PipeChat Digest #5168 - Monday, February 21, 2005
 
RE: sunrise services
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: sunrise services
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: sunrise services - doing things OUR way
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: Organ Voluntaries...how do you plan yours?
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Social Clubs and Heresies
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
Re: Planning Organ Voluntaries
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
Re: Organ Voluntaries
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
Organ Voluntaries...how do you plan yours?
  by "Millie & David Kenney" <kenn411@bellsouth.net>
Stainer (was Organ Voluntaries)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Getting the right new pastor
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Lent 2: First United Lutheran
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: sunrise services
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Easter sunrise and vigil, too!
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: sunrise services - doing things OUR way
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Getting the right new pastor
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: sunrise services
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Easter sunrise and vigil, too!
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Lent 2: First United Lutheran
  by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com>
Re: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies
  by "Hell-Concerts@t-online.de" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
RE: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies
  by "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: sunrise services From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:21:54 -0000   I certainly have got the gist of this. But what puzzles me is how I've = been a member of this group for several years now, and this peculiarity has = never been mentioned until now. What other liturgical oddities have you = Americans got up your sleeves that you haven't mentioned yet?   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Alan Freed Sent: 20 February 2005 18:24 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: sunrise services   On 2/20/05 9:42 PM, "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote:   > what is a "sunrise service"? I assume it must be a service held at sunrise, > but when, and why?   By now, I think you've got the gist of it. It must be a terribly = American thing. They used to hold one on the observation deck of the Empire = State Building. I think a few appropriate retirements took care of THAT!   Alan     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: RE: sunrise services From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:20:35 +0800   Has anyone mentioned electric guitars, digital drums, and organ sacrifices = or is all that still hush-hush?     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>   >=20 > I certainly have got the gist of this. But what puzzles me is how I've be= en > a member of this group for several years now, and this peculiarity has ne= ver > been mentioned until now. What other liturgical oddities have you America= ns > got up your sleeves that you haven't mentioned yet? >=20 > Will Light > Coventry UK   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: sunrise services - doing things OUR way From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:46:31 -0000   Will,   It must be a little along the lines of May Morning at Magdalen http://www.magd.ox.ac.uk/history/cc_hymnus.shtml   I did have a 'problem' with Saturday evening before Easter Day, last year. =   It was somewhat 'up-beat'. I queried this with the Rector -Jesus being in Hell for 3 days and not rising before Easter Day itself.   I received a 'Non-answer'   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman, starved of theological replies]   The English may not like music, but they absolutely love the noise it = makes. Sir Thomas Beecham   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:42 PM Subject: RE: sunrise services     > Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "sunrise service"? I assume it must = be > a > service held at sunrise, but when, and why? > > Will Light > Coventry UK    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Voluntaries...how do you plan yours? From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:41:25 -0500     On Feb 20, 2005, at 11:37 PM, Desiree' wrote:   > For March, Im doing Marches and Arias....   For your collection of arias, may I suggest http://www.evensongmusic.net/runyonorgan.html ?   No doubt your list also includes Flor Peters' and the one from Vierne's Sixth Symphony.   Randy Runyon    
(back) Subject: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:49:51 -0500   From Randy: "Speaking of recycling in sermons, for the third year in a row my homiletically-challenged pastor is reading canned sermons for the Wednesday Lenten services. Too dumb to write his own."   If it's any comfort, your pastor and congregation came up on my congregation's Prayer Partners list a few weeks ago. I hope our good = people prayed long and hard. Sounds like your folks need all the help they can = get.   I've been thinking about your earlier "theoretical" comments as referenced in the subject line. How exactly would one look directly into the hearts = of all one's congregants and distinguish between the legitimate caring and sense of community of a church family, and a purely social organization? Even if you were using the term heresy in a general (nonlegal) sense, how would one determine that one's own notions of what is heretical constitute =   everyone else's absolute truth? And most perplexing (and to get this = vaguely back on topic), how would one stomach using one's God-given musical = ability to support such an evil as the inauthentic, insincere "worship" of such a group of people week after week?   I'm just asking <g>.   E. Adams    
(back) Subject: Re: Planning Organ Voluntaries From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:59:45 -0500   Desiree asked: "How do you plan your voluntaries? For February , I have been doing all French for Prelude and Postlude. In January I did as much Bach as possible. For March, Im doing Marches and Arias, with many of the arias being lyrical settings of Lenten hymns. "   As another poster noted, I plan mine around the hymns first and foremost. The rationale is that the hymns are selected to reinforce the lectionary's =   message of the day, so if my music can somehow reinforce a hymn in = people's minds, that's a Good Thing. If there's nothing appropriate in my library that's hymn-related, I look for something else that will support my other planning goal, which is to include a variety of timeframes and styles in what I play.    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Voluntaries From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:16:11 -0500   From a lengthy and highly critical screed: "But I must point out that the substitute preachers are usually just as bad or worse in their own way in their preaching. I don't know if the southwest Ohio ELCA synod is particularly ill-favored in the pulpit or if we're just getting the = dregs."   I don't know the pastor or substitutes in question. I *do* know I should just let this pass without comment, so this will be the only thing I say = on the subject.   From other posts it sounds like the problem, more than anything else, may = be that the congregation, pastor, substitute pastors and synod are simply the =   "wrong" denomination. The Southwest Ohio Synod of the ELCA was = instrumental in locating an enthusiastic, hardworking and capable pastor for my small congregation, even though our monetary resources are modest. He's doing a great job, and we're happy to have him.        
(back) Subject: Organ Voluntaries...how do you plan yours? From: "Millie & David Kenney" <kenn411@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 9:49:09 -0500   Desiree,   I plan my service music mainly based on the sermon text and theme. Most = of the time this is from the lectionary (I am part of a United Methodist = congregation.) If there is no "good match", I often go to the Psalm of = the day for my next reference. Emma Lou Diemer's Psalm settings and Dale = Wood's Psalm settings are good resources. Occasionally I will go with the = theme of a Psalm and improvise an 8-12 note tune for the prelude = (providing a title in the bulletin that reflects a verse or two). There = are also times that I will plan a piece based on the Epistle lesson, the = pastor first reading it, then commenting on the fact that the offertory = voluntary is based on the particular Scripture.   I also choose music based on the particular season, like Lent; however, I = am of the "camp" that sees each Sunday in Lent as "Alleluia" time, like = "little Easters". Some of my past teachers and pastors and music = directors would disagree, saying that the entire season must be somber or = dreary by obligation. I am not criticizing any particular kind of music = or worship style, just simply saying that I do not believe "praise" and = "celebration" must stop for 40 days PLUS 7 Sundays from Feb. 9 and Mar. = 27.   Hope this info. is useful to you.   Best wishes, David Kenney         Millie & David Kenney 135 18th Street, NE Cleveland, TN 37311   (423) 473-9705    
(back) Subject: Stainer (was Organ Voluntaries) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:07:43 -0600   Years ago I bought an LP featuring Stainer's Crucifixion that included = some "filler" organ works of his, and I have meant to look into purchasing representative pieces ever since. Now that Harry has reminded me of this, I'm wondering how best to go about it. I think Oecumuse republished his = Six Pieces for the Organ, Books 1 and 2, and perhaps these 12 pieces would be all I would need. Is Oecumuse still in existence? IIRC, John Henderson mentioned a while back that the owner/publisher of this firm was a missing person, perhaps a victim of foul play. Does anyone care to list Stainer's best organ pieces (strong prelude/postlude/recital material is what I'm looking for) and how/where one can purchase them?   Many thanks, Robert Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Grove <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:48 AM Subject: Re: Organ Voluntaries...how do you plan yours?     > I (attempt) to have voluntaries by a composer who has made an appearance > somewhere earlier in the service - whose music we have used for an Introit, > Anthem or Hymn. > It adds a little continuity of style (I believe) and also gives the more > musical of the congregation the opportunity to extend their appreciation of > that composer. > I always publish the Voluntaries - along with the details of the other > music. > > I try to have the same composer 'fore-and-aft' to preserve that same > 'continuity of style' - for example, yesterday, to echo the Gospel text > ...John 3:16 > "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever > believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. > we sang Stainer's "God so loved the world". > > So I played short pieces by Sir John, 'fore-and-aft', taken from "The > Village Organist" - published 1897, for one shilling. > My father's original copy! > > That's how I do it. > > Harry Grove > [a.k.a. a musicman working his way through a library of Victorian = pieces, > some of which delight the congregation and some of which are best forgotten > about] > > PS- perhaps this mailing might start a new thread ..... about the price = of > organ music ? > > _________________________________ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:37 AM > Subject: Organ Voluntaries...how do you plan yours? > > > > How do you plan your voluntaries? > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm >    
(back) Subject: Getting the right new pastor From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:16:12 +0000   On 2/21/05 2:16 PM, "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> wrote:   > The Southwest Ohio Synod of the ELCA was instrumental in locating an > enthusiastic, hardworking and capable pastor for my small congregation, e= ven > though our monetary resources are modest. He's doing a great job, and we'= re > happy to have him.   How great to hear that. My parish, in the Metro New York Synod of ELCA, is similarly fortunate. When we were =B3shopping=B2 a few years ago, the bishop and (especially) his wonderful staff did a fantastic job of getting us through the process, and in about seven months=B9 time, too. They offered us this one, or that one, or another one, all of whom were definitely worth considering. We =B3pushed,=B2 though, for the one we had in mind, and they finally offered him, and we =B3took him in,=B2 and we could not be happier! (And the few other congregations I=B9m familiar with have had VERY similarly happy workings-out of things.)   Alan =20    
(back) Subject: Lent 2: First United Lutheran From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:36:48 -0600   Second Sunday of Lent First United Lutheran Church, ELCA- Hammond, IN Rev. Dr. Bassam J. Abdallah, Pastor and Presiding Minister     Prelude- Excerpts from Sonata 6- Mendelssohn   Gathering Hymn- "The God of Abraham Praise" LEONI   Gospel Acclamation- "Return to the Lord..." With One Voice Setting 5   Hymn of the Day- "God Loved the World" ROCKINGHAM Prelude by Kenneth Leighton   Offertory Anthem- "God So Loved The World" Joel Martinson (beautiful piece for SA voices)   Canticle- "Let the Vineyards..." WOV Setting 5   Distribution- Taize selections "Eat this Bread," "O Lord, Hear My Prayer," "Jesus, Remember Me"   Sending- "We All Are One in Mission" KUORTANE (sp?)   Postlude- "My Jesus Calls to Me" Johannes Brahms     Blessings, Beau Surratt Director of Music and Organist First United Lutheran Church, ELCA 6705 Hohman Ave. Hammond, IN 46324      
(back) Subject: Re: sunrise services From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:46:22 -0600   One of the nicer services is held by the Central Moravian Church in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (where I lived from 1982-1987) at sunrise on = Easter Day in the old Moravian cemetery. Hymns are played by a consort of trombones or "Trombone Choir", an ensemble ideally suited to outdoor playing, as the sun comes over the horizon.   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:21 AM Subject: RE: sunrise services     I certainly have got the gist of this. But what puzzles me is how I've = been a member of this group for several years now, and this peculiarity has = never been mentioned until now. What other liturgical oddities have you = Americans got up your sleeves that you haven't mentioned yet?        
