PipeChat Digest #4768 - Tuesday, September 14, 2004 Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches by "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches by "Tim Bovard" <email@example.com> Re: ELCA dumb questions by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: adding stopknobs by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: homeless people around/ in churches by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: ELCA dumb questions by "Liquescent" <email@example.com> Re: Onward Christian Soldiers by <Steskinner@aol.com> Re: shutter mechanisms again by <RMaryman@aol.com> Re: Swell Shutters by <RMaryman@aol.com> Re: Zoo Question by "Roy Kersey" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: adding stopknobs - reply by <RMaryman@aol.com> Re: ELCA dumb questions by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Keith Thompson at Grace Cathedral, San Francisco by "Blaine Ricketts" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: homeless people around/ in churches by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: ELCA dumb questions by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: ELCA dumb questions by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: homeless people around/ in churches by <OMusic@aol.com> Ivan by "Glenda" <email@example.com> yea verily, the truth about colours by "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Ivan by <OrganMD@aol.com> 16' Stops on the swell.. by "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: "Liquescent" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:33:50 -0700 This is NOT A GOOD IDEA, no matter HOW charitable it may sound. My home parish, St. Paul's Episcopal Church, Winter Haven FL was burned to the ground by a vagrant who discarded a lit cigarette in the baptistry, the DAY the three-manual Aeolian-Skinner organ was (finally) completed in memory of Fr. Cyril Sturrup, the long-time rector. They lost countless works of art, antique stained glass, 16th century Spanish silver, irreplaceable vestments, etc. etc. etc. They had always left the church unlocked. Locally here in San Diego, First Presbyterian Church's four-manual Casavant organ suffered extensive damage when a disgruntled street person set a fire in the kitchen directly under the choir loft. The console was destroyed; the organ suffered major water damage, and had to be completely removed and rebuilt. Several local churches here provide blankets, sleeping pads, food, and porta-potties for the homeless OUTSIDE the churches in the parking lot. We can do that ... San Diego's average temperature year-round is something like 65-70 degrees. But doing anything ELSE is INVITING the CHURCH'S insurance company NOT to pay if something DOES happen. Find a local program that distributes housing vouchers; allowing the homeless to camp out in the church is inviting disaster. Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:32:03 EDT At St. John's, our outreach to the homeless and poor is not just donations = of food, clothing and money--we bring those in need to US. It's been this way = for over 100 years. Six days per week there is at least one hot meal = served in the undercroft serving hundreds of persons per week. Folks are welcome to = "drop in" most days, and we are constantly inviting people in to use the = restrooms, etc. And, yes, we allow some folks to sleep in our doorways and gardens, hassle-free. (For more information on our outreach ministry, see www.stjohnsbowdoinst.org and click on "Neighborhood Action".). So, routinely, each day I may have to step over two people in sleeping = bags to get in the office door in the morning. Even on Sundays, there may be = several people sleeping in front of the main entrance to the church until an hour before Mass! Not only do we know the folks who sleep in our doorways, but = they are excellent stewards--they have been known to run off folks who would = like to start trouble and once, prevented a break-in! They are, in fact, more a = part of our parish life than some parishioners (and yes, the homeless are = invited to High Mass and some come regularly). I can't help but think that Jesus = would approve. (Interestingly, this parish is located about 500 feet from the = Massachsetts State House. What irony!). Does this mean there haven't been problems? No, of course not. Minor irritations? Yes. Occasionally a "surprise" in the garden? Naturally. Yet, = we continue to be committed to the challenge "whatsoever you do to the least of us, = you do to Me". To keep this "on-topic", there is a group of homeless folks who like to = sit on the steps and listen while I practice in the good weather when the = windows in the church are open and the organ can be heard on the street. They are = a most appreciative audience. I know them all by name, and often give them cigarettes. One of them knows a little about church music, even. Get to know these people who hang around your church. They are probably troubled or addicted, but harmless. Who knows? Some of them might just = like Bach. Pax, Bill H. SJE Boston.
