PipeChat Digest #4769 - Wednesday, September 15, 2004
 
Re: homeless people around/ in churches
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Reuter for sale
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
Re: homeless people around/ in churches
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Jerusalem
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: Onward Christian Soldiers
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: homeless people around/ in churches
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Re: Jerusalem
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Homeless People
  by "kosmiriam47" <kosmiriam47@yahoo.com>
Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches
  by <Joshwwhite@aol.com>
Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches
  by <Joshwwhite@aol.com>
Re: Jerusalem
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: homeless people around/ in churches From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:54:52 -0700   The Parish Secretary at the Episcopal Cathedral in St. Louis was MURDERED by a homeless person.   St. Matthew's has a door-bell on the outside door to the office. It stays locked during the day.   Old St. Mary's left a side door open that was visible from the rectory dining room. The retired housekeeper sat in her easy chair in the window and watched TV from there. If she saw a drunk stagger in, she went through the sacristy, picked up her trusty broom, and cleared him out in a HURRY. She was 81 years old, about 5 feet tall, and afraid of NOTHING and NOBODY on the face of this EARTH. I can still remember turning around from the organ (fully a city block away and up in the second balcony, so I was no help) when I'd hear Rose yelling, "SHOO! SHOO!" and whacking some poor drunk over the head with a broom (chuckle).   One got past her and nearly burned Old St. Mary's down ... I came in to practice and found a drunk asleep on the winding stairway to the organ loft. I smelled something burning, and opened the closet under the stairs where we kept the boxes of votive candles. He had lit them ALL in the BOXES in an attempt to get warm. Fortunately there was a fire extinguisher at the foot of the stairs.   After that, the side door was kept locked, and people were asked to go through the rectory if they wanted to pray, make a visit to the Blessed Sacrament, etc.   I deplore the actions of the government that emptied the mental hospitals without providing a safety net ... in San Diego, approximately 70% of our homeless are mentally ill, many of them veterans. I used to work the annual "Stand Down" in Balboa Park, which attempted to get homeless vets' paperwork in order so they could get disability and needed medical services.   St. Vincent de Paul Village, Catholic Charities, Episcopal Community Services, etc. do the best they can, and they need our support, but my original statement stands. If the churches want to tackle the homeless problem, let them lobby local, state, and federal governments, and/or fund homeless shelters. Allowing the homeless to camp out in/around the church is NOT the way to deal with it.   To bring it on topic, more than one organist has been murdered by a homeless person. I stopped practicing at night a LONG time ago, and even in upper-class Newport Beach CA, the choir had keys to the church and let themselves in for choir practice, and we walked people to their cars afterwards ... a couple of the men always made sure everyone's car had started before they left; we had a security guard patrol the parking lot whenever we had evening services or events.   It's a shame, but that's the way the world is these days.   Cheers,   Bud   OMusic@aol.com wrote:   > When I was a Parish Worker in a Lutheran Church people would wander in, > wanting money. We had a clothes closet and a pantry with donated > clothes and food. Our policy was not to give cash, but clothes and > food. Sometimes they accepted, but some went on to another church to > try to get some cash. Occasionally people would come in wanting a place > to stay. We would take them to the nearest shelter. Those were the days =   > when the church doors were left unlocked. It was around the same time > when my friend, a pianist in a church, went to get in her car and > someone with a pistol (gun) forced her to the passenger's side and he > then started driving her car. She started praying for him very loudly. > About a mile down the road the man stopped the car and told her to > leave, that he couldn't stand her praying. (I think I told this story > once before, but it demonstrates the power of prayer. ) Lee      
(back) Subject: Reuter for sale From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:53:53 EDT   Hi All .............. We have acquired a 6 ranks unit Reuter that needs a new home. The ranks = are Diapason, Gedeckt, Salicional, Voix Celeste, Dulciana, and Oboe. The instrument is complete, pipes, chest, console, blower, shades and shade = motor etc. This organ can either be sold as is FOB Salt Lake City, or we can do any = level of upgrading that may be desired. The organ was playing in good = condition when it was removed and put into storage 7 years ago. This instrument = would be suitable for a residence, studio, or small to medium size chapel. (It = came from a 200 seat chapel) Please get back to me if you have any interest. Bill Rocky Mountain Organ Co., Inc. William S (Bill) Hesterman, President      
(back) Subject: Re: homeless people around/ in churches From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:42:49 EDT   The churches in the Westhampton, NY area (YES, that IS "The Hamptons") run = a homeless shelter. Volunteers drive to several designated pick-up spots, = and those waiting are taken in and given a hot meal, a shower, and clean = clothes. Their own clothes, washed, are returned to them in the morning.   This is a group effort by the Methodist, Catholic, Episcopal and = Presbyterian Churches and the Synagogue. It is in the lower level of the Presbyterian church, where there was room to store the bedrolls and install a washer = and dryer. The churches provide the funding and the volunteers, so no one = church has to bear all the expense.   Even in an affluent community such as this, there are still those who need =   help. And who better to help than the churches?       Victoria  
(back) Subject: Jerusalem From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:49:12 +0300   Steven Skinner Steskinner@aol.com wrote   "If any Christian church would not allow "Jerusalem (And did those feet in ancient times)" at a service, I imagine the reason would be the complete absence of any Christian content in the text."   An interesting theological point which might be taking us a little off topic. Is not the "Holy Lamb of God" Christian in its content? Perhaps it refers to Zeus, leading light in the God's of Olympus, who were just as = real to the people of their era as the God we claim to worship today? I don't think so. As a hymn, Jerusalem is admittedly somewhat nationalistic - it = was written at a time when the British Empire was both large and powerful. A funeral or memorial service is an occasion when the friend's and family of the deceased gather to acknowledge the belief that there is a power above and beyond us to whom we owe our presence here, and honour them in a way they believe suitable. Surely music is a gift of God, and if you are a member of a Christian Church, then there is an implied acknowledgment of divine inspiration and creation. Jerusalem is not anti Christian - it is merely assuming, with some justification, that God blessed Britain, as He might be considered to have blessed the rest of His Kingdom. I believe = that at services such as these (weddings, funerals and memorials) the wishes of the deceased should take preference over the prejudices of the minister of that particular church at that particular time.   The following comes from my Google search, on the "Truth in History Ministries" site. It looks sufficiently accurate:   "Charles Parry set Blake's Preface to Milton to music for a rally of the "Fight for the Right" movement in Queen's Hall. It became more generally known as "Jerusalem" when Parry conducted it in 1918 at a concert to mark the final stage in the Votes for Women Campaign, after which it was = adopted by the National Federation of Women's Institutes (and is still sung at meetings of WI Groups all over Britain). Edward Elgar added an orchestral score to Parry's rather somber tune in time for the Leeds Festival of = 1922, turning it into a popular national hymn which traditionally ends the last night of the annual Sir Henry Wood promenade concerts at the Royal Albert Hall. This work also made an appearance in the 1981 Academy Award winning movie Chariots of Fire."   And did those feet in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green? And was the Holy Lamb of God On England's pleasant pastures seen? And did the Countenance Divine Shine forth upon our clouded hills? And was Jerusalem builded here Among these dark satanic mills?   Bring me my bow of burning gold! Bring me my arrows of desire! Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold! Bring me my chariot of fire! I will not cease from mental fight, Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand, Till we have built Jerusalem In England's green and pleasant land.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>      
(back) Subject: Re: Onward Christian Soldiers From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:05:41 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I don't know about the primary sources, but a certain Mr Sellers obviously got hold of the idea, and used it for a dramatic exit as organist of the church to which I refer.   Coming to think of it, it happened around 40 years ago, which would date the event to around 1964.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote:   > > I first heard this in Church Music class about 51 or > 52 years ago, almost > exactly as you tell it, but with the added detail > that the poet of the day > was Mr. Thomas Ken. True? > > Alan > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:17:15 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I once sat in a public park as a boy of 14, and a homeless person with long hair and shabby clothing asked me what I was writing.   "I'm making a list," I replied.   He looked at the "list" and said, "Ah! An organ specification....and quite a good one too!"   This is an absolutely true tale, and I never did know his name or find out anything about him. He disappeared in time, and ever since, I have regretted not knowing.   Two years later, a homeless person camped outside a local methodist church in the village where I live, and my aunt was very kind to him. To cut a long story short, they eventually got married, and I gained the most wonderful uncle anyone could ever wish to have, and he turned out to be a gifted pianist..   Judge not etc.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote:   > At St. John's, our outreach to the homeless and poor > is not just donations of > food, clothing and money--we bring those in need to > US. It's been this way > for over 100 years.   > Does this mean there haven't been problems? No, of > course not.......we continue > to be committed to the challenge "whatsoever you do > to the least of us, you > do to Me".       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo  
(back) Subject: Re: homeless people around/ in churches From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:20:34 -0700 (PDT)   Greetings to all...   My home church serves as an overflow shelter during certain months (I think from January through March) for homeless people... The individuals first go to a shelter run under city govt. auspices, and if that center does not have enough rooom, the individuals are provided transportation to our church under the concept of a church providing sanctuary... They are given a light snack at night as I understand it... then in the morning before they leave they are given a voucher good, I think, at a fast food restaurant within walking distance....   As I understand it, at one time our shelter was able to get a partial financial subsidy from our state govt.... but we can no longer get that... so I guess our congregation is now carrying more of the financial burden than in the past....   There are certain areas in our church complex where these individuals are not allowed to go; and almost all of them comply... We have volunteers from various churches helping our church out... some come to open up and stay until about 11 PM; other come to be on duty through the nite; other come to "close up"... Some of the individuals sleep on the pews; and we also have some cots...   I've even heard that some of them have come to our church as a regular respected member of our congregation and have even pledged a little bit... Our city also has some shall we say "half-way" apartments to help them with their transition back to a better life... And yes, fortunately some of these people, by getting back on their feet, have been able to inspire others....   Best wishes to all.   Morton Belcher fellow list member...   --- Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote: > A prominent case in Manhattan is that of Fifth Ave. > Presbyterian Church, who > welcomes the homeless to sleep in the snow on the > front steps of the church. > It=B9s a pretty fancy shopping area, and the local > shoppes call the cops to > have them run off. The congregation hires lawyers > to protect their right to > welcome them (and wins the cases).   [good... I think this was a case of someone complaining too hastily... but I must admit when I have gone to NY, NY and have seen individual obstructing the subway exits during rush ours that I do get a bit annoyed...]   > > In my own very small parish, we=B9re not so heroic, > but we do serve upwards of > 300 meals a week, and have a (professionally > staffed) shelter in the > basement with a capacity unfortunately limited to > about seven. > > Alan www.stlukesnyc.org     [good for you all... our church does participate in some lunch programs, i. e., we put lunches together and then they are either picked up or taken to a site where they are distributed during the day... each little bit helps...]         _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:40:15 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Now let's read "Jerusalem" as it is meant to be read shall we?   And did those feet in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green? No!   And was the Holy Lamb of God On England's pleasant pastures seen? No he wasn't!   And did the Countenance Divine Shine forth upon our clouded hills? No.   And was Jerusalem builded here Among these dark satanic mills? Definitely not!   Bring me my bow of burning gold! Bring me my arrows of desire! Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold! Bring me my chariot of fire! I will not cease from mental fight, Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand, Till we have built Jerusalem In England's green and pleasant land.   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-   Does that make more sense in a Christian context?   Blake may have been a bit crazy, but he was very "anti-logic" and despised the Newtonian concept of rational thinking.   It has been suggested that the "dark satanic mills" may have been a reference to learning institutions and universities, where rational thinking and logic were most prevelant.   If it was a reference to actual mills, then the argument is still valid, for these were considered "progressive" by many, even though it brought working-class people to virtual slavery.   "Jersulam" was therefore a cry for greater spirituality, justice and evangelical endeavour.....completely Christian in fact.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- John Foss <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> wrote:   > Steven Skinner Steskinner@aol.com wrote > > "If any Christian church would not allow "Jerusalem > (And did those feet in > ancient times)" at a service, I imagine the reason > would be the complete > absence of any Christian content in the text."     > As a hymn, Jerusalem is admittedly > somewhat nationalistic - it was > written at a time when the British Empire was both > large and powerful.   > Jerusalem is not > anti Christian - it is > merely assuming, with some justification, that God > blessed Britain     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Homeless People From: "kosmiriam47" <kosmiriam47@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:50:33 -0700 (PDT)   I urge each and everyone to practice only in a secure space. I always = felt guilty for being afraid of the homeless people while walking through = Christ Church Cathedral Episcopal in St. Louis, Missouri where my = ex-husband served as interim Dean. Fortunately, the stairs to the organ = loft were always locked and I carried a personal alarm while leading = noonday prayers once a week. I recommend the book "The Gift of Fear". I = am submitting the following article: Friday, December 20, 2002 [Episcopal News Service] A 64-year-old church secretary, known for her = compassion and understanding in dealing with the homeless, died after = apparently being attacked by a homeless man in the hallway outside her = office December 19 at Christ Church Cathedral in downtown St. Louis.   Carol Bledsoe, who had worked at the cathedral for nearly four years, = reportedly went into the hallway shortly after lunchtime to investigate a = disturbance and was stabbed in the neck. She stumbled into the office of a = coworker, who called for help while another coworker administered first = aid. She was taken to a nearby hospital by fire department medics, where = she died a short time later.   Police soon arrested a 45-year-old man outside the cathedral whom one = officer described as having 'a mental condition.' The man was known to = cathedral workers, although he was not among the regular group of homeless = men who frequently participate in a morning breakfast program operated by = the cathedral. That breakfast program was open as usual the next morning.   Bledsoe was known by her coworkers as someone who did not tolerate foul = language or rude behavior from the homeless men and women who came to her = office, but she never failed to go the extra step to make sure their needs = were met and was patient in listening to their stories. She was on a = first-name basis with many of the men and women, who called her 'Miss = Carol.' As police taped off the Bishop Tuttle Memorial Building, housing = the cathedral and diocesan offices, word spread among the homeless men = gathering outside that 'Miss Carol had been stabbed.' A number of the men = were visibly upset.   'I don't know what to say. All I know is that it hurts,' Dean Ronald = Clingenpeel told a congregation of about 150 persons who gathered for a = prayer service in the Cathedral that evening.   The next morning, members of the cathedral and diocesan staffs, along with = a number of homeless persons attending the breakfast program, took part in = a Rite of Restoring Things Profaned. Bishop George Wayne Smith sprinkled = the floor with holy water, reclaiming the hallway and offices as holy = space.   Bledsoe and her husband, Jack lived in the St. Louis suburb of Affton and = were members of Emmanuel Episcopal Church in suburban Webster Groves. She = is survived by her husband, a son, and two grandchildren   Sylvia Wall, Director of Music   Church of the Bayou Presbyterian   Tarpon Springs, Florida         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: <Joshwwhite@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 02:10:12 EDT   In a message dated 9/15/2004 12:17:52 AM Central Standard Time, cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk writes:   I once sat in a public park as a boy of 14, and a homeless person with long hair and shabby clothing asked me what I was writing.   "I'm making a list," I replied.   He looked at the "list" and said, "Ah! An organ specification....and quite a good one too!"         A similar situation happened to me this summer, while I was loading some pipes into a trailer that had been worked on in the shop. A very shabby = man rode by on an old bycicle, and I assumed he was homeless, as there are = other homeless people nearby. He was quite gruff, and dirty. He stopped, and = asked me how many ranks the organ had, how many manuals, and which pipes were I =   loading. I thought this was a little strange, but after asking I found = out that he had been an organist before. I still do not know for sure if he is homeless, but I have not seen him since. Thanks, Josh White  
(back) Subject: Re: FW: homeless people around/ in churches From: <Joshwwhite@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 02:17:46 EDT   I want to point out that "most" homeless people are completely harmless. = In fact, due to overwhelming statistics, we should be much more aware of = those who are not homeless. And from what I have seen, the average homeless = people seem to go out on a limb to be good citizens. They have the unfortunate life of living without the luxuries we take for granted, and I would hate = to see them labeled as dangerous. Josh  
(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:35:56 -0700           > Steven Skinner Steskinner@aol.com wrote > > "If any Christian church would not allow "Jerusalem (And did those feet = in > ancient times)" at a service, I imagine the reason would be the complete > absence of any Christian content in the text." > > (big snip) > > And did those feet in ancient time > Walk upon England's mountains green? > And was the Holy Lamb of God > On England's pleasant pastures seen? > And did the Countenance Divine > Shine forth upon our clouded hills? > And was Jerusalem builded here > Among these dark satanic mills? > > Bring me my bow of burning gold! > Bring me my arrows of desire! > Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold! > Bring me my chariot of fire! > I will not cease from mental fight, > Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand, > Till we have built Jerusalem > In England's green and pleasant land. >   Um, I think everyone has missed the point.   The rhetorical question or elaborate conceit was a standard tool of the English metaphysical poets, and is as old as Greek and Roman discourses on logic.   Read the texts of Vaughan Williams' settings of the "Five Mystical Songs", in particular "Love Bade Me Welcome."   The questions in the first verse of Jerusalem are RHETORICAL; the answers are "NO." It was an INDICTMENT, a social protest, if you will, which makes sense, given its history.   The most ASSUREDLY Christian point is made in the last two lines of the SECOND verse, and refers to the New Jerusalem of Revelation:   "Till we have built Jerusalem In England's green and pleasant land."   The above interpretation was given by an English Anglican priest with an MDiv (Oxon.), so I suspect it's accurate <g>.   BTW, it makes a FINE tune for ANY L.M. Office Hymn with an even number of verses, since it's L.M.D. ... it was our "emergency" anthem for all those Holy Days that fall on Sunday once every six or seven years (chuckle). We also used to sing "O salutaris" to it at Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, since American congregations don't have quite the "Col. Blimp & Empire" associations with the tune that the British do.   Cheers,   Bud