PipeChat Digest #5056 - Tuesday, January 4, 2005
 
Re: Scholarship Question on Ornaments
  by "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net>
Re: Forgotten and/or lesser-played treasures WAS Questions (2 part discus
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Andrew Henderson, Sunday at St. Ignatius (x-posted)
  by "Malcolm Wechsler \(Mander Organs\)" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05
  by "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com>
Re: Season of Epiphany
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
RE: Hymns for January
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: Season of Epiphany
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Ornaments
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Hymns for January
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Hymns for January
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Hymns for January
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Hymns for January
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Alleluias in Lent!!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Scholarship Question on Ornaments From: "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:21:07 -0600   In keyboard music other than organ, there was no long-ringing tone = available (like our modern grand piano). Even in the bass, a harpsichord is = basically a one-time "plunk-and-it's-over". Clavichord has the theoretical tone extender of a key-pressure-controlled tremolo, but notes are still short. = To give the impression of a long note, especially in the melody where simple repetition is not acceptable, they "decorated" the melody note for three = or four beats. The listener thinks he heard a whole note in the melody! Of course, on organ one can hold a melody note for four - or forty - beats. = But in an age given to guilding lillies, such simplicity wouldn't serve, and = it all gets decorated. In an accompaniment, where repitition and repeated patterns are acceptable, they used the Alberti bass figure when their instruments couldn't hold a long chord. It keeps the series of short = plinks flowing, and gives the impression of a smooth steady accompaniment, hence = no fancy decorations were required - until the lower part had some melodic content.   Do I get a Doctorate too? A dis-honorable one will do me fine! = Kip in MO ----- Original Message ----- From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Scholarship Question on Ornaments     > Scott: > > I always like to get at the root, and the question is not how? but why? > If you can adequately answer the question WHY? Then you will know > the answer to how. Since ornaments spring up during the Baroque > period, there has to be an underlying reason musicians needed, > yes needed to play ornaments to fool the ear. I believe someone > could receive high marks on a doctoral dissertation. Instruments > were tuned to comma mean tone schemes by then, and many > musicians were pushing the envelope to play music in more than > the common keys. My theory is that the ornament purely and simply > covered an interval that may have sounded sour, but fooling the ear > with trills and mordents saved the day! > > Now you also have to ask the question, If Equal temperament had > always been used, the next question would have to be, would > ornaments have developed with the same amount of use, or not at all. > I seriously doubt it. Ornaments are nice enhancements But they > certainly wouldn't have developed unless keys were chosen with > pure thirds such as quarter comma mean tone and bored musicians > wanting to play in all keys. > > IMHO one would have to live with an instrument so tuned and the desire > to transport your music to distant keys, and covering sour notes with > a cute little trill or mordent depending upon the length of the note > to be treated. > > Food for thought. It won't come from books, but from experiencing > first hand the instruments and tuning schemes of the period. > > Ron Severin > > PS i think an honorary Doctorate should be awarded to me at least > for this insight. > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Forgotten and/or lesser-played treasures WAS Questions (2 part discus) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:23:27 -0800 (PST)   I do many pieces from the Owen colletions. One can only imagine the = bigger/FF registered pieces played on a Jardine with a BIG 16' Trombone in = the pedal. The Thayer Allegro Meastoso is one like that. The lyrical = pieces just always seem to ask for beautiful 8' Stopt Diapasons, = Claribel's, Hautboys etc. As far as a recording of the pieces, I am = interested in doing somethig like that myself. However, friends/mentors = (some on the list) are encouraging me to wait until I am done with school = to do the "fluff", as it will get me further. Unless someone beats me to = it, it's a goal. BUT, I don't like all of the pieces, so only select ones = would be there. What are some other collections that have nice, yet lesser-played pieces ? (In closing, OHS Just came out with a collection of the magazine Thayer = edited. Im sure some of those pieces are nice as well.)   TDH   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page =96 Try My Yahoo!
(back) Subject: Andrew Henderson, Sunday at St. Ignatius (x-posted) From: "Malcolm Wechsler \(Mander Organs\)" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:27:11 -0500   Dear Lists,   I have stolen one of the press releases from St. Ignatius Loyola in New York, to post to these lists. I hope some of you might be near enough to = New York to make it at 4:00 on Sunday. I have known this instrument since it = was just a bunch of creative brain cells buzzing around excitedly on both = sides of the Atlantic. All of this, in a superb acoustical space, has wrought an =   instrument, English but with a very French accent (as one critic noted), that caused Olivier Latry to make it one of the three instruments upon = which he played his six-concert complete Messiaen cycle a couple of years ago. = He wanted an Organ capable of serving the music, in a fine acoustic, and in a =   visually distinguished space. The other venues were St. Paul's Cathedral, London, and his home church, Notre Dame de Paris, where he also recorded = the cycle.   I have not known Andrew Henderson since he was "just a bunch of creative brain cells," but I have known him since he first came to St. Ignatius as Assistant Organist, while working on a Doctorate at Juilliard, and I have heard him play Organ literature from many periods and in many disparate styles. His playing is riveting in them all.   After the recital, there is always a wonderful Organ demonstration up in = the gallery, with a chance to crawl around through the instrument. (Unfortunately, I have run out of the T shirts that say "I made it to the top of the pipes.") It's still worth it. Bring cameras.   I hope to see you there.   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com * * * * * * * Organist Andrew Henderson in a Performance of Olivier Messiaen's La Nativit=E9 du Seigneur on St. Ignatius Loyola's N.P. Mander Organ   On Sunday, January 9th, 2005 at 4:00 pm, Andrew Henderson, Assistant Organist at St. Ignatius Loyola, performs Olivier Messiaen's La Nativit=E9 = du Seigneur. Completed in 1935 and considered Messiaen's first epic work for organ, the nine movements of La Nativit=E9 are Messiaen's poetic interpretations of the biblical texts surrounding the mystery of Christ's Incarnation. Messiaen's characteristic tonal colors will be brought to = life on the renowned 5,000-pipe Mander organ at St. Ignatius Loyola.   Bea Scott-Hansen will read Messiaen's selected texts in French, followed = by the English translation, to accompany each movement.   All St. Ignatius organ recitals feature the acclaimed N.P. Mander pipe organ-"a major landmark in the city's concert landscape" (The New = Yorker)-in a stunning array of styles and genres, and are enhanced by the presence of = a large-screen video projection unit underwritten by the Mary Duke Biddle Foundation. Audience members are invited to a tour and demonstration of = the organ at the conclusion of the recital.   Tickets are $20 at the door, $15 for students and those 65 and over. Advance-sale purchases are $16/$12; call 212.288.2520 for more = information.     The New York Theatre Wire calls Sacred Music in a Sacred Space "one of the =   highlights of the Manhattan musical season." All concerts take place at = the Church of St. Ignatius Loyola, 980 Park Avenue at 84th Street, New York City. The Church is easily reached via the 4/5/6 subway lines or buses on Madison, Lexington, and Fifth Avenues, and 86th Street. The church is accessible to the physically challenged. Season subscriptions are = available at a substantial savings over single tickets; senior citizen / student = rates are also available. Subscriptions and single tickets are available by calling the concert information line at 212.288.2520; VISA, Mastercard, American Express and Discover accepted. Online brochures and ticket orders =   are available through the Church's website at www.saintignatiusloyola.org. =   Inquiries may also be sent to concerts@saintignatiusloyola.org.     --------------------- Sunday, January 9, 2005 at 4:00 p.m. Andrew Henderson, organist Church of St. Ignatius Loyola 980 Park Avenue, New York, New York   PROGRAM Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992): La Nativit=E9 du Seigneur i. La Vierge et l'Enfant ii. Les bergers iii. Desseins =E9ternels iv. Le verbe v. Les enfants de Dieu vi. Les anges vii. Jesus accepte la souffrance viii. Les mages ix. Dieu parmi nous     BIO   Andrew Henderson is a doctoral candidate at the Juilliard School as the recipient of a C. V. Starr Foundation doctoral fellowship. Since = September 2001 he has been the Assistant Organist at the Church of St. Ignatius Loyola, New York City, where he is actively involved in the renowned liturgical music and concert programs. As an adjunct member of the = faculty at Westminster Choir College in Princeton, New Jersey, he has taught graduate courses in organ literature in addition to being an organ instructor at Teachers College of Columbia University.   Mr. Henderson, a native of Thorold, Ontario, holds degrees in music from Cambridge University in England and Yale University. At Cambridge he held the position of Organ Scholar at Clare College, Cambridge, where - in addition to playing and conducting numerous choral services during term - = he participated in BBC broadcasts, recordings and tours throughout Europe and =   North America with the renowned Clare College Choir. At Yale he completed his graduate studies in organ performance on a full scholarship from the Yale Institute of Sacred Music, where he was Marquand Chapel Organist at = the Yale Divinity School and the recipient of prizes in organ performance and academic studies.   In August 2002 Andrew was one of four candidates chosen to compete in the final round of the international organ competition Grand Prix de Chartres held in Chartres Cathedral, France. In July 2003 he won first prize in the =   biennial National Organ Playing Competition sponsored by the Royal = Canadian College of Organists in Ottawa. As well as performing recitals in St. Paul's Cathedral and Westminster Abbey, London, and at the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C., he has been heard as an accompanist on CBC broadcasts.   Andrew has earned the Fellowship diploma of the Royal Canadian College of Organists, winning three prizes, and is an Associate of the Royal Conservatory of Music, Toronto. His teachers have included John Tuttle, Barrie Cabena, David Sanger, Thomas Murray and John Weaver.   * * *      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:37:01 -0500   IMHO, yes. This Sunday is the Feast of the Baptism. In the gospel reading, Jesus is all grown up and about to become aware of his purpose in life, so to speak. As the "handmaid" of the liturgy, music supports the liturgy by staying relevant or related to the lectionary. David Baker   On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 12:20 PM, PipeChat wrote:   > Subject: Hymns for January > From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> > Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:31:22 -0000 > > I'm next playing at the vigil mass at my church on Saturday. Although > the > Epiphany will already have been, does anyone think that it would be > inappropriate for me to play Christmas Carols, such as 'We Three > Kings' and > 'See Amid the Winter's Snow'? I am just asking because I am having a > disagreement about this with the Priest. > > Thanks, > > DS    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:37:58 -0500   Who played? David Baker   On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 12:20 PM, PipeChat wrote:   > Subject: Looking for Richard Purvis "Four Prayers in Tone" > From: "T B" <maestrotim@hotmail.com> > Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:53:12 +0000 > > Last week, I was fortunate to hear a New Year's Eve organ recital at > the > Christian Scientist Mother Church Aeolian-Skinner organ, here in > Boston. > <snip>    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:40:11 -0500   In the RC church, the sundays after the Epiphany are called "ordinary", from the word "ordinal" or numbered. In the anglican church, I think they are called sundays AFTER epiphany. I don't think it is correct to think of epiphany as a season. Do you have support for a contrary view? David Baker   On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 12:20 PM, PipeChat wrote:   > epiphany is a season, not just a day. at our church, we'll be > celebrating it > until lent.    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5055 - 01/04/05 From: "David Baker" <dgb137@mac.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:41:32 -0500   "On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love sent to me .... " Christmas is a season of twelve days, concluding on the eve of Epiphany. What is ludicrous about that? I think it is ludicrous to sing Christmas music during Advent! David Baker   On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 12:20 PM, PipeChat wrote:   > But do you not think that it is ludicrous to say Christmas is over by > the > 8th of January? > > Dom    
(back) Subject: Re: Season of Epiphany From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:43:03 EST   The Season of Epiphany technically lasts for five weeks, until Sunday February 6, which is the Sunday prior to Ash Wednesday. However, I think = in the Roman Church, this coming Sunday is techincally the First Sunday in = Ordinary Time, whereas Episcopalians and other Protestant churches are all still = celebrating Epiphany and will continue to observe Epiphany until Lent.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: RE: Hymns for January From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:03:13 -0500   In an RC church? Yup. Twelve days of Christmas and all that. Epiphany = is on January 6, Baptism of Our Lord is on the 9th this year. After that, then = Epiphany music (NOT the three kings, but the theme of Epiphany, which is LIGHT) is appropriate till Ash Wed.   --Shirley   On 4 Jan 2005 at 16:07, Dominic Scullion expounded:   > Thanks. > > But do you not think that it is ludicrous to say Christmas is over by > the 8th of January? > > Dom      
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:03:13 -0500   Is not your church celebrating The Baptism of Our Lord this Sunday? = Perhaps that's the focus you should be looking toward.....   --Shirley      
(back) Subject: Re: Season of Epiphany From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:30:21 EST   Monty wrote:   "... [I]n the Roman Church, this coming Sunday is techincally the First Sunday in Ordinary Time, whereas Episcopalians and other Protestant churches are all still = celebrating   Epiphany and will continue to observe Epiphany until Lent."   I'm not sure we're necessarily "celebrating" epiphany, but technically I = do believe we Anglicans call the Sundays after Epiphany the "(Number) Sunday = after Epiphany", rather than "in" or "of" Epiphany, just as we do with the Sundays after Pentecost.   At St. John's, (Episcopal) we tend to use the term "Ordinary Time" rather than "Nth Sunday After....", though both terms are used by us pretty much interchangably (our seasonal worship guides refer to "Ordinary Time", yet = our weekly insert usually refers to "Sunday After"--perhaps because the latter designation is the official one used in ECUSA). Of course, "Ordinary" = simply refers to the numbered series of Sundays "after", so I suppose they are truly interchangable. Our use is probably a holdover from past times where we = did EVERYTHING Rome did except submit to the Pope (or subscribe to the liturgical = "renewal" of Vatican II).   Pax, Bill H. SJE Boston        
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:25:12 +0000   On 1/4/05 3:31 PM, "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> wrote:   > Although the Epiphany will already have been, does anyone think that it w= ould > be inappropriate for me to play Christmas Carols, such as =8CWe Three Kings= =B9 and > =8CSee Amid the Winter=B9s Snow=B9?   I think it would be THOROUGHLY appropriate. And I=B9m a fuss-budget about such things.   You=B9re still within the octave of a feast of some rank!   Nevertheless, I=B9m NOT the priest.   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:39:10 +0000   On 1/4/05 3:31 PM, "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> wrote:   > I=B9m next playing at the vigil mass at my church on Saturday. Although the > Epiphany will already have been, does anyone think that it would be > inappropriate for me to play Christmas Carols, such as =8CWe Three Kings=B9 a= nd > =8CSee Amid the Winter=B9s Snow=B9?   Well, Christmas Day will be past. The Christmas Season will be over. But the Christmas CYCLE of Advent/Christmas/Epiphany surely runs until Shrove Tuesday. Or at least, some say, through the Presentation on 2 February. And anyway, surely =B3We Three Kings=B2 isn=B9t Christmas music anyway, but an Epiphany carol. (The other one, I don=B9t know.)   Nevertheless, give it up while you=B9re at least =B3even=B2 (as in =B3deep and cris= p and=B2). =20   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 14:45:18 -0500   Isn't it tragic that we are not supposed to sing in celebration of the birth of Christ except at the very few times proscribed by some official centuries ago?   I don't know about all of you, but I have mellowed in my old age. If a group of people in my church felt like celebrating the birth of Jesus by singing a Christmas Carol in February, I would say "play on!"   Most congregants could care less.       Jim           On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:25:12 +0000 Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> writes: On 1/4/05 3:31 PM, "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> wrote:     Although the Epiphany will already have been, does anyone think that it would be inappropriate for me to play Christmas Carols, such as =91We = Three Kings=92 and =91See Amid the Winter=92s Snow=92?     I think it would be THOROUGHLY appropriate. And I=92m a fuss-budget about such things.   You=92re still within the octave of a feast of some rank!   Nevertheless, I=92m NOT the priest.   Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:02:29 -0500   For what it is worth,   When I produced my radio show, "Voicings", I always had a "Christmas Special" on the nearest Thursday to June 25th - simply to remind my listeners that the Birth of Jesus Christ should be celebrated all year = round!   I played Christmas Carols, Christmas organ music, and parts of the various =   Christmas Oratorios that I had available in either the Radio Station's library or my own collection.   Bob Conway (xdj)   At 02:45 PM 1/4/2005, Jim wrote: >Isn't it tragic that we are not supposed to sing in celebration of the >birth of Christ except at the very few times proscribed by some official >centuries ago? > >I don't know about all of you, but I have mellowed in my old age. If a >group of people in my church felt like celebrating the birth of Jesus by >singing a Christmas Carol in February, I would say "play on!" > >Most congregants could care less. > > > >Jim      