(back) Subject: Easter sunrise and vigil, too! From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:58:51 -0600   Some years back, while I was Organist/Choirmaster at St. Chad's Anglican here in Winnipeg, we had a memorable Easter Vigil AND a great Easter Sunrise service. (We did this for several years, but only once was memorable!)   We held the Vigil at 11:00 pm Saturday, starting with the organ silent, a wonderful cantor, culminating with glorious choral music, triumphant organ and congregational bells - all choreographed in a way that would have made Cecil B. deMille proud. In fact, the lady curate who rehearsed and organized the service was henceforth nicknamed "Cecille B. deMitchell". One of those perfect services.   Afterwards, about 50 of the attendees gathered at a home for an all night celebration, with much goodwill, fellowship and, yes, quite a lot of wine. One of those great parties. Everyone stayed until 6:00 am or so, then we all trotted off to the Easter Sunrise service.   We began the sunrise service outdoors in semi-darkness, moving inside once the sun had actually risen. Partygoers ranks were swelled by at least an equal number of folks who presumably needed their sleep. One of those inspirational services.   And a huge breakfast after! More goodwill, fellowship and much coffee! Then on to the main Easter services at 9:30 and 11:00, where the church was full, the liturgy was perfect, all went extremely well. But not nearly as vivid an experience as our "all-nighter".   Cheers, Russ Greene    
(back) Subject: Re: sunrise services - doing things OUR way From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:13:29 -0600   As May Morning is on a Sunday this year, we are planning to do the = Magdalen "Hymnus Eucharisticus" as the introit at our Sunday service (the tune can = be found in the "English Hymnal," No. 328, and the Latin words are on the Magdalen website mentioned in Harry Grove's posting below.) Our church doesn't have a tower, so we can't sing it from the tower. Is anyone else planning to sing this hymn on May Day? The words are not connected with = May Day, but as the title implies it is a Eucharistic Hymn. They have been singing it at Magdalen since at least the seventeenth century. I know = they have also sung it for many years at Bryn Mawr College, where my wife was = an undergraduate.   When I was at Oxford it used to be customary to follow the ceremony with a breakfast of champagne and strawberries and to go punting on the Cher (pronounced Char =3D River Cherwell), but I gather that because of some accidental drownings alcohol has now been banned from the proceedings. = The Morris Dancers also come out on May Morning, both at Oxford and here in = St. Louis.   In the nineteenth century the Preraphaelite artist William Holman Hunt painted a picture of "May Morning on Magdalen Tower" of which there are various images online including one at http://www.victorianartinbritain.co.uk/hunt_magdalen.htm   John Speller, D.Phil. (Oxon.) St. Mark's Episcopal Church, St. Louis, MO.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 6:46 AM Subject: Re: sunrise services - doing things OUR way     > Will, > > It must be a little along the lines of May Morning at Magdalen > http://www.magd.ox.ac.uk/history/cc_hymnus.shtml > > I did have a 'problem' with Saturday evening before Easter Day, last = year. > It was somewhat 'up-beat'. > I queried this with the Rector -Jesus being in Hell for 3 days and not > rising before Easter Day itself. > > I received a 'Non-answer' > > Harry Grove > [a.k.a. a musicman, starved of theological replies] > > The English may not like music, but they absolutely love the noise it makes. > Sir Thomas Beecham > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> > To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:42 PM > Subject: RE: sunrise services > > > > Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "sunrise service"? I assume it must be > > a > > service held at sunrise, but when, and why?      
(back) Subject: Re: Getting the right new pastor From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:13:54 EST   =20 In a message dated 2/21/2005 10:17:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:   And the few other congregations I=E2=80=99m familiar with have had VERY sim= ilarly=20 happy workings-out of things.) =20         except in Florida where the bishop gave us junk and so i left and re upped =20 with the UMC group........ =20 =20 dale in Florida  
(back) Subject: Re: sunrise services From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:30:53 EST   In a message dated 2/21/05 2:22:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, will.light@btinternet.com writes:   > What other liturgical oddities have you Americans > got up your sleeves that you haven't mentioned yet? >   some things are better left unsaid...  
(back) Subject: Re: Easter sunrise and vigil, too! From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:33:59 EST   In a message dated 2/21/05 7:59:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, rggreene2@shaw.ca writes:   > Everyone stayed until 6:00 am or > so, then we all trotted off to the Easter Sunrise service.   there is absolutely no way i could have done that. if i'm still up by = 10pm, i'm quite sleepy, and by midnight i'm wishing i was dead. by 6am, i would = be dead, and if not, those around me would wish i was.   scot  
(back) Subject: Re: Lent 2: First United Lutheran From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:53:33 -0500   Beau,   Who is the publisher of the Martinson piece?   Thanks,   Darryl  
(back) Subject: Re: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies From: "Hell-Concerts@t-online.de" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:05:17 +0100   Dear list members and friends,   I don't understand how someone can be so surprised to make it a serious point of discussion. We are leaving in a real world, i.e. statistics have their value. That is why you will find a mirror of our society in all other micro-societies, one of those is a congregation of a church. Sounding sarcastic? Well, I thought about this already for a long time, at least as long as I am involved with churches thanks to my son's profession. My thoughts sometimes even distract me, when attending a service and looking around. I better should restrain for doing so and better care of me and my own worshipping and meditating. But it's difficult, in particular if one personally knows even individuals with offices in the church, i.e. not "normal" congregation members, but individuals with "official" Christian responsibilities, who are actually so full of hate that they can't reflect any longer about themselves somewhat objectively. But then, these people obviously don't have the slightes difficulty to attend comminion Sunday after Sunday, and then begin the week again with their hatred, day after day, week after week, year after year. If I am a dentist, e.g., or a railroad engineer, or CEO, or cashier at Seven-Eleven, nobody cares about my personal relationship to religion in general, nor about my denomination, and how I behave as such, as long as I am doing my job properly. But as a leading figure in ANY church of ANY denomination, with my behavior I could easily encourage or discourage all those people, who have their reservations with regard to churches. On Sunday a saint, but from Monday on..... But, as long as everybody is just fine with carrying out only certain rites, and nobody is seriously trying to look behind the curtain, we will have to continue to ask ourselevs whether this is a club or a congregation of people, which identify themselves with that, what they are reading. teaching, praying and confessing every Sunday, and not rattling it off like a prayer wheel. I assure you, I have met wonderful people in chuches of all kind of denominations, doing wonderful things for our world. But the few (or are they really more??), the kind of whose I mentioned above, are mainly responsible for the decreasing number of those, who don't care whether the church is a club or a congrgation with a certain faith. They are also responsible for an increasing number of people, who turn away from churches, some of them even with feeling of revulsion. If we are seriously thinking about todays situation of a decreasing Christian identity, we should better restrain from finding all kinds of theological-philosophical-socialogical reasons, but have a closer look, each of us, into our own congregation and what's happening there. Or, even better, what's happening with us. For example: write a list of people you don't like, including those you in fact hate. And the take the phone, or take a piece of paper, or, even better, try to see the(se) person(s), have lunch with him/her or supper, saying: "Hey, how can we attend communion Sunday after Sunday together, drinking out of the same cup, and have us still on our hate list?"   But as this is going to develop into a real off topic discussion, at least for this list, I will stop now. And, to make it very clear: I am neither a preacher, nor a pastor, nor anything else of a know-it-all, smart aleck. No, I'm just a simple engineer, and a retired naval officer, who began to study Theology after highschool (40 years ago) and then dropped it, because I was unable to see me successfully combine Bultmann's Theology of Demythologisation (which I found fascinating) and the results of the Historical Jesus Research with every day's work in a parish. Only 30 years later, a kid playing the organ brought me back to church. And now, I am deeply involved - and seriously concerned. Not about the organ playing kid, but about the church.   Have a great week.   Hans-Friedrich Hell           -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:49:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>   >I've been thinking about your earlier "theoretical" comments as referenced in the subject line. How exactly would one look directly into the hearts of all one's congregants ............ Even if you were using the term heresy in a general (nonlegal) sense, how would one determine that one's own notions of what is heretical constitute everyone else's absolute truth? E. Adams     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: RE: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies From: "Sam Vause" <vause@cox.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:10:31 -0700   Thank you. Well said, as always. --sam Sam Vause (Chandler, AZ)   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Hell-Concerts@t-online.de Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:05 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Re: Social Clubs and Heresies   Dear list members and friends,   I don't understand how someone can be so surprised to make it a serious point of discussion. We are leaving in a real world, i.e. statistics have their value. That ....