PipeChat Digest #5257 - Tuesday, April 5, 2005
 
Weddings in general...
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
RE: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors]
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet
  by "Millie & David Kenney" <kenn411@bellsouth.net>
Re: Re: A crash course,  please
  by "Hell-Concerts@t-online.de" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
The Pope and Sacred Music
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
Re: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors]
  by "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net>
RE: A crash course,  please
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
RE: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors]
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: The Pope and Sacred Music
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Timing is everything ... [was RE: Tuning Pipes ...]
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Wedding fees
  by "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com>
Change of email address.
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
 

(back) Subject: Weddings in general... From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:10:30 -0700   I'm currently charging $175, and that includes a consultation, attending = the rehearsal (we practice going in and out first then I leave while they do = the other stuff, unless, of course, they are friends) and the wedding. I've = had to become quite firm about the payment being made at the rehearsal or = before because it is difficult and somewhat embarrassing to chase down the family while they are trying to do other things - I tell them absolutely payment = at the rehearsal or before, and ever since I used the story about it causing extra trouble for the family when they forget the check ALWAYS comes = before the rehearsal. If there are no odd requests for a soloist and I know the singer, I don't add a surcharge, but if I don't know the singer and/or = they choose music that requires significant rehearsal time on my part, I charge $25/hr.     Wedding music is one area that I remain pretty firm about. I stick with = the traditional things, and I don't do non-sacred vocal music at all. I had a situation that I had to send the couple to the priest about at a former parish - they had chosen a "country" song. I would not OK it without his approval. I warned him that it would be unacceptable, but he assumed I was being the snooty organist and approved the request. The couple finely got me the music the week prior to the wedding and I showed it to the rector, who started to scold ME, until I reminded him that I had specifically = warned him about the music. He looked at me with horror and said "I just CAN'T = let them do this, it's terrible!" He then asked me to inform the couple. I explained that I did not think it was appropriate for me to do that since = I had informed the couple that he would need to approve it, so I told him we would use the Vaughan Williams "The Call," and something else I can't remember and they could get the band at the reception to do the secular stuff. It all worked out that the couple was happy, but after all that, I just decided that it was much more clear and safe to be firm with the few couples that request pop or secular songs.   There are quite a few contemporary Christian songs that are fairly interesting musically and theologically sound to choose from and I always have those to show if I have to.     My partner and had our union blessed at St. Peter's a couple of years ago. A friend of mine who is a well-known young organist from NYC played. I picked out the hymns and service music, and I wanted the first movement of the Widor Vth for the prelude, which I knew he played, and the Finale from the Vierne VIth for the Recessional. He was working on the Vierne when I asked, but closer to the service he said it would not be ready, and could = he do the Widor Toccata? I said sure and did not worry about it. I trusted = him with everything, and it was great. I agree with the other poster, if someone is too demanding, I would conveniently have a prior engagement and let someone else suffer. I've had one experience with a wedding where the couple wanted all secular music, and the guy owned a recording studio = (Sonny & Cher, Lynard Skynard, etc,) and I knew that this was a situation where = we could not dictate rules, so I arranged for them to have a string quartet. They were happy and I did not have to endure months of the constantly changing "menu" of songs! BTW, the music was horrible at that wedding - they should have had that expensive ensemble playing what they did best, = but at least I could say I did not have anything to do with it!     +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   Randy Terry   Music Minister   The Episcopal Church of St. Peter   Redwood City, California      
(back) Subject: RE: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors] From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:26:16 +1200   >[snip] Sean claims that pipes are always tuned considerably sharp (A =3D 460-470 cps)... is that true? If so, how does that sit with playing a = duet.   The pipe chanter is not quite a semitone higher in pitch than A=3D440. If = the chanter is tuned somewhat flat, throwing the whole set of pipes out of = ideal tuning, you could more-or-less match A major, but only approximately. = Sadly, these days the chanter is higher in pitch than it used to be, and the = scale is less the traditional scale as some pipers (blast their cursed ways!) = want the chanter to sound more and more like the equally-tempered scale. This means that a lot excellent pipe music is beginning to sound rather strange as it's not written for a simple major scale.   Curious fact, too, that vocal and pipe music in the west of Scotland and = in the Isles have kept their own scales quite distinct for centuries.   >Any suggestions for a three-five minute offertory piece that isn't a = happy Reel or Jig?   You'd need probably a couple of Slow Airs to fill that time slot.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet From: "Millie & David Kenney" <kenn411@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:37:12 -0400   Jan -   For five or six years I played for a "Kirkin O' Th' Tartan" service in the = Presbyterian Church (USA) I served in eastern North Carolina. In a room = which seated about 310 comfortably, we typically had 350-400 people, = tartan-clad, waiting to hear the piper, who led the procession of the = Beadle, Choir, and Clergy. He would play "Highland Cathedral" once = through by himself, then I would hit a B-flat pedal point on the upbeat = measure and bear down, full organ, and we would play, generally once = through, the entire piece, with repeats, until the choir and clergy were = standing still. Highland pipes were used, and, occasionally they would be = a "smidgen" off-pitch, but the piece on the whole worked. The pipes were = loud, the organ was loud, AND they sounded great together. We = traditionally only used them for this one service ("Rally Day" or "Genesis = Sunday" in some churches). Later, we would play "Amazing Grace" - v. 1 = pipes only, v. 2 pipes and drum, v. 3 pipes, drum, and organ, v. 4 pipes   Do not be concerned about the pitch (440 vs. 460/470) - one time for an = offertory won't kill anyone. If you require 3-5 minutes, make sure you = give your piper a break with several organ interludes. Consider a drummer = (playing only a snare) also. The bagpipes, organ, and snare ensemble can = sound exceptionally good--yes, even indoors.   One other thing. . .on All Saints Sunday my former church (the same = Presbyterian church mentioned above) would remember the saints. Those who = had passed away that year were named, and the steeple bell was rung after = the name was spoken. One year, I had the piper wait to hear the bell one = time, then play a more meditative piece outside the sanctuary in an = adjacent courtyard. The head usher would cue the piper when all the names = were read, and the piper would begin walking away from the church, = continuing to play until the end of the song ("Blue Bells of Scotland" = rings in my head for some reason). The service would continue per the = bulletin, and the piper would quietly come back in a side door, through = the parlor, back into the sanctuary, while the pastor finished the prayer = of thanksgiving and remembrance.   After the sermon and closing hymn, the piper would lead the choir out of = the church to something like "Scotland the Brave" (instead of having an = organ postlude). Folks loved it--even with the pipes indoors, even if = they were not perfectly tuned to the organ--BUT only one to two times a = year. The pipes were consistently welcomed for many years; I hope they = still are. Of course the new organ may give the piper a run for his money = - go to Goulding & Wood's web site and look at Opus 42 (First Presbyterian = Church, Washington, North Carolina) - www.gouldingandwood.com - and you = will see why.   Best wishes to you, Jan, and to all who may be hesitant to play with a = piper. Rest assured, it is FUN!! And I have done it using a Moller (1939 = II-11) and a Fisk (1986 II-13, used for practicing) and enjoyed a great = sound either way.   Take care,   David Kenney    
(back) Subject: Re: Re: A crash course, please From: "Hell-Concerts@t-online.de" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 05:42:28 +0200   I agree with Steve. Felix 's very first recording, a private recording, more than a year before his real first CD, was recorded on a Minidisk recorder. We pressed it on a CD, and nobody, to whom we had presented it, never ever had thought that this was not a professional recording. I don't recall what mice it was. Have to ask.   Hans-Friedrich Hell   -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:53:47 +0200 Subject: Re: A crash course, please From: Stephen Best <stevebest@usadatanet.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org>   Charles's experience with minidisc recorders is evidently very different from mine. I have recorded any number of recitals (organ, voice, piano, ensemble) using a midrange Sharp minidisc recorder, and the results have been first rate. In fact, the recordings have been so good that they've been used on one of Upstate New York's largest public radio/classical music stations. Far from being "HORRIBLY disappointed," I am nothing my pleased, especially since I've heard professionally made recordings which haven't been nearly as good as my amateur attempts.   Steve Best in Utica, NY   Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug wrote:   >Do you want it to sound good, or do you want to not carry equipment >around with you? > >Minidisc players are only good for speech. If you record music, you'll >be HORRIBLY disappointed. >       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: The Pope and Sacred Music From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:09:38 EDT   There certainly is a great amount of coverage on the radio and TV = about Pope John Paul these days. Are you listening to the music? I've noticed that when news comes from the Vatican, Krakow, or any = church in Europe the music is sung in Latin by a good choir. When the news comes from a church in the USA, the music invariably = comes from a warbly singer crooning something which sounds like a pop tune into = a microphone. Has anyone else noticed this? What does this say about the state of Roman Catholic sacred music in Europe vs. the USA?   Justin Hartz  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors] From: "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:24:02 -0500   Hello List,   In his middle age my brother has become quite profiscent on the Highland Pipes. When he visits us here I can usually talk him into playing for my church service. To ammeliorate his volume and start-up squeeks, we have = had him in the enclosed Great Organ chamber while I play his introduction on = the Swell. Only after he has gotten the thing going do I open the Great shades =   and "reveal " him to the congregation. This seemed to work fine, except = that his name didn't appear in the bulletin, and people thought I had found a = new stop on the organ, and that it sounded remarkably realistic! In later performances he has brought his full regalia and played outside before the =   service, processing in to the back of the sanctuary as the crowd moved in and got settled.   A piper's music is always written in the key of A, but it is tuned so = sharp that it worked well with the organ in B flat. The range of the thing is quite restricted, and it can play no accidentals outside of its key. But there are several well-known tunes in the hymnal that will fit its range. = If the piper is willing to plug his drones, the performance will gain in two ways: it is much less noisy, and it allows for a wider range of harmonies = to be used by the accompanying instrument. A good piper will have "parade reeds" which work at high pressure (lung and elbow) and are LOUD! But he will also have, or can prepare a set of practice or indoor reeds which = will be much less screamy and will also require less blowing work on his part. The chanter (melody pipe) alone with a softer reed will not overwhelm in = any spacious worship building. If you have trumpets play in their upper register, the bagpipe won't offend anyone's ears. = Kip in MO             ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:00 PM Subject: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors]     For the past several months one of our parishoners, Sean Campbell, (if = that gives you a clue to his heritage) has asked to do an offertory with me. He =   plays the pipes, I know he's got a set of highland pipes, and may have = other (lower volume pipes). Sean claims that pipes are always tuned considerably =   sharp (A =3D 460-470 cps)... is that true? If so, how does that sit with playing a duet.   Any suggestions for a three-five minute offertory piece that isn't a happy =   Reel or Jig?   Sean's sister, Terri is a harpist and "pretty darn good soprano" (http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/4733/) She's sung solos several times. Their father is a deacon, and mother has tutored my daugter in English. (I know, TMI)      
(back) Subject: RE: A crash course, please From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 20:24:01 -0700   My experience with my Sony minidisk has been mixed. I have not had good luck using it without the automatic level control on, but with it on the quality is pretty good, sounds OK on the phones, but quite good played = back on my good stereo.   I have a friend who uses one to record organ and choral music and understands how it works better than I and I made a CD one year of my = women doing the Faure "Messe Basse," and some other stuff, and it was REALLY = good, other than our slight imperfections. I still enjoy listening to that - = that recording helped my confidence more than anything because I am never = really happy with my playing and I used to worry about the way the choir sounded, but hearing it recorded down in the room was an eye-opener for me AND for = my choir. We all felt really good!   I have two fairly expensive mics with mine and if I place the equipment = down in the room the result is always good, but I don't usually do that because of the stairs. My organ's control system has record/playback built-in if you use a host PC, and I guess I need to go to the trouble to figure that out!   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Best     Charles's experience with minidisc recorders is evidently very different from mine. I have recorded any number of recitals (organ, voice, piano, ensemble) using a midrange Sharp minidisc recorder, and the results have been first rate. In fact, the recordings have been so good that they've been used on one of Upstate New York's largest public radio/classical music stations. Far from being "HORRIBLY disappointed," I am nothing my pleased, especially since I've heard professionally made recordings which haven't been nearly as good as my amateur attempts.   Steve Best in Utica, NY   Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug wrote:   >Do you want it to sound good, or do you want to not carry equipment >around with you? > >Minidisc players are only good for speech. If you record music, you'll >be HORRIBLY disappointed. >            
(back) Subject: RE: Tuning Pipes and Keys for a duet [was Re: Bagpipes indoors] From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:48:07 +1200   >In later performances he has brought his full regalia   What meaneth thou by "full regalia"?   >A piper's music is always written in the key of A, but it is tuned so = sharp   that it worked well with the organ in B flat.   Not really true, as written pipe music does not give a key signature at = all. The correct pipe scale can approximate G, A or D major, or B, E or A = minor, but it is only approximation.   >The range of the thing is quite restricted,   Yes, just nine notes from bottom G to high A, though bottom is flatter = than top G.   >and it can play no accidentals outside of its key.   Again, not quite true, as there is a G flat used in piobaireachd which is quite distinct from the usual F (which is sharper than F natural). They can't be counted as accidentals, but there are two ways of playing C, one being very slightly flatter than the other, and two ways of playing high = A, one very slightly sharper than the other.   >But there are several well-known tunes in the hymnal that will fit its range. = If   the piper is willing to plug his drones   No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That'd make a mockery of the pipes. You could just as well ask a pianist to play nothing below MiddleC as the low strings interfere with organ tone. No pianist would agree.   A good piper will have "parade reeds" which work at high pressure (lung and elbow) and are LOUD! But he will also have, or can prepare a set of practice or indoor reeds which = will be much less screamy and will also require less blowing work on his part. The chanter (melody pipe) alone with a softer reed will not overwhelm in = any   spacious worship building.   I've never heard of this being done, and it would be very difficult indeed as the drone reeds would also need to be changed, and then the tone of the entire instrument would be changed. Good pipe reeds never scream, indoors = or outdoors and a piper will find reeds appropriate for his (or her) = particular instrument. Your suggestion would be rather like dropping the wind = pressure on a rank of organ pipes and retuning it without revoicing it: just not practicable at all.   If you like the pipes in church, why use the organ with them at all? The pipes do not need an accompanying instrument.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: The Pope and Sacred Music From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:50:29 -0700 (PDT)   They must choose bad places to record the catholic churches in the USA. I = know many, MANY catholic churches that do excellent music.     Justinhartz@aol.com wrote: There certainly is a great amount of coverage on the radio and TV = about Pope John Paul these days. Are you listening to the music? I've noticed that when news comes from the Vatican, Krakow, or any = church in Europe the music is sung in Latin by a good choir. When the news comes from a church in the USA, the music invariably = comes from a warbly singer crooning something which sounds like a pop tune = into a microphone. Has anyone else noticed this? What does this say about the state of Roman Catholic sacred music in = Europe vs. the USA? Justin Hartz     Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Timing is everything ... [was RE: Tuning Pipes ...] From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 13:23:51 +0800   OK, more like one minute-thrity. I guess I've never actually timed my offer= tories which are usually an unfamiliar hymntune from a hymnal other than ou= r standard one. I just ran through THAXTED in 1:47, yesterday's offertory.   Looking back through my notes, Sean had suggested "Hebridean Air" (AKA Bune= ssan or "Morning has Broken") and/or "Gaelic Air" (Perhaps: "Jesus Calls Us= Here to Meet Him.")=20   ----- Original Message ----- From: TheShieling <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>   > > Any suggestions for a three-five minute offertory piece that isn't a ha= ppy > Reel or Jig? >=20 > You'd need probably a couple of Slow Airs to fill that time slot. >=20 > Ross   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Wedding fees From: "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 01:53:18 -0500   > Subject: Re: Wedding fees > From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com>   > ...Finally, I said, very politely, "Madam, you have, presumably, already had > your wedding. Why don't you have a seat over there and let your daughter have > hers". After she left in a huff, the bride gave me a big hug, and proceeded to > tell me exactly what SHE wanted!...   WOW! Way to go...you're my new hero! I am so glad that sweet bride got to have her own wedding. Reminds me of the Frasier episode where he decided to give Daphne "the gift of Frasier," and then proceeded to plan what really was *HIS* dream wedding.   Sound familiar?   Overall I've had good ones but I sometimes refer to them as "Her Holiness the Mother."   --Richard    
(back) Subject: Change of email address. From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:40:24 +0800   Please note my change of email address to the following: robertelms@westnet.com.au After 82 emails for pornographic sites in three days I have had enough and =   the only solution is to close the offending email address. I eill krep it open for another week or so in order to give everyone a chnace to change. However the new address mail box is open now and can be used. Thank you JR (Bob) Elms 17827       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 1/04/2005