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: "Tim Bovard" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:53:05 -0500 At 02:45 PM 9/14/2004, you wrote: Do any of you have any insight into legal aspects of how the organist = going and coming from his/her church might be affected by the churches unwillingmess to prosecute people who make their homes around bushes or backdoor entrances or whatever OR WHO SIMPLY BREAK into the church <snip> How would the _organist_ in this situation be affected? I rather think he/she might "legally" find themselves looking for a new job, for starters...! ;-) ;-) --Tim
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:55:07 EDT Bud, My understanding is that sanctuary lamp(s) are white when the Blessed Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, and red when it is reserved = elsewhere. I know that when we moved the tabernacle (many years ago, before my time) from = the high altar to the Blessed Sacrament chapel on the Gospel side, the lamps = were changed from white to red glass (there are, of course, 7 of them). A white = lamp hangs before the tabernacle in it's chapel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I = think Alan and I may be correct. Pax, Bill H. SJE Boston.
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:56:03 EDT Bud, We have never had an incident like that in over 100 years. BH Boston
(back) Subject: Re: adding stopknobs From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:13:05 EDT What does the organbuilder in charge of the project say?
(back) Subject: Re: homeless people around/ in churches From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:21:52 -0400 On 9/14/04 6:32 PM, "DERREINETOR@aol.com" <DERREINETOR@aol.com> wrote: > (Interestingly, this parish is located about 500 feet from the Massachset= ts > State House. What irony!). >=20 Let me try to frame an idea: That it=B9s ironic that it is NOT ironic (or is that too obscure?). A prominent case in Manhattan is that of Fifth Ave. Presbyterian Church, wh= o welcomes the homeless to sleep in the snow on the front steps of the church= .. It=B9s a pretty fancy shopping area, and the local shoppes call the cops to have them run off. The congregation hires lawyers to protect their right t= o welcome them (and wins the cases). In my own very small parish, we=B9re not so heroic, but we do serve upwards o= f 300 meals a week, and have a (professionally staffed) shelter in the basement with a capacity unfortunately limited to about seven. Alan www.stlukesnyc.org
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions From: "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:46:37 -0700 Ritual Notes DOES say that the Sanctuary Lamp before the Blessed Sacrament should be white to distinguish it from lamps before shrines, = etc. I think it DOES say that when the seven lamps are present, the rest can be red, as long as the center one is white. I'm not aware of the custom of having the seven lamps burning if the Sacrament ISN'T present; there's at least one RC church in Cincinnati that has the seven lamps (St. Monica's pro-cathedral in Clifton), but the Sacrament is still on the high altar. I can recall several old anglo-catholic churches (St. Luke's, Evanston among them) where the Sacrament was brought to the high altar before the first Mass on Sunday for convenience in giving Holy Communion, and then returned (with much ceremony) to the Lady Chapel at the end of the last Mass. Dr. Matthews' improvisations during that interval were marvelous! David Scribner probably remembers those ... that was his home parish. I sorta understand the thinking of present-day liturgists, but I still think the Blessed Sacrament should be enthroned on the main altar of the church. Cheers, Bud DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote: > Bud, > > My understanding is that sanctuary lamp(s) are white when the Blessed > Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, and red when it is reserved > elsewhere. I know that when we moved the tabernacle (many years ago, > before my time) from the high altar to the Blessed Sacrament chapel on > the Gospel side, the lamps were changed from white to red glass (there > are, of course, 7 of them). A white lamp hangs before the tabernacle in > it's chapel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Alan and I may be = correct. > > Pax, > Bill H. > SJE Boston.