(back) Subject: Ornaments From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:32:13 EST   Hi Kip:   I guess we got people to thinking outside the box, and that's a good thing. Every time this subject come up some student is cowering in his closet wondering about the correct execution of ornaments. Who puts this fear into them in the first place. Hey, two dishonorable doctorates works for me. Now who wrote Bach's eight Little Preludes and Fugues, Gigue Fugue etc. Bach couldn't have written them, but His name is on them. Amazing! This person ANONYMOUS must have lived a long time. Several Centuries in fact. Shall we proclaim he wrote them for another dishonorable doctorate. It's amazing again that none of the great composers specifically had one. Should we correct this also? Was this an English invention at Oxford? Several Virginalists seem to have one. I think I just coined a new word.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:02:01 EST   Jim wrote:   "Isn't it tragic that we are not supposed to sing in celebration of the = birth of Christ except at the very few times proscribed by some official = centuries ago?"   If it were "proscribed", it would have been banned, prohibited. Roman, Anglican and Lutheran prayerbooks and hymnals give quite a bit of = attention to the Incarnation throughout the liturgical year, especially in the broad = selection of Eucharistic Prayers. Hymns such as "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" (suitable as a Communion/Post-Communion Hymn in all three traditions at = any Eucharist at any time) speak to the Incarnation and are common to all = three traditions. At least Roman and Anglican (and Orthodox) Traditions = recognize the early Ecumenical Councils that brought us that "Centuries Ago" stuff--brought to = you by the same people that brought you "The Bible"--the Canon of = Scripture--as we know it. It would be probably easier to name an "official" that decided = the date of Christmas than it would be to name everyone that attended the Ecumenical Councils that resulted in our Bible--and don't freak, but they = were all CATHOLIC. "I don't know about all of you, but I have mellowed in my old age. If a group of people in my church felt like celebrating the birth of Jesus by = singing a Christmas Carol in February, I would say "play on!" "   See my reference to "Let All Mortal Flesh" and Prayerbooks in the above response. "Most congregants could care less."   To that, I would say that "Most Congregants" should receive better = Christian Education--both as Adults and as Children.   In traditions that celebrate the Eucharist with regularity and solemnity, = the Incarnation and Christ's Oblation, his Sacrifice, is celebrated often--regardless of what hymns may be sung.   Again, my uptight, Anglican tuppence-worth.   Pax, Bill H.   Pax, Bill H. SJE Boston    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 17:32:30 -0600   *B*ill wrote:   > Hymns such as "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" (suitable as a > Communion/Post-Communion Hymn in [Roman, Anglican and Lutheran] at any > Eucharist at any time)   to which I would note that in my own small universe, I don't know of any Catholics, Lutherans, or Anglicans who would use LAMFKS unaltered during Lent, because of the Alleluias in the third or forth stanza.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:43:09 EST   No, one would omit that. Clearly.   Pax, Bh.  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:48:35 +0000   On 1/4/05 11:02 PM, "DERREINETOR@aol.com" <DERREINETOR@aol.com> wrote:   > Again, my uptight, Anglican tuppence-worth. > Absolutely. And keep it that way. Superb post, Bill.   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:56:07 +0000   On 1/4/05 11:32 PM, "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> wrote:   > *B*ill wrote: > >> Hymns such as "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" (suitable as a >> Communion/Post-Communion Hymn in [Roman, Anglican and Lutheran] at any >> Eucharist at any time) > > to which I would note that in my own small universe, I don't know of any > Catholics, Lutherans, or Anglicans who would use LAMFKS unaltered during = Lent, > because of the Alleluias in the third or forth stanza. > > ns > Nor do I. But if somebody's really hyperscrupulous about it, we can = always substitute "Kyrieleis." It works.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns for January From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:00:12 EST   Alan,   That's what we'd do at St. John's. Besides, one COULD get away with "alleluia" on Sundays during Lent as they are "Sundays IN Lent", not = "Lenten Sundays", as you well know. They are feasts of the Resurrection.   touchee, Bill H.  
(back) Subject: Alleluias in Lent!! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:13:47 +0000   On 1/5/05 12:00 AM, "DERREINETOR@aol.com" <DERREINETOR@aol.com> wrote:   > That's what we'd do at St. John's. Besides, one COULD get away with "alle= luia" > on Sundays during Lent as they are "Sundays IN Lent", not "Lenten Sundays= ", as > you well know.   Right. Though generally we do not use =B3Alleluia=B2 even on Sundays in Lent. (Perhaps too subtle a distinction?)   Alan