PipeChat Digest #4742 - Monday, September 6, 2004 Re: Electronic Voicing by "F. Richard Burt" <email@example.com> Re: Electronic Voicing ...... Other Adjustments by "F. Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> [VERY LONG] A Laborious Labor Day weekend by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Accidental Sound by "Keith Zimmerman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Hurricane recipe (was Re: Thanks for organ pricing information; storm by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Re: Ride of the Valkyries transcription by "Karl Moyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Organ Mishaps by <Joshwwhite@aol.com> RE: the death of grammar by "Will Light" <email@example.com> RE: Pet Peeve by "Will Light" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Pet Peeve, back on course by "Jan Nijhuis" <email@example.com> Re: the death of grammar by "Jan Nijhuis" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Electronic Instrument Question by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: Pet Peeve by "Andrew Barss" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic Voicing From: "F. Richard Burt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:34:58 -0600 Hello, PipeChatters: =20 The objective of my work with tonal finishing=20 an electronic organ (aka, digital organ) is to=20 make the very best imitation of a wind-blown=20 pipe organ that the technology will allow. =20 If you are working within a "sampled technology,"=20 you can make the sound loud or soft, fat or=20 skinny, bright or dull, BUT . . . you are tied=20 to the sample loaded in the memory. =20 Many of the modern sampled church organs, pick=20 your preferred brand, also allow the amplitude=20 of the individual notes to be varied. Louder=20 takes on the character of being of larger scale. =20 Softer takes on the character of being of smaller=20 scale. However, in the true sense of scale,=20 louder is not necessarily larger scale and=20 softer is not necessarily smaller scale. That=20 is possibly a subject for a more complex=20 discussion. In some acoustical environments, getting all of=20 the stops to behave properly is a bit of a trick,=20 and may require more than one pass through the=20 regulation process. This is a skill that takes=20 patience and persistence. =20 The first organ that I tonally finished, I was not=20 only setting the character of the stops, but I was=20 learning how the software behaved to achieve the=20 desired result. Now that I have worked on many=20 installations and tonal finishing jobs, I can say=20 that no two of them are alike, even on the same=20 model organs by the same builder. So, it takes=20 a "thinking outside the box" approach to dealing=20 with the room acoustical environment.=20 =20 One property of the sound that continues to amaze=20 me is, when I have adjusted one stop to sound like=20 it should in a given acoustical environment, that=20 sound may not be suited to the overall ensemble=20 when all stops are adjusted to how they should=20 sound as individual stops. =20 On the practical side, I start the organ with the=20 Great Principal 8. All other sounds are adjusted=20 around that sound, as it is the backbone of the=20 tonal structure of the organ. This changes slightly=20 if you prefer a reed-dominated organ, and that can=20 only be resolved by practice, practice, practice,=20 and more practice with the software controls. =20 Remember, unless you are inventing the sound of=20 your organ that has no imitative connection with=20 the traditional wind-blown pipe organ, you need=20 to already know quite a bit about how pipe sounds=20 blend with each other and behave in ensemble. =20 After all, that is what you will be trying to=20 make the digital organ sound like. =20 F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs =20 =20 ..
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic Voicing ...... Other Adjustments From: "F. Richard Burt" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:04:10 -0600 Hello, Bob, et al: =20 You questions seem to be burdened with the desire=20 to identify the "shortcomings" of what is only now=20 becoming a maturing technology. That's okay, for=20 those questions still offer a viable challenge. =20 So, here are some answers: =20 > Are ciphers also available? =20 Yes, but who wants them? =20 > Can one pop a pallet? =20 Yes, but the cost of that technology is decisive,=20 and would only be required for a buyer who has=20 no problem paying whatever the cost would be. =20 > Can one change the action not only to tracker=20 > but also to suspended action. =20 Yes. I played on made by Casio just three days=20 ago. =20 > Can one designate cheap plastic trackers and=20 > various wooden ones to appreciate these subtle=20 > differences? =20 Again, yes. I experienced these subtle properties=20 on a Casio just three days ago. =20 NOW, . . . it will be another matter to see how=20 long it takes for these technologies to find out=20 how to use them advantageously. =20 For instance, we have pressure sensitive keying=20 available on our organs now, but it will be some=20 time yet before that will be connected to affect=20 the speech properties of our organs that can be=20 tonally finished to imitate a north European tracker=20 instrument. Making the conversion from ON/OFF=20 electric keying to pressure sensitive and tactile=20 responsive keying for a wider variety of traditional organ physical speech properties will take a while=20 longer. =20 AND, you have to ask why should we include some=20 of the keying properties that were considered=20 handicaps for about the past 400 years. AND, do=20 you know many people who will pay for the cost=20 of adding those properties? Those costs will not=20 be cheap. The market surveys predict that organ=20 building will be profitable as it stays close to=20 the normal expectations of a greater percentage=20 of the people playing organ in church. =20 Since this is the last summer holiday, grill away. <grins> =20 The digital organ is only beginning to be a viable=20 imitation of a wind-blown pipe organ. Speaking of=20 what could be, . . . you ain't seen nothing yet. =20 However, I believe that much of what could be will=20 not be put into production, because it doesn't make=20 an improvement in the perceived value of the organ=20 when purchased. =20 There is an old philosophy called the 80/20 rule. =20 Applied to this discussion, 80 percent of the market=20 will continue insisting that the tonal quality of=20 the digital organ be improved, and only 20 percent=20 will continue to insist that we load what could be=20 a reasonably priced church organ with hold-over=20 features from the past that do not affect the sound=20 being produced. An organ factory needs to go with=20 the 80 percentile to stay in business. =20 F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs =20 =20 ..
(back) Subject: [VERY LONG] A Laborious Labor Day weekend From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:08:04 -0500 A Laborious Labor Day weekend As I have expressed before, I've been on a tear lately. I had been concerned about taking medicine for my bitchiness and my arthritis, afraid that I would be consigned to use the pills the rest of my life or until my liver was destroyed (they are not the same - I have met some perfectly preserved pickled livers walking around these parts). I was particularly concerned about long-term use of Vioxx, because it is always in the news. So I had discontinued the meds a few weeks ago and had not refilled the prescriptions. When Sand saw me in Jackson I was still halfway civil to strangers - that began to evaporate quickly. Finally, I realized that maybe I should have a 'come to Jesus' meeting with my physician and re-evaluate my situation, which is what I did Friday, taking off from work for the day. After a long discussion, we both decided that the benefits were far outweighing any side effects, and I started back on the regimen. He thought I was charming, by the way - makes me worry about his competence. But what a hunk. I was slated to substitute for my friend at the Crestview Methodist church, where the Kenneth Jones 2-manual tracker resides. I had planned my program before messing with the therapeutic levels of medication in my system. So this week I realized during practice, when I started obsessively second-guessing my playing of music that had been under my fingers for years, that I should simplify the program to avoid the very problems I was experiencing at practice. I took a whirlpool bath to try to soak some of the ache out of the joints - you would think in 90+ temperatures in Florida arthritis would not be this bad. And instead of the Allegretto from Mendelssohn's Sonata 4, not that difficult but something I like to play without thinking about it, I pulled out the Thalban-Ball Elegy for my prelude. Even though the room is dead acoustically, I decided to play it by the book, not adding to the registration. On my way to church, I stopped by the Methodist church in DeFuniak Springs, yes, the one considering a pipe organ. Friday evening I had been diligently working on editing book #3, minding my own business, bothering no one, when I received the phone call. At first all I could think of was that the committee woman was breaking my train of thought. But the more she talked, the more excited I became about another pipe organ in Walton County. Of course, I said to myself, all this is just talk - once they hear numbers they will run screaming to the Rodgers dealer. But I referred her to the APOBA publications (thank you, David), and gave her some basic questions and ideas that they should be considering, without any discussion of numbers. She threw out some numbers, but I was very cautious - I didn't want to build up hopes needlessly or throw her into shock. Anyway, back to the church. Walking in, I was alone and able to examine the room in peace. This place is somewhat familiar to me, but without any organ of note I always concentrated on the windows and pleasant dimensions of the room. While I was trying to gauge rough dimensions, an elderly gentleman walked in. We spoke. I asked him his opinion of the length and width of the room. He walked off the room and made some guesses. Then he asked, "If I might be so bold, why are you asking these questions? Are you going to blow up the church?" I looked at him, a very serious expression on my face. "Exactly," I said. "One must calculate the precise amount of dynamite needed." We both started laughing. Then I explained that I was compiling information to assist the organ committee. The room is roughly 80 feet by 20 feet, rectangular. The choir/altar/instrument area up front is probably 15-20 feet, running across the entire width, with some slight concavity/curving inward of the outer wall. The ceilings must be roughly 20 feet tall or more. There are four long stained glass windows on each side, and a large tri-window front and center behind the altar. The chancel holds 30 pews, each pew easily seating 10-12. There is an additional back pew on each side almost as long as the regular pews. The choir could hold as many as 50, but there are 30 theatre seats. So my guess of 300-400 capacity is pretty much right on. The console is in the front choir area, as well as a grand piano. The floors are inevitable crimson carpet, and there are of course red pew cushions on each pew. The walls and windows are pretty solid. I noticed what looked like ceiling tiles on panels of the back wall - unusual. There is no gallery. Acoustics aren't bad, but could be better. Worship style is very protestant. I toyed with the idea of visiting the church for next Sunday's service to familiarize myself more with their current style and the acoustics, because I don't remember much about the latter (it's been a few years). I left the information sent me so far by listmembers down the street at a committee member's house. Talking to her briefly (her children and I went to school together, and are good friends, and she was my substitute at St. A's), I realized that I knew 4 of the 5 committee members. I may know the fifth, but the name was not identified, and I didn't ask. Two of the members are gun-ho for a pipe organ if one can be obtained. A third member is the former organist, and is the reason the Hammond made its home there so many years - she feared she couldn't play anything else. However, she is retired and doesn't play any more. The fourth member is the accountant-type of the group, so the pocketbook will be his principal guide. Driving the thirty miles to my playing gig, I arrived and ran through my music quickly. The new minister is not warm and fuzzy at all, very hard to chat with. The assistant minister is a wonderful, warm person who prays well, and actually sang a solo today. Program was as follows: Prelude: Elegy - G. T. Thalban-Ball Call to Worship - choir Greeting Welcome/announcements Hymn: To God be the glory Affirmation of faith/Gloria Patri Pastoral Prayer: Be thou my vision Offertory anthem- choir Doxology Solo anthem - assistant minister Sermon Communion hymn: Let us break bread together Music during communion (mostly improvised): Grace greater than all our sins Amazing grace Ubi caritas - adapted from Durufle Fairest Lord Jesus - an RSCM arrangement Draw us in the Spirit's tether - Friedell Aberystwyth Final benediction verse: Fill my cup, Lord Postlude: Toccata in G - Theodore Dubois The pianist joined me on the first hymn. I have a sneaking suspicion the music director told her to, afraid I wouldn't play it fast enough. So we clipped along through that one with little room to breathe. And I finally had the epiphany - I need to give up varying the registration for verses/stanzas. The music director does not believe in ANY pause. This is a choir that is largely unchallenged, and therefore could be much better than it is. I played the Gloria Patri listed in the bulletin, which happened to be the wrong one. I could tell from the first note the choir sang, but we were committed by that time, and they improvised well. The music director acknowledged the mistake, and I refrained from saying that lawyers, unlike choir members, actually read the bulletin. The minister preached on grace, and pointed to a bunch of hymns on the subject. However, he really spent very little time explaining the concept of grace, other than mouthing the standard pastoral definition, and I got the impression he wasn't sure what it was. As a closet Calvinist, I am well steeped in the doctrine of grace, and found it a little irritating to hear a pastor dance around the subject. But that's why the music on grace for communion - I found one in the hymnal he had forgotten about. I did not feel awfully excited today about the service or my performance. I didn't mess up anything other than the wrong Gloria Patri and a belated 'Amen' at the end of the last ditty. But as I have complained about myself before, I have too high a standard for what is worship. Apparently I had been trying too hard during my last sub gigs here - I received a plethora of compliments today. One woman actually stopped her vehicle in mid-stride to address me on the street and tell me how wonderful my music was. And there was no alcohol in the grape juice. Go figure. Maybe in another week I'll be nice again. Let's hope I don't have any major discussions with my boss or any job interviews in the meantime. The floors are mopped, and I'm still awaiting my hurricane recipe - Frances is going to be really tired once he/she gets here, and will need a pick-me-up. So will I. Gotta fold clothes - that's what Labor Day is for. Get to work. Glenda Sutton email@example.com
(back) Subject: Accidental Sound From: "Keith Zimmerman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:11:56 -0400 James said, "One thing that I've found is that dropping a hymnal on the pedalboard of a pipe organ or a digital instrument with the 16' pedal reed drawn creates the same stunned silence from the preacher and the congregation." I've always wanted to do a very quick "touch" of low C + C# on the pedal with a soft 16' Reed just as the bride and groom were kneeling at the = altar. Might not sound as accurate as one of those remote controlled electronic Whoopee Cushions. Of course, with all the purists on this list, I suppose that the only true Whoopee Cushion is the original red rubber one and that the battery = operated remote controlled version with its fake electronically generated sound is simply for those of us who want to sacrifice quality of sound for a = variety of different sounds (to keep this on topic). Keith - who's not in a very good mood today.
(back) Subject: RE: Hurricane recipe (was Re: Thanks for organ pricing information; storm) From: "Glenda" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:13:56 -0500 Please - no mutton. Glenda Sutton firstname.lastname@example.org (wondering about her punctuation - need to take my pills . . . ) -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Robert Lind Perhaps we could find a Spoonerizing gourmand who would be willing not only to travel but also to risk life and limb to help you with the proper ingredients. In so doing, we would Send a glutton To Glenda Sutton
(back) Subject: Re: Ride of the Valkyries transcription From: "Karl Moyer" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 13:17:46 -0400 It is VERY HARD!! If you wish a real thrill, try to get to an event where Ken Cowan plays it on an organ worthy of the piece. Cordially, Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA On 9/6/04 10:10 AM, "Joel Armengaud" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Could someone comment on the difficulty of the Ride of the Valkyries, as > adapted for the organ by Lemare...? > > Thanks > > -Joel Armengaud >
(back) Subject: Organ Mishaps From: <Joshwwhite@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:20:15 EDT About a year ago a similar occurrence happened to me. I was just about = to start playing for communion, when I turned a page in the hymnal and the = entire hymnal fell off the music rack. It proceeded to smash down the entire = row of great stop tabs and bounce off the great keyboard, and land on the pedalboard. I had already selected great to pedal, so it caused two loud = outbursts from the organ. I think people were more appreciative that it woke them = up, than mad that it disturbed them during communion-as one person said I = should do that more often! Also, about once a year about this time, the organ starts developing = cyphers. These cyphers effect all the ranks on the great chest. It is = funny because it seems these cyphers will hold over for exactly the amount of = time you hold the note. One particularly bad year, there were 5-6 cyphers = (all fall into the key of F major of course) and every hymn was affected by = several notes holding over for several seconds at the end of the hymn. Every = time it would happen people would look up at me as if I were forgetting to let = some notes off. Finally one sunday, before the choral call to prayer, the = pastor told the congregation that the organist, in fact, knew exactly when to = let off of the notes, but that the organ, unfortunately, did not. I was appreciative of him doing that! The only note cyphering so far this year E17, so it hasnt caused many problems. We will have to wait for the fall tuning to get it fixed. Josh White In a message dated 9/6/2004 10:02:47 AM Central Standard Time, email@example.com writes: One thing that I've found is that dropping a hymnal on the pedalboard of a pipe organ or a digital instrument with the 16' pedal reed drawn creates the same stunned silence from the preacher and the Congregation. (Not that I'll admit to ever having done that myself. No, not me. [Yeah, right.]) James
(back) Subject: RE: the death of grammar From: "Will Light" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:29:33 +0100 In the village where my parents lived, in the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire, old-timers could still be heard greeting each other with, "'Ow bist 'ee then owd butt?" (Translation: "How are you then, you old ram?" - Well the Foresters are keepers of sheep!) Will Light Coventry UK
(back) Subject: RE: Pet Peeve From: "Will Light" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:29:33 +0100 The chemical element symbolized by Al is spelled (or spelt) "ALUMINIUM" = in English. That is why it is pronounced al-you-min-ee-um. In American it = is spelled "ALUMINUM" and pronounced accordingly. We have to distinguish between American and English, as they are two similar but very distinct languages these days. Will Light Coventry UK -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Barss Sent: 06 September 2004 01:37 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Pet Peeve Cole, On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:11 PM, Cole wrote: > Please, don't get me started; it is FORmidable, not forMIDable. That one is a British versus North American pronunciation difference. I=20 grew up with many British teachers who always used forMIDable rather=20 than FORmidable. Then there's CONtroversy and conTROVersy -- another variation in=20 British versus North America pronunciation. One of my other favourites=20 (sorry, you're American, "favorites" :-) ) is aluminum where, in North=20 American, we pronounce phonetically as "a - lu - mi - num" whereas our=20 British friends tend towards "al - yu - min - ee - um" But hey, vive la diff=E9rence ... oh wait ... that's French! Regards, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org Administration: mailto:email@example.com List-Subscribe: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> List-Digest: <mailto:email@example.com> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: RE: Pet Peeve, back on course From: "Jan Nijhuis" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 04:51:46 +0800 Could not copy the message to the digest, there was no plain text part
(back) Subject: Re: the death of grammar From: "Jan Nijhuis" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 05:20:08 +0800 Could not copy the message to the digest, there was no plain text part
(back) Subject: Electronic Instrument Question From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:27:00 EDT PipeChatters: Here is a serious list of questions regarding electronic instruments, since the discussion has moved on to the adjustments made regarding = levels, balances, and how these units are installed. It is understandable that if a pipe sound were sampled and faithfully reproduced through a specific system (a sound generating source, = amplifier, and something to turn it back into sound, such as a speaker), that sound = would, in fact, be quite adjustable and quite faithful. My main question is that when one is trying to take several hundred of = these and feed them through the SAME system, or even twenty or thirty = speaker cabinets or "channels," is there not a certain amount of cancelling and homogenization? A pipe organ relies on hundreds or thousands of individual = sound sources interacting with each other and their environment as their energy = radiates outward. I imagine that when all of this electronically generated tone is summed and then fed through a very limited number of directional devices, = much of that independence, vitality, warmth, and interaction is lost or cancelled = out. I have read increasingly about stereo imaging, multiple speaker = cabinets, and the like, but it just seems to me that once one decides that any sound-producing system is going to do more than one thing, the compromises = build up. There must be some scientific and mathematical term and explanation = for the phenomenon. But it would seem to me that all the sampling and high technology in the world is somewhat muted by forcing it through the = blender of limited channels and through the pastry bag of limited loudspeakers. Does this explain the flat, sterile, soulless sound, even when = sampling the finest of artistic pipework? And is it that very "perfected" sterility = that pushes 93% of all purchasers of organ-type instruments to pipeless instruments? It is a shocking statistic, so there must be a reason. Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/ ..
(back) Subject: Re: Pet Peeve From: "Andrew Barss" <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:47:33 -0300 Well, if we're distinguishing between English and American, let's not=20 forget Canadian which is, in its own right, distinct from each of the=20 others ... eh? :-) Regards, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia (Canada) On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 05:29 PM, Will Light wrote: > The chemical element symbolized by Al is spelled (or spelt)=20 > "ALUMINIUM" in > English. That is why it is pronounced al-you-min-ee-um. In American it=20= > is > spelled "ALUMINUM" and pronounced accordingly. We have to distinguish > between American and English, as they are two similar but very = distinct > languages these days. > > Will Light > Coventry UK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf = Of > Andrew Barss > Sent: 06 September 2004 01:37 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Pet Peeve > > Cole, > > > On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:11 PM, Cole wrote: > >> Please, don't get me started; it is FORmidable, not forMIDable. > > > That one is a British versus North American pronunciation difference. = I > grew up with many British teachers who always used forMIDable rather > than FORmidable. > > Then there's CONtroversy and conTROVersy -- another variation in > British versus North America pronunciation. One of my other favourites > (sorry, you're American, "favorites" :-) ) is aluminum where, in North > American, we pronounce phonetically as "a - lu - mi - num" whereas our > British friends tend towards "al - yu - min - ee - um" > > But hey, vive la diff=E9rence ... oh wait ... that's French! > > Regards, > Andrew Barss > Halifax, Nova Scotia > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > List-Subscribe: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:email@example.com> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > List-Digest: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> >