PipeChat Digest #5186 - Monday, February 28, 2005
 
Re: W H Y  N O T  ?????
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: NO ARIAS FOR ORGAN???   Re: Desiree's love of organs
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: My recital from hell
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Glenda's Recital
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: W H Y  N O T  ?????
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: W H Y  N O T  ?????
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
RE: Holy Name Flentrop in Chicago
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@comcast.net>
Re: NO ARIAS FOR ORGAN???   Re: Desiree's love of organs
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: W H Y  N O T  ?????
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
music list for Sunday, Feb 27
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: My recital from hell
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: music list for Sunday, Feb 27
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: My recital from hell
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: Ernest M. Skinner
  by "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com>
uncalled for!!!!   was: RE: Ernest M. Skinner
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: music list for Sunday, Feb 27
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: W H Y N O T ????? From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:33:21 EST   In a message dated 2/27/05 8:30:25 PM Central Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes:   > Why do you not like trackers, and other mechanical action organs?   OK, perhaps dislike is not the correct term, but I am having trouble = coming up with the correct term. I just feel that a tracker is less majestic, = less full bodied many times, overly-articulate and chiffy (American and Dutch trackers in this country) and the lack of pistons and expressive divisions = on many make them less flexible and desirable to MY ears.   In addition- the actions on many I have played actually make it MORE difficult to maintain a true legato line. Lastly, they just don't have = the "umph" and guts many Victorian and Romantic Symphonic EPs have. Even later EPs with good voicing can be quite grounded in foundation and warm.   I have always found many trackers too "in your face" and spitty and = chiffy. They have sheen and they have brilliance and they have volume, but where's = the foundation? Where are the tubas and Cornopeans instead of Trommets and Baszuins and Regals?       > It is because the player's technique is so exposed?   I will not say yes here, because with enough practice on one my own = playing is crisp and clear and accurate, and I say that because I have played EPs = for so long now. I am just much more at home and comfortable (and trusting) = of an EP.       Is it because you have not had the opportunity to play one of the many > hundreds that actually have fine actions, as well as stoplists of which = you > would > approve?   I will say yes here, with some reservation. True the Mander at St. = Ignatius Loyola in NYC can play just about anything whether it be repertoire or literature, and play it WELL. It would indeed be an exception in my book. = It is warm, has guts and is very expressive. BUT, too many trackers have little = thin Swell divisions with buzzy reeds and thin screechy mixtures and generally = have four doors right above the organist's head that slam shut when the "swell pedal" is disengaged instead of a roaring, bottled up swell with 16' = Posaunes and real 16' and 8' diapasons V rank Chorus Mixtures and Cornopeans and oceans = of strings and celestes etc.       > I think the list membership would be more inclined to consider = respecting > your opinions if there were some reason(s) given for them.   Do those answers help any? In closing, I wish to say that yes I did have some teachers and fellow organ students try to engrain in my head that = trackers were THE ONLY way to go and THE ONLY organs capable of making music. That =   simply is NOT true. For example, while at the NC School of the Arts in Winston-Salem, we did have a rather nice and largely romantic Fisk, a = Holtkamp Martini practice organ and a baby Fisk practice organ. (Case in point here)? At Salem College down the street, whose organ department merged with ours, = Shirley Recital Hall has a 3 manual Flentrop with said 4 doors right over the = organist's head with ALOT of chiff and very buzzy reeds, Haines Auditorium across the =   hall has a big Holtkamp that isn't much fatter in its sound (again with = buzzy reeds and a wimpy Swell division) and, downstairs, the practice organs = include a Flentrop with a flat pedal board, two more Holtkamp Martini's and a larger = 2 manual Flentrop with more buzzy reeds, spitty flutes and a ruckpositiv. = Now, with all of those GLORIOUS organs, (eh hem), WHY did I want to spend most = of my time practicing at St. Paul's Episcopal on Hillside Street on the big 4 =   manual EM Skinner? Maybe that will better explain how I feel.   -Scott   P.S. - Ironically, Ardmore United Methodist has a Noack that I really did like. It was warm, it was gutsy, it had a very effective Swell box and it = had electric pistons! hee hee   P.P.S. - another example- the church I played for while at NCSA was buying = a new organ. Pipes were out of the question and I was 18-19, so electronic = vs pipe wasnt that big of an issue with me yet. I begged for the Rodgers and = they bought the Johannus. WHY? It was CHEAPER. You know the old expression = "you get what you pay for?" Well, that turned out to be VERY true. = Incidentally, I left and went to a church with a 1920's Casavant...   Scott F. Foppiano Organist and Director of Parish Music Holy Rosary Catholic Church, Memphis, TN In te Domine speravi, non confundar in aeternum.  
(back) Subject: Re: NO ARIAS FOR ORGAN??? Re: Desiree's love of organs From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:36:00 -0800 (PST)   Yes, I completely agree on pieces called arias. However, in apology to = someone that I seemed to have misquote, I will write what a musician told = me in an off-list email. This is to insure against misquoting. Here we go: A Music Dictionary primarily defines an aria as a vocal work. "...98% of the time, an Aria will be a vocal work OR a transcription of a = vocal work...." I was further told that when a lyrical work is written for an instrument = the "...work is an 'air'...it is more often called arioso or air". The = actual term "...aria doesn't necessarily equate to a lyrical piece." The = person who informed me of this states that the "...term is'nt = interchangeable" I hope that the above is not a misquote. I cut and paste the email with = the above information, editing it to suit this message. That's what I was told by a musician/organist when it comes to using = various terms for Music. Some musicans feel that using incorrect "verbage" will lead to: People talking/laughing about that musican's competence/incompetence People not taking that musican seriously People questioning the ligitimacy of that musicians work People sending "backroom messages" about how uneducated someone is So, while I know good and well there are "arias" written for organ, I have = been told that it's probably not the most educated thing to do. OK 've had enough flaming for a week. BUT...at least Scott Foppiano do agree...there are certainly ARIAS for = organ. I can say that I get my tierces in a wad when people say "play that song" = You SING songs.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: My recital from hell From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:40:03 -0800 (PST)   Hey Glenda, Im sure you did a nice job in the event of the disturbance   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
(back) Subject: Glenda's Recital From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:42:36 -0600   Glenda, I think you passed all tests with flying colors!!! Good for you! And sorry Mr. Obnoxious showed up for the recital!   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: W H Y N O T ????? From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:50:49 -0800 (PST)   Hellmuth Wolff?!?!?! What about those stoplists? Not to mention the action. Light, = responsive, expressive, warm, big, french reeds, German reeds, beautiful = flue work. Lots of bells and whistles, even piston sequencers.   ScottFop@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/27/05 8:30:25 PM Central Standard Time, = TubaMagna@aol.com writes:   Why do you not like trackers, and other mechanical action organs?   OK, perhaps dislike is not the correct term, but I am having trouble = coming up with the correct term. I just feel that a tracker is less = majestic, less full bodied many times, overly-articulate and chiffy = (American and Dutch trackers in this country) and the lack of pistons and = expressive divisions on many make them less flexible and desirable to MY = ears.   In addition- the actions on many I have played actually make it MORE = difficult to maintain a true legato line. Lastly, they just don't have = the "umph" and guts many Victorian and Romantic Symphonic EPs have. Even = later EPs with good voicing can be quite grounded in foundation and warm.   I have always found many trackers too "in your face" and spitty and = chiffy. They have sheen and they have brilliance and they have volume, = but where's the foundation? Where are the tubas and Cornopeans instead of = Trommets and Baszuins and Regals?       It is because the player's technique is so exposed?   I will not say yes here, because with enough practice on one my own = playing is crisp and clear and accurate, and I say that because I have = played EPs for so long now. I am just much more at home and comfortable = (and trusting) of an EP.       Is it because you have not had the opportunity to play one of the many hundreds that actually have fine actions, as well as stoplists of which = you would approve?   I will say yes here, with some reservation. True the Mander at St. = Ignatius Loyola in NYC can play just about anything whether it be = repertoire or literature, and play it WELL. It would indeed be an = exception in my book. It is warm, has guts and is very expressive. BUT, = too many trackers have little thin Swell divisions with buzzy reeds and = thin screechy mixtures and generally have four doors right above the = organist's head that slam shut when the "swell pedal" is disengaged = instead of a roaring, bottled up swell with 16' Posaunes and real 16' and = 8' diapasons V rank Chorus Mixtures and Cornopeans and oceans of strings = and celestes etc.       I think the list membership would be more inclined to consider respecting your opinions if there were some reason(s) given for them.   Do those answers help any? In closing, I wish to say that yes I did have = some teachers and fellow organ students try to engrain in my head that = trackers were THE ONLY way to go and THE ONLY organs capable of making = music. That simply is NOT true. For example, while at the NC School of = the Arts in Winston-Salem, we did have a rather nice and largely romantic = Fisk, a Holtkamp Martini practice organ and a baby Fisk practice organ. = (Case in point here)? At Salem College down the street, whose organ = department merged with ours, Shirley Recital Hall has a 3 manual Flentrop = with said 4 doors right over the organist's head with ALOT of chiff and = very buzzy reeds, Haines Auditorium across the hall has a big Holtkamp = that isn't much fatter in its sound (again with buzzy reeds and a wimpy = Swell division) and, downstairs, the practice organs include a Flentrop = with a flat pedal board, two more Holtkamp Martini's and a larger 2 manual = Flentrop with more buzzy reeds, spitty flutes and a ruckpositiv. Now, with all of those GLORIOUS organs, (eh hem), WHY did I = want to spend most of my time practicing at St. Paul's Episcopal on = Hillside Street on the big 4 manual EM Skinner? Maybe that will better = explain how I feel.   -Scott   P.S. - Ironically, Ardmore United Methodist has a Noack that I really did = like. It was warm, it was gutsy, it had a very effective Swell box and it = had electric pistons! hee hee   P.P.S. - another example- the church I played for while at NCSA was buying = a new organ. Pipes were out of the question and I was 18-19, so = electronic vs pipe wasnt that big of an issue with me yet. I begged for = the Rodgers and they bought the Johannus. WHY? It was CHEAPER. You know = the old expression "you get what you pay for?" Well, that turned out to = be VERY true. Incidentally, I left and went to a church with a 1920's = Casavant...   Scott F. Foppiano Organist and Director of Parish Music Holy Rosary Catholic Church, Memphis, TN In te Domine speravi, non confundar in aeternum.     Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net  
(back) Subject: Re: W H Y N O T ????? From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:54:57 -0800 (PST)     SCOTT WROTE: OK, perhaps dislike is not the correct term, but I am having trouble = coming up with the correct term. I just feel that a tracker is less = majestic, less full bodied many times, overly-articulate and chiffy = (American and Dutch trackers in this country) and the lack of pistons and = expressive divisions on many make them less flexible and desirable to MY = ears....   Scott, your post as to WHY NOT???? really does clear up a lot. It was = really nice to see you state why. I can also say that Sebastian asked some = very good questions.   I ABHORED trackers until Studying at PLU for a while. The Fritts has over = 50 levels of multiple memory, 12 generals, 6 divisionals/per division, a = large expressive swell with a Vox, a sequencer forward/backward (which was = SOOOO fun , because one could Set your crescendo), Tropmets 16, 8, 4 on = Great, 8, 4 on Swell. To me, it was the instrument that opened my mined to = trackers. I did not like them for the very reasons you said you mostly = don't. The only one I had heard in person or played was a 1987 Reiger. I = hated it!   You're great to say, so candidly, why you don't like them, and to say = which trackers you actually like.       --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
(back) Subject: RE: Holy Name Flentrop in Chicago From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:56:02 -0600   The room was terrible before either the Flentrop or the Casavant were = glints in anyone's eyes.   Michael - who was assistant organist there when the mongrel Wangerin, Johnson, kitchen sink was there.     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Malcolm Wechsler Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 2:17 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Holy Name Flentrop in Chicago   Dear Ron, Alan, and List,   I never did get in to Holy Name Cathedral during Chicago OHS, for some reason, but my understanding has always been that the problem with the Flentrop was not a Flentrop problem at all, but rather the addition of = great   areas of carpeting between the time the Organ was scaled and built and the =   time of its installation. Does someone know another version of that story?      
(back) Subject: Re: NO ARIAS FOR ORGAN??? Re: Desiree's love of organs From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:57:12 -0500     On Feb 27, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Desiree' wrote:   > > Some musicans feel that using incorrect "verbage" will lead to:... > People not taking that musican seriously     Actually "verbage" is itself an incorrect piece of "verbiage."   By the way, Flor Peeters' "Aria" was not originally written for organ; according to John Henderson's Dictionary, it comes from a trumpet sonata.   Thirdly, some French baroque organ pieces are intensely operatic, meant to imitate an operatic aria--particularly tierces en taille.     Randy Runyon    
(back) Subject: Re: W H Y N O T ????? From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:33:26 +0800   Macintosh? Windows? LINUX? ... people have preferences.   I tend to side with "whatever gets the job done" or "whatever is available."   Isn't this the same holy war the E. P. Biggs and V. Fox waged upon each oth= er?     ----- Original Message ----- From: TubaMagna@aol.com > Scott: >=20 > Why do you not like trackers, and other mechanical action organs? >=20 > It is because the player's technique is so exposed? > Is it because you have not had the opportunity to play one of the many > hundreds that actually have fine actions, as well as stoplists of=20 > which you would > approve? >=20 > I think the list membership would be more inclined to consider respecting > your opinions if there were some reason(s) given for them. -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: music list for Sunday, Feb 27 From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:46:34 -0800   Prelude: "on Henley" Seth Bingham (followed by improvisation since they = did not start the service until 10:05 - I hate it when that happens!)   Entrance Hymn: "When Peace Like a River" from LEVAS II   Trisagion (sorry, can't remember which one it was!)   Gospel Procession: "Taize Chant" from WLP (Veni, sancte spiritus)   Offertory Anthem (today's offertory was presented by the musicians of our Fijian Community - one of their best yet! Followed by organ improvisation and Doxology (old 100th)   Sanctus: Schubert, from The Hymnal, 1982 Fraction: "Lamb of God" from LEVAS II (sorry, it is the only one with a printed pedal part - I have only been back three weeks and my memory is failing me!)   Communion voluntaries (on piano) Improvisations on "Deep River," and "I'm Just a Poor Wayfarin' Stranger"   Post-Communion Hymn (on piano) "Give Thanks" (sorry, forget the composer - it's a common "renewal" song, a good one!)   <running back up to the organ!>   Closing Hymn: "I'm Pressing On Toward Higher Ground" LEVAS II (following the printed performance instructions in LEVAS, I played any pair of connected 8th notes as a dotted 8th, followed by a 16th, kind of like = French Classic performance practice indicates - it was a much stronger musical statement and nobody noticed the change!)   The postlude was to have been "Grand Choeur in C" by Theodore Salome, but = I decided at the last minute it was too formal and did an improvisation on "Hyfrydol." I was thinking of the text "Love divine..." but managed to get crawled in a playful way by those who were hearing "Alleluia, sing to Jesus!"   I had a 100.7 fever last night, and every bone in my body was aching. My knees were killing me and I could not put weight down on my palms to go up or down the gallery steps - arthritis at age 42! However, I was much = better this morning.   We had a bad fire in our four-plex and while our apt was spared other than serious smoke damage, we lost a car (three cars totally burned to a = crisp!) Since it was only a 15 year old Ford Tempo, and not my beloved 1975 Cadillac, I can live with loosing the car. However, we just got a very expensive new deep-space telescope, and that was still in the trunk. The fire happened about two weeks ago, so I am putting this sudden attack of arthritis down to post-traumatic stress syndrome, as I have not been that upset about the fire, everyone and their pets are OK, so things are just things...yeah, right!   You can see why my mind is spinning about what to do about our services. They look VERY strange on paper and in the bulletin, but somehow the = effect is very fulfilling. My rector wants the "4th" Sunday to be different, say with an ensemble in the near future. I just tried to go with the water imagery from the readings and hymns of a Gospel nature as that is the = style the Fijians favor. Getting from the Fijian anthem (everyone clapping = along) took a longer than usual improvisation before the doxology, but it worked out OK. Thank God for improvisation!   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: My recital from hell From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:50:14 +0800   Glenda,=20   Well, I was right on the standing room only part. ... I just didn't think s= omeone would stand that close (and come back for seconds after being asked = not to be there.) I'm glad for you that the place was packed. Sorry that yo= u were harassed and shaken. Still, I'm sure the crowed was pleased with you= r performance.=20   Please don't let it be your last recital. Someday I should hope to hear you= r music ... wouldn't want it to have to be from a bad boot-legged video.   Best of luck in your new partnership!   ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com>   > I woke up to rain this morning and thought, oh well, no big crowd to > play for. Wrong - the place was packed. I was warmly welcomed - my own > family came to hear me play. The church was full of familiar and > friendly faces - I was home.   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: music list for Sunday, Feb 27 From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:52:27 -0600   Hi! Thanks for the list. It sounds really exciting. If I'm ever in your area, I know where I'll go to church!     Blessings, Beau Surratt Director of Music and Organist First United Lutheran Church, ELCA 6705 Hohman Ave. Hammond, IN 46324      
(back) Subject: Re: My recital from hell From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:17:55 EST   In a message dated 2/27/2005 8:43:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, runyonr@muohio.edu writes:   I wonder if perhaps the mysterious video cameraman was sent as payback by your soon-to-be-former boss.       Glenda and all, I couldn't help but raise Randy's question, myself. It seems so = perfectly obvious. A local television station would at the very least, to avoid a lawsuit, = have "cleared" permission with the sponsors of the recital to come in and = shoot even a few minutes' film in order to capture enough for a 30-45 second = evening news spot. In addition to capturing Ms. Sutton's image and her art-in-the-making, = there would have been copyright matters to clear for broadcast. There's a stinking rat in what occurred! Personally, I'd not hesitate at all in finding out - from anyone present = - even if it took the next two weeks to do so, WHO this perpetrator was - = and who paid him to be there. My first step would be - "did anyone present = capture a photo of the videographer?" - - and go from there. (Let's hope someone = did). Sue the beans out of him, Glenda!! Signed, 'Angry in Missouri' - on your behalf Dale Rider, MSacredMus, CAGO Independence, MO Organist, Composer/Arranger and self-proclaimed Justice Advocate  
(back) Subject: Re: Ernest M. Skinner From: "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:30:27 -0500   Justin wrote: >The epitaph on his tombstone reads: > >Ernest Martin Skinner >Great American Organbuilder > >I believe that sums it up.   I would have to add: The Jury Is Still Out   Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA     -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.1 - Release Date: 2/27/2005      
(back) Subject: uncalled for!!!! was: RE: Ernest M. Skinner From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:39:36 -0800   FOLKS! LET'S PUT THIS ENTIRE SUBJECT TO REST FOR A WHILE, PLEEZE! DAVID, TIM????   Respectfully, Randy Terry     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org On Behalf Of Cole Subject: Re: Ernest M. Skinner   >The epitaph on his tombstone reads: >Ernest Martin Skinner >Great American Organbuilder >I believe that sums it up.   I would have to add: The Jury Is Still Out   Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA            
(back) Subject: Re: music list for Sunday, Feb 27 From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:54:45 -0800 (PST)   Immanuel UCC Prelude- Selections from The Augsburg Library: Lent (Titles escape me now...it's 1 AM monday) Processional Hymn: Open Now The Gates of Beauty Anthem- Go Not Far From Me---Zingarelli Sermon Hymn- Come Thou Fount Postlude: Improvisation on Catholic Theme     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com