PipeChat Digest #4767 - Tuesday, September 14, 2004
 
Re: If you're in England, I could use your help...
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Onward Christian Soldiers
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Re: Zoo Question
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Swell Shutters
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Onward Christian Soldiers
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Zoo Question
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
RE: Zoo Question
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
Re: Zoo Question
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Onward Christian Soldiers
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
DAVID WOOLSEY please contact me (ignore otherwise)
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
adding stopknobs
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Fearsome beasts and children
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
ELCA dumb questions
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: adding stopknobs
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: adding stopknobs
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: adding stopknobs
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: ELCA questions
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: ELCA questions
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Onward Christian Soldiers
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: adding stopknobs
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
FW: homeless people around/ in churches
  by "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com>
RE: homeless people around/ in churches
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Eternal Flame
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tlevans95@charter.net>
Re: ELCA dumb questions
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: ELCA questions
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: If you're in England, I could use your help... From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:04:28 -0400   Shelley,   Try the Royal School of Church Music;   http://www.rscm.com   I would think that they keep a database of all their members.   Good luck,   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:06:55 -0700 (PDT)     --- John Foss <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> wrote:   > "Onward Christian Soldiers" > > This post is getting a bit like Chinese Whispers. I > did not write the > original post re the hymn as suggested by Andy > Lawrence- I was following up > a thread.   [snip]   > John Foss >   Pardon me, fellow list members... I wrote the original question...     > At my church we have not sung "Onward, Christian > Soldiers" very often since the Vietnam > Conflict...Ladies and Gentlemen > of the list: Upon what occasions could this hymn be sung? > And do you think it is O. K. > to start singing it again?   And I would welcome comments from other list members on the question I have raised...   Best wishes to all,     Morton Belcher fellow list member...     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Zoo Question From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:43:16 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Not being picky or anything, but I think I can add a bit of interest to the Rossini "Cat Duet" recording.   It was recorded at the Gerald Moore commemoration concert, with Gerald Moore doing the honours at the keyboard. If my memory serves me right, the other soprano was Victoria de los Angelis.   The "Sind of my old age" marked a return to composition for Rossini after a lay off off many years, and I adore them! He set out to make music....good music...whilst at the same time, breaking every musical rule in the book!!   Wonderful stuff....and that "Cat's Duet" is certainly one of the funniest things ever put on vinyl.   Now the next question....was it ever released on CD and is it available?   If not, why not?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Dersch Bruce <bedersch2001@yahoo.com> wrote:   > The Duet of Two Cats is by Rossini and is from "Sins > of My Old Age,"-- It was recorded by Schwartzkopb > and someone else. There is also Copland's "Cat and > Mouse", a piano solo. >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: Swell Shutters From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:48:46 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)   =0D Good morning,=0D =0D I received your response with interest this morning. In particular, this line:=0D =0D >>stuck either open or closed<<=0D =0D I am assuming (again) that most Moller individual motors are inflate t= o close the box, and are held open by some sort of spring otherwise. If so= me of your motors are stuck in various positions, you might want to investig= ate further to see where the failures are.=0D =0D Just off hand, there could be a number of problems:=0D =0D Electrical - Electricity isn't getting to the motors, perhaps bad conta= cts on the shoe, or solder joints. Jumping from a dead motor's magnet to it'= s neighbor (with the shoe closed) with a jumper wire will tell you this. O= n the other hand, a contact could be stuck to the feed somehow on the shoe, holding the motor closed all of the time. So, jump any motor's magnet=20 (with the shoe open) that is stuck on to it's neighbor's magnet to see if= it is electrically on.=0D =0D Magnets - Checking for dirty magnet armatures is a good idea as well. = If you have a small poking device, you can gently poke the magnets one at a time to see what happens. If this brings any dead shades back to life, clean the armature. I prefer having the magnet on for the cleaning - mak= es it easier to put the armature back on against the wind!=0D =0D Springs - A shade that is stuck open or lazy to open might have a broke= n or missing spring, or even be physically rubbing on the frame.=0D =0D Pneumatic - I'm not sure how many primaries Mollers have, but perhaps t= he pouch leather is shot, or the valve could be obstructed from opening/clos= ing all the way. One way around the first, until there is money to re-build = it, is to put a push magnet on the valve that has a dead pouch. I would chec= k to see how many actual motors are leaky. I would push the primaries one = at a time and see what happens. If the shade works you know it's something else. If it doesn't work, wiggle the shade and you'll hear some pneumati= c sound effects confirming the motor is shot.=0D =0D Of course, your bad shades could be a combination of everything, but I would encourage some more investigation into why the shades are dead, and let us know! As I said, I'm going to visit a Moller today (1930's) with = the individual shades, I'll check them out to refresh my memory.=0D =0D Good luck!=0D =0D - Nate
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:28:24 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Am oft repeated story of mine, but a delightful one.   When a very high church found itself with a "Bishop's man" as incumbent, the churchmanship dropped a peg or two.   The organist was aksed not to use the first hymn as a processional, but play quietly whilst the choristers shuffled in for the newly introduced "Family Worship."   On the final day of his appointment, the organist gave out the words to "Onward Christian Soldiers" on specially printed sheets, for it was not in the regular hymnal.   So it was, that as the choir took up their words and sang, they were heard to proclaim, "Onward Christian Soldiers, going as to war. With the cross of Jesus, nailed behind the door!"   History does not recall whether the organist stayed around for the final voluntary or not!   So yes! Go forth and sing it, but make sure to alter the words!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yaho.com> wrote:   > > > > Pardon me, fellow list members... I wrote the > original question... > > > > At my church we have not sung "Onward, Christian > > Soldiers" very often since the Vietnam > > Conflict...Ladies and Gentlemen > > of the list: > Upon what occasions could this hymn be sung? > > And do you think it is O. K. > > to start singing it again? >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Zoo Question From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:28:37 -0400   At 07:43 AM 9/14/2004, Colin wrote: >Wonderful stuff....and that "Cat's Duet" is certainly >one of the funniest things ever put on vinyl. > >Now the next question....was it ever released on CD >and is it available? > >If not, why not?   I have not seen it on CD, and here in Canada I am unlikely to ever see it at all. However, I do have the LP that I bought in London many years ago! I had forgotten that it was on that LP.   Bob Conway        
(back) Subject: RE: Zoo Question From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:39:50 -0500   EMI has issued this on CD several times; the most recent being "A Tribute = to Gerald Moore" ASIN: B00008RGZH (whatever that means).   Michael - who had heard somewhere several years ago that the duet in question was, in fact, written by one R. L. Pearsall       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Colin Mitchell Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 6:43 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Zoo Question     Hello,   Not being picky or anything, but I think I can add a bit of interest to the Rossini "Cat Duet" recording.   It was recorded at the Gerald Moore commemoration concert, with Gerald Moore doing the honours at the keyboard. If my memory serves me right, the other soprano was Victoria de los Angelis.   The "Sind of my old age" marked a return to composition for Rossini after a lay off off many years, and I adore them! He set out to make music....good music...whilst at the same time, breaking every musical rule in the book!!   Wonderful stuff....and that "Cat's Duet" is certainly one of the funniest things ever put on vinyl.   Now the next question....was it ever released on CD and is it available?   If not, why not?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK      
(back) Subject: Re: Zoo Question From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:59:32 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: RE: Zoo Question     > EMI has issued this on CD several times; the most recent being "A = Tribute to > Gerald Moore" ASIN: B00008RGZH (whatever that means). > > Michael - who had heard somewhere several years ago that the duet in > question was, in fact, written by one R. L. Pearsall   Really? Would that be Robert Lucas de Pearsall (1795-1856), of "In dulci jubilo" fame? If so, we might be singing, "Felix in gremio", which would make a change from a dog in a manger.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:37:47 -0500   Thanks for clearing that up, John. I didn't mean to imply that the = original post was yours or anyone else's. I actually didn't know or care who wrote =   the original post. I just hit <reply>, but I did so to your post, so some =   may have thought the original post was yours. Sorry to have caused confusion! I didn't think at all about what people might assume.   Andy     On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:38:57 +0300, John Foss wrote > "Onward Christian Soldiers" > > This post is getting a bit like Chinese Whispers. I did not write the > original post re the hymn as suggested by Andy Lawrence- I was > following up a thread. Unfortunately I have now wiped the original, > so I can't remember where it originated from. Being a great > opponent of Political Correctness, though doing my best to be > courteous and maintain standards, it wouldn't have worried me in the > slightest. I was extremely angry once with a right wing evangelical > church who refused to let the organisers of a Memorial service have > "Jerusalem" included in the order of service. It was at the request > of the deceased, and their favourite hymn. Imposing your views on > others on occasions such as these strikes me as being the antithesis > of Christianity. John Foss > > "> Re: On> on 9/13/04 8:04 AM, John Foss at harkat@kat.forthnet.gr > DID NOT WRITE: > > > > > At my church we have not sung "Onward, Christian > > >> Soldiers" very often since the Vietnam Conflict...Ladies and = Gentlemen > of > > > the list: > > >> Upon what occasions could this hymn be sung? And do you think it is = O. > K. > > > to start singing it again? > ward Christian soldiers" >     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: DAVID WOOLSEY please contact me (ignore otherwise) From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:26:23 EDT   I am trying to contact David Woolsey of this list. Can you please email me when you see this. Thank you.   Sebastian M. Gluck  
(back) Subject: adding stopknobs From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:27:08 -0400   hello, all. got a question for discussion. here's the situation...   1951 moller, 32 ranks no 16' manual stops. however, the 8' rohrflote in the swell is available = at 16' & 8' in the pedal. is it a good idea to add a new stopknob for the = 16' extension in the swell division? or is there a better way of making = it available on the swell?   thanks.   scot  
(back) Subject: Fearsome beasts and children From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:29:28 -0400   On 9/13/04 9:35 AM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > Isn't this a little dangerous where there are children around? > Naah. They've been doing it for decades. And St. Luke's Hospital (of Anglican roots) is right across the street.   Alan    
(back) Subject: ELCA dumb questions From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:57:39 EDT   HI Rev.............   eternal flame thing----   to which side does it belong and what is the correct name for it?   thanks   dale in Florida praising God that She sent IVAN to the gulf coast, and praying like crazy it dissipates and causes very little harm and no loss = of life there.  
(back) Subject: Re: adding stopknobs From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:02:59 EDT   Hi Scot ........... While having the 16' Gedeckt available on the manual may be a good idea, there very likely is more to it than just adding a stop knob to the = console. (BTW, if that is the original console with the original combination = action, adding a stop knob my be far more trouble than it is worth, unless of = course the church is prepared to spend the money to rebuild the console with new solid-state equipment.) There are chest issues to consider, if this organ is on Pitman chests, it = is very possible that only 44 notes of the Gedeckt are on unit actions (That = is the number of notes needed for the pedal borrows) which would make the = idea impossible unless there is some way to put the pipes starting at note 45 = on unit actions too. There are also relay issues involved. Of course with a large enough check book, most anything can be done. Bill Rocky Mountain Organ Co., Inc. William S (Bill) Hesterman, President    
(back) Subject: Re: adding stopknobs From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:10:28 -0400   hi bill. the console had a solid-state memory system installed a few = years ago. however, i know nothing about the chests. i try to stay out = of the chambers...   scot  
(back) Subject: Re: adding stopknobs From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:21:43 EDT   Scot ............ Probably best if you take this question up with your maintenance firm. = They should have a complete understanding of the issues involved. Bill Rocky Mountain Organ Co., Inc. William S (Bill) Hesterman, President    
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA questions From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:39:08 -0400   On 9/14/04 1:57 PM, "Keys4bach@aol.com" <Keys4bach@aol.com> wrote:   > eternal flame thing---- >=20 > to which side does it belong and what is the correct name for it? >=20 No sweat. =20   Almost always called =B3sanctuary lamp.=B2 I HAVE heard it (40 years ago) called =B3eternal light,=B2 but not in recent decades. Almost always red in color. Usually =B3eight-day candles=B2 for light source. Location: Anywhere up front: Center, left, and right, are all quite common. Suspended from above is probably most common, but many of them are =B3standing=B2 on a little shelfy thingy somewhere. Symbolism: God is present.   HowEVER! Among more =B3advanced=B2 parishes, the lamp is WHITE in color, and has a specifically different meaning: The sacrament is reserved here. Tha= t is, =B3leftover=B2 hosts from the last celebration are in an appropriate container quite near this white light.   At my church, we have a red sanctuary lamp in the chapel (no reserved sacrament there), and a white one just above the aumbry, near the altar, in the sanctuary, where the sacrament is reserved.   All the above applies equally to LCMS and ELCA.   Further questions invited!   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA questions From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:22:18 EDT   In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:39:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:   > HAVE heard it (40 years ago) called =E2=80=9Ceternal=20   well i am 48 so i guess.....   thanks. they installed on right but i have never seen it there. red with=20 oil. placed 10 feet up the wall on the wall as a sconce, not hanging as i am= =20 used to. all altar guild members are female, and under 5'6"......who is going to fill= =20 the thing when it runs out. we are NOT of the sort to expect THAT miracle=20 that Y#w*h did for HIS chosen.   thanks for the help!   dale in cloudy, rainy, missing 25% of the orange crop Florida....good news=20 for California oranges. :-)  
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:25:27 -0400   On 9/14/04 8:28 AM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > "Onward Christian Soldiers, going as to war. With the cross of Jesus, = nailed > behind the door!"   I first heard this in Church Music class about 51 or 52 years ago, almost exactly as you tell it, but with the added detail that the poet of the day was Mr. Thomas Ken. True?   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: adding stopknobs From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:27:39 -0400   I've just completed two jobs this summer where I did precisely what scot = is asking for. Both organs were Casavants and both had 16' gedeckts in the swell as part = of a 16-8 gedeckt partial unit stop that stranded the 16' to the pedal and = made only the 8' portion available on the swell. (What a waste!) In job 1. pipes 1-44 were of unit action and on an offset chest, pipes 45 = to 73 were on the main swell chest and operated by the swell distributor (primary). I left all pipes in place and isolated pipes 45-73 from the swell primary and fitted the pouchboard actions with exhaust magnets, the exhausts of which were "tubed-off" with rubber 1/4" ID tube purchased at a very good price from a rather surprising source, btw. I disconnected wires 1-44 from the console and fed all wires from the unit actions into a Peterson diode relay. What did I do for an extra drawknob? The organist was willing to part with his "swell sub coupler" and we = simply re-arranged the order of the drawknobs on the console jamb and rearranged the wiring to reflect changes made to the drawknob order. There was more = to it but not much else.   Job 2. I decided it best to place the same main chest pipes 45 to 73 on an offset chest built for the pipes and the same "things" were done again as = in job 1. The organist here also agreed to part with the swell sub coupler to "free-up" a drawknob that was otherwise unavailable. Both organs are likely subjects for conversion to all electric console control in the near future so the sub-couplers will have a chance to reappear. The Peterson relays were a delight to work with and well worth = the money spent on them.     That's what I did.   AjMead   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of BlueeyedBear@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:27 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: adding stopknobs     hello, all. got a question for discussion. here's the situation...   1951 moller, 32 ranks no 16' manual stops. however, the 8' rohrflote in the swell is available = at 16' & 8' in the pedal. is it a good idea to add a new stopknob for the = 16' extension in the swell division? or is there a better way of making it available on the swell?   thanks.   scot   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:45:17 -0500         >From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> >To: ppipechat@pipechat.org >CC: vhatch@hotmail.com >Subject: homeless people around/ in churches Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 >22:05:14 -0500 > >Do any of you have any insight into legal aspects of how the organist = going >and coming from his/her church might be affected by the churches >unwillingmess to prosecute people who make their homes around bushes or >backdoor entrances or whatever OR WHO SIMPLY BREAK into the church to get =   >to a warm place or make their temporary home? It seems to me that one = could >lose one's life savings in a lawsuite from the family of such a homeless >person if you happened to be practicing and maybe they got sick or = pregnant >or whatever and came for your help and you couln't render sufficient help =   >and God forbid they died. It seems to me that if a PRACTICE of tolerence =   >of their living on the premises had been ESTABLISHED then maybe they get >"squatters' rights" or something. I apologize if this has typos in it--I =   >don't have my glasses. > >_________________________________________________________________ >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to =   >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=3DRetirement >   _________________________________________________________________ Don=92t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/    
(back) Subject: RE: homeless people around/ in churches From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:28 -0500   Has this happened to you? Or are you just having problems with people around?   The church ought to be reaching out to those people in as many ways as they can, at the very least...   Daniel=20 Springfield, Missouri       >From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> >To: ppipechat@pipechat.org >CC: vhatch@hotmail.com >Subject: homeless people around/ in churches Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004=20 >22:05:14 -0500 > >Do any of you have any insight into legal aspects of how the organist going=20 >and coming from his/her church might be affected by the churches=20 >unwillingmess to prosecute people who make their homes around bushes or   >backdoor entrances or whatever OR WHO SIMPLY BREAK into the church to get=20 >to a warm place or make their temporary home? It seems to me that one could=20 >lose one's life savings in a lawsuite from the family of such a homeless=20 >person if you happened to be practicing and maybe they got sick or pregnant=20 >or whatever and came for your help and you couln't render sufficient help=20 >and God forbid they died. It seems to me that if a PRACTICE of tolerence=20 >of their living on the premises had been ESTABLISHED then maybe they get=20 >"squatters' rights" or something. I apologize if this has typos in it--I=20 >don't have my glasses. >  
(back) Subject: Eternal Flame From: "Travis L. Evans" <tlevans95@charter.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:06:22 -0500   Ours hangs on the left side, and is on this nifty mechanism. You can = reach up and grab the bottom of it and pull it down then when you = replace the candle just push it up, I'm guessing its on some sort of = pulley system. =20   You can kind of see it in the picture on the website for the church.   Its just above the American Flag.   http://www.hcross.com/Sanctuary.htm   Trav
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:19:15 -0700   The Sanctuary Lamp is properly a CLEAR glass globe and hangs in the CENTER at the entrance to the chancel; or it can be placed in a wall bracket on the Gospel side (left side as you face the altar).   Cheers,   Bud   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > HI Rev............. > > eternal flame thing---- > > to which side does it belong and what is the correct name for it? > > thanks > > dale in Florida praising God that She sent IVAN to the gulf coast, and > praying like crazy it dissipates and causes very little harm and no loss =   > of life there.      
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA questions From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:21:51 -0700   Hanging Sanctuary Lamps typically have spring-loaded pulleys, and the Lamp has a hook at the base ... you pull it down to change the candle / refill the oil by means of an old-fashioned window-pole, still used in old churches to open the stained-glass windows.   Cheers,   Bud   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:39:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, > acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes: > >> HAVE heard it (40 years ago) called =E2=80=9Ceternal > > > > well i am 48 so i guess..... > > thanks. they installed on right but i have never seen it there. red > with oil. placed 10 feet up the wall on the wall as a sconce, not > hanging as i am used to. > all altar guild members are female, and under 5'6"......who is going to > fill the thing when it runs out. we are NOT of the sort to expect THAT > miracle that Y#w*h did for HIS chosen. > > thanks for the help! > > dale in cloudy, rainy, missing 25% of the orange crop Florida....good > news for California oranges. :-)