PipeChat Digest #4778 - Sunday, September 19, 2004
 
Re: "Rector's Pleasure"
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
OFF-TOPIC: making do in California (some on-topic stuff further down)
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
New Hymn
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: New Hymn
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Unusual Complaint vs. Unusually Compliant
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: Unusual Complaint vs. Unusually Compliant
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: New Hymn
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: New Hymn
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: New Hymn
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
New Hymn - continued
  by <RVScara@aol.com>
Re: Unusual Complaint vs. Unusually Compliant
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
Re: New Hymn
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: New Hymn
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
church bells
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: church bells
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: "Rector's Pleasure" From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 06:20:07 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: "Rector's Pleasure"     > Is there actually a written statement in the canon law of the Episcopal > church that states the staff must submit resignations? > I have never seen it in print, despite it being a "custom".   Not only is there no written statement in Canon Law that staff must submit resignations, but a motion passed at the General Convention of 1997 states that they should NOT. New Rectors are urged as far as possible to keep = the former staff and work with them. Obviously there will be cases where individuals find it impossible to work together, but these should be the exception rather than the rule.   John Speller, St. Mark's Episcopal Church, St. Louis.      
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC: making do in California (some on-topic stuff further down) From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:15:03 -0700   Dear Friends,   Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.   I was one of the founders of the GLBT Community Center in San Diego in the 1970s. I worked there in just about every capacity there was, as a volunteer, and then as a paid staff member ... peer counselor, social worker, hotline coordinator, crash housing supervisor, soup kitchen chief cook and bottle washer, newsletter editor, bookkeeper, office manager, building maintenance supervisor.   So I KNOW my way around the system. I've sat on the OTHER side of the desk, so I KNOW what I'm talking about.   "End welfare as we know it" has resulted in a HUGE refrigerator box and plastic drop-cloth village down on Imperial Ave, south of Market St., and LONG lines at a free soup kitchen in a dusty vacant lot on Broadway.   As I mentioned on another list, many downtown churches provide sleeping pads, blankets, and porta-potties in their parking lots for the homelesss.   The gymnasiums and other buildings in Balboa Park are opened as emergency shelters if it rains (which only happens about twice a year here), or if the temperature drops below 45-50 degrees F (that's COLD for us in SoCal).   County Welfare gives short-term motel vouchers to families with children, but not to single men.   Salvation Army has stopped taking single men altogether.   Single mothers with children who wish to get off welfare and take job training have a very difficult time, because childcare is virtually nonexistent.   County Medical Assistance gives short-term medical care for three months at a time; it may or may not be renewed.   The Roman Catholic hospital emergency room will take indigent patients with catastrophic illnesses.   Waiting time at the County Hospital emergency room is 10-12 hours, unless the patient is brought in by ambulance.   General Relief pays single men $100 a month.   Food Stamps pays $150 a month, but there's a catch: you have to have a place to store and prepare food.   There's NO place in San Diego where you can get a room with a hotplate and an icebox for $100 a month.   St. Vincent de Paul Village takes women and children for a month, but not single men.   In order to APPLY for Social Security Disability, one has to have been unable to work for a year. What one is supposed to LIVE on for that year isn't specified. The appeal process taks 12-18 months ... the initial application and request for reconsideration are ALWAYS rejected pro forma.   HOPWA provides rental subsidies for people with AIDS, but they're funded by the Ryan White program, and that's been frozen.   Section 8 housing assistance applications don't transfer from county to county ... we'd been on that waiting list for six years in Orange County; when we moved back to San Diego, we went back to the bottom of the list. The waiting period is approximately seven years.   Food is still available, through Meals on Wheels and the Native American government surplus provisions program. The AIDS Food Bank provides one sack of groceries every two weeks ... about $25 worth of staples, mostly. I think SHANTI in San Diego has pretty much folded.   One of our biggest problems in San Diego is that the umbrella AIDS Foundation has folded ... everything used to be under one roof; now it's piecemeal and scattered all over the city, and there's no coordination among agencies.   In my situation, lay church workers are not eligible for unemployment OR State Disability,and neither ECUSA or the continuing churches have any sort of disability, unemployment, or pension plans for lay workers.   The American Guild of Organists has tried to get a group health insurance and pension plan off the ground, but I haven't heard anything about that in a long time.   Some churches have opted into those programs voluntarily, and I was negotiating with the Vestry of St. Matthew's to do that; instead they increased my hours, cut my salary and benefits, and basically forced me to resign by employing "creative dismissal." I was making $35K/yr in a county where the average rent is $2000/mo and the average salary is well over $100K, and working 50-60 hrs/wk.   I was disabled 1993/1997 as the result of spinal surgery. I went through all my savings and sold off virtually everything of value I owned to survive for the four years it to me to recover from THAT. I was able to go back to work 1997-2003; then I became disabled again.   Yes, California IN THE PAST was fairly generous with public assistance, housing, etc., but that ended with ENRON and the energy crisis, and the general Republican perception that poor people are responsible for their situation, and should be able to simply "buck up" and "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps."   The reality is somewhat different. A person with no place to live, no place to shower, no telephone, and no clean clothes has little chance of getting a job; the free community clinic where I get my medical care has the following on its application regarding place of residence:   1. Canyon 2. Park 3. Freeway underpass 4. Street 5. Shelter 6. Friends 7. Apartment 9. House 10. Other   When I was still working at the Union-Tribune, I used to climb the hill from Mission Valley to UCSD Medical Center every day on my lunch hour for exercise; there were at least three BIG migrant worker camps concealed in the canyon that ran up the side of the hill.   In the inner-city complex where I live now, there are families with children living illegally in all the garages with no electricity, running water, or toilets. Most were evicted from their apartments because they couldn't pay the rent; the rest of us in the complex turn a blind eye and leave our garages unlocked.   My partner and a couple of our neighbors dug up the side yard of one of the cottages and planted a garden, so at least they have some fresh fruits and vegetables.   We buy whatever happens to be on sale in bulk and distribute to the complex ... whoever happens to have money at the time helps pay for it.   If anyone is alone or sick, the other people in the complex bring over food and check on them; if I happen to get a donation for music and OUR bills are paid for the moment and somebody ELSE'S gas & electric is about to be shut off, we "loan" them the money; they do the same for us.   We have a complex-wide "pay the rent yard sale" once a month and split the profits. My partner and a couple of the neighbors collect junk and furniture and refinish/refurbish it to sell in the yard sales.   We collect cans and bottles for recycling; that brings in emough money to buy a little food for the people who need it the most.   So that's how we make do ... but the high rents in San Diego eat us ALIVE. This is a run-down complex in a "questionable" part of town, MILES from the beach, on a very noisy main street ... the three houses in front (small cottages, 2br 1 ba) rent for $1200-$1500/mo; the six tiny 1br garage apartments in the back rent for $800-$1000/mo. We COULD move to one of those, except that I can't climb stairs, and my partner is getting to the point where he can't either.   So ... like the marginalized people downtown, we HAVE cobbled together a small semi-viable community ... but it's always on the ragged edge.   It's an interesting microcosm; it would make a GREAT study for somebody working on a degree in social work (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud              
(back) Subject: New Hymn From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:28:59 -0500   Our "new" hymn this month is over 200 years old--"Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" (Grosser Gott). I chose it because: A. It's a wonderful hymn which our congregation didn't know. B. It's in our hymnal. C. It was a contemporary Christian "hit" about five years ago, so I can legitimately claim they are learning CCM!   Dennis Steckley   "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss        
(back) Subject: Re: New Hymn From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:30:29 -0400   on 9/19/04 2:28 PM, First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois at kzrev@rr1.net wrote:   > Our "new" hymn this month is over 200 years old--"Holy God, We Praise > Thy Name" (Grosser Gott). I chose it because: > A. It's a wonderful hymn which our congregation didn't know. > B. It's in our hymnal. > C. It was a contemporary Christian "hit" about five years ago, so I can > legitimately claim they are learning CCM! > > Dennis Steckley     How do you mean C? I've not been following CCM. Did some CCM band record it? I've noticed over the past two decades that the local Catholic church has sung it about every time I've subbed. It seems to be one of the half-dozen hymns they know. I've chosen it in my Lutheran church, and = it's sung, more or less, but I don't think the Lutherans know it. Yet it's certainly a Catholic favorite.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: Unusual Complaint vs. Unusually Compliant From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:45:39 EDT   At a church where we were known for doing "good" music, we did Vivaldi's Gloria one year, in Latin, with orchestra, Harpsichord, and organ. The = sanctuary was packed and obviously enjoyed it. The next Sunday the Music Director = was on vacation and the pastor who had been there about 2 years, planning to = make this a mega - praiseband type church, said from the pulpit that we were = never going to grow or reach people for Christ if the choir sang music people = didn't understand in a foreign tongue, an obvious slap at the Music Director who = had been there 25 years and very much loved and respected. It was less than = six months later when this pastor gave his resignation and was called to a = larger church. Three years later I saw in the church paper where he had been = called to another church. My former church was getting ready to start two services on Sunday morning = - one formal and one with a praiseband. I was to play synthizer. Before = this happened, Keith came along and took me away from all that, not that it was = bad, if that is what God wanted. The church attendance began to decline and = the pastor was called to another church, along with the youth director, who = was in charge of the praiseband. The only staff member left is the Music = Director who has been there 30 years now, and still very much loved and respected. =   Church attendance is beginning to increase. Where I am now there is no interest in a praiseband. There are = instruments for one, but no one who plays them. We have a blended song service, = mostly hymns, but some favorite choruses. For Christmas we are doing a = contemporary cantata, but in good taste. For the offertory this morning the pianist = played her flute and I accompanied her on Amazing Grace. We did it out of the = hymnal. The first verse was flute alone; second flute and organ; third flute and organ, but in a minor key and a change of stops on the organ; last verse = modulated to C. It was very beautiful and appreciated. She is a very fine flutist (flautist), as well as accomplished pianist. Lee  
(back) Subject: Re: Unusual Complaint vs. Unusually Compliant From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:50:44 EDT   Burt, my fingers run ahead of my mind, and I don't remember what I wrote until I see it online. Lee  
(back) Subject: Re: New Hymn From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:58:04 -0700   Many RC churches used to have nightly novena (prayer) services, which always closed with Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament (blessing of the people with the consecrated Communion bread). "Holy God" was the invariable closing hymn at Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.   Those services reached the height of their popularity during WWII ... the Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, MI (home of the mighty Kilgen) used to broadcast them over the radio.   Part of the services' popularity was due to the fact that they were in ENGLISH at a time when Mass was in Latin.   Actually, between the St. Basil Hymnal and the St. Gregory Hymnal, pre-Vatican-II Roman Catholics DID have a modest repertoire of hymns. The liturgical deformers (sic) turned up their noses at them (particularly at St. Basil, which was, of course, the most well-known and loved). Healy Willan (!) was the musical editor; the hymns in St. Basil are no better or worse than some of the best-loved Victorian Anglican favorites; they're CERTAINLY better than "ToolanBread" and "Turkey Buzzards" (grin).   St. Gregory was really more of a choir book ... old RC organists and school nuns will remember the battle between the two, which accounts for a lot of Montani's bitchy footnotes in St. Gregory (grin). The St. Gregory Guild's "White List" attempted to ban virtually everything in St. Basil's Hymnal, but nobody paid any attention (chuckle).   St. Gregory DID have some good stuff in it that wasn't generally available elsewhere: the Michael Haydn Tenebrae Responsories, and the Schubert Palm Sunday music. But in general it was over-edited and the pages were cluttered; St. Basil's pages are far cleaner, and better-engraved, even though the book is older. I don't doubt that Dr. Willan had a lot to do with THAT (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Randolph Runyon wrote:   > on 9/19/04 2:28 PM, First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois at > kzrev@rr1.net wrote: > > >>Our "new" hymn this month is over 200 years old--"Holy God, We Praise >>Thy Name" (Grosser Gott). I chose it because: >>A. It's a wonderful hymn which our congregation didn't know. >>B. It's in our hymnal. >>C. It was a contemporary Christian "hit" about five years ago, so I can >>legitimately claim they are learning CCM! >> >>Dennis Steckley > > > > How do you mean C? I've not been following CCM. Did some CCM band = record > it? I've noticed over the past two decades that the local Catholic = church > has sung it about every time I've subbed. It seems to be one of the > half-dozen hymns they know. I've chosen it in my Lutheran church, and = it's > sung, more or less, but I don't think the Lutherans know it. Yet it's > certainly a Catholic favorite. > > > Randy Runyon > Music Director > Zion Lutheran Church > Hamilton, Ohio > runyonr@muohio.edu > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: New Hymn From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:18:01 -0400   The historical detail in Bud's post giving background on the popularity of "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" is absolutely fascinating! Thank you, Bud. What a resource you are.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: New Hymn From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:05:36 -0400   On 9/19/04 2:28 PM, "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> wrote:   > It was a contemporary Christian "hit" about five years ago, so I can legitimately claim they are learning CCM!   Or, should you wish, you =B3can legitimately claim=B2 that it is a pretty old traditional hymn, too! (It was first published in Vienna when George Washington (in Virginia) was prepubescent [I=B9m guessing; he was just 12].)   ONE genuine feature of that tune is that it is very SIMPLE=8Bin any of the MANY different versions in which it=B9s published. And fun to sing, besides.   But, on the seriouser side, how on earth was it a =B3hit=B2 in any contemporary Christian context? That=B9s a mild surprise!   Alan    
(back) Subject: New Hymn - continued From: <RVScara@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:37:26 EDT   Bud's memory on these things is amazing, indeed. The hymn "Holy God" did have a comeback several years ago. It was "modernized" at one of those = traveling liturgy/music shows by simply picking up the tempo. It was usually = dragged out when sung at those Novena services. Bud may recall the altar boys having to count the congregation before a service at which there was Benediction. There had to be 10 present in the =   congregation to have it. Novena prayers came before the Benediction = rite. The pr iest would start those prayers with less than 10. Since incense was used = at Benediction and charcoal had to be lit; the priest was alone on the altar = and had his back to the people; altar boys had to watch the congregation from the = Sacristy door for late comers. Don't dare light that charcoal if 10 did = not show up, the stuff cost money. I still use my St Basil and St Gregory hymnals, shabby as they are, for organ fillers at communion time. Many of the hymns have crept back into = several current hymnal editions. The St Basil was banned in some dioceses; = someone said too many of the hymn tunes sounded like old Irish lullabies. The RC publishers survey parish musicians before they issue new editions, every = 3-4 years, and a number of oldies are being requested along with some Latin = mass musical settings. Implementation of the newest RC ritual and liturgy guidelines is = scheduled for November. They include removing or severely minimizing the presence = of statuary in the sanctuary (we have 9) and having only one crucifix (we = have 3 and one is 10 feet high). Since these were all donated by parishioners = over many years, when this is announced from the pulpit there will be hell to = pay. A small fortune in flowers gets delivered each Saturday, purchased by whomever, cards saying to place them in front of a specific statue, the = buyer's favorite saint. Big cutback for the local florists. Musically, to keep this appropriate, more emphasis on choir participation = in the liturgy and use of Latin chant and psalms.  
(back) Subject: Re: Unusual Complaint vs. Unusually Compliant From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:15:50 EDT   I had a similar experience in my home congregation (LCA) back when I was = in college. We got a new pastor when the one who had been there 15 years or = so left to go to a bigger parish. Since we couldn't find a decent pianist to = play for the junior/junior high/senior high sunday school worship service, I = had put together a small instrumental ensemble to play the hymns. We had = about 8 people in total, and most sundays we had a least four, so there was = usually some kind of four part harmony (although difficult with say, 4 trumpets). We = had played this way for several years, and when the new pastor came, he didn't = say a whole lot to us about it (nor did he even ask us to play for the main worship service - something we would've gladly done). Instead, he wrote an = article for the monthly newsletter entitled "Who's Hiding the Talent." The former =   pastor had pretty much called all the shots, and we knew he didn't like = the idea of anything other than organ used in the worship service (perhaps he knew = what could happen with inexperienced musicians cracking under pressure?). = Anyway, the new pastor, during one of the choir rehearsals several months before Church Music Sunday, asked the music director if she could get some kind = of instrumental ensemble to play on that day (and 5 of us were also in the = choir). She looked sort of shocked with a "Why don't you ask them?" look on her face. = She looked at me and asked whether we could do something, and I said sure. (Notice the pastor never asked me directly). I went into high gear, = talking to anyone connected with the church who played an instrument to at least = think about participating. IIRC, I had about 18 people agreeing to participate - from =   beginners in their first year of school band to adults who hadn't played = in years. I did a couple of appropriate arrangements, providing easy parts = for the beginners, and parts for other players that wouldn't be too taxing, and = more difficult parts for the more experienced musicians. The day before, I = went to set up the chairs and make sure everything was in order. I happened to = look in the bulletin, and saw absolutely no mention of the pieces we were planning = on playing (and had been rehearsing), nor anything about the instrumental ensemble. He happened to be in his office that day so I went in and asked = why we weren't in the bulletin. His response was that since the choir was = already doing a couple of anthems, and there were a couple of extra hymns, he = didn't think there would be time for us to play. I (trying to keep my cool) asked him when he was going to tell us about this. He replied that he thought he = would tell the first person who showed up on sunday and they could relay that to everyone else. I told him that we had put a lot of work into this, and = there were going to be a lot of proud parents there the next day, and if he didn't = let us play, we would do it anyway. He finally backed down and we did the = prelude and postlude as planned. He didn't speak to me for months afterwards, but = about 6 months later, he "invited" about 1/3 of the congregation (i.e., sunday school teachers, choir members, library staff, altar guild, church = council, etc) to leave, saying he was sure we all would be happier in different congregations.   I certainly was (and that congregation seems to still be picking up the pieces, 30 years later)   Richard Spittel Baltimore, MD  
(back) Subject: Re: New Hymn From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:26:12 -0400   On 9/19/04 2:30 PM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote:   > I don't think the Lutherans know it. Yet it's certainly a Catholic favor= ite.   Grosser Gott? Oh, my, yes! I've sung it all my life, from LOTS of Luthera= n hymnals (and from none other=8BI had a sheltered childhood). I used to think it WAS a specifically Lutheran hymn, but it was hugely promoted by (devoutl= y Roman) Empress Maria Teresa of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and is genuinel= y RC. Which is fine with me.   The RC church a block from my house plays it on their electronic bells EXCEEDINGLY often. Fine!   And, in spite of its origin, I think it has a good bid for total ecumenical "possession" nowadays.   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: New Hymn From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:03:05 -0400   on 9/19/04 6:26 PM, Alan Freed at acfreed0904@earthlink.net wrote:   On 9/19/04 2:30 PM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote:   > I don't think the Lutherans know it. Yet it's certainly a Catholic favor= ite.   Grosser Gott? Oh, my, yes! I've sung it all my life, from LOTS of Luthera= n hymnals (and from none other=8BI had a sheltered childhood). I used to think it WAS a specifically Lutheran hymn, but it was hugely promoted by (devoutl= y Roman) Empress Maria Teresa of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and is genuinel= y RC. Which is fine with me.   The RC church a block from my house plays it on their electronic bells EXCEEDINGLY often. Fine!   And, in spite of its origin, I think it has a good bid for total ecumenical "possession" nowadays.   Alan=20   Well, my Lutherans are not very knowledgeable about Lutheran hymns. They know more Southern Baptist gospel tunes than Lutheran chorales. Can you elaborate a bit on Maria Teresa? You mean she actually promoted this hymn?   They let that RC church play _electronic_ bells in Manhattan? Quelle horreur! Doesn't someone complain?     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: church bells From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:18:42 -0700   Church bells are pretty non-existent in polyglot California, due to noise abatement ordinances ... I think it's kinda sad.   If they tried that in ultra-Catholic Cincinnati, there'd be a RIOT (grin). Cincinnati sounds like Rome on Easter Day at 6 a.m., noon, and 6 p.m. (the hours when the Angelus is rung) EVERY DAY. I lived within sound of FIVE towers, all with multiple bells, and one with a cast-bell chime of about an octave and a half ... enough to play hymn-tunes.   In addition, most of the older churches pealed their tower bells during the Elevations at EVERY Sunday Mass (at least) ... I think that's a German custom. At least a couple of Episcopal churches did too.   Technically, both electronic bells AND electronic organs were FORBIDDEN in the RC Church by canon law, and required the permission of the bishop for them to be used as TEMPORARY substitutes. It USED to be that you had to submit a plan for replacing them with the real thing in order to GET the permission, but obviously that's gone by the wayside since Vatican II.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: church bells From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:33:03 -0400   on 9/19/04 8:18 PM, Liquescent at quilisma@cox.net wrote:   > Church bells are pretty non-existent in polyglot California, due to > noise abatement ordinances ... I think it's kinda sad. > > If they tried that in ultra-Catholic Cincinnati, there'd be a RIOT > (grin). Cincinnati sounds like Rome on Easter Day at 6 a.m., noon, and 6 > p.m. (the hours when the Angelus is rung) EVERY DAY. I lived within > sound of FIVE towers, all with multiple bells, and one with a cast-bell > chime of about an octave and a half ... enough to play hymn-tunes.   If I lived near church bells, I'd far rather hear non-hymn ringing than = hymn tunes. > > In addition, most of the older churches pealed their tower bells during > the Elevations at EVERY Sunday Mass (at least) ... I think that's a > German custom. At least a couple of Episcopal churches did too.   My ELCA church rings the tower bells (two notes) every time they recite = the Lord's Prayer. > > Technically, both electronic bells AND electronic organs were FORBIDDEN > in the RC Church by canon law, and required the permission of the bishop > for them to be used as TEMPORARY substitutes. It USED to be that you had > to submit a plan for replacing them with the real thing in order to GET > the permission, but obviously that's gone by the wayside since Vatican = II. >   Boy, those were the days.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu