PipeChat Digest #5079 - Thursday, January 13, 2005
 
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Tonal Styles
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Tonal Styles
  by "Alex Hendrickson" <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Tonal Styles
  by "Alex Hendrickson" <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com>
*ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Tonal Styles
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Tonal Styles
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
RE: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:22:11 -0600   Good Morning, Ron:   You wrote:   > If you really like that stuff, fine I will support your right to it, but > don't be condescending, like I should get down and get with it > and just get modern. I prefer old fashioned, tried and true. What > we really have here is church busting, tradition busting, and I > have no use for it. I don't want to hear styles that remind me > of stuff I hear on radio all week. I desire the sublime rather than > the ridiculous.   At the very core of this, as you have beautifully expressed the contemporary situation, is the logical result of the Revolt that took place in the mid-1960s. The people who Revolted stated that they were going to tear down the "establishement." Pick whatever authority that exercised any control over any part of their lives, . . . their objective was to tear it down and fix it with something new, . . . of their own design.   Among those who were to be torn down were "anyone over 35," the Government(s), the Church, the Pope, the Bishop, the Priest(s), the Pastor(s), the Evangelists, the Bible, the influence of Church tradition and history, etc., and most of all God Himself. They rose on the banner of: "God is dead."   That group of people are now in control of our churches. They are tearing down, or have torn down, the traditions of our churches, and the replacement for "music" is this style we call Contemporary Christian Music (CCM), which is about as complex/simplistic as the typical TV jingle advertising some new product.   I do not think we can blame The Church, especially those with a reasonable line of authority from top to bottom, without accepting the influence of those from the 1960s Revolt now being the establishment in The Church. I also believe we have not seen the end of this movement, and that's the bad news.   There are pockets of lively traditional music, much of it with recent arrangements and worthy creatively new compositions in acceptable traditional styles.   I am hopeful that this will ultimately prevail as the "deviation into CCM" wears off in another generation.   F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Styles From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:37:10 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Richard Burt is quite right.   Like all "styles" they are but a rough guide to the universe.   Baroque?   What baroque?   North German Baroque perhaps? Schnitger etc   South German Baroque? Silbermann (who put pedals to French Baroque organs)   Dutch Baroque? Broadly voiced, generous scales very full flutes   French Baroque? The coloured tones of Cliquot   Spanish Baroque? Very flute-like Principals and barking reeds   Italian Baroque? Bright and chirpy, but of no great power   English Baroque? Schmidt, Harris or Snetzler....the choice is yours. (Think German, Italian & Dutch)   Late Southern German Baroque - Holzey etc   Early romantic baroque? Bit of a misnomer, but as late as 1850, the Dutch and Germans were still building essentially baroque instruments, but with more power.   The list goes on...and on....and on.....   "Styles" are what organ historians love so much, but in reality, there are as many "styles" as there are organ builders.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK (Playing neo-baroque in Dutch baroque style, but made in the UK using UK/Dutch pipework).   --- "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> wrote:   > Hello, Alex: > > When you allow only these "styles," you imply that > musical > style resides exclusively within the liturgical > church traditions.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250  
(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Styles From: "Alex Hendrickson" <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:43:50 -0600   I don't normally reply to people who just start making non-sense of my worthwhile questions, but here goes....   If you believe Richard is right, that's fine, but you must not have read my post close enough, he is severely mistaken in thinking that I was speaking on the subject of the different musical compositional styles, like as to whether the song (no matter what instrument it was played on) sounded more French, German or this or that...... It was not that, he's wrong, I was speaking on the tonal designs that are present in organs these days, the different designs that make the organs sound different from others.   FYI, you're wrong, there are not that many general styles, each style can be summarized easily... If you wish to concur, I'd appreciate YOUR list of all current tonal styles, if you have a theory, whether it be correct or not, you must have the legitimate info to back it up....   BTW, Nobody appreciates a smartallic or a know-it-all,   ~Alex     On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:37:10 -0800 (PST), Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hello, > > Richard Burt is quite right. > > Like all "styles" they are but a rough guide to the > universe. > > Baroque? > > What baroque? > > North German Baroque perhaps? Schnitger etc > > South German Baroque? Silbermann (who put pedals to > French Baroque organs) > > Dutch Baroque? Broadly voiced, generous scales very > full flutes > > French Baroque? The coloured tones of Cliquot > > Spanish Baroque? Very flute-like Principals and > barking reeds > > Italian Baroque? Bright and chirpy, but of no great > power > > English Baroque? Schmidt, Harris or Snetzler....the > choice is yours. (Think German, Italian & Dutch) > > Late Southern German Baroque - Holzey etc > > Early romantic baroque? Bit of a misnomer, but as > late as 1850, the Dutch and Germans were still > building essentially baroque instruments, but with > more power. > > The list goes on...and on....and on..... > > "Styles" are what organ historians love so much, but > in reality, there are as many "styles" as there are > organ builders. > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK (Playing neo-baroque in Dutch > baroque style, but made in the UK using UK/Dutch > pipework). > > --- "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> wrote: > > > Hello, Alex: > > > > When you allow only these "styles," you imply that > > musical > > style resides exclusively within the liturgical > > church traditions. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >     -- Alex Hendrickson   St. Paul's RC Church, Johnston City, Illinois St. Joseph's RC Church, Benton, Illinois  
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:51:18 EST   Dear Richard:   You nailed it! Any Catholic Church today that indulges in this Contempo atmosphere should remove from it's stanchions the word ROMAN and substitute Schismatic American Revolutionary before the word catholic yes with a small "c". Also don't bother to mention names of the Holy Saints or any of the various titles for God. I'm sure they are not happy either. I've read the Vatican II guidelines from cover to cover. There's nothing in there to cause the present developments at all. Read it like I did, You'll find everything ROMAN, tradition based. The real problem are the yearly congresses such as at Anaheim Convention Center which promote the opposite of Roman Catholicism. it's heresy pure and simple. The Church, it's properties, institutions of higher learning including seminaries, have become dens of vipers, unbecoming the FATHER'S HOUSE. The selling of St. Ann's Cathedral in NYC is a new case in point. It was true Roman Catholic and had to be eliminated. Why? Because the Tridentine Mass was said and honored there. These people are really getting bold.   I have a right to rant because I've been disenfranchised.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Styles From: "Alex Hendrickson" <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:22:45 -0600   So, I'll ask once again, does anybody know of any other tonal styles of organ design that I have not listed above???   Alex     On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:43:50 -0600, Alex Hendrickson <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't normally reply to people who just start making non-sense of my > worthwhile questions, but here goes.... > > If you believe Richard is right, that's fine, but you must not have > read my post close enough, he is severely mistaken in thinking that I > was speaking on the subject of the different musical compositional > styles, like as to whether the song (no matter what instrument it was > played on) sounded more French, German or this or that...... It was > not that, he's wrong, I was speaking on the tonal designs that are > present in organs these days, the different designs that make the > organs sound different from others. > > FYI, you're wrong, there are not that many general styles, each style > can be summarized easily... If you wish to concur, I'd appreciate YOUR > list of all current tonal styles, if you have a theory, whether it be > correct or not, you must have the legitimate info to back it up.... > > BTW, Nobody appreciates a smartallic or a know-it-all, > > ~Alex > > > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:37:10 -0800 (PST), Colin Mitchell > <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Richard Burt is quite right. > > > > Like all "styles" they are but a rough guide to the > > universe. > > > > Baroque? > > > > What baroque? > > > > North German Baroque perhaps? Schnitger etc > > > > South German Baroque? Silbermann (who put pedals to > > French Baroque organs) > > > > Dutch Baroque? Broadly voiced, generous scales very > > full flutes > > > > French Baroque? The coloured tones of Cliquot > > > > Spanish Baroque? Very flute-like Principals and > > barking reeds > > > > Italian Baroque? Bright and chirpy, but of no great > > power > > > > English Baroque? Schmidt, Harris or Snetzler....the > > choice is yours. (Think German, Italian & Dutch) > > > > Late Southern German Baroque - Holzey etc > > > > Early romantic baroque? Bit of a misnomer, but as > > late as 1850, the Dutch and Germans were still > > building essentially baroque instruments, but with > > more power. > > > > The list goes on...and on....and on..... > > > > "Styles" are what organ historians love so much, but > > in reality, there are as many "styles" as there are > > organ builders. > > > > Regards, > > > > Colin Mitchell UK (Playing neo-baroque in Dutch > > baroque style, but made in the UK using UK/Dutch > > pipework). > > > > --- "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > Hello, Alex: > > > > > > When you allow only these "styles," you imply that > > > musical > > > style resides exclusively within the liturgical > > > church traditions. > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > > ****************************************************************** > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > > > -- > Alex Hendrickson > > St. Paul's RC Church, Johnston City, Illinois > St. Joseph's RC Church, Benton, Illinois >     -- Alex Hendrickson   St. Paul's RC Church, Johnston City, Illinois St. Joseph's RC Church, Benton, Illinois  
(back) Subject: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:41:30 -0600   Whoops....!!   We're so sorry for *that* ugly little excursion, everyone. . .   Please join me in waving bye-bye to Alex ! ;-)   Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming . . . :-) :-)   --Tim Pipechat Co-Administrator    
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:45:37 -0800 (PST)   In my opinion, one place where a lot of us can learn tasteful worship = renewal resources, that even us classical organists will like, is by = looking at the Black churches that have a great respect for the old and = the new. Good examples are Monty's church, Mt Carmel Baptist in Miami, and = some others. Attending the conferences like the Hampton Conference for = Ministers and Musicians may also be helpful. I have never been, but = reliable sources tell me its a good conference. The Church Music Summit is = a good one too. I was dissappointed to see that there were no other = musicians from either of the lists at the conference in Charlotte. I came = back with a totally diferent respect for Renewal Music because I had = finally been exposed to that of it which is tasteful. Did it not interest = anyone else from the lists? But, everyone will go to AGO or OHS to hear a = pile of recitals and lectures on topics that pretty much Preach to the = Choir. Some of the time, you spend 2 hours talking about one snip of a topic. Maybe they were just above going to such a conference. The reason I say this is because those conferences have at them clinicians = with MMus and DMA's from very good schools of Music. (Next year they are = having Rodney Eichenberger and Andre Thomas at the Charlotte = conference.)The music they compose is very tasteful in nature because they = are all classically trained. One lady at the conference in Charlotte even = did some study in France during her education. At times during that conference, we had good old fashioned "church". One = question from another younger musician on CCM caused a response in the = form of a 15-20 minute roof-raising sermon by Michael McKay, Min. Mus. = from Brentwood Baptist in Houston ( IV Rodgers/Pipe Combination). While it = was something that would put most in our positons in a wad, many would = have enjoyed it. They would have brought back so much good music to = use..and help with job security. The contexts of their pieces are very rich and substantial. Nothing thrown = together in any way. Some good resources I learned more about: Glenn Bueleigh, Diane White, Rayomnd Wise, The GIA African American Music = Series If there are others that are known, do share. At church, we also have some = good resources that my pastor shares with me, which he finds online.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:27:29 EST   >If church was meant to have contemporary music, God would have put it = there in the first >place. Instead, he put chant and classical music there that >dates back to the very beginning of time; there have been monks >forever, singing those wonderful lines of chant.   This is the most ignorant and closed minded statement I've ever heard. = First of all, "church" music as we know it know was not in existance in Old Testament times, when God's people started to worship. The chants that = you seem to think monks have been singing forever have not been around forever, = because they were not being sung by the early Christians, nor were they sung by = the Hebrews. Christian worship varied and varies depending on the area of the = world. Your very Western European view of church music would not be understood by =   Christians in other parts of the world who have included their own = cultural music into their worship styles. Does that mean it's wrong?   As to Episcopalians always being traditional, you need to go see some of = the large churches and what they are doing. It's a sad state of affairs in = many of their churches. Many have abandoned the pipe organ altogether in favor = of contemporary worship. What's sad is that some of these churches were once =   known for having major music programs.   God can be praised through many forms of music. God doesn't say in the = Bible what style of music is supposed to be used. However, the Bible does say = what instruments should be used, the various ways to praise (sing, make music, clap your hands, to dance, and even to be silent before God). Why do some = people think that only traditional music with the pipe organ is valid in church? = If music is done well, regardless of style (be it jazz, classical, whatever) = and it truly worships God, what difference does it make? Not everyone understands clasical music or chant, and while the offering of music isn't = a performance for the congregation to understand, they should get something out of the message.   C.S. Lewis addresses this very subject in his essay "On Church Music". It =   troubles me when people are so closed minded and not fully informed of = what music ministry is. Music ministry is not for the organist or music = director, but it is first to glorify God and to help the congregation worship and bring = them closer to God. That might take different forms, and it might stretch us. = We don't have to like it because it's not about us.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Styles From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:28:13 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Richard Burt obviously didn't understand Alex Hendrickson's question, and it took a further clarification to establish exactly WHAT was being asked. Mr Hendrickson stated in that clarification that he was interested in the various styles of organ pipe voicing over the centuries; or words to that effect.   It now seems that his concern is to do with CONTEMPORARY styles of organ building.   Mr Hendrickson now claims that there are not that many styles, and that they can EASILY be summarised. If THAT be the case, why does he feel the need to ask the question in the first place?   Perhaps Mr Henderson can "go it alone" and explain why the typical neo-baroque house styles of, say, Marcussen, Rieger, Flentrop, van Huevel, Mander, Klais, Nicholson, Holtkamp, Bunjes, Fisk and that of dozens of other builders, are not all exactly the same.   I wish him well in his sweeping generalisations.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Alex Hendrickson <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com> wrote:   > I don't normally reply to people who just start > making non-sense of my > worthwhile questions, but here goes.... > > If you believe Richard is right, that's fine, but > you must not have > read my post close enough > > I was speaking on the tonal > designs that are > present in organs these days   > FYI, you're wrong, there are not that many general > styles, each style > can be summarized easily...     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250  
(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Styles From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:28:53 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Yes!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Alex Hendrickson <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com> wrote:   > So, I'll ask once again, does anybody know of any > other tonal styles > of organ design that I have not listed above??? > > Alex > > > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:43:50 -0600, Alex Hendrickson > <alex.hendrickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > I don't normally reply to people who just start > making non-sense of my > > worthwhile questions, but here goes.... > > > > If you believe Richard is right, that's fine, but > you must not have > > read my post close enough, he is severely mistaken > in thinking that I > > was speaking on the subject of the different > musical compositional > > styles, like as to whether the song (no matter > what instrument it was > > played on) sounded more French, German or this or > that...... It was > > not that, he's wrong, I was speaking on the tonal > designs that are > > present in organs these days, the different > designs that make the > > organs sound different from others. > > > > FYI, you're wrong, there are not that many general > styles, each style > > can be summarized easily... If you wish to concur, > I'd appreciate YOUR > > list of all current tonal styles, if you have a > theory, whether it be > > correct or not, you must have the legitimate info > to back it up.... > > > > BTW, Nobody appreciates a smartallic or a > know-it-all, > > > > ~Alex > > > > > > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:37:10 -0800 (PST), Colin > Mitchell > > <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Richard Burt is quite right. > > > > > > Like all "styles" they are but a rough guide to > the > > > universe. > > > > > > Baroque? > > > > > > What baroque? > > > > > > North German Baroque perhaps? Schnitger etc > > > > > > South German Baroque? Silbermann (who put pedals > to > > > French Baroque organs) > > > > > > Dutch Baroque? Broadly voiced, generous scales > very > > > full flutes > > > > > > French Baroque? The coloured tones of Cliquot > > > > > > Spanish Baroque? Very flute-like Principals and > > > barking reeds > > > > > > Italian Baroque? Bright and chirpy, but of no > great > > > power > > > > > > English Baroque? Schmidt, Harris or > Snetzler....the > > > choice is yours. (Think German, Italian & > Dutch) > > > > > > Late Southern German Baroque - Holzey etc > > > > > > Early romantic baroque? Bit of a misnomer, but > as > > > late as 1850, the Dutch and Germans were still > > > building essentially baroque instruments, but > with > > > more power. > > > > > > The list goes on...and on....and on..... > > > > > > "Styles" are what organ historians love so much, > but > > > in reality, there are as many "styles" as there > are > > > organ builders. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Colin Mitchell UK (Playing neo-baroque in Dutch > > > baroque style, but made in the UK using UK/Dutch > > > pipework). > > > > > > --- "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, Alex: > > > > > > > > When you allow only these "styles," you imply > that > > > > musical > > > > style resides exclusively within the > liturgical > > > > church traditions. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn > more. > > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > > List-Subscribe: > <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > > > List-Digest: > <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > > > List-Unsubscribe: > <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Alex Hendrickson > > > > St. Paul's RC Church, Johnston City, Illinois > > St. Joseph's RC Church, Benton, Illinois > > > > > -- > Alex Hendrickson > > St. Paul's RC Church, Johnston City, Illinois > St. Joseph's RC Church, Benton, Illinois > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250  
(back) Subject: Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:32:22 -0800 (PST)   Aw shucks!   Just when I had gone into killer mode!   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Tim Bovard <tmbovard@earthlink.net> wrote:   > Whoops....!! > > We're so sorry for *that* ugly little excursion, > everyone. . . > > Please join me in waving bye-bye to Alex ! ;-)       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250  
(back) Subject: Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:41:16 EST   Seems to me we had a young man asking questions for a research paper on organs. Most non-organists, and likely many organists, don't even KNOW = there are tonal differences. Yes, he did make some generalizations, but ignorance (innocence?) would do this.   And instead of teaching him (isn't THIS the best place to ask = questions?), we flamed him and kicked him off the list.   Great way to learn.   Victoria    
(back) Subject: RE: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:06:51 -0500   Victoria: The rules for posting demand, more or less, that we be civil. Adding "BTW, Nobody appreciates a smartallic or a know-it-all" is not = civil language. That's language intended to hurt someone and I support actions = to keep this site free of nastiness. I enjoy arguments but I despise = fighting. There are other organ chat sites where fighting is tolerated. But not this one.   Regards, Andrew Mead       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Myosotis51@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:41 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles     Seems to me we had a young man asking questions for a research paper on organs. Most non-organists, and likely many organists, don't even KNOW there are tonal differences. Yes, he did make some generalizations, but ignorance (innocence?) would do this.   And instead of teaching him (isn't THIS the best place to ask = questions?), we flamed him and kicked him off the list.   Great way to learn.   Victoria     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Re: *ADMIN POST* re: Tonal Styles From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:08:17 -0500     On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:41:16 EST Myosotis51@aol.com writes:   > And instead of teaching him (isn't THIS the best place to ask > questions?), > we flamed him and kicked him off the list. > > Great way to learn.       I have reread his posts. There is not a damn thing wrong with his questions. There are NO stupid questions, only stupid answers.     Jim                 "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." --Mae West