PipeChat Digest #5175 - Thursday, February 24, 2005
 
Re: Karg-Elert Chorale
  by "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk>
Concert in Chatham Ontario, Feb 26
  by "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com>
Re: Bach and Skinner
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Finances
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: to repeat or not to repeat...
  by "Merry Foxworth" <m.foxworth@verizon.net>
Re: Finances
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5174 - 02/24/05
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: to repeat or not to repeat...
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Seeking the Wisdom of the Knowledgeable
  by "dont_b_flat88@juno.com" <dont_b_flat88@juno.com>
Bach and Skinner
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Admin: Re: Finances
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Tweaking my Specification!
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: to repeat or not to repeat...
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Blended worship music
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Ernest Skinner: "Why Haunt the Cemetery?"
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Karg-Elert Chorale From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:01:32 -0000   If this is one of his Choral Preludes, Postudes, Studies, Improvisations etc. etc, for organ ? - there must be about 100 of them. The one on 'Nun Danket' is THE well known one.   More details please.   Bruce Miles   website - http://www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk/index.html   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:31 AM Subject: Karg-Elert Chorale     Does anyone know where I can quickly obtain a copy of Karg-Elert's = "Chorale" or "Koral" for organ?   Daniel Hancock Springfield, Missouri      
(back) Subject: Concert in Chatham Ontario, Feb 26 From: "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:20:14 -0500     Music for Soprano, Harp, Organ   Holy Trinity Anglican Church Victoria Ave and Selkirk St Chatham Ontario Feb 26, 7:30pm   Benefit concert for relief in Sudan and Southeast Asia Adults $15, Students $10   Soprano: Katy Hedalen Harp: Kristen Moss Theriault Organ: Martin Smyth     You can see the specification and hear the organ at: = http://www.pandk.com   PROGRAMME:   Mesiku na nebi hluboken (Rusalka)---Dvorak Quando men vo (La Boheme)----Puccini A Chloris----Hahn Danses sacree et profane---Debussy [Harp] Tuba Tune---Lang [Organ] The Rake's Progress----Stravinsky   **Intermission**   Cuatro Madrigales Amatorios---Rodrigo Danse Macabre---Saint-Saens/Lemare [Organ] Vilia (The Merry Widow)----Lehar Chi il bel sogno di Doretta (La Rondino)----Puccini Ombra mai fu (Xerses)----Handel     Refreshments after.      
(back) Subject: Re: Bach and Skinner From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:22:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)   Dear List,=0D =0D I would suggest borrowing a copy of Mr. Skinner's book (as they are ou= t of print right now); The Composition of the Organ. The book explains in great detail why Mr. Skinner did what he did, and cited the years of hard work he performed to come to those conclusions.=0D =0D There is nothing like a Skinner for text-painting hymns.=0D =0D - Nate
(back) Subject: Re: Finances From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:51:37 +0800   In Australia I pay a maximum of ( I think, with late increase) $4.20 per prescription. If you use a public hospital you pay no hospital bills. Insurance for a private room in a hospital costs about $50 per month in premiums. If you don't want a private room the cost is Zero. Medicare = pays. I too would be interested to know how the Weingarten organ can function without trackers. Surely pipes piped off over the distance involved would = be slow of speech? Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Finances     > Hi Merry and all our American friends. > >> Here in Canada we have a much better way, it is called Medicare. I = think > that it would be too revolutionary for your Congress to even think about =   > it. > > Bob Conway >       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: to repeat or not to repeat... From: "Merry Foxworth" <m.foxworth@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:24:40 -0500   Randy Terry writes:   .... If I can't answer that question myself, (how recently I played something) how realistic is it to suppose that anyone else will mind? (or even notice?)   My point exactly!   .... So if the director of the cocks and hens in the chancel choir on Main Street has some kind of compulsion that everything must be new, and repeating any anthem within five years would be a sin, he's probably giving them a succession of schlock. He should get over it and teach them one new piece a month that is challenging and interesting enough to wear well.   I agree. When I have directed choirs, I have sought to give the choir a mi= x of some things they knew from before, to give both them and the congregatio= n a certain comfort level, and a bunch of new things as well to challenge the= m and expose them to music they would not have known otherwise.   =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions: "There let the pealing organ blow, To the full-voiced choir below, In service high, and anthems clear, As may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into ecstasies, And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).   Merry Foxworth Open Door Realty Boston, MA 02131 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/     an  
(back) Subject: Re: Finances From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:19:37 -0500   Bob C.,   You may also want to tell folk on this list, that Canadian Medicare is broke and inadequate in many places. The fact of the matter is socialized =   medicine cost more money than governments are willing to spend on it. So now we have over-crowded emergency wards, sever shortage of doctors and nurses, long waiting lists for surgery.   So if you live in Ontario in particular, because that is where I live, if you don't have a family doctor, you won't get one. If you do have one, = you basically stay with that doctor, even if you move. Lineups for surgical procedures keep getting longer, and not only that, increasing number of procedures are no longer covered by Medicare.   In Canada, as in the US, increasingly the best thing to do is live a healthy lifestyle and don't get sick.   Arie V.           At 07:51 AM 2005-02-24, you wrote: >In Australia I pay a maximum of ( I think, with late increase) $4.20 per >prescription. If you use a public hospital you pay no hospital bills. >Insurance for a private room in a hospital costs about $50 per month in >premiums. If you don't want a private room the cost is Zero. Medicare = pays. >I too would be interested to know how the Weingarten organ can function >without trackers. Surely pipes piped off over the distance involved would =   >be slow of speech? >Bob Elms. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:00 AM >Subject: Re: Finances > > >>Hi Merry and all our American friends. >> >>>Here in Canada we have a much better way, it is called Medicare. I = think >>that it would be too revolutionary for your Congress to even think about = it. >> >>Bob Conway      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5174 - 02/24/05 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:22:00 -0500   Amen! TESTIFY! David Baker   On Feb 24, 2005, at 5:01 AM, PipeChat wrote:   > > Subject: Re: Finances > From: "Merry Foxworth" <m.foxworth@verizon.net> > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:46:34 -0500 > > They say over 50% of bankruptcies are a result of medical bills. It > is an > absolute travesty in the US that people are sent into bankruptcy > because of > medical bills they can't pay. This is different from ordinary credit > card > debt. This would not happen in practically any other country. > > The banks and mortgage companies are far too powerful. They get away > with > many, many ways of ripping off the consumer because Congress allows > it. We > should all contact our congresspeople and urge them to pass > legislation that > is fair to the consumer for a change. > > Merry    
(back) Subject: Re: to repeat or not to repeat... From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:31:02 -0500   Dear List,   In the convoluted mess of quotes and answers, I am not sure who actually wrote the following: [If] "repeating any anthem within five years would be = a sin, he's probably giving them a succession of schlock." This seems to suggest that there is a = dearth of fine choral music, with not enough available to fill five years without =   repeats. This is not so, but one needs to dig a bit. Having said that, that's not the way I want to live. With each season, how good it is for = the choir to find in their rehearsal folders something they loved last year in =   Lent, but the portion of new and challenging is important as well for the growth of both choir and congregation.   It is my practice, perhaps every other week - whenever I think it = possible, to announce to the choir at the start of rehearsal, that we will now sing last week's anthem - from memory. <Mozart Ave Verum, please.> The music = had, of course, been collected after church. Of course they CAN do it, with an occasional prompt, and what joy they show in meeting this old friend just one more time, on a different level. The first time I did this, shortly after I began at this church, there were groans and protestations: "No = way, I can't possibly do that!" No more. At the beginning of some rehearsal = when I had not really intended to play this game, someone will ask if they can all sing last Sunday's anthem. Who could refuse?   Feeling guilty about continuing this off-topic discussion, but finding it irresistible,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merry Foxworth" <m.foxworth@verizon.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:24 AM Subject: Re: to repeat or not to repeat...     Randy Terry writes:   .... If I can't answer that question myself, (how recently I played something) how realistic is it to suppose that anyone else will mind? (or even notice?)   My point exactly!   .... So if the director of the cocks and hens in the chancel choir on Main Street has some kind of compulsion that everything must be new, and repeating any anthem within five years would be a sin, he's probably = giving them a succession of schlock. He should get over it and teach them one = new piece a month that is challenging and interesting enough to wear well.   I agree. When I have directed choirs, I have sought to give the choir a = mix of some things they knew from before, to give both them and the = congregation a certain comfort level, and a bunch of new things as well to challenge = them and expose them to music they would not have known otherwise.   =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions: "There let the pealing organ blow, To the full-voiced choir below, In service high, and anthems clear, As may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into ecstasies, And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).   Merry Foxworth Open Door Realty Boston, MA 02131 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/     an   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Re: Seeking the Wisdom of the Knowledgeable From: "dont_b_flat88@juno.com" <dont_b_flat88@juno.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:46:57 GMT     Thanks, Ron.   I will call my contact and get more details about exactly who moved it.   I may have more questions for you later also.     D. Eason, Jr.   ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!    