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:50:37 EDT In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:39:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, email@example.com writes: I was extremely angry once with a right wing evangelical church who = refused to let the organisers of a Memorial service have "Jerusalem" included in = the order of service. It was at the request of the deceased, and their = favourite hymn. Imposing your views on others on occasions such as these strikes me = as being the antithesis of Christianity. John Foss Really? Are we to conclude that the Thesis of Christianity is "don't = impose our beliefs during worship services?" We need to base what is or is not appropriate on such occasions as worship serivces (be they funerals, = weddings, or Sundays) on holy writ, rather than what we think is right. That said, the = scriptures do give wide latitude in style and content of worship actions, = not for our pleasure, but for God's. If any Christian church would not allow "Jerusalem (And did those feet in ancient times)" at a service, I imagine the reason would be the complete = absence of any Christian content in the text. I once played a funeral where the deceased's favorite song was sung "I Did It My Way." Appropriate for a = remembrance, maybe. In a Christian service, not even! Right wing churches, fundamentalists, liberals, main-line, Roman, pentecostals, evangelicals or any other stripe of the Christian church has = the perfect right to excercise control over what is sung and played at worship = services. Grateful for a mild summer, so that we could use the reeds! Steven Skinner Minister of Music First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA
(back) Subject: Re: shutter mechanisms again From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:01:18 EDT In a message dated 9/13/2004 4:54:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: Qualify that with a SOME digitals and no one will argue with you. There are a vast amount of things going on in some digitals that few know about....and some pipe builders/dealers/sales people and bird-dogs out there don't have a clue. at the risk of appearing 'clueless', I will stand by my original = statement. As long as digital organs use speakers, the 'flatness' will remain, until = there are speakers that radiate sound in 360 degrees, and there are as many speakers as speaking notes/voices. Digitally combining stops (i.e. 8' = Principal 7 say 4' Octave and Mixture III) will not produce the same set of = relationships (space and phase) that give pipe organs their liveliness, and produce a = more sterile sound from a digital organ. Rick in VA
(back) Subject: Re: Swell Shutters From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:09:33 EDT In a message dated 9/13/2004 6:41:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BlueeyedBear@aol.com writes: bear in mind that: 1. i'm very VERY new to this position, 2. the church is very VERY old, 3. the church is very VERY small (250, down from 2,500 a few decades = ago), but does have an endowment fund. money is not readily available. any other options i haven't thought of? what are everyone's thoughts? Assuming that the swell motor assemblies are the original MOller units, = $250 per motor is a bit pricey in my opinion. the FIRST thing you should do is = talk to your maintenance provider to find out WHY the shades are stuck open (or = closed as the case may be). It is possible that fixing the problems are = not going to cost so much money. For the amount of moeny you cited, a = reputable service firm could replace the pneumatic motors with new 16-stage Peterson = shade controllers (and have a pretty fair amount of cash left for other organ renovation). Rick in VA
(back) Subject: Re: Zoo Question From: "Roy Kersey" <email@example.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 0:16:56 +0000 Hi Listers, Bruce Dersch's post reminded me of the Samuel Barber song "A Monk and = His Cat" from the "Hermit Songs", which goes: Pangur, white Pangur, O how happy we are, Alone together, scholar and cat. Each has his own work to do daily, For you it is hunting, for me, study. You rejoice when your claws entrap a mouse, I rejoice when my mind fathoms a problem . . . Originally for soprano and piano, I think, but I would guess it could be = transcribed for organ and voice. It's always been a favorite of mine. = There are beautiful old recordings by both Eleanor Steber and Leontyne = Price, both paired with "Knoxville, Summer of 1915" but that's another = story . . . This last to me an extremely beautiful and spiritual work, = but, alas, not liturgical . . . or organic . . . Best Regards, Roy Kersey Organ Enthusiast
(back) Subject: Re: adding stopknobs - reply From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:23:50 EDT In a message dated 9/14/2004 1:28:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BlueeyedBear@aol.com writes: 1951 moller, 32 ranks no 16' manual stops. however, the 8' rohrflote in the swell is available = at 16' & 8' in the pedal. is it a good idea to add a new stopknob for the = 16' extension in the swell division? or is there a better way of making it available on the swell? the answer to the question depends on HOW the wiring is done for the Rohrflute. Often this stop will be on a unit chest that plays from several = places...off the swell primary relay for the manual (there will be a gang = switch in proximity to the chest...follow the cable and you'll find it.) and the = pedal stops may be direct-wired to the console thru either a roller-board set of = contacts OR thru under-key contacts with a pneumatic gang switch in the rear of the = console. It is probably NOT a simple matter to just add the drawknob, = because if there was no preparation in the switchstack or console there will be a considerable amount of wiring involved, plus the addition of diodes and a = gang switch. Rick in VA
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:22:51 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liquescent" <email@example.com> To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions > Ritual Notes DOES say that the Sanctuary Lamp before the Blessed > Sacrament should be white to distinguish it from lamps before shrines, etc. Now don't set me off, Bud. This IMHO is one of the main reasons for being an Anglican. Perhaps Papal Infallibility, the Copresence of the BVM in = the Blessed Sacrament (well they didn't actually pass that at Vatican I, = though it was considered), etc. , might not be too bad, but having red Presence lights is WAY beyond the pale. The lamp before the Blessed Sacrament = should always be white. Let Romans and Lutherans have red ones if they wish, but they are WRONG. The Anglican way of doing things is White for the Blessed Sacrament, Red for altars without reservation, and Blue for statues of the BVM. People have so lost sight of this important turht that it is = nowadays almost impossible to obtain white sanctuary lamps from ecclesiastical = supply houses. John Speller
(back) Subject: Keith Thompson at Grace Cathedral, San Francisco From: "Blaine Ricketts" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:28:28 -0700 I'm forwarding this message from Keith. br Dear Friends: This is just a reminder to those of you living in the San Francisco Bay Area that on Sunday, September 26 at 3 p.m. I will be playing a concert at Grace Cathedral. I would love to have you come if you have the time and want an afternoon of some glorious music in a glorious space. I will be performing the following works: Fanfares (from Parsifal) of Richard Wagner Meditation (from Thais) of Jules Massenet (my own transcription) My Heart At Thy Sweet Voice (from Samson and Delilah) of Saint-Saens (again, my own transcription) and a most glorious transcription by Edwin H. Lemare of Richard Wagner's Wotan's Farewell and Magic Fire Music from Die Walkure. That's the first half of the program. The second half of the program consists of one piece of symphonic and monumental proportions -- Sonata on the 94th Psalm by Julius Reubke (also a German romantic composer). It is quite a substantial piece and deserves to stand alone in a program. It is musically a very rewarding piece both to play and to listen to. And the organ at Grace Cathedral is up to all of the music that I have chosen. It is in fine form these days now that it is back under the talented hands of Edward Millington Stout III to be its loving curator. I hope to see you there! Seating will be allowed in the Choir stalls where you can really hear the organ at its optimum -- where it is the clearest but you still get the ambience of the acoustical environment as well. Cheers to everyone! All my best, Keith
(back) Subject: Re: homeless people around/ in churches From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:29:26 EDT Alan, As I've said before, St. John's and St. Luke's have quite a bit in common. We haven't had the cop problem--YET. New condos across the street should raise the "vagrant" question pretty soon. We're ready for it. Our Sr. = Warden is the former Deputy Mayor of Boston. "What we do to the least....." Pax BH SJE Boston
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:31:27 EDT AMEN. BH SJE Boston
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:46:11 EDT Bud, I agree, it should be on the main altar. However, better to use the lovely = lamps and not send the "wrong" message than not to use them at all. At = SJE, at least, the tabernacle is visible in it's chapel from everywhere in the = nave, and is routinely reverenced by worshippers. BH
(back) Subject: Re: homeless people around/ in churches From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:06:59 EDT When I was a Parish Worker in a Lutheran Church people would wander in, wanting money. We had a clothes closet and a pantry with donated clothes = and food. Our policy was not to give cash, but clothes and food. Sometimes they accepted, but some went on to another church to try to get some cash. = Occasionally people would come in wanting a place to stay. We would take them to the nearest shelter. Those were the days when the church doors were left = unlocked. It was around the same time when my friend, a pianist in a church, went to = get in her car and someone with a pistol (gun) forced her to the passenger's side = and he then started driving her car. She started praying for him very = loudly. About a mile down the road the man stopped the car and told her to leave, = that he couldn't stand her praying. (I think I told this story once before, = but it demonstrates the power of prayer. ) Lee
(back) Subject: Ivan From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:24:30 -0500 Don't know if I'll have power or satellite this time tomorrow night, so wanted to ask for your prayers for those along the Gulf Coast. I've been through the eye of a few Cat 3s, but not a 4 or 5. May God's mercy be upon all. Glenda Sutton email@example.com
(back) Subject: yea verily, the truth about colours From: "Liquescent" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:33:02 -0700 ROFLMAO!!!! That reminds me of a one-hour lecture the late Canon Vivan Albertus Peterson once gave on the proper colour for the tassel on the Tabernacle key (as I recall, it should be cloth-of-gold, or green). Cheers, Bud, who needed a good laugh after the day's collection of utter garbage on Big Anglican. John L. Speller wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liquescent" <email@example.com> > To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 6:46 PM > Subject: Re: ELCA dumb questions > > > >>Ritual Notes DOES say that the Sanctuary Lamp before the Blessed >>Sacrament should be white to distinguish it from lamps before shrines, > > etc. > > Now don't set me off, Bud. This IMHO is one of the main reasons for = being > an Anglican. Perhaps Papal Infallibility, the Copresence of the BVM in = the > Blessed Sacrament (well they didn't actually pass that at Vatican I, = though > it was considered), etc. , might not be too bad, but having red Presence > lights is WAY beyond the pale. The lamp before the Blessed Sacrament = should > always be white. Let Romans and Lutherans have red ones if they wish, = but > they are WRONG. The Anglican way of doing things is White for the = Blessed > Sacrament, Red for altars without reservation, and Blue for statues of = the > BVM. People have so lost sight of this important turht that it is = nowadays > almost impossible to obtain white sanctuary lamps from ecclesiastical = supply > houses. > > John Speller > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > List-Digest: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:email@example.com> > >
(back) Subject: Re: Ivan From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:38:54 EDT Dearest Glenda ............... Your friends in Salt Lake will indeed be praying for you and all of those = in the path. May God's speed be with you and yours. Bill Rocky Mountain Organ Co., Inc. William S (Bill) Hesterman, President Representing Austin Organs, Inc.
(back) Subject: 16' Stops on the swell.. From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:44:15 -0700 (PDT) New organist here, just wanted to add my 2 cents on the 16' stops on the manuals. We have installed a older Reuter 5 rank unit organ over the summer in my house which has a few 16' stops on the manuals: on the Swell: a 16' Bourdon (which is an extention of the gedeckts) which works down to the bottom octave on the swell, and a 16' Contra Viola which works as an extention of the Salicional rank, but does not play on the bottom octave of the swell. on the gerat: 16' Diapason, playing on all octaves as well as a 16' Contra Oboe that plays on just the top 4 octaves (same as the Contra Viola on the swell). I'm not a expert organist by any means so will leave that to others, but I REALLY enjoy having the 16' stops. Adding a 16' Bourdon on the swell really adds depth to many compositions without making the sound muddy at all. (at least on the Reuter) I know many people strongly dislike adding the 16' especially for hymns, but for solo works the 16' stops make for a very rich sound when used appropriately. The biggest advantage of having the 16's on the manuals is that they really add power/depth to the organ while using the Crescendo pedal. John Rust http://www.reuter822.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail