PipeChat Digest #4864 - Sunday, October 31, 2004
 
horses and buggies
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Boston Symphony Hall Specification (2004 rebuild)
  by "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET>
Re: it finally happened...
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Horse-drawn buggies, and all that goes with it.......
  by <Georgewbayley@aol.com>
Re: USAF Mollers
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Reformation and Reconciliation Sunday
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: it finally happened...
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: horses and buggies
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
An Estey Update
  by "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net>
Re: Second to none?
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: horses and buggies
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
modern technology
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: horses and buggies
  by "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: horses and buggies From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:23:27 -0800   All OTHER musical instruments from the 15th century onward are treasured, restored, played, etc. ... a Stradivarius violin or violoncello sells for millions of dollars.   Yet pipe organs that are JUST as finely crafted REGULARLY end up in landfills, as the excellent Mr. Gluck pointed out awhile ago.   Why?   Mostly because organists want to play "keeping up with the Joneses."   If an organ has done its job for fifty, seventy-five or a hundred years or more, all other things being equal, WHY is it suddenly necessary to replace it with a four-manual behemoth, either pipe OR digital?   Dare I say that organists are infatuated with SIZE? (grin)   Once again, I can only plead:   GO TO THE LITURGY.   What does IT require?   GO TO THE ORGAN LITERATURE.   What does IT require?   At MOST, a three-manual organ of perhaps 30-50 stops.   MOST of the organ literature required in CHURCH can be played on much = LESS.   We wrongly connect number of stops with VOLUME.   Schoenstein built an organ of 130-something stops or ranks (forget which) for an acoustically-dead hall that seats TWENTY THOUSAND PEOPLE, *and* which has to accompany the singing of a full hall; he had to employ (invent?) some novel scaling, winding and voicing techniques, but from all reports, it does a GRAND job.   For example, a lot of 19th century Roman Catholic organs in the US were small, particularly those outside large cities; they DIDN'T have to accompany congregational singing, for the most part; yet when congregational singing BECAME a part of the RC liturgy in the 1960s, it was discovered that those small, full-toned, well-voiced, encased organs managed just FINE.   One such organ we moved and restored for an RC church in Cincinnati, from a closed RC church of similar size and acoustics. It can be pumped by hand; there is also an electric blower. There IS a marked difference in sound when the wind is raised by hand. It's not hand-pumped all the time, obviously ... the blower IS a convenience for practicing.   The Great chorus of Principals 8 - 4 - 2 2/3 - 2 is QUITE good for playing Bach preludes and fugues, on account of the scaling and voicing; the Swell 8' Stopt Diapason and 4' Fugara or 4' Flute makes a FINE secondary chorus. The acoustics are spacious; the organ SINGS in the room.   I often played Frescobaldi toccatas on it with the Swell 8' Diapason coupled to the Great 8' Diapason and the Swell Diapason knob pushed in slightly to produce a Voce Umana; it was LOVELY. One could do the same thing with the Great 8' Flute and Dulciana; or the Swell Diapason and Salicional.   The organ had two reeds: Oboe and Vox Humana; the Vox Humana was large enough for a reedy sound in most things; the Oboe topped the coupled choruses with the box open. Some consideration was given to replacing the Great Dulciana with a vintage Koehnken & Grimm trumpet, but in the end the organist decided he couldn't give up the lovely Dulciana for chant accompaniment (chuckle).   The best word to describe that organ is SATISFYING. One can play it for hours without becoming tired of the sound; there isn't a single throw-away stop on it ... every single stop serves a purpose, and serves it admirably; and they can be combined in virtually every imaginable combination and still make a MUSICAL sound.   There is a similar electric-action Schlicker here in San Diego, voiced by Manuel Rosales when he was still with them ... the organ is about 30 years old. The sound is SATISFYING ... at something like 27 stops in a good room that seats 700 VERY convinced German Lutherans who SING, it is entirely successful; the organist plays mostly Bach and Buxtehude; but I found stop combinations to play Vierne and Franck when I substituted for him (grin).   It isn't the size of the organ that matters; it's the excellence of the builder, AND the musicianship of the organist.   Cheers,   Bud                              
(back) Subject: Boston Symphony Hall Specification (2004 rebuild) From: "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:23:27 -0500   Last Wednesday Mike Foley, president of Foley-Baker, Inc. gave a talk on the new rebuild of the Boston Symphony Hall Organ followed by a tour of the chamber. Follow the link below for the specification. I have it on my web site for now but hope to have the Boston Symphony post it on their web site: www.bso.org eventually.   www.ed.jack.net/BSHOrgan/BSHOrganSpec.htm (case sensitive) HTML www.ed.jack.net/BSHOrgan/BSHOrganSpec.doc (case sensitive) MS Word document   Some key points with regards to the rebuild:   Once the organ was removed the walls of the chamber were plastered to enhance the reflection of sound outwards. The chamber extends beyond the width of the stage so the plastering there will definitely help.   The organ was reduced from 80 to 75 ranks, mainly by removing the positiv division which E. Power Biggs had put in in the 1949 rebuild. He wanted this division so he could do solo recitals on the organ.   The accessibility of the organ was improved so that maintenance can more easily be performed. The positiv division couldn't be reached in the old configuration.   The organ chamber where it overhangs the stage was structurally weak and was reinforced.   The original Spencer blower was rebuilt and two new auxiliary blowers were installed to assure there would be no sag in wind.   The Bombarde division was placed under expression to allow for better matching of the volume of this division with the orchestra.   The old four manual console was scrapped. The part of the console that Albert Schwitzer had autographed was cut out and is now on display along with other organ memorabilia in the Cohen Wind of Symphony Hall. If you go to the open house on Nov 7th, check it out. More below.   The one manual and pedal POPS console is still at the Folwy-Baker shops. Mike asked if anyone wanted it.   The new three manual circular drawknob console is in the French tiered style. The pedalboard conveniently folds up so that the organ can be moved and stored. The music rack is transparent so that the organist can better see the conductor. In fact that was the main driving force in going to three versus four manuals.   The old console used a setter board while the new one has modern electronic capture action. The console is multiplexed with the relay using only eight wires.   The organ has a mechanism for capturing an organist's key action and replaying it.   There is a new two manual tuning console.   Most importantly, the generous benefactors of the organ saw to it that there is an endowment to maintain the organ in the future. This is a first for this organ.       I would be most interested in opinions regarding the suitability of the new rebuild for solo recitals. The emphasis of the rebuild was to better be an instrument for accompanying the orchestra. How suitable might it be for a recital series?     Finally as you have probably already noticed, the Boston Symphony will host an open house at Symphony Hall on Sunday November 7th from noon until 8:30 or so. The event is free and open to the public. Felix Hell and Thomas Trotter will head the list of organists playing during the course of the day. Even the organist for the WORLD CHAMPION Boston Red Sox will get to play some baseball music. See www.bso.org and click on 'open house' for the actual schedule and other details.   I'll be lurking about the hall on the 7th in my Piporg-L sweat shirt and a white name tag. I'd love to meet folks from this list.   Charlie Jack   Charlie Jack Charlie@Jack.NET  
(back) Subject: Re: it finally happened... From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:37:31 -0500   On 10/31/04 6:29 PM, "BlueeyedBear@aol.com" <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> wrote:   > at the conclusion of the postlude, the congregation actually began applau= ding > before i lifted the final chord...   Very NICE, Scot. I=B9m glad for you; I=B9m sure it was overdue. Just don=B9t le= t it get to be a HABIT!   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Horse-drawn buggies, and all that goes with it....... From: <Georgewbayley@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:45:28 EST   31 October 2004   Bravo! Well said!   And we have 128 memory levels, for in addition to me, we have four = organists in the parish, an assistant choral director, and a vocal trainer. With = guest organists and recitalists, 128 levels are not an excess!   It's time to get on with making music!   George  
(back) Subject: Re: USAF Mollers From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:57:36 -0600   Dear Lee,   I'm fairly sure that the organs at Lackland AFB, Sheppard AFB, and USAFA = were installed in the late 60's and 70's. Mather AFB in Sacramento had = a 12 rank Moller unit organ installed in 1976 when I was Chapel = organist. Not the greatest instrument, but it got the j.o.b. done and = was a welcome replacement for the old Hammond C2 (which often required a = literal kick-start, LOL) that was there before the Moller!   Tim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: OMusic@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 3:43 PM Subject: Re: USAF Mollers     I was organist at the Ft. Bliss (El Paso) chapel in the 50's when they = still had Hammonds. When were the pipe organs installed? I also played = at Biggs AFB chapel occasionally (another Hammond). Lee
(back) Subject: Reformation and Reconciliation Sunday From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:59:46 -0500   ALL the church music lists are LOADED with their music for the day. You'd think the whole universe had turned Lutheran. Uh . . . Not likely.   So, ours. I had NOTHING to do with it, so I am BRAGGING, but not about ANYthing I've done.   Prelude: Concerto in d minor for two violins BWV 1043 JSB (One quite long unaccompanied movement with real fiddles; I=B9d call it Adagio) Processional: Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation (Lobe den Herren) Accompanied super fanciwise by organ and trombone quartet. Hymn of the Day: A Mighty Fortress (Ein feste...) Full forces, of course. Offertory: Cantata: Lord, keep us steadfast in thy word. D. Buxtehude (BuxWV 27; various sections brass/strings [fiddles, viola, cello]/organ, etc.) Heaven! (maybe 12 mins.) Communion hymn: O Lord, we praise you (Gott sei gelobet und gebenedeiet) Recessional: Now thank we all our God (Nun danket) (brass/organ) Postlude: Brass choir (title not published)   All the chorales done with full bounce rhythmics; TONS of fun! Gott sei gelobet is the GREATEST! It was just a BALL! I can=B9t believe they have this much fun at St. Patrick=B9s, St. Bart=B9s, or St. Thomas=B9.   IMMENSE kudos for our cantor, Pedro d=B9Aquino. (Great preaching too; the pastor reads this.)   Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: it finally happened... From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:16:34 -0600   Re: it finally happened...I don't know what you're driving at, Alan. A = fact of life in many churches today is that people will applaud anthems = and postludes. A few months ago a Pastor in my church began the welcome = with "I wanted to applaud at the end of the prelude, and I think we all = did. Let's do it now."   This won't happen everywhere, certainly, but as we continue to offer our = very best to God, some people are going to acknowledge our efforts with = a bit more than a very reserved smile or sotto voce thank you.   Frankly, in my church if I don't get some applause at the end of a = postlude, I figure I've bored everyone silly and had better shelve that = one. I'm not trying to draw undue attention to the organist but rather = to the music and to maintain/increase the base of listeners who are = interested in the organ and its wonderful literature.   Robert Lind ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Freed=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Re: it finally happened...     On 10/31/04 6:29 PM, "BlueeyedBear@aol.com" <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> = wrote:     at the conclusion of the postlude, the congregation actually began = applauding before i lifted the final chord... =20     Very NICE, Scot. I'm glad for you; I'm sure it was overdue. Just = don't let it get to be a HABIT!   Alan=20  
(back) Subject: Re: horses and buggies From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:25:35 -0600   Exactly Bud! It's not the size of the instrument. It's scale and voicing =   of the pipes, and the musicianship of the organist that matters.   You mentioned small organs in RC churches that are satisfying to play and more than get the job done. Absolutely true! When the "new" St. Anne's = RC in Lodi, CA was built in the early 1960's, a little 5 rank Moller was installed. The nave is a modern concrete barn, and was very acoustically "live". That little organ was voiced magnificently. A tiny GEM of an organ! The RC CATHEDRAL in Sacramento is a fine example of a small unenclosed organ. One of Schlicker's cased unit organs. Only 9 RANKS, = but talk about stunning voicing .... gutsy little organ! Clear and bright principals, lovely flutes, lush strings, absolutely delicious reeds, mixtures to die for, and a 32' resultant in the pedal for desert. Not a piston or Swell shoe to be found anywhere. One of the most musical organs = I have ever played. Amazing what can be done registering by hand....   Cheers,   Tim   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> <snips> > when congregational singing BECAME a part of the RC liturgy in the = 1960s, > it was discovered that those small, full-toned, well-voiced, encased > organs managed just FINE. > > One such organ we moved and restored for an RC church in Cincinnati, = from > a closed RC church of similar size and acoustics. It can be pumped by > hand; there is also an electric blower. There IS a marked difference in > sound when the wind is raised by hand. It's not hand-pumped all the = time, > obviously ... the blower IS a convenience for practicing. > > The Great chorus of Principals 8 - 4 - 2 2/3 - 2 is QUITE good for = playing > Bach preludes and fugues, on account of the scaling and voicing; the = Swell > 8' Stopt Diapason and 4' Fugara or 4' Flute makes a FINE secondary = chorus. > The acoustics are spacious; the organ SINGS in the room. > It isn't the size of the organ that matters; it's the excellence of the > builder, AND the musicianship of the organist. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: An Estey Update From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:26:56 -0500   Just wanted to alert this list to the additions to the Estey Pipe Organ website.   I've added lots and lots of new pictures, including trading cards, post cards, etc. Also, today I added a brief file of "Fats" Waller playing the Trenton, NJ Estey in the Victor recording studio; he could sure make that organ "hop".   I'm always looking for additional photos and information on existing = organs throughout the country.   So far, I've been fortunate in finding several people around the country = who can supply information to me. Are there any others, particularly in metropolitan areas, who might be willing to do some detective work, = chasing down the status of some of these instrtuments. I've been able to do a lot via the Internet, but someone local could probably do a better/faster job. I'm particularly looking for some of the larger, more unusual instruments.   Phil Stimmel   The Estey Pipe Organ - A Virtual Museum - www.esteyorgan.com      
(back) Subject: Re: Second to none? From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:50:58 EST   In a message dated 10/31/2004 5:24:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Wuxuzusu@aol.com writes: And why are there apparently no "Second <whatever>" churches? At least I can't remember ever receiving details of an organ in a chuch so named. Does this mean that, once there is a First Church in a place, the next one to be built has to be called something else so that its parishioners don't feel inferior, as they presumably would were it called "Second..."? Here in Staunton (VA), We have a First, Second and Third Presbyterian church(es). First and Second Presby. are even on the SAME street! - just = at opposite ends of town, more or less... andboth First and Second have pipe organs in =   them...First has a much-rebuild and altered Pilcher, and Second has an = un-altered Moller.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: horses and buggies From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:52:36 -0600   I wish all you Buddites continued happiness with your constricted instruments and repertoire. I want to gag every time we have these = overlong rehashes of this stuff more often than PBS has fund drives. Go off to the little brown church in the wildwood and/or vale and bore everyone silly = who may be within earshot. Some of us live in the 21st century and are aware = of what our parishioners hear on the radio, TV, CDs, you name it. They won't sit still for what they consider to be boring music and a limited tonal palette. Yearn all you want for a kinder, gentler, simpler life and monochromaticism and one-dimensionality. Most American churchgoers don't want it and neither do I.   Robert Lind ----- Original Message ----- From: Octaaf <octaaf@charter.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: horses and buggies     > Exactly Bud! It's not the size of the instrument. It's scale and = voicing > of the pipes, and the musicianship of the organist that matters. > > You mentioned small organs in RC churches that are satisfying to play = and > more than get the job done. Absolutely true! When the "new" St. Anne's RC > in Lodi, CA was built in the early 1960's, a little 5 rank Moller was > installed. The nave is a modern concrete barn, and was very = acoustically > "live". That little organ was voiced magnificently. A tiny GEM of an > organ! The RC CATHEDRAL in Sacramento is a fine example of a small > unenclosed organ. One of Schlicker's cased unit organs. Only 9 RANKS, but > talk about stunning voicing .... gutsy little organ! Clear and bright > principals, lovely flutes, lush strings, absolutely delicious reeds, > mixtures to die for, and a 32' resultant in the pedal for desert. Not a > piston or Swell shoe to be found anywhere. One of the most musical = organs I > have ever played. Amazing what can be done registering by hand.... > > Cheers, > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> > <snips> > > when congregational singing BECAME a part of the RC liturgy in the 1960s, > > it was discovered that those small, full-toned, well-voiced, encased > > organs managed just FINE. > > > > One such organ we moved and restored for an RC church in Cincinnati, from > > a closed RC church of similar size and acoustics. It can be pumped by > > hand; there is also an electric blower. There IS a marked difference = in > > sound when the wind is raised by hand. It's not hand-pumped all the time, > > obviously ... the blower IS a convenience for practicing. > > > > The Great chorus of Principals 8 - 4 - 2 2/3 - 2 is QUITE good for playing > > Bach preludes and fugues, on account of the scaling and voicing; the Swell > > 8' Stopt Diapason and 4' Fugara or 4' Flute makes a FINE secondary chorus. > > The acoustics are spacious; the organ SINGS in the room. > > It isn't the size of the organ that matters; it's the excellence of = the > > builder, AND the musicianship of the organist. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bud      
(back) Subject: modern technology From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:12:09 -0800   That being the case, I'm sure Mr. Lind will be replaced in due time by the latest in modern technology: an organ with a disk drive and a MIDI interface, which eliminates the need for an organist altogether.   Cheers,   Bud, who still knows how to use a manual typewriter too <eg>      
(back) Subject: Re: horses and buggies From: "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:50:44 -0600   I'm confused by this. Does this mean the whole history of music should be =   thrown out for some rap and r 'n b in church? Are we all that ignorant = that we have to dumby down everything. Isn't that boring? These comments = upset me and I begin to see why churches are going to prerecorded music and = laser light shows. Ok, actually I can't even comment on this paragraph, I'll = just let it pass.     Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St. Champaign, IL 61820 217.390.0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net   I wish all you Buddites continued happiness with your constricted instruments and repertoire. I want to gag every time we have these = overlong rehashes of this stuff more often than PBS has fund drives. Go off to the little brown church in the wildwood and/or vale and bore everyone silly = who may be within earshot. Some of us live in the 21st century and are aware = of what our parishioners hear on the radio, TV, CDs, you name it. They won't sit still for what they consider to be boring music and a limited tonal palette. Yearn all you want for a kinder, gentler, simpler life and monochromaticism and one-dimensionality. Most American churchgoers don't want it and neither do I.   Robert Lind ----- Original Message ----- From: Octaaf <octaaf@charter.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: horses and buggies     > Exactly Bud! It's not the size of the instrument. It's scale and = voicing > of the pipes, and the musicianship of the organist that matters. > > You mentioned small organs in RC churches that are satisfying to play = and > more than get the job done. Absolutely true! When the "new" St. Anne's RC > in Lodi, CA was built in the early 1960's, a little 5 rank Moller was > installed. The nave is a modern concrete barn, and was very = acoustically > "live". That little organ was voiced magnificently. A tiny GEM of an > organ! The RC CATHEDRAL in Sacramento is a fine example of a small > unenclosed organ. One of Schlicker's cased unit organs. Only 9 RANKS, but > talk about stunning voicing .... gutsy little organ! Clear and bright > principals, lovely flutes, lush strings, absolutely delicious reeds, > mixtures to die for, and a 32' resultant in the pedal for desert. Not a > piston or Swell shoe to be found anywhere. One of the most musical = organs I > have ever played. Amazing what can be done registering by hand.... > > Cheers, > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> > <snips> > > when congregational singing BECAME a part of the RC liturgy in the 1960s, > > it was discovered that those small, full-toned, well-voiced, encased > > organs managed just FINE. > > > > One such organ we moved and restored for an RC church in Cincinnati, from > > a closed RC church of similar size and acoustics. It can be pumped by > > hand; there is also an electric blower. There IS a marked difference = in > > sound when the wind is raised by hand. It's not hand-pumped all the time, > > obviously ... the blower IS a convenience for practicing. > > > > The Great chorus of Principals 8 - 4 - 2 2/3 - 2 is QUITE good for playing > > Bach preludes and fugues, on account of the scaling and voicing; the Swell > > 8' Stopt Diapason and 4' Fugara or 4' Flute makes a FINE secondary chorus. > > The acoustics are spacious; the organ SINGS in the room. > > It isn't the size of the organ that matters; it's the excellence of = the > > builder, AND the musicianship of the organist. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bud       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>