PipeChat Digest #4771 - Wednesday, September 15, 2004
 
Re: Jerusalem
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
RE: Zoo Question
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: ELCA Sanctuary Lamps
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
"Zoo" question
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
zoological hymn text
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: ELCA Sanctuary Lamps
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Jerusalem
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Jerusalem
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: ELCA Sanctuary Lamps
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Jerusalem
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Jerusalem
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Ivan
  by <FLTim@aol.com>
Ivan and other things
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Christ Church Cathedral
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: Christ Church Cathedral
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Re: Christ Church Cathedral, St. Louis, MO
  by <tlevans95@charter.net>
Christ Church Cathedral
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: Christ Church Cathedral
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:09:46 +0300   Interesting to read Colin's and Liquescent's comments on Jerusalem, which seem to accord one with the other. I accept your points, though I don't think they detract from mine that it has a Christian content and, if = greatly loved by someone, is not inappropriate at their memorial service. It also sounds good on the organ, and has a magnificent organ part in the = orchestral version. In the event I got round the problem by improvising on it before the service began. But it did seem to smack of intolerance on the part of = a supposedly Christian organisation - after all, I think that this is what = the Church of England is - which I resented. And still do. Tolerance is called for if we are to have a better world. And more organs. John Foss   Colin Mitchell UK wrote "Jersualem" was therefore a cry for greater > spirituality, justice and evangelical > endeavour.....completely Christian in fact.    
(back) Subject: RE: Zoo Question From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:06:13 +0100   My wife sang the whole cycle of Hermit Songs at a recital last summer. = They are great, but I don't think they would fit on to the organ. (Far too pianistic in the accompaniments)   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Roy Kersey Sent: 15 September 2004 01:17 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Zoo Question   Hi Listers, Bruce Dersch's post reminded me of the Samuel Barber song "A Monk = and His Cat" from the "Hermit Songs", which goes:   Pangur, white Pangur, O how happy we are, Alone together, scholar and cat. Each has his own work to do daily, For you it is hunting, for me, study.=20 You rejoice when your claws entrap a mouse, I rejoice when my mind fathoms a problem . . .   Originally for soprano and piano, I think, but I would guess it could be transcribed for organ and voice. It's always been a favorite of mine. There are beautiful old recordings by both Eleanor Steber and Leontyne Price, both paired with "Knoxville, Summer of 1915" but that's another = story .. . . This last to me an extremely beautiful and spiritual work, but, = alas, not liturgical . . . or organic . . .=20 Best Regards, Roy Kersey Organ Enthusiast=20      
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA Sanctuary Lamps From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:56:57 -0400   The question about the "eternal flame lamps" generated a lot of = interesting discussion--especially about Catholic and Anglican tradition, etc.-- but here's one paragraph on the subject from the ELCA website. For the full discussion see:   http://www.elca.org/dcm/worship/faq/worship_space/print/lights_elements.htm= l   "It is not recommended to include eternal flame lamps in the worship = space. The rationale about the perpetual presence of God in the sanctuary is theologically weak. It may give worshipers the dubious notion that God is present in worship due to the presence of a light, or that God is on = hiatus if for some reason the light is accidentally extinguished!"    
(back) Subject: "Zoo" question From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:14:47 -0500   "Talk to the animals" from Dr. Doolittle....   seriously - any setting of "All Creatures of Our God and King" probably just about any other creation/nature type hymn maybe even that Christmas carol about the animals - I don't remember the name, but each verse invokes the perspective of different animals at the manger.   They should read from that story about the guy going to heaven with his dog - and the Desiderata-like dog poem Or readings from the Rainbow Bridge -   and my favorite "pet" scripture - "for by this we have entertained angels unawares."   for that matter, I think you could probably choose music about angels - unless your minister thinks that goes too far.   The only thing I always think about "blessing the animals" is that it is backwards - they should bless us. They are the ones unencumbered by original sin or malice....   Miltronix2004@wmconnect.com wrote: > Hi, all. > > We're having a "service of blessing of animals" on an October = afternoon, > right in the church (oh, boy!) > > Can anyone suggest keyboard and/or vocal music that might fit? We could > have a soloist, and/or I could use organ, piano, or synth... but I'm > scratching my head on this one. > > Halp! Any ideas?? This is a serious request. Offlist replies would > prolly work best. > > Thanky, Bill Miller Norfolk VA     -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio        
(back) Subject: zoological hymn text From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:10:23 -0400   I came across these stanzas by Isaac Watts that may (or may not) be appropriate for a bless-the-beasts service:   "Let dogs delight to bark and bite, =A0=A0=A0For God hath made them so; Let bears and lions growl and fight, =A0=A0=A0For 'tis their nature too.   But children, you should never let =A0=A0=A0Such angry passions rise; Your little hands were never made =A0=A0=A0To tear each other's eyes.       Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA Sanctuary Lamps From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:18:50 EDT   eadams quotes the ELCA website:   "It is not recommended to include eternal flame lamps in the worship = space. The rationale about the perpetual presence of God in the sanctuary is theologically weak. It may give worshipers the dubious notion that God is present in worship due to the presence of a light, or that God is on = hiatus if for some reason the light is accidentally extinguished!"   This is a real hoot. Seems to me, it is the worshippers (and their Pastor) =   that would be theologically weak if, in fact, the presence of a sanctuary = lamp were to actually cause some congregant to actually think such a thing!   Unintentionally on the part of the author of this quote, I'm sure, this is =   laughably paternalistic. Reminds me of the way some Victorian missionaries =   thought about their "savage" converts. Don't get me wrong--I love the = ELCA, but this is one of the most amusing things I've seen in a very long time. = Thanks for posting it.   Pax, Bill H. Boston  
(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:54:26 +0800   "Jerusalem" is sung at many functions in my state of Australia, some in church services, some at national functions (Anzac Day). The religious content in the song is quite obvious I believe. The theme is social = justice for which we reserve a Sunday in this country. We also have a "last night = of the Proms" in my town at which it is also sung. Bob Elms. > > >> "If any Christian church would not allow "Jerusalem (And did those feet =   >> in >> ancient times)" at a service, I imagine the reason would be the = complete >> absence of any Christian content in the text."   > The most ASSUREDLY Christian point is made in the last two lines of the > SECOND verse, and refers to the New Jerusalem of Revelation: > > "Till we have built Jerusalem > In England's green and pleasant land." > > The above interpretation was given by an English Anglican priest with an =   > MDiv (Oxon.), so I suspect it's accurate <g>. >    
(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:02:43 -0600   Hello, Harry:   * * * > How would those in the States react if a ban were to be imposed on an > old-standard, such as the Battle Hymn (particularly in these > emotionally-charged times) ?   Yea, . . . veryily, in fact this song was held in reserve in the Deep South during and following the War Between the States (1860-1864) and for many years afterward, especially where anti-North sentiments still prevailed. I grew up in that Deep South tradition, and by the time I was old enough to accept the Battle Hymn of the Republic as a valid "church" song, I knew many of the older people who still regarded the Republic and its Battle Hymn as part of the Yankee impositions that should not be honored among True Sons of the South.   Now, . . . I will sit down and be quiet for a while, as "what once was" is contemplated, and what "now is" can be better understood. Among many people in the Deep South, there is still strong sentiment against any and all things that represent that which came from the North to change "our way of life." This is among "what is."   For most of us, we got over it, but there are still pockets of resentment, and if you pursue that line of thinking, you will uncover some very dirty laundry.   Among them are attitudes that "those Yankees brought us high church music and organs, so let's not get caught up with them." <grins> .. . . which might explain the Anti-High-Church-Music resentment that has burst forth among the preachers in the past 25 years against Contemporary Christian Music with guitars, basses, mandolins, banjos, trumpets, trombones, drums, and gospel singing ensembles amplified to the point of pain in the ears. <grins>   F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: ELCA Sanctuary Lamps From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:09:55 -0600   Hello, Emily, et al:   > "It is not recommended to include eternal flame lamps in the worship space. > The rationale about the perpetual presence of God in the sanctuary is > theologically weak. It may give worshipers the dubious notion that God is > present in worship due to the presence of a light, or that God is on hiatus > if for some reason the light is accidentally extinguished!"   One of my friends, in many days past, quipped, "In the Old Testament, God made a Temple for His people.   "In the New Testament, God made a people for His Temple."   Think about it.   F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:19:12 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:54 AM Subject: Re: Jerusalem > > The most ASSUREDLY Christian point is made in the last two lines of = the > > SECOND verse, and refers to the New Jerusalem of Revelation: > > > > "Till we have built Jerusalem > > In England's green and pleasant land." > > > > The above interpretation was given by an English Anglican priest with = an > > MDiv (Oxon.), so I suspect it's accurate <g>.   I think the gentleman concerned is an M.A. (Oxon.); as far as I know they don't have an M.Div. and the divinity degrees are still B.D. and D.D. The Bachelor of Divinity is actually a "higher" degree beyond the normal doctorate, which is called D.Phil., and few people aspire to it. The = normal first degree in Theology would be a B.A. The same is true of the BCL (Bachelor of Civil Law) and BMus, while the B.M. (Bachelor of Medicine) is equivalent to an American M.D. Thus a musician with the equivalent of an American Ph.D. would have a D.Phil., while a B.Mus. or D.Mus. would be highly exalted indeed. There is a newer degree called the M.Theol. that = is intended for students in seminaries affiliated with the university, but = that has only recently been introduced and is more of a professional qualification than an academic degree <snif>.   I seem to remember from somewhere that Parry wrote the tune of "Jerusalem" for the Women's Suffrage movement. Does anyone know if this is true?   John Speller, D.Phil. (Oxon.)        
(back) Subject: Jerusalem From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:04:46 -0500   Re: Jerusalem at a funeral: I can't imagine why Jerusalem wouldn't be appropriate at a funeral. As has been pointed out, the first verse is made up of rhetorical questions to which the answer is clearly, "no." The subsequent verse points out the holy obligation to work to make the answer to these questions a definite "yes." So it is a clear call to witness, service, duty.   And what a lovely tune! I had never heard it until I was listening to a CD of an OHS convention--and I've been totally captivated by it ever since.   Dennis Steckley   "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss        
(back) Subject: Re: Ivan From: <FLTim@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:23:45 EDT   Dear Glenda, My prayers are certainly with you and your neighbors. Please let us know =   how you made it through the storm as soon as possible. The material = things can all be replaced, but human lives cannot. Please evacuate if you have any =   doubts about the safety of where you'll be. Best regards from Tampa Bay, Tim Newby, Vice President     Central Music, Inc.   Relevant instruments for every worship style. Representing Rodgers digital organs, Fratelli Ruffatti pipe organs and Bluthner concert pianos www.centralmusic.biz ~ (800) 537-7473 ~ (727) 573-4654 Serving Florida since 1958  
(back) Subject: Ivan and other things From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:28:30 -0500   Thanks for everyone's concern. I received the most uplifting call from list member Mike Cole, all the way from England! Everyone's prayers are much coveted.   The prediction is that the eye of Ivan will make landfall about Mobile, which is about 100 miles west of us. We know better than to count on that, because we are still about 10 hours from landfall.   I picked up my mother, who is here with us. My brother, wife and her son came up from Mary Esther - they live less than 4 blocks from the Sound, and not far from Navarre Beach. My niece in north county refuses to leave her dog (I have a kennel here, but she's afraid he will dig out), so she is staying at her home. Hopefully her mother and grandmother will join her. Rick is part of the sheriff's department involved in patrolling, helping others to evacuate, and other official duties. We have lots of food (just finished cooking a huge pot of my Irish stew), some ice, water caught up, and all beds made. Everything is spic-and-span. The cats are pissed that we have company - what they don't realize is that there is a strange cat in the guest room!   I hate to take up bandwidth on off-topic matters, but please remember us all down here. There are several new and nice organs in Mobile, right downtown. But more importantly, Mobile had less advance notice than we did, and they still remember Hurricane Frederick which hit in 1979 - massive damage occurred, and it was not a Cat 4.   One other thing to report, which has upset me more than the storm. I received a call today that one of my dear friends, a guardian ad litem and one of the biggest supporters of my former recital series at the church, was found stabbed to death in her home. Rick has told me not to contact her brother, also a dear friend, until we are sure all the kin are notified. She was a great friend, and constantly encouraged me in all my endeavors, organic and work-related. She was a leader of the local Democratic party, and a Southern Baptist lady - always wore the most precocious hats to church! I cannot believe this has happened, and will miss her greatly. The news has upset my mother, who lives alone, so we will be speeding our efforts to build her a cottage on our property.   Michael, the CD with my stuff for safekeeping is on its way to you. David, thanks for the phone number.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Christ Church Cathedral From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:00:48 -0500   I have played the Reuter organ in Christ Church Cathedral in St. Louis. The organ is in the rear gallery, and the festival trumpet is at the other end of the nave near the altar. When you accompany the solo trumpet with the gallery organ, you hear the accompaniment long (one second?-but long enough!) before you hear the solo. If you are not counting and depending on your ear-it's a train wreck.=20       The organ is from the 1960's, I believe, and has four manual divisions: Unenclosed Great and Positiv, Enclosed Swell and Choir. The Positiv is a free-standing division (no casework) located behind the player in the traditional "ruckpositiv" or "chair (choir)" location. The acoustics in the cathedral are very fine and very live.   =20   Daniel=20   Springfield, Missouri   =20   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of kosmiriam47 Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:51 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Homeless People   =20   I urge each and everyone to practice only in a secure space. I always felt guilty for being afraid of the homeless people while walking through Christ Church Cathedral Episcopal in St. Louis, Missouri where my ex-husband served as interim Dean. Fortunately, the stairs to the organ loft were always locked and I carried a personal alarm while leading noonday prayers once a week. I recommend the book "The Gift of Fear". I am submitting the following article:   =20   =20  
(back) Subject: Re: Christ Church Cathedral From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:15:58 EDT   In a message dated 9/15/2004 5:02:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, dhancock@brpae.com writes:   > I have played the Reuter organ   i thought it was an AS........the delay was atroucious and you just had to =   play ahead of yourself......on another type of list i would use diferent = words for sure.   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Re: Re: Christ Church Cathedral, St. Louis, MO From: <tlevans95@charter.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:26:13 +0000   From Quimby's Website.   "Made major upgrades to the cathedral's 1964 Aeolian-Skinner pipe organ. = Provided a new console with Harris components, a Solid State Logic Systems = multiplex relay and mmultilevelcombination action, 1988. Revoiced pipes = according to the cathedral's musical requirements for improved evenness = and clarity, 1988. Added an 8' Harmonic Flute and an 8' English Horn = voiced to blend with the existing pipes, 1995. Releathered the positive = division, 1995. Releathered the choir division, 1996."    
(back) Subject: Christ Church Cathedral From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:44:16 -0500   List member David in DC pointed out that I made a mistake in a previous post in naming the Christ Church Cathedral organ a Reuter-and thanks to him for that. Pat Partridge, cathedral organist, gave me a run-down of the organ history at the cathedral when I met him, and I confused the facts. After checking my records, I confirmed that here was a Reuter organ at Christ Church Cathedral in St. Louis-Opus 75 in 1921-and it was this organ that I was thinking of. The current organ, according to the Aeolian-Skinner opus list (http://www.uwm.edu/~slayden/Specs/Op1435.html) has a completion date of 1965, and is opus 1435. =20   The trumpet I referred to in my previous post is the "Trumpet de Reredos," a term which describes its location. You can see the specification at the above-listed address.   =20   Daniel   Springfield, Missouri   =20   =20   -----Original Message----- From: DudelK@aol.com [mailto:DudelK@aol.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:05 PM To: Daniel Hancock Subject: Christ Church Cathedral   =20   Excuse me, but it's an Aeolian-Skinner, not a Reuter. I was there when it went in (in St. Louis that is) and heard it on many occasions. Ronald Arnatt even did an album in the A-S King of Instruments series on it.   David in DC   St. Louis native and sometime resident  
(back) Subject: Re: Christ Church Cathedral From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:46:07 -0500   The organ is an Aeolian-Skinner from 1965 with a few tonal changes by = Quimby Pipe Organs. They have never had a Reuter, except a small one in = their chapel in the 1920's. The chapel now has a Moller rebuilt by = Aeolian-Skinner. The inside of the cathedral is covered with Gustavino = tiles, and although these have been painted with many layers of = sound-reflective paint the acoustics are from good. The organ, however, = sounds very good in spite of this.   John Speller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Daniel Hancock=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:00 PM Subject: Christ Church Cathedral     I have played the Reuter organ in Christ Church Cathedral in St. = Louis. The organ is in the rear gallery, and the festival trumpet is at = the other end of the nave near the altar. When you accompany the solo = trumpet with the gallery organ, you hear the accompaniment long (one = second?-but long enough!) before you hear the solo. If you are not = counting and depending on your ear-it's a train wreck.=20       The organ is from the 1960's, I believe, and has four manual = divisions: Unenclosed Great and Positiv, Enclosed Swell and Choir. The = Positiv is a free-standing division (no casework) located behind the = player in the traditional "ruckpositiv" or "chair (choir)" location. = The acoustics in the cathedral are very fine and very live.