PipeChat Digest #5281 - Wednesday, April 20, 2005
 
Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting
  by <Seedlac@aol.com>
Re: off topic - what is the most progressive denomination?
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
organ duets
  by "Millie & David Kenney" <kenn411@bellsouth.net>
Re: St. Patrick's Kilgen
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Flat pedal boards
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
ORGANLive, was Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting
  by "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@charter.net>
Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: War March of the Priests (was: New pope)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Flat pedal boards
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Flash Harry
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Flat pedal boards
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Off-topics
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: Flat pedal boards
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: Pedalboard ergonomics & horseshoe keydesks
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Flat pedal boards
  by "Lin Yangchen" <yangchen@raffles.org>
Re: off topic - what is the most progressive denomination?
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Pedalboard ergonomics & horseshoe keydesks
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: off topic - what is the most progressive denomination?
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Off-topics
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting From: <Seedlac@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 05:35:31 EDT   Yes, back in the 90s, while working with a Washington, DC area organ = company, we decided to fully underwrite the Pipedream program on WETA Public radio. =   One Monday morning, about a year later, we received several phone calls = from out organ customers asking why we had stopped underwriting the program. Being perplexed I contacted the sales rep who handled our contract and was told = that the programming producer had decided that Pipedreams time slot was not = providing enough new pledges during their begathon, so he decided to drop the = program before the contract had run out. Of course they were more than willing to = have us underwrite another program. Being less than polite I told the sales = person that their tactics and breach of contract was less than professional and demanded our money to be returned. They replaced Pipedreams with a = preprogrammed off-the-shelf classical MUZAK.   In recent weeks WETA has shifted to an all talk format. They are merely repeating the programs already aired by another public radio station in DC = and nearby Baltimore. The era of the PUBLIC in Public radio is over. They = expect the Public to be silent in their demands and simply be a funding source. = Public radio and television has become another corporate business. We the public = need to look elsewhere for our classical music needs.   Steve Baltimore  
(back) Subject: Re: off topic - what is the most progressive denomination? From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 03:18:12 -0700 (PDT)   In my opinion I would say Unitarian Universalists, followed by the Cong-UCC, American Baptists, then = ECUSA to an extent       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:02:03 EDT   Yep. WETA took it off even though it was fully sponsored locally and ran = very late on Sunday night--this shortly after an AGO contingent had gone over = to help with the most recent begathon.   More recently WETA has dropped most daytime music program for more talk. I =   have basically dropped WETA except for the Sabbath sojourn to a little = town in Minnesota. WGMS, which is owned by Bonneville, still carries Music and the =   Spoken Word from "the crossroads of the West" on Sundays at 7 a.m.   Doppelganger Schadenfreude Washington, DC    
(back) Subject: organ duets From: "Millie & David Kenney" <kenn411@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 8:12:52 -0400   Gayle -   How about getting started with the transcriptions of Elizabeth and Raymond = Chenault? Their "Stars and Stripes Forever" is a lot of fun; I have = played it in concert with a friend, and the crowd loved it!!   Or how about another husband and wife team - Colin Andrews and Janette = Fishell? Their duet playing is always well-received; I am uncertain = whether their transcriptions are published. Contact Janette through East = Carolina University or St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Greenville, North = Carolina (just installed a large Fisk in the sanctuary).   Hope this helps,   David Kenney          
(back) Subject: Re: St. Patrick's Kilgen From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:13:00 EDT   Randy Terry wrote: You go, Monty! I only have a recording of the St. Patricks' organs, and that made before the final additions/changes with the creation of the Nave division and newer big reed.       The Nave division was the former "Echo" division, but is now a complete chorus including a large hooded trumpet, as well as the former Echo stops. = There is some thickness to the organ, but not any tubbiness. It's just the = typical beefiness of the era in which is was built, but also the huge scales that = are needed to fill a room the size of the cathedral. I played there about a = year and a half ago and was amazed that the organ was not tubby, but actually = rather rich and able to get some brilliance.   There are two CD's that have been released of the organ since it's been redone--Donald Dumler, the Principal Organist, has recorded one on Gothic = and Stanley Cox, the Associate Organist, has recorded one on JAV. Both are = fantastic recordings and really show off what the organ can do. Stan's CD has some really great literature on it, including a Prelude and Fugue by Peter = Stoltzfus, as well as a tribute to the 9/11 victims.     Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Flat pedal boards From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:19:42 -0400   Dear List....   Once in a while, when I get to a nice old tracker, I really enjoy playing on the flat pedal board. There's something about the feel of the spacing of the keys that is comfortable. Of course, I'm sure that the flat pedal board places some limits on what sort of pedaling you can do... I'd be curious to know how the list members would describe the practical differences between the AGO and flat style, aside from the obvious (such as compass).   - Nate; one who prefers a closed and rejecting Church, rather than an open and affirming one    
(back) Subject: ORGANLive, was Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@charter.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:42:13 -0500   Lack of diversity on radio broadcasts is the main reason I feel certain that satellite and Internet audio is ready to take its place, as soon as enough hardware is out there, and as soon as the government stops bowing to radio broadcasters and lets these alternate forms shine. That's the main reason ORGANLive exists. Where on the radio would you find good organ music anytime you wanted?   We're in the middle of our own begathon right now, trying to secure funding for an entire year so we don't have to beg for a long time to come. Fortunately, our expenses are much less than a broadcast station. (The St. Louis NPR station was trying to raise $40,000 in one hour last week. Imagine what most of us could do with that kind of money to toss around.) Not to deflect any attention from Pipedreams, an excellent show that I enjoy listening to, but if you want to support music of the organ in a format where your hard-earned dollars go much farther, tune into ORGANLive, and if you like what you hear, become a sponsor. Just like public radio, we have lots of levels, but ours start at $1, and you can see exactly where your money is going.   Just an early morning suggestion. Brent Johnson ORGANLive - Music of the organ on demand http://www.organlive.com     Seedlac@aol.com wrote:   > >In recent weeks WETA has shifted to an all talk format. They are merely >repeating the programs already aired by another public radio station in = DC and >nearby Baltimore. The era of the PUBLIC in Public radio is over. They = expect the >Public to be silent in their demands and simply be a funding source. = Public >radio and television has become another corporate business. We the public = need >to look elsewhere for our classical music needs. > >Steve >Baltimore > > > > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Assistance Needed with Pipedreams underwriting From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:42:27 -0700   I guess there is something to be said for the Hudson Valley... we have both WAMC -a varied format Public radio network, and WMHT - classical music (WITH pipedreams on sunday evenings!) On the weekends they both keep me informed and entertained. During the week, great company in the car and at work.   I feel proud to support both and not have to be subjected to the commercial crud and clutter that dominates the rest of radio.   and for just classical Muzak we have a repeater for WQXR from NYC here as = well!   John V --  
(back) Subject: Re: War March of the Priests (was: New pope) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:10:53 -0500   It's been done here too. I well remember the 1997 General Convention of = the Episcopal Church, at which Wanamakers / St. Clement's Philadelphia = organist Peter Conte was playing, that "War March of the Priests" was the voluntary as all 100 bishops of the Episcopal Church processed out at the end of the Eucharist. Our bishop had a good chuckle, but I think it was lost on most of them.   John   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:26 AM Subject: War March of the Priests (was: New pope)     > Hello, > > Sorry John! > > That's been done at York Minster, here in the UK, when > the liberal Bishop of Durham, Dr David Jenkins was > consecrated bishop at York. > > He had a conservative, fundamentalist "welcoming > party" waiting for him outside the great West door!! > > To qoute John Scott-Whitely, the organist on the day, > "Well, it seemed to be the obvious thing to play!" > > A few days later, the Minster was struck by lighting, > the South transept destroyed by fire and the organ > damaged!!      
(back) Subject: Re: Flat pedal boards From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT)   I think the flat pedal boards are much better. Several good builders = today use flat pedal boards (not just old trackers!) Ago pedal boards = force you to use heels, while it is possible to play without them on flat. = My first positive experience with baroque music was on Arp Schnitger = organs in Germany. Not only was it easy to play, but the short octave = fascinated me. My second great experience with all music was the Wolff = organ in Kansas City. The Vierne 6th Symphony, Final, the scales were = played effortlessly, which is not an easy task on many organs. When I was = 11, I was playing for a church with an organ from 1902, and I liked the = pedal board much better. I suppose it is all a matter of personal taste. I like both, prefer flat.             Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Flash Harry From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:16:44 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   :)   LightNing it was!   Of course, had Sir Malcolm Seargent been there playing the organ when York Minster was struck, it would have had the perfect lightning conductor.   Harry Potter with lights?   Wouldn't that be a "Flash Harry?"   That's what Tommy Beecham called Malcolm Seargent, but of course, he also looked down at the grave of Parry (?) which states, "Here lies a fine musician and organist."   Beecham turned, and replied, "How did they get them both in the same grave?"   Beecham hated the organ and Bach in equal measure, apparently.   Off-topic? Not a bit! Malcolm Seargent was a superb organist.     Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- TheShieling <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > >A few days later, the Minster was struck by > lighting, > > That would be "lightning", Colin, otherwise you > conjure up pictures of > lethal laser and neon Harry Potter weapons charging > round destroying the > cathedral.... :-)     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Flat pedal boards From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:25:53 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   A curious thing, but I find old Netherlands flat pedal-boards easier to play than AGO pedal-boards, with their wider spacing than the typical RCO ones I am used to.   I'm all for that rejecting church Nate!   I'd make a start with most of the clergy.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK     --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Dear List.... > > Once in a while, when I get to a nice old > tracker, I really enjoy > playing on the flat pedal board. There's something > about the feel of > the spacing of the keys that is comfortable. > > - Nate; one who prefers a closed and rejecting > Church, rather than > an open and affirming one >   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Off-topics From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:34:17 -0500   Unfortunately, you've prompted another off-topic e-mail. I've never seen = the spelling "Pluease" before. Please (or should I say pluease) explain. Does = it rhyme with "Louise"? Does it have a special, deeper meaning than that of = its better-known relative?   Robert Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Kersey <rkersey@tds.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:41 PM Subject: Off-topics     Pluease! Pluease stop! > If this is going to be an anything goes list with no moderation and no rules, why don't we just label it as such ? > Disgustedly, > Roy Kersey      
(back) Subject: Re: Flat pedal boards From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:55:21 -0400   At 09:25 AM 2005-04-20, you wrote: >Hello, > >A curious thing, but I find old Netherlands flat >pedal-boards easier to play than AGO pedal-boards, >with their wider spacing than the typical RCO ones I >am used to. > >I'm all for that rejecting church Nate! > >I'd make a start with most of the clergy. > >Regards, > >Colin MItchell UK   Hi,   I personally do not like the flat pedalboard, as my legs do not stretch, they only move.   I suppose if you fancy all things historical, have stretchable limbs, play =   baroque music with toes, then these things would be just the ticket.   I however do not mind the BDO (the concave design). In some ways better than the RCO/AGO design, in that the spacing doesn't change along the pedals themselves.   Arie V. (who has an opinion on just about everything)      
(back) Subject: Re: Pedalboard ergonomics & horseshoe keydesks From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:18:53 EDT   Dear PipeChatters: This topic has been covered several times a year on these discussion boards since the internet first appeared, and there seem to be two very = entrenched camps. Discussion reached a fever pitch three years ago, when it was discovered that people were still writing organ music after 1900, and that = the average human in the 21st century is nearly an eight of an inch taller than in = 1680. The modern radiating and concave pedal clavier was developed about a century ago in order to more directly address the way the human body is constructed and the way its joints move. The flat, parallel pedalboard is = preferred almost universally by those whose legs are one meter apart and who were = born without ankles, yet one might find that playing with agility at the = extremes of the pedalboard without undue and unbalanced changes in posture is facilitated = by the incorporation of the curved pedalboard. A wonderful compromise, for those who cannot stand purity in either = camp (modern AGO versus 17-note converging and convex) is a concave and = parallel configuration, in which the ankles, hips, and knees are not subjected to = undue stress, but the keys are equidistant and various techniques can be used. = For purists who were taught that accidentals can only be played with the = heels, I can be of no assistance. Speaking of ergonomics: we discarded the horseshoe configuration of = the cinema organ for reasons of class and association, but it is a very = practical way to design a console, particularly for heavy service playing. We wrap = the drawknobs around ourselves, but have given up on the horseshoe console. Something to think about, even if it hurts.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/   ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Flat pedal boards From: "Lin Yangchen" <yangchen@raffles.org> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:36:56 -0700 (PDT)   Hello Scott and pipechatters,   I'm confused by the sentence 'AGO pedal boards force...heels, = while...flat.' Could you elaborate?   I have had the privilege to try out some well-respected organs like the = Barker/C-C in St. Augustin Paris, the Sauer in Berliner Dom and the = Walcker in Votivkirche Wien, all of which have flat pedal boards. In my = case, playing on a flat board gives a nice psychological boost (which = makes the music ever so slightly better) because I tend to associate flat = pedalboards with legendary instruments. Technically, the flat boards = certainly felt different, but not better or worse, than the concave = radiating ones. Perhaps I don't practise enough to get acccustomed to any = one kind of board!   I don't think pedalboard geometry per se should be a cause for worry for a = good organist, as organists have to adjust to many other inconsistencies = like the height of the bench or the geometric relationship between the = pedals and manuals and the radically different layouts of manual and stop = jambs etc etc etc... and this is all part of the fun.   Some people have even expressed concern about the practical difficulties = of switching between the AGO, BDO and RCO boards, all of which are concave = radiating. I have played all of them and the music's fine.   Imagine what the world would be like if all organs were one assembly-line = model, or if all the Beethoven symphonies in the world were conducted only = by Gardiner (using period instruments and period tempos) or only by = Karajan (who used 8 horns in the 5th Symphony)!   Yangchen Lin   Singapore http://sps.nus.edu.sg/~linyangc/   --- Scott A Montgomery <montre1978@yahoo.com> wrote:   From: Scott A Montgomery <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: Flat pedal boards   I think the flat pedal boards are much better. Several good builders = today use flat pedal boards (not just old trackers!) Ago pedal boards = force you to use heels, while it is possible to play without them on flat. = My first positive experience with baroque music was on Arp Schnitger = organs in Germany. Not only was it easy to play, but the short octave = fascinated me. My second great experience with all music was the Wolff = organ in Kansas City. The Vierne 6th Symphony, Final, the scales were = played effortlessly, which is not an easy task on many organs. When I was = 11, I was playing for a church with an organ from 1902, and I liked the = pedal board much better. I suppose it is all a matter of personal taste. I like both, prefer flat.             Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Re: off topic - what is the most progressive denomination? From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:25:12 EDT     Randy wrote:   "The Church of England was not there when the Episcopal Church was born"   That's right. Apostolic succession was passed by SCOTTISH Bishops, not English ones. And isn't it interesting that the Scottish Episcopal Church = has entered the fray on the progressive side.   BH Boston            
(back) Subject: Re: Pedalboard ergonomics & horseshoe keydesks From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:44:00 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Only an 1/8th of an inch?   I don't know which bits Sebastian has been measuring, but even I bang my little head on Tudor doorways, and I'm only 5ft 7" tall.   Regarding horseshoe consoles, I used to play on a Hill, Norman & Beard organ with the most ergonomically wonderful horseshoe console with tabs. I suspect that the nove away from such consoles may well have been prompted by the move towards the neo-baroque and the use of mechanical action. However, as the stop mechanism has absolutely no bearing on the art of key touch, perhaps we should always stipulate mechanical action and electric stop-tabs, with a horseshoe console design.   One feature of stop-tabs which I found extremely useful in service accompaniment, was the H,N & B stop-tab canceller, which was a little bit like having a second set of pistons; the technique being to hold down certain tabs as required, and cancel the rest with a free finger. There is something really neat about a quick double dab of canceller bar and the Tuba tab, which brings the instant solo reed as quickly as a thumb piston would.   Because the hands are in the right place at the right time, it is very much more convenient than a piston no.0 mounted between the keyboards, and actually a whole lot quicker due to economy of motion.   I'm all for tabs, horseshoe consoles and MECHANICAL KEY/PEDAL ACTION!   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK (On topic!!!!)   PS: I didn't know Sebastian knew my mother!   --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: > the average > human in the 21st century is nearly an eight of an > inch taller than in 1680.   >.....those whose legs are one meter > apart and who were born > without ankles.....   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: off topic - what is the most progressive denomination? From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:51:08 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I'll be brief.   The problem the Anglican Church faces is one of trying to hold together a world-wide communion, which includes Africans in the middle of a huge AIDS crisis.   The Scottish Episcopalians do not have that worry.   Regards,   Colin MItchell UK     --- DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote: > > Randy wrote: > > "The Church of England was not there when the > Episcopal Church was born" > ......isn't it interesting that the > Scottish Episcopal Church has > entered the fray on the progressive side.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Off-topics From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:56:11 EDT   Dear Roy and List,   I just want to say that the point--however "pointedly" made--is well = taken. Speaking only for myself, I would agree that we should be more rigorous = about labeling truly off-topic posts as such and limiting such posts to a = minimum. I myself have been guilty of participating in off-topic conversations that = some list members might not want to unwittingly invite into their personal "in-box". However, in the couple of years I have belonged to this list, it = has been my experience that our moderators/listowners have been very good about = keeping things orderly and civil. When things get out of hand, they let us know.   I would agree that this list is a little more "laid back" than some other lists, and not just organ lists. It's one of the things I like about it. = We seem to be human beings who love organs, not just myopic specialists running = stats on the content of pipechat digests. There's a human dimension to most pipechat posts, and it's one of the reasons I like it here. Now, from what = I can gather experientially about this list, a few members are organbuilders, a = few are concert organists, a few are clergypersons, some are amateur enthusiasts, = and a great majority seem to be church organists, working in a variety of denominations. So I have to ask myself "what might be 'on topic' for this = list?". Sometimes it's repertoire and registration, or technical questions about organbuilding and maintenance. Sometimes it's fingering/pedalling = concerns. Sometimes it's a recital review or a listmember's review of a service she or he = attended, or a recital he or she played, or the announcement of an upcoming event. Sometimes, it's professional concerns, and sometimes that's = denomination-specific. To some of us, who's going to be Pope or who's slinging mud at whom in the =   Anglican Communion or what got discussed at the last American Baptist or = PCUSA or ELCA confab is professionally relevant. When it's not, our dear = moderators let us know. The fact that "professional concerns" topics are tolerated on = this list makes it a list for professionals and amateurs alike.   Again, I can only speak for myself. I'll try harder to keep my posts = on-topic or label them otherwise, and submit to the discipline of the listowners = for guidance.   pax, Bill H. Boston