PipeChat Digest #4766 - Tuesday, September 14, 2004
 
Re: shutter mechanisms again (more)
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: shutter mechanisms again
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: shutter mechanisms again
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: shutter mechanisms again
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: shutter mechanisms again
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: shutter mechanisms again
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Onward, Christian Soldiers
  by "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net>
Re: shutter mechanisms again
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Swell Shutters
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
RE: shutter mechanisms again
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
RE: Annual Dutch Dash  - apologies
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
RE: Annual Dutch Dash  - apologies
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: Swell Shutters
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
(no subject)
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Onward, Christians, to the Zoo
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Zoo Question
  by "Dersch Bruce" <bedersch2001@yahoo.com>
Re: (no subject)
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
If you're in England, I could use your help...
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: If you're in England, I could use your help...
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: If you're in England, I could use your help...
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: Swell Shutters
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: Swell Shutters
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: Onward Christian Soldiers
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
 

(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again (more) From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:51:38 EDT   In a message dated 9/12/2004 9:48:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, andy@ablorgans.com writes: One 16-stage swell motor is a big project for someone to build. Making a bunch of little single-stage actuators on an assembly = line makes a lot of sense in a factory-type setting, utilizing unskilled labor = to its fullest. Moller was a big factory setting (I've heard they even had a =   union). Were there any other builders who used them? Have any small = shops Depending on the locatino and whether the shades were vertical or = horizontal, Reuter uses both styles of shade motors (both individual pneumatics, and whiffletree motors.   Whiffletree motors are also easy to build in a 'mass-produciton' style of building, as most of the internal pneumatic motors in a whiffletree engine = are the same size/stroke. Casavant and Skinner both used whiffletree motors, = and they are still built by OSI.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:06:30 EDT   In a message dated 9/13/2004 2:26:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = mead@eagle.ca writes: Any Wicks organs I've seen have the individual units for their expression shutters. AjMead I service several Wicks organs, and all of the ones that I service have multi-stage motors with traces that move all the shades in unison. the = motors are built similarly to the ones OSI builds (exposed bags-between-boards = style), with a primary box on the bottom.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:10:40 EDT   In a message dated 9/13/2004 2:46:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, quilisma@cox.net writes: I've also seen organs by other builders where the first couple of shades in a normal vertical square frame were divided into two, or even three sections, so that one didn't get a big rush of sound when the first shade opened. One of the organs that I amintain is a Reuter (built in the 1950's) that = uses a 2-stage motor for the first two shades that open (this also avoids the = big "burp" of sound that happens when the shades open wide on the first = stage). the 2 shades with the double pneumatics have double primary valves to = operate the 2 stages of opening for each of the 2-position shades.)   RIck in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:42:08 -0700   In the organ I'm thinking of, the shades were floor-to-ceiling on the front of the chamber ... I'd guess that one would get less DIRECT sound from the shades BELOW the level of the pipes.   Cheers,   Bud     I wrote:   > <<I've also seen organs by other builders where the first couple of > shades in a normal vertical square frame were divided into two, or > even three sections, so that one didn't get a big rush of sound when > the first shade opened.>>   BlueeyedBear@aol.com wrote: > > bud, that's the way this organ is built -- shutters in two rows. > > question -- what is the difference when the lowest horizontal shade > opens first, as opposed to the highest one? > > scot in spokane > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for > pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : > http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: > <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: > <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: > <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:04:33 -0400   To further complicate matters, since the sound of pipes in a swell box sounds directly out in some ways and through reflection in other ways...what you are hearing is a composite waveshape...and we all know that's the deadly sin of digitals, no?   Wasn't it E. Power that said, "one pipe in the open is worth two pipes in the box?"   --   noel jones, aago noeljones@frogmusic.com ----------------------------------- 1 877 249-5251 Athens, TN USA   www.frogmusic.com Rodgers Organ Users Group Frog Music Press - Organ and MIDI Music FMP Organ Music Search Service Rodgers Organ Design & Voicing Services    
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:12:24 EDT   In a message dated 9/13/2004 4:05:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gedeckt@usit.net writes: what you are hearing is a composite waveshape...and we all know that's the deadly sin of digitals, no? in fact, NO... you are hearing composite wave shapeS (plural) because = there are a lot of complex spatial and phasial relationships going on inside and =   outside of the swell box that you hear - and the LACK of those complex relationships of space and phase is the "deadly sin" of digitals.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: Onward, Christian Soldiers From: "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:49:42 -0400   And then, for the discouraged or cynical, there is this parody:   Like a fleeing army moves the Church of God; Brother treads on brother, grinds him in the sod. We are not united, lots of bodies we; One lacks faith, another hope, and all lack charity.   Backward, Christian soldiers, waging futile wars; Breaking out in schisms that our God deplores.   Penned by Robert McAfee Brown, theologian who taught at Union Sem, NYC, = and who contributed to the periodical "Christianity & Crisis" under the nom de plume "St. Hereticus."   Stan Yoder Pittsburgh          
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:53:39 -0400   Qualify that with a SOME digitals and no one will argue with you.   There are a vast amount of things going on in some digitals that few know about....and some pipe builders/dealers/sales people and bird-dogs out there don't have a clue.   > in fact, NO... you are hearing composite wave shapeS (plural) because > there are a lot of complex spatial and phasial relationships going on > inside and outside of the swell box that you hear - and the LACK of > those complex relationships of space and phase is the "deadly sin" of > digitals. > > Rick in VA     --   noel jones, aago noeljones@frogmusic.com ----------------------------------- 1 877 249-5251 Athens, TN USA   www.frogmusic.com Rodgers Organ Users Group Frog Music Press - Organ and MIDI Music FMP Organ Music Search Service Rodgers Organ Design & Voicing Services    
(back) Subject: Swell Shutters From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:14:24 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)   Hi List,=0D =0D What I am about to say may have been said already to some degree, howev= er, here goes.=0D =0D Recognizing the great high quality whiffle-tree engines, and in no way = to cast a bad light on them: from a speed perspective, the individual swellettes (newspeak for individual swell engine) have an advantage. Eac= h is poised and ready for action individually. Without the collective mass= , inertia, and drag of a whole connected system, the individual shades can flip open at any time, even the same time, thus making them quick. Howev= er, whether the shading gradient is smoother between the two styles of engine= s, is debatable. I'm visiting a nice Moller tomorrow, I'll give it a listen= =2E=0D =0D I'm pretty sure most Kimball organs had individual shade motors. If an= y of you have the Robert Elmore "Boardwalk Pipes" CD/LP, put it on #9, the Marche Champ=EAtre. In what I figure to be the third measure (4/4) of th= e main theme of the piece (it is played 3 or 4 times), one can hear two fas= t swells, probably the result of individual motors.=0D =0D Best,=0D =0D - Nate
(back) Subject: RE: shutter mechanisms again From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:45:17 -0400   Ah! The one Wicks I service has an exposed and highly visible swell box. = In fact, it's the most unusual organ I've seen (in Toronto). There would not = be enough room in the swell box for a pneumatic multi stage motor either. Therefore it was wisely decided to employ the individual pneumatic motor system. The organ was built in 1964, btw. A trace rod in any configuration would be unsightly, and I cannot imagine where they would fit an expression motor. You'd have to see this organ to believe it. There were thoughts of having the swell work with an expression motor and trace rod but I think that's been ruled-out, unless I install a Peterson unit inside the box with trace rod. That might work. AjMead -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of RMaryman@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 3:07 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again     In a message dated 9/13/2004 2:26:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mead@eagle.ca writes: Any Wicks organs I've seen have the individual units for their expression shutters. AjMead I service several Wicks organs, and all of the ones that I service have multi-stage motors with traces that move all the shades in unison. the motors are built similarly to the ones OSI builds (exposed bags-between-boards style), with a primary box on the bottom.   Rick in VA  
(back) Subject: RE: Annual Dutch Dash - apologies From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:28:59 -0400   At 01:54 PM 2004-09-11 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:20 AM 2004-09-10 -0700, you wrote: >>I may be as Dutch as can be in terms of blood lines, but I was bred and >>born in Canada. And I think of myself as 100% Canadian. >>No offense taken at your confusion. >> >>Now if we could only bring one of those fine Dutch organs you heard and >>bring it to the Toronto area, I would be so much happier. >> >>Arie V. > >It's not an old instrument, but darn close - across the lake from you - a =   >Reil instrument at Redeemer College in Ancaster, ON. A good size 2 = manual, >self-contained and movable, in an auditorium setting (yes, acoustics not >quite as fine as it deserves). Reil is one of the finest classic builders =   >today, perhaps less known internationally. My grad classmate at the >University of Iowa, Christiaan Teeuwsen, is (was? haven't kept up with >him) on the faculty there. Got to visit him in the early 90's and played >the instrument. > >John Seboldt >Milwaukee, WI >www.seboldt.net   John,   I have seen, heard and played that organ. One of the most difficult = organs to play that I have ever come across, and in a rather poor acoustic. I don't think evenso it is a great instrument. While the sound is not bad, mechanically it is not very good. I think they must have copied the = action from a mediocre 17th or 18th century organ. Nothing as good as what the Quebec tracker builders build these days. Chris Teeuwsen is still there = as far as I know.   One of the Reil brothers passed away, so I assume that different people = are now running the firm.   This particular organ at Redeemer does not have the greatest reputation in =   these parts.   Arie V.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: RE: Annual Dutch Dash - apologies From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:17:30 -0400   Arie wrote: This particular organ at Redeemer does not have the greatest reputation in these parts.   Arie V.   I added: I'll vouch for that. I remember when it was installed. Everyone in the = know was aghast with the very low price reportedly paid for it. AjMead      
(back) Subject: Re: Swell Shutters From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:41:15 -0400   the reason i'm asking about the differences between the two types is that = my 1951 moller has 3 divisions under expression. a few days ago i went = into the chambers & discovered that about 1/3 of the shutters are not = operating -- stuck either open or closed. i found an out of date estimate = for releathering the individual motors -- $250 each, and there are 60 = shutters, so the cost would be $15,000 (even more now). so now i'm = wondering if we should:   1. have all 60 releathered, 2. releather only the inoperable ones and do the others as they fail, or 3. change the mechanism so that all the shutters open simultaneously, = like a 13- or 16-stage unit.   bear in mind that: 1. i'm very VERY new to this position, 2. the church is very VERY old, 3. the church is very VERY small (250, down from 2,500 a few decades = ago), but does have an endowment fund. money is not readily available.   any other options i haven't thought of? what are everyone's thoughts?   thanks mucho.   scot  
(back) Subject: (no subject) From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:05:23 EDT   To those on the list in the Boston (Mass.) area:   After serving nearly one year as Organist and Choirmaster at the Church of =   St. John the Evangelist, Bowdoin Street, Beacon Hill, Boston, I will be installed formally at Solemn High Mass, 10:30 AM, Sunday, September 19th, = 2004. The Schola will be commissioned as well. If you care to join us for Solemn = High Mass, here's what you'll hear:   Organ, Choral and Liturgical music includes:   Prelude: "Pentecost" from "Improvisations on Gregorian Themes"--E. Titcomb Hymns: Old 113th, Engelberg, Hyfrydol (each with some original harmonizations) Psalmody and Gradual: Ps. 150; Plainchant, mode VII Ordinary of the Mass: William Mathias; Credo Mode V (see 1940) Anthem at the Offertory: "Lift Up Your Heads, O Ye Gates" --William = G.(Bill) Harris Communion Motet: "O Lord, Increase My Faith" --attr. Orlando Gibbons (Loosemore) Postlude: "Fanfare"-- William Mathias.   Wine and cheese to follow at happy--I mean, "coffee" hour.   Pax,   Bill H. SJE, Boston.        
(back) Subject: Onward, Christians, to the Zoo From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:20 -0500   There is a delightful Andrew Carter piece called "Badgers and Hedgehogs," which is part of his longer work for children's choir called "Bless the Lord." That, in turn is part of a still longer work for adults titled Benedicite. OUP, 1991.   I think Badgers and Hedgehogs would be delightful for a "blessing of the animals" service.   And, as for Onward Christian Soldiers, I've never quite understood the objections to it. The imagery is quite biblical.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: Zoo Question From: "Dersch Bruce" <bedersch2001@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:49:39 -0700 (PDT)   The Duet of Two Cats is by Rossini and is from "Sins of My Old Age,"-- It = was recorded by Schwartzkopb and someone else. There is also Copland's = "Cat and Mouse", a piano solo. I also remember something about a hymn in the Episcopal Hymnal, 1940, with = a verse about "Dogs with smiling Faces" and another verse with "herbs to = sooth our feverish brows>" Bud....can you help on this one? I can't find = it in the hymnal.   I return to lurking. Bruce   PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> wrote: PipeChat Digest #4765 - Monday, September 13, 2004   Re: "Zoo" Question    
(back) Subject: Re: (no subject) From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:17:21 -0400   Congratulations!     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu       on 9/13/04 7:05 PM, DERREINETOR@aol.com at DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote:   To those on the list in the Boston (Mass.) area:   After serving nearly one year as Organist and Choirmaster at the Church of St. John the Evangelist, Bowdoin Street, Beacon Hill, Boston, I will be installed formally at Solemn High Mass, 10:30 AM, Sunday, September 19th, 2004. The Schola will be commissioned as well. If you care to join us for Solemn High Mass, here's what you'll hear:   Organ, Choral and Liturgical music includes:   Prelude: "Pentecost" from "Improvisations on Gregorian Themes"--E. Titcomb Hymns: Old 113th, Engelberg, Hyfrydol (each with some original harmonizations) Psalmody and Gradual: Ps. 150; Plainchant, mode VII Ordinary of the Mass: William Mathias; Credo Mode V (see 1940) Anthem at the Offertory: "Lift Up Your Heads, O Ye Gates" --William = G.(Bill) Harris Communion Motet: "O Lord, Increase My Faith" --attr. Orlando Gibbons (Loosemore) Postlude: "Fanfare"-- William Mathias.   Wine and cheese to follow at happy--I mean, "coffee" hour.   Pax,   Bill H. SJE, Boston.              
(back) Subject: If you're in England, I could use your help... From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:41:43 -0400   Hi Pipechatters!   I am currently taking Music History I at school this semester (Westminster College in New Wilmington, PA). We're doing collaborative research with the professor. Next semester, he will be in England studying music in Anglican churches and the trends of contemporary or evangelical music. So this semester the class is doing a lot of footwork for him. We are trying to contact every church in England to see what kind of music programs they have -- there's a whole list of questions we need to ask.   Anyways, if you happen to be in the following dioceses, either as the minister of music, organist, choirmaster, etc, I might be able to use your help! We're trying to contact as many churches as possible in: Canterbury, Oxford, Ely, Exeter, Gloucester, and Chester. Please email me privately, even if to just give me the name of your church and your email so I don't have to try to hunt it down.   Thanks in advance- Shelley  
(back) Subject: Re: If you're in England, I could use your help... From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:57:42 -0500   Shelley, go to Anglicansonline.org..... they have a listing of every = diocese and it's parishes for the entire world ...the entire World..... search on the left side of the screen for links.   Sand   >    
(back) Subject: Re: If you're in England, I could use your help... From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:05:43 -0400   I've done that, and am using that quite a bit, but you'd be surprised how many email addresses are not included! I know it's a long shot, but I thought I might run across someone hear who I might not be able to contact otherwise. S   >>> glawn@jam.rr.com 09/13/04 9:57 PM >>> Shelley, go to Anglicansonline.org..... they have a listing of every diocese and it's parishes for the entire world ...the entire World..... search on the left side of the screen for links.   Sand   >     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>      
(back) Subject: Re: Swell Shutters From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:17:55 -0500   Nathan, please note the date of your message, shown below, and fix your = computer. You're one year off. RJL ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nathan Smith=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: Swell Shutters     Hi List,   What I am about to say may have been said already to some = degree, however, here goes.   Recognizing the great high quality whiffle-tree engines, and = in no way to cast a bad light on them: from a speed perspective, the = individual swellettes (newspeak for individual swell engine) have an = advantage. Each is poised and ready for action individually. Without = the collective mass, inertia, and drag of a whole connected system, the = individual shades can flip open at any time, even the same time, thus = making them quick. However, whether the shading gradient is smoother = between the two styles of engines, is debatable. I'm visiting a nice = Moller tomorrow, I'll give it a listen.   I'm pretty sure most Kimball organs had individual shade = motors. If any of you have the Robert Elmore "Boardwalk Pipes" CD/LP, = put it on #9, the Marche Champ=EAtre. In what I figure to be the third = measure (4/4) of the main theme of the piece (it is played 3 or 4 = times), one can hear two fast swells, probably the result of individual = motors.   Best,   - Nate=20 =20 =20 =20     -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----   This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm=20  
(back) Subject: Re: Swell Shutters From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:47:08 -0500   At 04:14 PM 9/13/2003, Nate wrote: <snip> > I'm pretty sure most Kimball organs had individual shade motors. If=20 > any of you have the Robert Elmore "Boardwalk Pipes" CD/LP, put it on #9,= =20 > the Marche Champ=EAtre. In what I figure to be the third measure (4/4) of= =20 > the main theme of the piece (it is played 3 or 4 times), one can hear two= =20 > fast swells, probably the result of individual motors.     "Most" Kimballs, probably. (but certainly not "all", by any means!=20 <g>) You're absolutely correct, though, in that the Atlantic City Ballroom= =20 Kimball does in fact have the 'individual' style swell motors. Most of=20 them, IIRC, actually operate pairs of the shutters; only the first few=20 truly operate a single shutter blade. (remember that in this particular=20 organ, there is a *LOT* of sound being controlled by two very LARGE tonal=20 openings full of shutters...!!)   --Tim            
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:38:57 +0300   "Onward Christian Soldiers"   This post is getting a bit like Chinese Whispers. I did not write the original post re the hymn as suggested by Andy Lawrence- I was following = up a thread. Unfortunately I have now wiped the original, so I can't remember where it originated from. Being a great opponent of Political Correctness, though doing my best to be courteous and maintain standards, it wouldn't have worried me in the slightest. I was extremely angry once with a right wing evangelical church who refused to let the organisers of a Memorial service have "Jerusalem" included in the order of service. It was at the request of the deceased, and their favourite hymn. Imposing your views on others on occasions such as these strikes me as being the antithesis of Christianity. John Foss   "> Re: On> on 9/13/04 8:04 AM, John Foss at harkat@kat.forthnet.gr DID = NOT WRITE: > > > At my church we have not sung "Onward, Christian > >> Soldiers" very often since the Vietnam Conflict...Ladies and = Gentlemen of > > the list: > >> Upon what occasions could this hymn be sung? And do you think it is = O. K. > > to start singing it again? ward Christian soldiers"