PipeChat Digest #5180 - Saturday, February 26, 2005
 
Re:Wicks in Columbus
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Ernest M. Skinner
  by "Mark Nelson" <mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com>
A console of interest
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Ernest M. Skinner
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
The Orchestra in the Organ
  by "Will Scarboro" <whs1325@yahoo.com>
Re: Just way too Catholic
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
RE: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias??
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias??
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias??
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re:Wicks in Columbus
  by "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: Ernest M. Skinner and Bach
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: Ernest M. Skinner and Bach
  by "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Just way too Catholic
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re:Wicks in Columbus
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
RE: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias??
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Wicks in Columbus
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re:Wicks in Columbus From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:19:35 EST   >There is also a large Wicks from Columbus, Ohio on the site. Can anyone >tell of these organs' stories?     Isn't the Wicks on there from the Catholic cathedral in Columbus that's getting a big new tracker?   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Ernest M. Skinner From: "Mark Nelson" <mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:10:21 -0500   Where in Maine?   Mark Nelson     On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:52:02 EST, Justinhartz@aol.com <Justinhartz@aol.com> wrote: > I visit Ernest M. Skinner's grave whenever I visit Maine. > The epitaph on his tombstone reads: > > Ernest Martin Skinner > Great American Organbuilder > > I believe that sums it up. > > Justin Hartz >  
(back) Subject: A console of interest From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:14:25 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)   Dear List,=0D =0D A few months ago, I viewed a DVD video that was filmed in Germany.=20 Amongst the many organ shots, there was one scene in this video that featured the most peculiar console I have ever seen. In addition to the hundreds of buttons for putting stops on (that light up!), I swear that t= he manuals appeared to radiate ever so slightly. Was this an optical illusi= on, or does this console really exist?=0D =0D Best,=0D =0D - Nate
(back) Subject: Re: Ernest M. Skinner From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:40:15 EST   In a message dated 2/26/05 5:10:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com writes:   > Where in Maine? > > Mark Nelson   according to dorothy holden's "the life and work of ernest m. skinner" he = is buried in woodland cemetery in bethel, maine.   ernest's nephew, ned hastings, was the organist for the funeral. hastings =   played about 40 minutes of music for the prelude, which included 2 purvis chorales (not named), the transformation scene from parsifal, bach's "o = god be merciful to me," vierne's berceuse (from 24 pieces), and "air" by william = churchill hammond.   ernest's daughter, eugenia, is the one who decided on his epitaph.   scot in spokane  
(back) Subject: The Orchestra in the Organ From: "Will Scarboro" <whs1325@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:14:44 -0800 (PST)   Dear list, Ross said the following to my comment about there being orchestral voices = in the organ before Skinner's time: "Sure there were vague imitations, but I'm not sure the organ should even = try to imitate orchestral voices. The organ predates the orchestra and has a particular genius of its own. Even the best organ voices are only an = imitation of the real thing and it seems silly want to make an imitation." Ross, for pratically the entire history of the organ there have been = orchestral voices in the organ even if they weren't trying to imitate the = real instruments. The only sound in the organ that doesn't come from any = other instrument is the Diapason. The stops of this family are unique to = the organ. I don't think even you would want to go back to the days when = only Diapasons were in the organ. So as long as organ builders continue to = build organs with stops such as the Trumpet, Krummhorn, Oboe, Traverse = Flute, Viola da Gamba, Piccolo, and even Chimes there will be a little bit = of the orchestra in every organ. BTW, Skinner did know about Mixtures, Mutations, and Cornets and used them = in his organs. More then most other builders of the same time and = especially after 1924. I suggest that you come to this country and hear = the best examples of Skinner, Kimball, and Austin before you make a = judgement on the validity of this type of organ. Heck, while you're here = you might as well also hear some Hooks, Johnsons, and Hutchings organs too = just to round out your experience. The English romantic organ which you = know, is not nearly the same as the American romantic organ and it makes = no sense to me to make judgements without some knowledge to use as a basis = for such judgements. So there. Sincerely, Will Scarboro       Will Scarboro   -musica pro populus- --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
(back) Subject: Re: Just way too Catholic From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:27:56 -0500   Just way too CatholicWell, in these days in which we receive e-mail = offers for various pharmaceuticals, I should mention a little-known but = significant product, important for those who would prefer not to be born = again. It is called a contra-receptive tablet.   It is manufactured by a small company in Devil's Gulch, West Virginia.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler "Once Is Enough"=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Freed=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:31 AM Subject: Just way too Catholic     On 2/25/05 7:31 PM, "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> wrote:   > As for the stink-pots and candles; Oh, man, that's just way to = Catholic... =20 Reminds me of a two-liner that Pastor dropped into his sermon last = Sunday (on John 3, "rebirth," you understand). He spoke of feeding time = at our soup kitchen; there was a new volunteer helping with the serving.   Volunteer (to Pastor): "Are you born again?" Pastor: "Oh, yes! When I was baptized." Volunteer: "Oh, that's catholic!" Pastor: "Yes MA'AM!"   Alan            
(back) Subject: RE: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias?? From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:42:16 -0600   Ad, I defer to the others on the list, but also remember in the dim recesses of my memory a priest once telling me that the Schubert was frowned upon. I know not why, and cannot remember his answer (age does that to you, doesn't it?). I had never heard that the Bach/Gounod was disfavored in any way.   Interesting.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias?? From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:11:18 EST   Hi Glenda:   The reason that it initially was frowned upon was that Schubert originally set the piece to a poem which translates as The Lady of the Lake a secular folk song I guess. It was later published with several texts including the words of the Hail Mary in Latin. That's how it became so traditionally famous for weddings and funerals. The rest is history.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias?? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:24:18 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias??     > Hi Glenda: > > The reason that it initially was frowned upon was that Schubert > originally set the piece to a poem which translates as The > Lady of the Lake a secular folk song I guess. It was later > published with several texts including the words of the Hail > Mary in Latin. That's how it became so traditionally famous > for weddings and funerals. The rest is history.   It's amazing how many tunes connected with the Lady of the Lake ended up doing other things. There was an operatic setting of Sir Walter Scott's book written in London in the 1820's that included a song, "Hail to the chief" -- and so far as that is concerned, the rest is history too!   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re:Wicks in Columbus From: "Scott" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:35:09 -0800 (PST)   http://www.saintjosephcathedral.org/sitemap/music/organs_and_organists.htm Yes, they are getting a huge new Fritts organ which is suppose to be = completed in 2006. There is a link to the music webpage above.   RMB10@aol.com wrote: >There is also a large Wicks from Columbus, Ohio on the site. Can anyone >tell of these organs' stories?     Isn't the Wicks on there from the Catholic cathedral in Columbus that's getting a big new tracker?   Monty Bennett   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:       Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Re: Ernest M. Skinner and Bach From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:34:29 -0600   There are at least some indications of what Bach liked. He criticized Silbermann's instruments for not being brilliant enough, and seems to have preferred the sounds of Schnitger's organs. He liked instruments with = more than adequate wind supplies and no tendency toward unsteadiness of wind.   Changes he made to instruments that were being rebuilt suggest that he = liked massive effects (this is confirmed by his concerti for multiple harpsichords), such as 32' reeds. He also seems to have been very fond of string stops.   Big, loud and screechy. Probably an Ernest White Moller would have suited him best.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:50:37 EST   Dear Scot and Monty:   The present organ appears to already have all the bells and whistles needed on a Cathedral organ. Why change out the E.M. Skinner/Wicks for something else? Where will this organ be going? It seems a shame to dump it as the specification for most organists would be to die for.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:55:10 -0800 (PST)   There are not dumping the organ. They are selling it to give it a good = home. Maybe they realized that they like tracker organs. There might = only be 2-3 ranks from the old Skinner organ and maybe they just don't = like the way the Wicks sounds in the room. Many organists don't like there = organ and always strive for something they might think is better. A = Fritts organ is defiantly a great choice for a new instrument. The new = organ seems to placed in the same spot as the old organ.     RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: Dear Scot and Monty:   The present organ appears to already have all the bells and whistles needed on a Cathedral organ. Why change out the E.M. Skinner/Wicks for something else? Where will this organ be going? It seems a shame to dump it as the specification for most organists would be to die for.   Ron Severin     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:       Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Re: Ernest M. Skinner and Bach From: "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:35:10 -0600   John L. Speller wrote: > There are at least some indications of what Bach liked. He criticized > Silbermann's instruments for not being brilliant enough, and seems to = have > preferred the sounds of Schnitger's organs. He liked instruments with = more > than adequate wind supplies and no tendency toward unsteadiness of wind. > > Changes he made to instruments that were being rebuilt suggest that he = liked > massive effects (this is confirmed by his concerti for multiple > harpsichords), such as 32' reeds. He also seems to have been very fond = of > string stops. > > Big, loud and screechy. Probably an Ernest White Moller would have = suited > him best. > > John Speller   John, I know you may be speaking a bit extempore (especially the last line), and your overall point has merit. But the Bach-Schnitger connection is now considered probably the least likely to be a "preferred" sound for the mature Bach, despite his visits to Hamburg and the early connection to the North German school via Lu"neburg.   A more detailed and nuanced essay on the possible range of Bach's organ taste is at:   http://www.organfocus.com/features/scholarly_works/bicknell.php3   More than you wanted to know, I know...   John Seboldt Milwaukee, WI  
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:01:03 EST   Yes, Saint Joseph's Cathedral is getting a large mechanical action = instrument to replace the Wicks. The important early Skinner that was in there burned =   many years ago while it was in somebody's shop for rebuilding.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City http://www.glucknewyork.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Just way too Catholic From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:11:25 EST   Also, way too Catholic, but aren't we glad we HAVE them - "All creatures of our God and King" "Of the Father's Love Begotten" 'Veni Creator' - with various translations of the text set in hymnic, plainsong settings D Rider Missouri  
(back) Subject: Re:Wicks in Columbus From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:29:30 -0800 (PST)   The Cathedral in Columbus, Ohio is getting a new Fritts tracker. I remember the week Paul had them sign the contract. He had a few contracts signed that week.   >   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:42:48 EST   In a message dated 2/26/05 6:20:07 AM Central Standard Time, RMB10@aol.com =   writes:   > Isn't the Wicks on there from the Catholic cathedral in Columbus that's > getting a big new tracker?   Yes, and having looked on the Cathedral's music webpage, I am not = impressed with the spec at all. Another neo-baroque "squeak box" going into a = Liturgical space that cries for foundation tone. No doubt they are throwing out the E.M. Skinner pipework and case, which was BUILT for that space in 1923 and = is beautiful. <sigh>   Scott F. Foppiano Organist and Director of Parish Music Holy Rosary Catholic Church, Memphis, TN In te Domine speravi, non confundar in aeternum.  
(back) Subject: RE: Catholic vs non-catholic Ave Marias?? From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:39:10 -0600   Thanks, Ron. I now remember seeing it with different words of a less Marian and/or biblical nature.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of RonSeverin@aol.com   The reason that it initially was frowned upon was that Schubert originally set the piece to a poem which translates as The Lady of the Lake a secular folk song I guess. It was later published with several texts including the words of the Hail Mary in Latin. That's how it became so traditionally famous for weddings and funerals. The rest is history.        
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:48:04 -0800 (PST)   Ummm...Scott Fopiano wrote:   "Another neo-baroque "squeak box" going into a Liturgical"   Now...as musch as I love all organs of worth, EP or Tracker, oe even a toaster, 2 manuals or 5, Yesterday, or YesterYear, I have to say that Paul Fritts organs are in no way "squeak boxes". Even people comment on the organ at PLU without even hearing it. It DOES have a very large Swell division, and can play all periods of repertoire beautifully.   HOWEVER, much respect to Scott for voicing his opinion. He is entitled to it. Let's just wait and see/hear the organ.   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250  
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:51:43 EST   In a message dated 2/26/05 12:49:48 PM Central Standard Time, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:   > Ummm...Scott Fopiano wrote: > > "Another neo-baroque "squeak box" going into a > Liturgical" Now...as musch as I love all organs of worth, EP or > Tracker, oe even a toaster, 2 manuals or 5, Yesterday, > or YesterYear, I have to say that Paul Fritts organs > are in no way "squeak boxes". Even people comment on > the organ at PLU without even hearing it. It DOES have > a very large Swell division, and can play all periods > of repertoire beautifully. HOWEVER, much respect to Scott for voicing = his > opinion. He is entitled to it. Let's just wait and see/hear the organ.     MY opinion is that I just DONT like trackers in Liturgical worship spaces. = They don't have the expression a big EP with multiple swell boxes have nor = do they generally offer the same colors. I am sorry, but the Great division specification is woefully lacking in 8' tone, in my opinion, especially = for a room with that acoustic. Just like the Episcopal church in Grand Rapids that = has (had) a huge Romantic Austin in the chancel and then some organist of = theirs INSISTED on a Cliquot copy in the gallery tuned in some weird temperament. = Everyone agrees that it's cute for a recital or a specific piece of music = now and then, but it does NOT serve liturgy and congregationa singing AT ALL.   And by the way, Desiree, there are two "p's" in my name.   Scott F. Foppiano Organist and Director of Parish Music Holy Rosary Catholic Church, Memphis, TN In te Domine speravi, non confundar in aeternum.  
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:14:00 EST   The Skinner that was in the St. Joseph's Cathedral was quite an organ, indeed. I remember being able to play that organ while I was there in = Columbus in (? ) 1974 at an ATOS regional convention, which also had what was probably = the very first young organist competition. The acoustic in the cathedral is hugh, and I personally feel that they = would have been much better off with a Skinner-esqe designed organ.   RIck in VA  
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks in Columbus From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:05:05 -0800 (PST)   Scott Foppiano (with two "p's", mea culpa ;) ) Wrote: >MY opinion is that I just DONT like trackers in Liturgical worship spaces. They don't have the expression a big EP with> multiple swell boxes have nor do they generally offer the same colors. I am sorry but the Great division specification is woefully lacking in 8' tone, in my opinion, especially for a room with that acoustic. Just like the Episcopal church in Grand Rapids that has (had) a huge Romantic Austin in the chancel and then some organist of theirs   INSISTED on a Cliquot copy in the gallery tuned in some weird temperament. Everyone agrees that it's cute for a recital or a specific piece of music now and then, but it does NOT serve liturgy and congregationa singing AT ALL.   From Desiree':   Now there you have some good points. The Grand Rapids church sold to UNT. If I recall correctly, the dedicatory at UNT was not TOO well received. That particular instrument was not suited for liturgy.   Trackers in Liturgical spaces: I think that there are some successful trackers in Liturgical Spaces. One is being dedicated this weekend herein Chicago. The new Fisk at St Chrysostoms may be a very good instrument,or not. We will see tomorrow.     I did not intend to offend Scott in making my post. I am just reminded of the many Sunday worship services held in Lagerquist Hall at Pacific Lutheran University and how wonderful the singing was to the Fritts organ. I don't think that the organ has a temperment that is going to offend to congregation, or leave them wanting different. I am also reminded that Lagerquist Hall has about 4 seconds reverberation. There may be more.   Im sure the Skinner is beautiful. I have not heard it. Im sure the Fritts will be nice as well. We will lhave to wait and see/hear the outcome.             __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail