PipeChat Digest #5172 - Wednesday, February 23, 2005
 
"authorities"
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Constant Appraisal
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
RE: sunrise services theologically unsound?
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Partly off-topic announcement
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Recording the Organ (and Choirs too!)
  by "Linda Kay Strouf" <strouf@hope.edu>
Re:  Allen Organ Ad
  by "Kenneth Potter" <swell_shades@yahoo.com>
Alan and Sunrise Services
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Allen advertisement
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Subject: Re: Allen Organ Advertisment
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: Partly off-topic announcement
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: sunrise services theologically unsound? & Lent
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: Easter Vigil
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: Lent
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: end of lent
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
Re: Recording the Organ (and Choirs too!)
  by "Richard Jordan" <mail@gesangbuch.org>
Re: Partly off-topic announcement
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
RE: Allen Organ Advertisment
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
 

(back) Subject: "authorities" From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:45:07 +1300   Dear List,   Perhaps I should explain my "arrogant" (my word) comments about Irwin, Audsley and some others. They are often taken as authorities, yet to me = the fact that they have written books does not make them so. I do not know, = and wonder if anyone else does, if Irwin had ears sensitive to tone? He, along with Audsley, and I don't know about him either, may or may not have been technically clever in building organs, and either or both of them may have had good finger technique and thus been "good organists", but I've never heard anyone discussing the quality of their musical ears, so do not know what those ears were capable of hearing.   The same applies to other writers: think of the organ books by Hinton, Robertson, Barnes, Bonavia Hunt, W&T Lewis (no connection with T.C.Lewis) and others: does anyone know if any of these had a sensitive ear? Possibly Bonavia-Hunt did, as he had some good voicing suggestions, but even then = it must be admitted he didn't have a clue about organ design. I think Sumner had a good ear, and also Cecil Clutton (though he was ravingly arrogantly pompous about his ideas on design). In any field of study, it is important to re-look at people sometimes and ask ourselves if they really deserve = the accolades they have had. Call it, if you like, a sort of organ historiography.   Think of a classic parallel example in church history. We have always been told that the Venerable Bede of Jarrow was a great church historian, but = now it seems clear that he plain made up a lot of things that have been = denoted accurate history for centuries, and some people think he was right in everything he said.     In about 1898-1900 a fellow in NZ called Mainwaring wrote a series of articles for a music magazine about organs here. He has so many spelling mistakes, errors of judgment, historical nonsense and so on that his stuff must be corroborated to be any use at all, yet he's quoted by some people = as an authority. On the other hand, there was a fellow called C.F.Turner who wrote a series of newspaper articles about NZ organs in 1927/8. Now, = having done my research, I can say that his work is remarkably accurate right through, and his writings can therefore be presumed to be pretty reliable when citing data not elsewhere available. Also, for his time, he seems to have made very sensible judgments about organ mechanical and tone quality, as anyone can attest by checking instruments surviving from his time that have survived unscathed or with little modification.   We need to be careful about hagiography when referring to prolific = builders of the past, too. I am not keen on Willis organs, even from the blessed (joke) Father Henry, for without the reeds they'd be not much at all, not even beginning to measure up to the flues of T.C.Lewis, Harrison & = Harrison or even Walker or Hill, to name a few, whatever Willis's technical cleverness and workmanship. Similarly, others of the period are virtually ignored yet did absolutely wonderful work tonally (and mechanically, too, = if it comes to that) - people like Hunter, Halmshaw, Bevington, Bishop and = many others.   I wonder if the same is true in the USA? From my own very limited = experience of American instruments, I wonder if Skinner has been grossly over-rated tonally? He certainly contributed nothing to ordinary organs for the classical music of the organ, as far as I can judge, but tried to create something symphonic of very little real musical use, orchestral if you = like but hopeless for Bach or even for accompanying choirs or congregations.   Exactly the way the "Baroquists" of the 1955-1980 period are being re-examined, and found wanting by many people for their lack of warmth and richness (and often also shoddy flimsy materials for both action and = pipes), so too does re-evaluation of "accepted masters" need to be constant, just = as our generation right now will be researched and expatiated about in fifty years time or even less.   Please do respond to this, and put me in your firing sights as much as you wish.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Constant Appraisal From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:58:19 -0800   I agree with Ross, constant re-evaluation of our activities not only in organ building, but as musicians and organists leads to growth.   My first organ book to read was the W. H. Barnes venerable "Contemporary American Organ." The book is in my library and I re-read it every now and then. I appreciate the author's enthusiasm, but I now understand that = many of his ideas might not have always been "spot on."   There is a huge organ at the First United Methodist Church in Palo Alto = that he designed and is pictured in the 1968 edition of his book. The gallery = is mostly the original Robert Morton - very successful. The front organ as assembled by Swain & Kates has been under constant revision since day one, and only recently, when the original small scaled Great 8' Principal was swapped out for a nice (not tubby) vintage Diapason, and a new properly scaled (larger) swell division installed, has the front organ started to "jell." So "authority" doesn't mean perfect always.   I never liked the neo baroque movement. However, I take every opportunity = I can to play well designed modern baroque instruments. The Fisk in = Memorial Church at Stanford is a beautiful instrument, even if it is difficult to play. So is the Murray Harris. What is really wonderful is that you have an American Romantic and a contemporary American tracker by an excellent builder (along with two other pipe organs of differing styles) in the same room. I wish there were more students to take advantage of such gems.   One of the most satisfying aspects of organ playing for me is finding the beautiful (or most musical) sounds each instrument offers. Finding = pleasing sounds on a generic or mundane organ says as much about musicianship as technique, sometimes more. Just my opinion...   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: RE: sunrise services theologically unsound? From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:47:51 -0600   Alan, if I ran the kitchen, you couldn't eat the cooking!   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Alan Freed Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:13 AM Having kicked off Lent with a pancake supper on Shrove Tuesday, I'd rather END Lent with blueberry waffles and sausages-especially if Glenda's running the kitchen!        
(back) Subject: Partly off-topic announcement From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:08:38 -0600   I gave notice at my job today. I will be leaving state employment effective March 10, and going into private practice the next week (maybe Monday the 14th, maybe the Ides of March). I've been neck-deep in insurance, retirement, deferred comp and pay for leave questions, as well as nailing down the partnership agreement with my friend and partner-to-be. Next week I'll be cleaning out my office and reviewing software, billing programs, title insurance policies and updates on the law.   There's not been time to get excited, but now that I've given notice I'm almost giddy. I'm half petrified, half exhilarated.   Meanwhile, I'm to play a recital gig this Sunday afternoon at my old church. The stress at work has been horrendous and has interfered with my concentration in practice. However, I'm only an amateur and am good to go, drinking my orange juice and eating my bananas. I know my music if my fingers will just cooperate. People will hear Bach and Mendelssohn like they've never heard it before, and probably hope never to again. I have no idea what publicity has been done or what kind of crowd, if any, there will be. I decided I'm not the organizer, and it's up to the church to do their part inasmuch as I am doing this gratis.   Four more court dockets and I'm a free woman! I've seen my new office - it needs a woman's touch.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Recording the Organ (and Choirs too!) From: "Linda Kay Strouf" <strouf@hope.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:31:37 -0500   This question has probably gone round several times on this list, but I'm wondering what some of you are using to record organ recitals and/or your choirs? Laptops? ProTools? MBox? Mics? It's all a bit greek to me, = but I'm willing to learn. Like most, I don't want to invest a fortune, but I = do want quality recordings. I'm interested in specific information, so = please feel free to email me off-list. Linda Strouf    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organ Ad From: "Kenneth Potter" <swell_shades@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:35:10 -0800 (PST)   Oh gawd, this calls for Homeland Security. Al(len) Quaida has struck.     Ken   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to = revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation, It will = preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been = built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national = morality, and the family as the basis of national life." --Adolph Hitler, February 1, 1933 (what goes around comes around)  
(back) Subject: Alan and Sunrise Services From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:14:27 -0600   Ah, Alan......I think I see where you're coming from now re: Sunrise Services. However, I suspect very few of the churches which energetically endorse and do Sunrise Services have a Vigil service; they tend to fall in different theological traditions, so the Sunrise crowd isn't already exhausted from a long vigil. Around here I rarely hear of a vigil outside the Catholic tradition. When I lived in a city with forty+ Lutheran churches, only the flagship ELCA congregation had a vigil--and it was a 30 minute early evening service.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Allen advertisement From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:16:43 -0600   Hey, why fault Allen Organ for trying to maximize their market--and for trying to see that existing organs aren't dumped!?   From here, it looks like a reasonable thing to do--and if it helps = maintain a healthy organ industry, so be it!   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Subject: Re: Allen Organ Advertisment From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:22:51 -0500   Guys,   One saving grace for this technology . . . it is still saving the organ = for the particular church should they change their minds later. I understand that this is a pipe organ list, but, like it or not, the Allen and Rodgers digital organs are the major electronic players in this country - it = seems. Somebody posted several days ago - prior to this announcement - that the real issue is whether or not THE ORGAN (regardless of whether or not it's = a pipe or electronic) is being played and enjoyed by the people.   If a church that is looking into contemporary music can do it less expensively if they already have the Allen organ. Now, for a wedding, a real organist comes in and plays beautiful music on the ORGAN, not on the keyboard that was purchased to go along with the contemporary music.   Anyway, just a thought. Keith       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Partly off-topic announcement From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:47:02 -0800   BRAVO GLENDA!!!!!!   (And don't ever look back.)   Michael   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:08 PM Subject: Partly off-topic announcement     >I gave notice at my job today. I will be leaving state employment > effective March 10, and going into private practice the next week (maybe > Monday the 14th, maybe the Ides of March). I've been neck-deep in > insurance, retirement, deferred comp and pay for leave questions, as > well as nailing down the partnership agreement with my friend and > partner-to-be. Next week I'll be cleaning out my office and reviewing > software, billing programs, title insurance policies and updates on the > law. > > There's not been time to get excited, but now that I've given notice I'm > almost giddy. I'm half petrified, half exhilarated. > > Meanwhile, I'm to play a recital gig this Sunday afternoon at my old > church. The stress at work has been horrendous and has interfered with > my concentration in practice. However, I'm only an amateur and am good > to go, drinking my orange juice and eating my bananas. I know my music > if my fingers will just cooperate. People will hear Bach and > Mendelssohn like they've never heard it before, and probably hope never > to again. I have no idea what publicity has been done or what kind of > crowd, if any, there will be. I decided I'm not the organizer, and it's > up to the church to do their part inasmuch as I am doing this gratis. > > Four more court dockets and I'm a free woman! I've seen my new office - > it needs a woman's touch. > > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >  
(back) Subject: Re: sunrise services theologically unsound? & Lent From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:56:12 EST   Dear Scot, I believe Lent ends at sundown on Maundy Thursday, at least Lenten fasting = -- then the Paschal fast begins! This covers the Triduum -- Maundy = thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday. I'm sure looking forward to a martini on =   Easter Sunday evening! Cheers! Steve Steven Weyand Folkers St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL    
(back) Subject: Re: Easter Vigil From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:22:37 EST   > for the first time in my life, i'll be playing an easter vigil. > having been > raised and employed in non-liturgical churches, i haven't got a clue > what > would be appropriate prelude & postlude music. can anyone offer some > suggestions?     In the Roman Catholic Rite, the Easter Vigil is the final part of a three-day liturgy. The Triduum begins with the Mass of the Lord's Supper = on Maundy Thursday -- this ends with the transfer of the Eucharist to an altar of = repose away from the main altar in the sanctuary. There is no dismissal ("The = Mass is ended, go in peace,") at this liturgy, and solemn adoration usually continues until midnight. There may be morning prayer on Good Friday, = but no Mass, perhaps a paraliturgy at 3:00 p.m. Good Friday continues with the Veneration of the Cross service, usually in the evening. It begins = without procession, just an opening prayer, as it is a continuation of the three = days begun the night before. Worshipers depart in silence, because the liturgy is = not finished yet! We pick it up again with the Easter Vigil on Holy Saturday = in a quiet and dark church. Thus, prelude music is not appropriate at Easter Vigil, because we are actually in the middle of one long three day = liturgy when the vigil begins. That's my understanding of it anyway! Good luck! Steve Steven Weyand Folkers St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL  
(back) Subject: Re: Lent From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:34:06 +0800   A little Googling got me this ... (http://www.kencollins.com/holy-04.htm)   The Season of Lent   Theme: Retreating Into the Wilderness with Jesus Dates: Lent is a forty-day period before Easter. It begins on Ash Wednesday. W= e skip Sundays when we count the forty days, because Sundays commemorate th= e Resurrection. Lent begins on 9 February 2005 and ends on 26 March 2005.   In the Roman Catholic Church, Lent officially ends at sundown on 24 Mar= ch (Holy Thursday), with the beginning of the mass of the Lord=92s Supper. Colors: In most churches, the decorations are purple or blue, royal colors to p= repare for the King. You can read more about color in worship The East: In Orthodox churches, this season is called the Great Lent. It begins o= n Clean Monday. Special Days: Ash Wednesday, 9 February 2005 The Annunciation, 25 March 2005=20   ----- Original Message ----- From: SWF12262@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: sunrise services theologically unsound? & Lent Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:56:12 EST   >=20 >=20 > Dear Scot, >=20 > I believe Lent ends at sundown on Maundy Thursday, at least Lenten fasting > -- then the Paschal fast begins! This covers the Triduum -- Maundy thur= sday, > Good Friday, and Holy Saturday. I'm sure looking forward to a martini on > Easter Sunday evening! >=20 > Cheers! > Steve >=20 > Steven Weyand Folkers > St. Lambert RC Church > Skokie, IL   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: end of lent From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:39:12 EST   Lent officially ends with the first Mass of Easter. If there is a Vigil, then that is the official end of Lent. Open your bottle of wine after the Vigil and forget about sunrise service = :)   Justin  
(back) Subject: Re: Recording the Organ (and Choirs too!) From: "Richard Jordan" <mail@gesangbuch.org> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:39:30 -0600   At 09:31 PM 2/22/05 -0500, you wrote: >This question has probably gone round several times on this list, but I'm =   >wondering what some of you are using to record organ recitals and/or your =   >choirs? Laptops? ProTools? MBox? Mics? It's all a bit greek to me, = but >I'm willing to learn. Like most, I don't want to invest a fortune, but I = do >want quality recordings. I'm interested in specific information, so = please >feel free to email me off-list.   The quality of the recording is a function of the equipment and the skill with which you use it. A skilled engineer knows how to get the best out of his equipment, lesser mortals benefit from better equipment. If you use a computer of any sort for recording it needs to have good input, and many laptops fail in this respect, at least with regard to their standard inputs although there are professional cards and addons. microphones are quite important, not just the quality of their output, but especially their placement, which has a tendency to be in the hardest places one can imagine to get them. Good microphones, like Neumann's, are wonderful if you can borrow or rent them - probably too expensive to own unless you can use them regularly. I've used a variety of equipment, and my best advice is to find an engineer, some have been known to donate their time and the use of their equipment - as learning to record takes considerable time [a lot to learn], and money similar to owning a boat but feel free to ask off list about any specifics...     Regards, Richard Jordan   http://www.Lutheran-Hymnal.com http://www.OnJordansBanks.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Partly off-topic announcement From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:46:52 +0800   Good for you. Go with the "Giddy and Exhilerated" and expect a standing roo= m only crowd. Get the recital recorded and post the music on "o&ool." I'm s= ure neither Messrs. Bach nor Mendelsshon will be turning over in their grav= es. (At least not as much as they do when I hack at their music.) :-)       ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Partly off-topic announcement Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:08:38 -0600   >=20 > I gave notice at my job today. I will be leaving state employment > effective March 10, and going into private practice the next week (maybe > Monday the 14th, maybe the Ides of March). I've been neck-deep in > insurance, retirement, deferred comp and pay for leave questions, as > well as nailing down the partnership agreement with my friend and > partner-to-be. Next week I'll be cleaning out my office and reviewing > software, billing programs, title insurance policies and updates on the > law. >=20 > There's not been time to get excited, but now that I've given notice I'm > almost giddy. I'm half petrified, half exhilarated. >=20 > Meanwhile, I'm to play a recital gig this Sunday afternoon at my old > church. The stress at work has been horrendous and has interfered with > my concentration in practice. However, I'm only an amateur and am good > to go, drinking my orange juice and eating my bananas. I know my music > if my fingers will just cooperate. People will hear Bach and > Mendelssohn like they've never heard it before, and probably hope never > to again. I have no idea what publicity has been done or what kind of > crowd, if any, there will be. I decided I'm not the organizer, and it's > up to the church to do their part inasmuch as I am doing this gratis. >=20 > Four more court dockets and I'm a free woman! I've seen my new office - > it needs a woman's touch. >=20 > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: RE: Allen Organ Advertisment From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:02:24 +0800   Or a couple of Marshall Full Stacks behind the altar table ... wouldn't it = be "kewl!"   Seriously, How good would the Allen Amps and Spearkers be at reproducting t= he high SPLs of Electronc Drums or the attack of an electronic piano? Ampli= fier manufacturers go to great lengths to tell us the reason their products= work best for whatever instrument they are designed for. If Allen was prod= ucing Amps/Spearkers to "faithfully reproduce the sound of pipe organs" wha= t would make them equally ideal for "Hard Driving Rock Music"? Can they dea= l with the entire Mix?     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Lowkis" <Lowkis@theatreorgans.com>   > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com>   > > I don't think that day will ever come. > > DS > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > > ScottFop@aol.com   > > We don't need to do that. In time, when they are selling less and less > > organs and people only want speakers and input boxes, they'll get the > > hint. >=20 > How about using guitar amps and speakers for the Allen Organ? > Would it be cheaper and have the organ blend better with the ensemble? >=20 > http://www.fender.com/products/show.php?seek=3Dbassamplifiers_rumbleseries >=20 > These look pretty good. >=20 > Stan Lowkis >=20 > a Fender/Allen?   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm