PipeChat Digest #5260 - Wednesday, April 6, 2005
 
Re: Repetative Redundency Again [Re: The Pope and Sacred Music]
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
RE: The History of Organs in NYC
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Latry in Boston Friday
  by "Mark Nelson" <mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com>
Catholic hymns
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5259 - 04/06/05
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: Catholic hymns
  by <pepehomer@aol.com>
Re: The Pope and Sacred Music
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Repetative Redundency Again [Re: The Pope and Sacred Music]
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Repetative Redundency Again [Re: The Pope and Sacred Music] From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:24:55 +0800   It's not the priest who chooses the hymns. They are chosen by a lady who = was given the job, not a musician. I suggested once that they have Now thank = we all our God, and her reply was that the people would not know it. I said that I knew they did know it as the previous priest used to use it. She agreed reluctantly and we sang it. The congregation came to life and = really SANG. Then - back to City of God, Here I am Lord and the same old dozen!! = I have no input. It is not my church. I normally play in a Uniting (ex Methodist) Church in the same city where the fare is still largely traditional and we have a SATB choir singing traditional anthems. The Mass = I play for is Saturday 6 p.m. The Catholic congregation is large for our = city, total probably in the order of 1000+ over three masses, about 250 = attending the one I play for. Bob E. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: Repetative Redundency Again [Re: The Pope and Sacred Music]     Bob,   I can't belive that you don't have more input to the hymn selections. No doubt you'd be met by resistance from the clergyman who is doleing this stuff out, but, with support from the congregation, I think you can make a =   difference. Or is this a lost cause to the Eddie Van Halen wanna bes?         -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.3 - Release Date: 5/04/2005    
(back) Subject: RE: The History of Organs in NYC From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:51:37 +1200   >As many of you already know, I have made a valiant and hopefully appreciated attempt to document the organs in NYC for inclusion on the = NYC AGO website.=A0   I presume you have the book "Organ Building in New York City: = 1700-1900", by John Ogasapian??   Ross    
(back) Subject: Latry in Boston Friday From: "Mark Nelson" <mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:04:50 -0400   This Friday, April 8th, at 8 PM, Holy Cross Cathedral, Boston   FREE PARKING(First come, first serve...)   The Boston Medical Center has very graciously agreed to let us use their parking lot on the corner of Harrison Ave. and East Brookline St. for parking in connection with Olivier Latry's recital at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross on Friday night. Parking will be available from 7 PM - 10:30 PM. The lot holds 125 cars, we recommend getting there on the early side to get a spot in time!   CATHEDRAL OF THE HOLY CROSS (Roman Catholic) 1400 Washington Street, Boston Directions Suggested donation $20   E. & G.G. Hook & Hastings Organ Opus 801, 1875   Nicolas S=C9JEAN : No=EBl suisse C=E9sar FRANCK : 2=E8me Choral, en Si mineur Eug=E8ne GIGOUT : Scherzo Louis VIERNE : Final de la 2=E8me Symphonie   Jean LANGLAIS : Th=E8me et variations Maurice DURUFL=C9 : Scherzo Olivier MESSIAEN : Joie et clart=E9 des Corps Glorieux Thierry ESCAICH : Deux po=E8mes : Eaux natales & Vers l'esp=E9rance Olivier LATRY : Improvisation   www.bostonago.com/events.html  
(back) Subject: Catholic hymns From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:06:55 -0400   I don't know why, but it always astounds me that catholics seem to love=20=   How Great Thou Art. I simply can't fathom how it fits in a liturgical=20=   service. Maybe as a communion medication, OK, but as a processional=20 (or recessional)? I'm not saying it's a bad piece; I was raised=20 presbyterian so I grew up with it. In any event, it gets requested at=20=   funerals from time to time, and they always raise the roof singing it. =20=   More power to them. Just my 2=A2. David Baker   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Bob Elms wrote:   I am playing for the local Catholic Church's Saturday evening mass to be held this Saturday. I have just been given the hymn numbers:   Alleluia No.1 (Don Fishel) Jesus you are bread for us (Christopher Walker) We remember how you loved us (Mary Haugen) How Great Thou art. (Stuart Hine)    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5259 - 04/06/05 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:09:18 -0400   I can't agree entirely. Theodore Marier's hymnal, "Hymns, Psalms and Spiritual Songs", is quite excellent. The first edition is out of print now, but a new edition is in preparation by John Dunn, Marier's worthy successor at St. Paul's RC, Cambridge, MA.   On Apr 6, 2005, at 6:01 AM, PipeChat wrote:   > > Subject: Re: The Pope and Sacred Music > From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> > Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 23:24:38 -0400 > > You know, the true weapons of mass destruction are the hymnals that > were > published after Vatican II, eh? > > - WG    
(back) Subject: Re: Catholic hymns From: <pepehomer@aol.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 10:16:10 -0400   I just think that EVERY denomination loves that song. Being a traditional = Lutheran church, I stay far away from anything "contemporary" but throw in = How Great Thou Art every three months or so, and WOW do they sing. I'm = not against it either - hey, whatever works! Justin Karch Organist, Holy Trinity LCMS Rome, GA -----Original Message----- From: David Baker <dgb137@mac.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:06:55 -0400 Subject: Catholic hymns     I don't know why, but it always astounds me that catholics seem to love = How Great Thou Art. I simply can't fathom how it fits in a liturgical = service. Maybe as a communion medication, OK, but as a processional (or = recessional)? I'm not saying it's a bad piece; I was raised presbyterian = so I grew up with it. In any event, it gets requested at funerals from = time to time, and they always raise the roof singing it. More power to = them. Just my 2=A2. David Baker  
(back) Subject: Re: The Pope and Sacred Music From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:59:57 EDT   Some good points have been made here about the state of RC music, but I = have a question. Having many members of my extended family who are Catholic, and having = played for a RC church in my younger days, as well as being asked to fill in when = I go to visit my relatives, I don't understand the whole cantor/song leader crooning into the microphone thing. Can someone please explain the = necessity of a warbly soloist belting out a hymn like "Holy God We Praise Thy Name" or = some other hymn that people know? I understand a songleader needing to do it = on some of the unsingable tunes that populate the missalettes, that are = unknown outside the RC realm.   Many large evangelical churches (mine included) use a songleader as a conductor of the congregation on the singing of hymns, but no microphone = is involved and I think it is a tradition that stems from the old revival/campmeeting days. The songleader is more of a cheerleader getting people involved, = but truthfully, most people don't watch as they are following the words and = music in the hymnal (as at my church) or on a screen.   I understand the need of a cantor to sing the Psalm verses and Alleluia verses when no choir is present, but will someone please explain to me the = NEED of a songleader warbling away into a mic on the hymns? To me it seems = pointless and makes the congregation want to NOT sing. At my grandparent's church = in Ft. Lauderdale, the "Music Director" (that's her title--I don't know why, = since there is NO music program, no choir, no youth/children's choir, no = handbells, no instrumentalists, etc.--just her and the "organist", who is a bad = lounge piano player) play and sing everything as if it's a cheesy Las Vegas = lounge act. She milks the phrases of every hymn to the point that they're unsingable = and she literally eats the microphone. The congregation just sits there and listens, even on hymns/songs that are Catholic favorites. Don't get me = started on the organist's playing, because if one could actually sing with his accompaniments it would be a miracle--the pumping of the Rodgers' swell = pedals and the jacked up trems would give any theatre organ a run for it's money! I have =   already announced that when either of my grandparents die, I will handle = all the music, those two will NOT have any part because the music is going to be = good and the congregation is going to sing.   A couple of years ago my mother and I both flew to visit my grandparents = to celebrate my Grandfather's birthday, which just happened to fall on = Mother's Day weekend. I sucked it up and went to church with them all, being the = dutiful and doting grandson that I am LOL, and was horrified at the music. During =   communion, the musical dog and pony show proceeded to launch into a soul-stirring rendition of "MOTHER". "M is for the many things...etc." I = looked over at my mother who was about ready to fall over laughing, she then punched me = in the leg and said in that under the breath tone that only a mother can do "do...not....say...a...word...." Of course, with my big mouth, I just = blurted it out anyway...I said, "This is completely inappropriate for a church service, = let alone for the communion service." Well, at that point she just burst out laughing. Not only was it just a tacky song, it was poorly done.   I've seen some really tacky things in Protestant churches, so it's not a = bash against Catholics, but the Catholics seem to take the cake with the = crooning songleaders and microphones. Praise and Worship music uses microphones = but the worship leader is usually feeding the words to the = congregation--lining out the song, if you will. So the concept is a totally different take on the theme, WHEN it's done right.   Please explain because I can't figure it out.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Repetative Redundency Again [Re: The Pope and Sacred Music] From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:01:02 +0800   That'd be about the time I'd record the fifteen tunes to cassette with a po= or quality microphone on cheap tape and as lifeless as possible, hand it to= the priest and let him choose to play the tape or remove (motivate) the pr= oblem to expand the repetoir.   Geeze! I guess we all have our own thorns in our sides: My problem is a pia= nist who insists on doing all the intros (not the ones marked), doesn't lis= ten to direction during rehearsal and ploughs on with his own agenda. I may= have to get "good 'n loud" again on the hymntroductions during service, bu= t it does get disruptive.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>   > It's not the priest who chooses the hymns. They are chosen by a=20 > lady who was given the job, not a musician. I suggested once that=20 > they have Now thank we all our God, and her reply was that the=20 > people would not know it. I said that I knew they did know it as=20 > the previous priest used to use it. She agreed reluctantly and we=20 > sang it. The congregation came to life and really SANG. Then - back=20 > to City of God, Here I am Lord and the same old dozen!! I have no=20 > input. It is not my church. I normally play in a Uniting (ex=20 > Methodist) Church in the same city where the fare is still largely=20 > traditional and we have a SATB choir singing traditional anthems.=20 > The Mass I play for is Saturday 6 p.m. The Catholic congregation is=20 > large for our city, total probably in the order of 1000+ over three=20 > masses, about 250 attending the one I play for. > Bob E.   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm