PipeChat Digest #4753 - Thursday, September 9, 2004
 
Re: Trinity Wall Street
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: MORE ORCHESTRAS, LESS ORGAN!?!?!?!?!?
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re:Being happy in your church!
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Problems
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Mechanical Action
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
RE: What is happening to today's church
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
Re: Trinity Wall Street organ damage
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Mechanical Action
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Trinity Wall Street organ damage
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Trinity Wall Street organ damage
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Being happy in your church!
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: Being happy in your church!
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re:Being happy in your church!
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
moller files
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: What is happening to today's church
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: moller files
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Re: moller files
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: moller files
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: moller files
  by <AEolianSkinner@aol.com>
Re: moller files
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Files
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Rochester Wurlitzer Concert Reminder (cross-posted)
  by "Kenneth Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Trinity Wall Street From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:08:33 EDT   >What is the current talk about the future of the organ? Is the current >installation what will be? Is there any effort to restore the past >instrument? Build a new one? > >Just wondering. > >Glenda Sutton   I understand that the church wants to restore the A-S pipe organ if any of = the pipes are salvageable or get a new one once the insurance settlement = is finalized. There was a lot of corrosion of the pipes from the 9/11 attacks--the vapors of the burning fuel and smoke from the burning = buildings supposedly started to corrode a lot of the pipework and the particulates in the air = got into the chest mechanisms damaging leather and other parts of the pitman action. The church knew it would be a several year process before all of = this was settled, then the builder or rebuilder selection process, then = actually having the work done. Hence the Epiphany organ. One of my friends just did a restoration of a large Aeolian-Skinner that = had no damage but just needed releathering and general TLC of a 65+ year old instrument (it also got a new Turner console to replace the non-A-S = console it had) , the chambers needed replastering, and the church did some chancel renovations while everything was going on...total time for this project = was about two years. This was in a church where they knew who was going to do the = work and no insurance fights were part of the project. Add in the other difficulties and the work time becomes drastically longer. Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: MORE ORCHESTRAS, LESS ORGAN!?!?!?!?!? From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:18:29 EDT   At my church, we also have an orchestra made up of all volunteers. There =   are approximately 45 players. They play one Sunday a month and on the = Sundays that they play, they play during the Prelude and the Offertory and also = on the opening hymn. If the anthem that we will be singing that day has an orchestration, we will get it and they will play along with the organ. = Out of the orchestra, we also have a smaller ensemble that does play some = instrumental and keyboard arrangements more frequently for Offertory pieces. The orchestra members all give of their time and range from high school students to working middle aged people. More and more people who are instrumentalists from the congregation have come out of the woodwork to be = a part of the group. It's been exciting to see the group grow over the past few years from just a handful of players to the kind of group it is now. The congregation loves them. However, they will never replace the organ = for accompanimental purposes. It just offers yet another musical outlet for people at my church and enhances our music ministry. Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC  
(back) Subject: Re:Being happy in your church! From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:36:53 EDT   >I know that there must be more organists who are happy in their = situation >than me..... and Monty. More and more I am thankful for my situation. = I >would like to hear some more happy stories.   I love my church for so many different reasons...I had been one of the interim organists for three years before I accepted the permanent = position. I joined the church prior to becoming a full-fledged staff member because I = felt so much a part of the church--there were several things that happened to = me that really showed me how much the congregation, choir, deacons and = Pastor did care and that this church was indeed MY church. It was after those experiences that I knew that I was supposed to accept the permanent = position. I thank God everyday for my position on the ministry staff. It has been = a blessing. I look forward to every Sunday. I'm sure that this sounds so = very "Pollyanna," but after some of the absolutely hellish experiences I went through at Calvary Church in Charlotte, this is the extreme opposite. = Friendship Baptist lives up to the name. The fact that the music program is strong = and growing, the church is exploding at the seams, and that the = congregation's ministry is one that focuses on the community the nation and the world = rather than only looking inward on itself only further cements me as to where I = will be for a long time. The new organ and the new sanctuary are just icing = on the cake... Where are all the others who are happy in their ministries???? Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte  
(back) Subject: Re: Problems From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:51:37 +0800   Thank you Morton. Bob,'   ----- Original Message ----- From: <littlebayus@yahoo.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: Problems     > Bob: > > After you subscribe, set your subscription to "nomail" > as I have done. You ought to able to go to the > piporg-l web site and read the various postings there > when you have time.  
(back) Subject: Mechanical Action From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:07:22 -0500   Sorry, I should have changed the heading. Roy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roy Redman=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Pet Peaves O'mine, pronunciations etc     There is still another type of all-sticker action organ. There is a = small, rather late model Rieger, in a Lutheran Church here in Fort Worth = where the stickers proceed directly upward from the keys into the = windchest. When I first saw this, I was amazed, and wondered how it = could possibly work. Upon opening the pallet box, I discovered that the = stickers worked on a pallet extension, thus opening the pallet in a = rocker motion. Very clever!! This organ also has a mechanical coupler = which can couple second manual to first or first to second. This is = done with backfalls under the first manual and an aluminum C channel = which can be rocked to change the fulcrum from bottom to top of the = backfall! Ah, the legacy of GG. Roy Redman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Speller=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:55 AM Subject: RE: Pet Peaves O'mine, pronunciations etc     There is, however, a design of mechanical action in which there are = no trackers and in which a sticker runs directly from the key and opens = the pallet. This is called a "pin pallet" action, and was sometimes = used in small chamber organs in the seventeenth and eighteenth = centuries.   John Speller   Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote: Yes- ditto! A tracker is just a long thin bit of wood which pulls = something at its other end. A similar bit of wood that pushes something is = called a "sticker", but nobody ever calls an organ a "sticker action". = Maybe because it might suggest that something "sticks"  
(back) Subject: RE: What is happening to today's church From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:03:27 -0400   Larry Wheelock commented on my earlier post:   "How nice for you that you have found a situation which you find fulfilling, and I'm glad you are happy there, but please do not presume to decide for someone else what would or should make him or her happy." and "But, as long as you are happy 'making-do' then there is no reason for you to aspire to anything greater."   I apologize if it sounded like I intended my comments about attitude to be applicable to anyone else. I can see how they might be interpreted that = way, but it wasn't my intention and I could have been more careful. The intent of my note was to share my perceptions of the state of the particular congregation where I work, but I did indeed veer off into some discussion = of personal preferences, too.   I *will* say as a generalization that I think there are tradeoffs involved in almost any job position one accepts. I'm satisfied with mine, = especially given that I had little playing experience and that in this area where = there are few Lutherans I'd decided that my Number 1 priority was to find a job = in a ELCA church. And since I doubt I'll be moving to Minnesota in this lifetime <g>, the church where I play now is where I'll probably be for = the foreseeable future, assuming they're happy with me. Realistically there = are only two other congregations within convenient driving distance which = would represent "anything greater" for me to aspire to. One is quite large and affluent and will likely always attract a more proficient organist than I. The other church's organist has been with them for some years and isn't going anywhere soon.   Incidentally, ever since I began playing again a couple years ago (after a long hiatus) I've secured practice time on a good quality nearby pipe organ--first a Casavant, now a Schantz. I get my pipes fix that way. It feels like a good compromise and is one that might also be available to = many organists should they choose to avail themselves of the opportunities that likely exist in a lot of geographic areas (not all, I realize).   It might be interesting to hear discussion of what organists' priorities are in deciding where to work, which of those have served well and which haven't. I think we've more than adequately covered the "any church that really wants one can have a pipe organ" thing.   Emily A.      
(back) Subject: Re: Trinity Wall Street organ damage From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:37:17 EDT   Monty: Did you get to see the toxicology reports, the breakdown of the = various particulate samples taken from within various windchests, and get to read anything about how the smoke effected the pipes? What factors made them = the only organ pipes in that area of the city so affected? Did they ever figure out = how all of that material got into the organ when the church was closed and the =   organ off? I realize that the documentation must fill reams of paper, yet it = might help those in the organ conservation world to see those documents and = review them at upcoming preservation conferences.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Mechanical Action From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:55:45 +0800   Later than that, John. late 19th century for some. An Alfred Kirkland = organ (built 1890) in this town has that kind of action. The stickers = are short and rectangular in shape and the great stickers actually go = through a rectangular shaped hole in the swell keys.=20 The swell to great coupler pushes blocks up between the manual keyboards = so that pressing a great key pushes up on the back end of the swell key = depressing it at the business end .The organ is very small - 2 stops on = each manual and one on the pedal. Date 1890. There are only two Kirkland = organs in Australia. The other is in Carcoa in NSW; they are both of = similar size though the Carcoa has only one manual and no pedal clavier. This local Kirkland does good service in a small church which has a = total congregation of about 50 people and attendances at the services = of about 30 . It is quite adequate for the purpose in a church which can = seat a maximum of about 60. The organ has been restored and is in fine = condition. The hand pump will still operate but there is an electric = blower.   STOPLIST: Great: Open Diapason 8 (stopped wood bass), Stopped diapason = 8. Swell: Gamba 8 (second st.wd.bass), Principal 4. Pedal: Bordun (sic) = 16. Couplers: Sw. to Gt., Gt to Pedal.=20   The Bordun has obviously been added after the organ was built. The stop = name is of a slightly different style of print and the Bordun pipes have = a Sydney name on them. Further evidence of the later addition of the = pedal clavier is the fact that the Great to Pedal drawstop is under the = manuals and the player has to reach under down at about left knee height = to pull the stop on. The mechanical action to the pedals goes under the = floor through long trackers. This action was lost in transit and had to = be redesigned and made by the restorer Patrick Elms and Co. of Albany. = (West Australia),. The swell is operated by a swivelling metal lever at = the extreme right hand end of the pedal board.=20   AND - WAIT FOR IT!!!!! THIS pipe organ replaced an electronic organ!=20 Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roy Redman=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: Mechanical Action     Sorry, I should have changed the heading. Roy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roy Redman=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Pet Peaves O'mine, pronunciations etc     There is still another type of all-sticker action organ. There is a = small, rather late model Rieger, in a Lutheran Church here in Fort Worth = where the stickers proceed directly upward from the keys into the = windchest. When I first saw this, I was amazed, and wondered how it = could possibly work. Upon opening the pallet box, I discovered that the = stickers worked on a pallet extension, thus opening the pallet in a = rocker motion. Very clever!! This organ also has a mechanical coupler = which can couple second manual to first or first to second. This is = done with backfalls under the first manual and an aluminum C channel = which can be rocked to change the fulcrum from bottom to top of the = backfall! Ah, the legacy of GG. Roy Redman
(back) Subject: Re: Trinity Wall Street organ damage From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:02:37 -0700   Didn't I read somewhere that a service was in progress and that the blower was ON, and no one thought to shut it OFF? Of course, the power went out shortly thereafter. I remember the article talked about all the dust and debris falling from the rafters and ceiling of the nave.   Isn't the situation at St. John the Divine similar, albeit for a different cause (the fire outside the north transept)? Though the organ wasn't in use, the cathedral was filled with smoke.   Cheers,   Bud   TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > Monty: > Did you get to see the toxicology reports, the breakdown of the = various > particulate samples taken from within various windchests, and get to = read > anything about how the smoke effected the pipes? What factors made them = the only > organ pipes in that area of the city so affected? Did they ever figure = out how > all of that material got into the organ when the church was closed and = the > organ off? > I realize that the documentation must fill reams of paper, yet it = might > help those in the organ conservation world to see those documents and = review > them at upcoming preservation conferences. > > Sebastian M. Gluck > New York City > http://www.glucknewyork.com/ > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Trinity Wall Street organ damage From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:22:38 EDT   >Did you get to see the toxicology reports, the breakdown of the various particulate samples >taken from within various windchests, and get to = read anything about how the smoke >effected the pipes? What factors made them = the only organ pipes in that area of the city so >affected? Did they ever figure = out how all of that material got into the organ when the church >was closed = and the organ off?   I am going on what I was told, but given the fact that Trinity is only a matter of feet from Ground Zero and that the church is open during the = day, I would guess that smoke, dust and debris probably did make its way into the = church and organ. I do know that the organ has been carefully packed and = stored until everything has been settled and decisions can be made as to what = will be or can be done with the Aeolian-Skinner. I'm not sure what other = churches are on opposing blocks or even IF there are any other churches that close = to the WTC to have been affected in the manner that Trinity was. Trinity's building was spared damage by a number of trees in the churchyard which = happened to catch a lot of the flying debris, sparing the windows. On the = church's website, there is a lot of the information about how the trees saved the building from a lot of damage. However, they could not filter the acrid = smoke from entering open doors and windows nor filter out the the particulate that = was in the air. I served an apprenticeship in church music at a church immediately = following my graduation from college. Several weeks before I started my = internship, the church had a fire in the basement, and smoke made it's way into the sanctuary and organ chambers. While it did no physical damage to the = organ, the smoke did begin to do some corrosion to the pipe metal and the church was =   afraid that the leathers in the organ would be damaged, too. The church = hired a consultant to fight with the insurance company, since the insurance = company felt that there was no damage to the organ. It took the church several = years to finally settle with the insurance company and be able to get the organ =   cleaned. Even after a year, there was some visible corrosion on the = pipes from the smoke and we did have problems with ciphers due to contact corrosion = and problems in the chests. Even on a very minor level, I saw what a little = bit of smoke damage can do, so I can only guess as to what a significant = amount of smoke and debris can do. Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Being happy in your church! From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:23:08 EDT   We are told to be content in whatever state we find ourselves. (even = Texas, I assume) . I am content with my position, even if they have an Allen (3 years old, but I wasn't here when it was purchased). We still use just = the piano and organ to accompany the hymns. This Sunday morning Keith and I are = doing an organ duet for the offertory. Lee  
(back) Subject: Re: Being happy in your church! From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:39:33 EDT   Lee,   Texas is a very happy state. I know, because I lived there for half my = life and even tought school in Houston for several years. Texas is Mississippi = with good roads. And Fort Worth is a suburb of Oklahoma City. Texas is also = full of Anglicans and Lutherans. Don't let the fact that the former governor = put people to death with glee color your view of our happy former Republic. = After all, we've got guns!   Ducking for cover, Bill H. Boston.  
(back) Subject: Re:Being happy in your church! From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:54:32 -0700 (PDT)     --- RMB10@aol.com wrote: [snip]   I'm very glad that you, Monty, are very happy with your current ministry...   I'm very happy to serve as a sub in the summers... I feel that is my current calling, and up to the present the churches I have served seem to be very grateful that I was available and willing to help out when needed...   Best wishes to all...     Morton Belcher fellow list member....     > > Where are all the others who are happy in their > ministries???? > > Monty Bennett > Friendship Baptist Church > Charlotte > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: moller files From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:09:22 EDT   can someone tell me what company got the historical files from moller when =   they folded?   thanks.   scot  
(back) Subject: Re: What is happening to today's church From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:03:08 -0400   On 9/9/04 9:03 AM, "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> wrote:   > in this area where there are few Lutherans I'd decided that my Number 1 > priority was to find a job in a ELCA church. And since I doubt I'll be = moving > to Minnesota in this lifetime <g>, the church where I play now is where = I'll > probably be for the foreseeable future, assuming they're happy with me.   Don't overlook NON-Minnesota ELCAism. Both east and west coasts offer a different stripe, and some excellent music programs. In my opinion, significantly better than the norm for the Midwest.   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: moller files From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:14:14 -0700 (PDT)     --- BlueeyedBear@aol.com wrote:   > can someone tell me what company got the historical > files from moller when > they folded? > > thanks. > > scot >   It is said that they are now under the aegis of the Organ Historical Society and stored somewhere in New England...   Go to the Organ Historical Society web site and track down the archivist, Stephen Pinel, who can wax vitrolic on this question...   Best wishes to all,     Morton Belcher fellow list member...       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: moller files From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:21:18 -0500   >can someone tell me what company got the historical files from >moller when they folded?   Scot   The Organ Historical Society has most of the Moller records and they are stored up in New England where they are not completely accessible easily. Stephen Pinel, the Archvist, does go up there several times a year to track down information for people.   As i understand it, they are not in the best array, they need to be organized. Several people are working on a Moller Opus List to be published by the OHS and hopefully, in the course of working on that book the records will end up being better organized. I know that the OHS is also willing to accept donations for the Moller Archives in order to get them to a usable state and get them moved closer to the main American Organ Archives which are housed in Princeton, NJ.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: moller files From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:27:31 -0500   I heard at some point that Allen has them.   Russ Greene       On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:14 AM, littlebayus@yahoo.com wrote:   >> can someone tell me what company got the historical >> files from moller when >> they folded?    
(back) Subject: Re: moller files From: <AEolianSkinner@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:00:03 EDT   I thought Rodgers had them   Best Regards, Gregory Hinson    
(back) Subject: Re: moller files From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:29:33 -0700   Allen had them originally, thinking (I suppose) to promote their scheme for making combo organs out of Artistes ... for whatever reason, that didn't happen, and they donated the files to the Organ Historical Society, which is still seeking donations to organize them so they can be made available to researchers, as was noted earlier.   I am given to understand that Rodgers has at least SOME of AEOLIAN-SKINNER'S papers, including some of G. Donald Harrison's scales .... but I don't recall seeing that verified by anyone.   Cheers,   Bud   AEolianSkinner@aol.com wrote:   > I thought Rodgers had them > > Best Regards, > Gregory Hinson      
(back) Subject: Files From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:31:40 EDT   Hi List ............ I think that Bud and others have the Moller files stated properly. I am sure that they are now the property of the OHS. As to the = Aeolian-Skinner files, most of what exists are now in the hands of Ed Stout in San = Francisco. (The Rodgers portions of the files were sent to Ed) Rocky Mountain Organ Co., Inc. William S (Bill) Hesterman, President   Representing Austin Organs, Inc.    
(back) Subject: Rochester Wurlitzer Concert Reminder (cross-posted) From: "Kenneth Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:34:15 -0400   A reminder that RTOS starts the 2004/2005 concert season with its annual FREE admission event on Saturday, September 11 at 8 pm. We are proud to present Tom Hazleton playing the 4/23 Wurlitzer at the Auditorium Theatre, 875 East Main Street, Rochester, NY 14605 for an outstanding evening of musical variety. Tom's program will include a = section of patriotic selections as a commemoration of that tragic WTC event on the same date in 2001.   The RTOS website at http://theatreorgans.com/rochestr/ gives driving directions and much information and pictures about this event as well as general information about the Society and our two Wurlitzers. There are = over 2500 new seats waiting for this event - please accept our invitation to = this event as our guests.   BTW, the wet Frances remnants are leaving the area as this message is = being sent and the forecast for Saturday is dry and in the mid-70s!   Ken Evans, RTOS Director (past-President) kevans1@rochester.rr.com