festivities. I avoided using the D Minor 565-A today = because I just did not want evoke "Halloween music" feelings. FWIW TDH From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
(back) Subject: Re: A Happy Ending From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:40:26 EST I am always nervous about "Fall Back, Spring Forward." On Sunday I forgot = about the "Fall Back" and arrived an hour earlier. I looked at it as a = gift of practice time with no interruptions. One choir member arrived early, but = went back home, anoyed that she had not slept another hour. It's the "Spring Forward" that we loose the needed hour of sleep. I hope it all went well = with everyone this morning. We are not a Liturgical church, but I played the = Don Hustad arrangement of "A Mighty Fortress" as the Postlude. Tonight Keith = and I are doing a piano and organ duet of THE Toccata in d minor. Then I will = play the Pachelbel e minor Toccata for the Postlude. Lee
(back) Subject: Re: Second to none? From: "David Evangelides" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:54:24 -0700 How about the Tenth Presbyterian in Philadelphia? I used to look in the Yellow Pages to find 2nd through 9th. Actually. 10th Pres is on 10th Street. It's where Robert Elmore played for years. On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 1:06 pm, Peter Rodwell wrote: > Why are there so many churches in the US called the > "First <something>"? First Baptist, First Methodist, > > And why are there apparently no "Second <whatever>" > churches? David E David Evangelides Fulfillment Manager International Bible Society 719-867-2729 (Sent by wireless T-Mobile Sidekick)
(back) Subject: numbered churches, recycled organs From: "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:15:02 -0800 Christian Science churches are invariably numbered First, Second, Third, Fourth, etc. ... a rich source of recycled pipe organs in recent years, as more and more of them close. I suppose the many parishes being closed by the RC church (particularly in Boston) will be the next gold-mine. Sad. Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Re: Terror Targets Organ From: "Richard Schneider" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:08:10 -0600 (Central Standard Time) On 10/31/04 @ 06:12:52, Stan Krider wrote: -------Original Message------- > Around our shop we've toyed with the idea of sending one of our > employees to the air port with a shipment of 16' offset Diapasons > with the bottom four tied to the top of his van. > We decided against it because we didn't want to sacrifice any good > Diapason ranks. I have a "for real" story that's one better than that! Many years ago, I used to have an old Toyota pickup with a camper top equipped with boat tiedown rails across the top. On one occasion, I was coming back from up in Wisconsin with a pickup truck-load of organ junk and you guessed it: I had Diapason basses bunjy-corded to the boat rails, foot-first. Since I was also pulling a trailer, I didn't want to overheat the truck by running the air conditioning, so I had the windows down. I was driving = south towards Illinois on Interstate 90-94 and was being passed by an old = beat-up station wagon full of a family of vacationers that also had its windows rolled down (the car looked like the kind where you knew that the air-conditioning had long given-up the ghost!) Anyway, as the car came along side to pass me, I DISTINCTLY saw the kid in the back seat closest to me look up at the top of my pickup, then look at = me and then back at the top again. As his eyes grew as large as saucers, he shouted to his Dad, who was driving, "Look Dad! That guy's got TORPEDOES = on the top of his truck!!" The guy then looked in his rear-view mirror, and the next thing I knew, I was engulfed in a cloud of black sooty smoke as the guy punched the gas to get as much distance between me and him as possible. It's a wonder he = didn't get a speeding ticket! True story! I'm just glad this was MANY years before 9/11, or else I'm = sure he would have reported me and a squadron of black-and-whites would have = soon had me surrounded and my nose in the asphalt with a state Police Trooper's boot in my back asking where Osama Bin-ladin was hiding! Faithfully, Rich (who ALWAYS transports long pipes in fully-enclosed trailers anymore for JUST that reason!)
(back) Subject: Re: USAF Mollers From: "Richard Schneider" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:36:41 -0600 (Central Standard Time) On 10/31/04 @ 11:10:20, Sebastian Gl=FCck wrote: -------Original Message------- > The Moller organ in the Chapel of the Skies was, in fact, of > Holtkamp's design. Several years ago, the AIO Convention was held in Colorado Springs and one of the organ venues visited was, in fact, the Air Force Academy and its several instruments in the different chapels (although, unfortunately, = some were locked-up and unable to be viewed!). I was given to understand by the presentation given that, typical of the government procurement process used, that each ASPECT of the instrument = was bid. IOW: rather than being done as a one-stop-shopping "turnkey", the = G.P.O bid out the design stage as one contract and the actual construction as a separate contract. This must have been a formidable headache for all involved, since one = shop's methods would be so likely different than anothers that it's a wonder that M=F6ller was able to do the work at all under such an unlikely set of operating parameters! I don't remember anymore, but I had thought the Protestant Chapel = instrument had been built earlier than commented on by others previously, like in the early 1960's when the building was constructed! Faithfully, G.A.
(back) Subject: Mid 1920's M=F6ller From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:40:19 -0600 My sister's Presby church here in southern Illinois has a beautifully maintained mid-1920's M=F6ller.......after sixty some years it was = rebuilt by M=F6ller itself, sometime in the 1980's. It's two manual, perhaps 10 or 12 ranks, and is a lovely instrument, cared for with love and attention. Yes, it's "smooth" to the point of no articulation, but it sounds very nice.........throw on the trems and play a popular piece and it sounds for all the world like a very mild Wurlitzer! Don't knock it--it was the style of the times, and it has been a faithful service instrument for eighty some years, and still fills the auditorium with warm, rich, sound. No doubt it sounded even better before the budget permitted the entire sanctuary to be carpeted! If the church had the money to replace it, there would be absolutely NO reason to do so! BTW, this good instrument in a church where attendance averages under 100 on Sundays is played by SIX qualified organists, all members, who grew up hearing the organ, loving the organ, and being encouraged to learn to play it. Dennis Steckley "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss
(back) Subject: Re: Music today From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:36:15 -0600 I played the Tocatta and people seemed to enjoy it. The Postlude -when I used it- isn't part of the service and I love the piece anyway. Alicia Zeilenga From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> > > > Yes its Halloween, but I wanted to keep that, first, its Sunday, and > that precedes any secular festivities. I avoided using the D Minor > 565-A today because I just did not want evoke "Halloween music" > feelings. >