(back) Subject: Bach and Skinner From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:03:07 -0600     From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>   >Those who would state that Bach cannot be played on an E. M.=20 >Skinner surely must never have played one of his=20 >instruments. Or else, just don't know how to play - period.   >Sorry to be blunt, but such a statement as that is a totally=20 >ludicrous and ill-informed condemnation of his instruments.   Ross wrote:   >Where are Skinner's clarity? Balanced Principal choruses? Clear mutations? >Schnarrwerck reeds? Low pressures? Sensitive action? Clear Pedal divisions >that don't need coupling? Casework to focus the sound? Crisp voicing? An >understanding of Mixtures?   I think you have to look for clarity in Skinner instruments in a different manner in which you might in a Schnitger or a Silbermann. I'm sure you could create muddy and unclear ensemble on even the finest examples of these Baroque masters, too. The difference is in knowing what those organs are designed to do well--and those assets apply well and directly to Bach. If Skinner organs had Schnarrwerck reeds, low pressures, pedal divisions that don't need coupling, free-standing casework, and "crisp" voicing (whatever that may be), then they wouldn't be Skinner organs any more, would they?   I don't think that you can accurately claim that the best Skinner organs didn't have balanced principal choruses, sensitive actions, and mixtures designed with understanding. Perhaps principal choruses were balanced according to different ideals, but it was a very intentional action. Skinner was no ignoramus who acted because he simply didn't 'know'; he defied long-standing tradition on purpose in order to accomplish something 'different'. And what he sought to achieve, he did, and grandly!   >I could go on but, unless I've been very sadly misinformed by what I've >seen, read and heard, these are just some of the aspects of Skinner organs >that don't exist. G.Donald Harrison, as I understand it, made some vast >improvements, but (again as I understand it) the organs were no longer >Skinners but Aeolian-Skinners.   But how much experience have you had playing good Skinner organs?   >Of course it's physically possible to play Bach on any instrument where the >compass is adequate, but that's not what I was talking about.   No, I realized that. But I think that in order to play Bach on a Skinner you have to realize both what Bach's intentions were in registration for his music, and also what Skinner's tonal ideals were in designing his organs. Then--and this part will be hard for some--you have to be 'creative' and learn how to make both the limitations and advantages of music and instrument that weren't created for one another work in a way that honors both. And it is possible! But it can't be achieved by blindly and thoughtlessly trying to apply baroque rules and practice on an instrument that won't respond to them. You have to think! And you have to modify those rules to work even on a Skinner organ. If this is done carefully, then one can take the best from both traditions and make it work in a convincing manner. =20   >And from another post, Ross: >Ah, but that's a different thing................ Here, too, I know some >instruments that have some fine and useful stops, but even so the organ >remains pretty hopeless for all but a very limited repoertoire. I can think >of the IV/57 Norman & Beard from 1906 in our Wellington Town Hall. >Magnificent for full-blast Lemmens, Meyerbeer et al., but utterly hopeless >for Bach except the soft flutes and they very quickly become exceedingly >boring in recital as they are so quiet.=20   I simply can't believe that on 'any' organ of four manuals and 57 ranks one can only play Bach 'well' on the soft boring flutes. Think outside the box!   Ross, I can only say I'm enjoying this debate far too much, and look forward eagerly to your response!   Best regards--   Daniel Hancock Springfield, Missouri  
(back) Subject: Admin: Re: Finances From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:09:22 -0600   Pardon me all for interrupting, but I gotta ask --   What exactly has any of this discussion have to do with organs/organ = music?   Let's move on now, before somebody inadvertently gets offended at something...PLEASE...??!!   :-) :-)   --Tim Pipechat Co-Administrator      
(back) Subject: Tweaking my Specification! From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:15:48 -0000   At long last we are nearing the point when our Church Council will be = giving the go-ahead to the renovation and refurbishment of our II/19 Rothwell organ. Apart from cleaning, revoicing, re-leathering etc. the organ is to be = given a "new" (second-hand) console and have a 16' reed added to the pedal as = an extension to the Great Horn.   The work gives me the chance to make some changes - not by adding any = more pipework - there isn't the room or the money to do this, but by rewiring = or borrowing. There is room on the new console for a few extra stop tabs.   I would appreciate any suggestions as to how the specification (given = below) could be improved with these limitations.=20   The Great Horn will be extended downwards with an octave of pipes I = already have and be made available at 16' and 8' on the pedal. I am particularly interested in what you may think could be done with the two "mixture" = ranks; The Octavin which is currently used at 2' on the Swell and the other = rank, currently used as "Flageolet Quint" at 2 2/3 and "Larigot" 1 1/3. These = are both on unit chests and could be wired at various other pitches or used = to wire a "mixture" or a "Cornet" of some sort as well as possibly being = used to give other "mutations".   I have also been thinking of the possibility of putting an Octave = Coupler on the Great to gain a bit of versatility. I realise of course that all of these suggestions will mean breaking-back top octaves or silent top = octaves but that is a limitation I'm willing to accept.   The church has been carpeted since the organ was installed and has lost = some "presence" as a result. On what lines do you think it should be revoiced = to cope with this?   I'm sorry if this sounds like one of our "competitions" but I genuinely would like to hear some opinions from all you experts out there! I will = be meeting my organ builder next week to hammer out a final spec for the = work and all your thoughts will be grist to our mill!   Will Light Coventry UK   SCROLL DOWN FOR THE EXISTING SPECIFICATION!     Specification of the Rothwell / Harris Organ at Earlsdon Methodist Church, Coventry   Great: 1. Open Diapason I 8 2. Open Diapason II 8 3. Hohlflote 8 4. Dulciana 8 5. Flauto Traverso 4 6. Principal 4 (From original organ at Earlsdon Methodist Church) 7. Fifteenth 2 (Harris 1970) 8. Horn 8   Great Couplers: (i) Swell to Great 16 (ii) Swell to Great 8 (iii) Swell to Great 4   Swell: 9. Melodic Diapason 8 10. Lieblich Gedact 8 11. Echo Gamba 8 12. Celeste 8 13. Gemshorn 4 14. Flageolet Quint 2 2/3 (Harris 1970) 15. Octavin 2 (Harris 1970) 16. Larigot 1 1/3 Extension of No. 14. 17. Oboe 8 18. Cornopean 8=20 19. Tremulant   Swell Couplers: (iv) Sub Octave 16 (v) Unison Off (vi) Super Octave 4   Pedal: 20. Contra Bass 32 From No. 21. Bottom octave quinted from Nos. 21 and 22 21. Open Diapason 16 22. Bourdon 16 23. Octave 8 Extension of No. 21 24. Flute Bass 8 Extension of No. 22 25. Flautina 4 Extension of No. 22   Pedal Couplers: Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal   Accessories: 3 thumb pistons to Swell. (Adjustable at console) 3 thumb pistons to Great. (Adjustable at console) 1 piston Great to Pedal (Reversible - duplicated by toe piston) 1 piston Swell to Great (Reversible - duplicated by toe piston) Electric Blower.        
(back) Subject: RE: to repeat or not to repeat... From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:18:56 -0500   Malcolm Wechsler writes:   >This seems to suggest that there is a dearth of fine choral music, with not enough available to fill five years without repeats.   Pas du tout! But surely you will admit a distinct positive correlation between quality and difficulty, despite a few well-known exceptions or seeming exceptions such as Mozart's Ave Verum (which is no doubt why they're so well-known). Therefore, quality tends to require more time to learn well than schlock does. =20   Isn't it the same with organ music, even what might be considered easy? I first learned Bach's "O Mensch bewein" at age 14 or 15, but to this day the idea of attempting to play it in a master class for a world-famous artist to pick apart in front of a group of colleagues would fill me with terror. Might as well strip naked before them.   LaVahn Maesch, my organ teacher during high school and college, and his wife together ran the most respected church music program in town at their Congregational church. His choir knew "Like as the hart" by Howells, but he called it quite a difficult anthem. For the average choir member, I wouldn't doubt it-- especially if one aims at a high standard.   Thanks for your suggestion of trying an anthem by memory after the fact. It so happens that my choir this very motet last Sunday (at least I hope they did, I wasn't there) so I can spring exactly this idea on them.    
(back) Subject: RE: Blended worship music From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:12:19 -0500   > I am greatly enjoying exploring the resources of our supplement to our official 1982 Hymnal, LEVAS II. It includes many American gospel and contemporary songs, and many hymns and spiritual songs from the African-American tradition.   I must admit that I, too, am mellowing in my old age and minding it much less than I was expecting. In fact, after the experience of a few months, I said to a friend who was balking at his rector's request to use it, "maybe you shouldn't be so afraid of it, it's just good-old Gospel hymns and spirituals." But he replied that it also has material that he wouldn't want to do, and it was the latter that the rector particularly had in mind.   Actually, I don't mind it at all, but that's because I'm in charge, and as long as that's true it won't be a slippery slope. With someone else choosing the music, you can't be sure.   Someone on the Ship of Fools had a good suggestion yesterday (tried and true somewhere in Canada): "Blend" by starting the worship with an informal sing-a-long, complete with guitars, praise band, whatever floats their boat for ten or fifteen minutes; then begin the liturgy and keep the proceedings strictly traditional throughout the remainder of the service. Does anyone here have experience with that approach?    
(back) Subject: Ernest Skinner: "Why Haunt the Cemetery?" From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:46:27 -0600   For those of you who might wish to supplement your thinking on the practices of Ernest Skinner, check out the article "Why Haunt The Cemetery?" which was written by Skinner himself for The Diapason in August of 1933 on his account of innovation versus tradition.   http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/echoes/cemetery.htm   It appears that Skinner considered himself justified in breaking from tradition partially because of the then lack of scholarly work on the historical schools of organ building. His innovation was partly required because of that.   Happy reading.   Daniel Hancock Springfield, Missouri