PipeChat Digest #5082 - Friday, January 14, 2005
 
Amy and BJ Thomas
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
RE: harmonic flutes... how romantic
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Harmonic Flute
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Baldwins
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Praise Music Vs. Hymns
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ...
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>
Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ...
  by "Malcolm Wechsler \(Mander Organs\)" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ...
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Silliness: (Re: "Praise Songs" as heard ... )
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: "Praise Songs" as heard by those who don't like them
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re:  "Praise Songs" as heard by an outside observer
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
RE: harmonic flutes
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
RE: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "Robert Bell" <bobbell@optonline.net>
Re: New MP3 avaialable - Richard White's Toccata
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Etymology of "Swan Song"
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
 

(back) Subject: Amy and BJ Thomas From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:52:47 EST   In a message dated 1/13/2005 9:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, gksjd85@direcway.com writes: > Amy Grant made her name doing the same thing - no one > could tell from listening to the stuff that it was praising God at all. > I think the term used for them back then was "crossover artist".   This is not accurate. Amy Grant was a gospel artist before she entered = the popular scene. She took a LOT of grief over that, but she stood her = ground.   Whether you like her music or not is fine. But, make sure your facts are accurate.   As for BJ Thomas, I think his conversion was genuine, BUT, perhaps a bit = like the "seed that grows on rocky ground". Nevertheless, when I saw him = perform in 1979 or whatever, it was a very fine concert (I shall never forget his trumpet player conducting the band with his foot).   Neil by the Bay (65 degrees in NJ today)    
(back) Subject: RE: harmonic flutes... how romantic From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:55:56 +1300   >Harmonic flutes were not "invented" by Cavaille-Coll. They have been around for centuries. Very early examples in what is now Germany.   Indeed. Querflote and the like. Very early German ones sound rather different, though, from Cavaille-Coll ones, as I'm sure you'll agree.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Harmonic Flute From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:15:05 -0600   Ross--I really don't know an answer to "Why are harmonic flutes so = beloved?" except that many of us DO like the sound. I had a rank of Moeller 4' Harmonic Flute that I still regret selling to a fellow enthusiast; it was absolutely lovely.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Baldwins From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:50:32 -0600   Actually, the two parishes where Alex is one of the organists have = identical Baldwins, relatively recent for Baldwin--which, I *think* hasn't made = organs for a decade or so?   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Praise Music Vs. Hymns From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:53:08 -0600   I don't know the original source of the below, nor if it has been posted here before, but it is a humorous look at the differences between hymns = and praise music. I think it makes a point.   FWIW, I find that people like or dislike praise choruses for the same reasons--the repetitious phrases, the simple structures, etc.   Dennis Steckley _____________     Hymns vs. Choruses   An old farmer went to the city one weekend and attended the big city = church. He came home and his wife asked him how it was.   "Well," said the farmer, "it was good. They did something different, however. They sang praise choruses instead of hymns."   "Praise choruses?" said his wife. "What are those?"   "Oh, they're OK. They are sort of like hymns, only different," said the farmer.   "Well, what's the difference?" asked his wife.   The farmer said, "Well, it's like this - If I were to say to you "Martha, the cows are in the corn"' - well, that would be a hymn. If on the other hand, I were to say to you:   Martha, Martha, Martha, Oh Martha, MARTHA, MARTHA, the cows, the big cows, the brown cows, the black cows the white cows, the black and white cows, the COWS, COWS, COWS are in the corn, are in the corn, are in the corn, are in the corn, the CORN, CORN, CORN.   Then, if I were to repeat the whole thing two or three times, well, that would be a praise chorus."   The next weekend, his nephew, a young, new Christian from the city came to visit and attended the local church of the small town. He went home and = his mother asked him how it was.   "Well," said the young man, "it was good. They did something different however. They sang hymns instead of regular songs."   "Hymns?" asked his mother. "What are those?"   "Oh, they're OK. They are sort of like regular songs, only different," = said the young man.   "Well, what's the difference?" asked his mother.   The young man said, "Well, it's like this - If I were to say to you = 'Martha, the cows are in the corn' - well, that would be a regular song. If on the other hand, I were to say to you:   Oh Martha, dear Martha, hear thou my cry Inclinest thine ear to the words of my mouth Turn thou thy whole wondrous ear by and by To the righteous, inimitable, glorious truth.   For the way of the animals who can explain There in their heads is no shadow of sense Hearkenest they in God's sun or His rain Unless from the mild, tempting corn they are fenced.   Yea those cows in glad bovine, rebellious delight Have broke free their shackles, their warm pens eschewed Then goaded by minions of darkness and night They all my mild Chilliwack sweet corn have chewed.   So look to the bright shining day by and by Where all foul corruptions of earth are reborn Where no vicious animals make my soul cry And I no longer see those foul cows in the corn.'   Then if I were to do only verses one, three and four and do a key change = on the last verse, well that would be a hymn.        
(back) Subject: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ... From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:35:59 +0800   Glenda,   Swan Song   There is a legend that swans sing an exquisitely beautiful song just before= dying. There's no truth to it, but that's the legend and the origin of the= phrase. The phrase swan song dates to 1831, although English language lite= rary allusions to the legend date back to Chaucer, c. 1374. (And the associ= ation of swans and singing is even older, stemming from Greek myth.)   (http://www.wordorigins.org/wordors.htm)     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com>   > P.S. Can anyone tell me the etymology of the term "swan song"? I'm > using it in a letter. -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:39:52 -0600   When I was a youngster at church camp in the 1960's the staff was fond of making us sing the Doxology to the tune of "Hernado's Hideaway."   The fact that the text was traditional and of high quality did nothing to disguise the fact that the music was just silly.   That lesson still applies.     Larry Wheelock Director of Music Ministries Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, Wisconsin musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org
(back) Subject: Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ... From: "Malcolm Wechsler \(Mander Organs\)" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:54:04 -0500   And for what it is worth, there is also the ravishingly beautiful little Orlando Gibbons (1583-1625) part song, The Silver Swan.   "The Silver Swan, when living had no note, When death approach'd, unlock'd her silent throat. Leaning her breast against the reedy shore, Thus sang her first and last, and sung no more. Farewell, all joys; O Death come close mine eyes; More geese than swans now live, more fools than wise."   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:35 PM Subject: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ...     Glenda,   Swan Song   There is a legend that swans sing an exquisitely beautiful song just = before dying. There's no truth to it, but that's the legend and the origin of the =   phrase. The phrase swan song dates to 1831, although English language literary allusions to the legend date back to Chaucer, c. 1374. (And the association of swans and singing is even older, stemming from Greek myth.)   (http://www.wordorigins.org/wordors.htm)     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenda <gksjd85@direcway.com>   > P.S. Can anyone tell me the etymology of the term "swan song"? I'm > using it in a letter. -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:00:24 +0800   That's the kind of thing that would have led me away from church!   Then again, we've got a church member who mentions (often) that Amazing Gra= ce fits with the tune of Gilligan's Island. The fact that the meter of the = music fits the words doesn't make the two go together.   I'm sure you ment that a tango, in and of itself, isn't 'silly'; mixing the= meaningful words of a sacred song and a popular tune is.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>   > When I was a youngster at church camp in the 1960's the staff was=20 > fond of making us sing the Doxology to the tune of "Hernado's=20 > Hideaway." >=20 > The fact that the text was traditional and of high quality did=20 > nothing to disguise the fact that the music was just silly. >=20 > That lesson still applies. >=20 > Larry Wheelock -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ... From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:20:30 +0800   This reminds me of a ditty written by a well known character a couple of hundred years ago. English writer but I cant recall his name: "Swan sing before they die, 'twere no bad thing Should certain persons die before they sing." Bob Elms, who does not sing very well.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Wechsler (Mander Organs)" <manderusa@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ...     > And for what it is worth, there is also the ravishingly beautiful little =   > Orlando Gibbons (1583-1625) part song, The Silver Swan. > > "The Silver Swan, when living had no note, > When death approach'd, unlock'd her silent throat. > Leaning her breast against the reedy shore, > Thus sang her first and last, and sung no more. > Farewell, all joys; O Death come close mine eyes; > More geese than swans now live, more fools than wise." >       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 12/01/2005    
(back) Subject: Silliness: (Re: "Praise Songs" as heard ... ) From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:20:37 +0800   Glenda's posts always make the gears in the head twirl...   > But since we are discussing praise music yet again, I > will chime in with an opinion like everyone else, because opinions are > like . . .=20=20   Like what? A retiring judge?   > I remember in the late 1970s and early > 1980s B.J. Thomas, his career on a downslide, decided to revive it by > entering the religious music arena. His songs sounded like love songs > of the time.=20=20   And that's why praise songs have the congregation "hooked on a feeling"?   > From someone who is watching for the first time a weird show called > 'MXC' on Spike TV, and who used to like South Park - talk about poor > taste   Yeah, Kenny Blankenship! Boo, Kenny the craft paper cutout cartoon.   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: "Praise Songs" as heard by those who don't like them From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:27:54 +0800   Glenda, I quoted the origin in a post on another subject. There was a = story going back into the mists of time that swans sang before they died. Therefore a swan song was the last performance.   My reference was to a ditty composed some hundred and fifty years ago or = so by a famous English writer:   "Swans sing before they die, 'twere no bad thing Should certain persons die before they sing."   I think I have it right. It is very many years since this cropped up in English Literature in my student days. Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> > > P.S. Can anyone tell me the etymology of the term "swan song"? I'm = using > it in a letter. >       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 12/01/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: "Praise Songs" as heard by an outside observer From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:35:23 EST   Bravo, Sebastian! No arguments from me, your observations are right on = the money, in my opinion. I think my biggest peeve about contemporary church music, praise songs, or = call-it-what-you-will is the secular musical style, for lack of a better description. For many centuries the human race has recognized the sacred = by setting it apart from everyday use. I play for a Roman Catholic church, = and I bet parishioners would be properly scandalized if the priest ate a tuna fish sandwich off of the paten, or drank a Coke from the chalice. As sacred = vessels, they are not used for such mundane things, they are set apart. = Similarly, I vest in cassock and surplice whenever I play for a liturgy -- this is a visual recognition that what I am doing at that time is worship, = something sacred and set apart from the everyday. The problem with "pop" church music, in = my opinion, is that it's like a Coke in the chalice! The music sounds just like what I hear in the elevator or at the mall, or when I'm put on = "hold." Where is the transcendence? I think part of the problem is confusing = worship with entertainment (perhaps consciously in some cases in an attempt to = develop a larger congregation). Worship might be entertaining, but the point of = the exercise is to praise God. It seems to me that it is a good, natural, = and very human thing that sacred music should sound "different." Just a few thoughts from this tired Presbypiscometholic! Steve Folkers Skokie, IL    
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:40:58 +0800   Shirly,=20   Oy, indeed! Your post brought this passage to mind:   Though you soar as high as eagles and build your nest among the stars, I wi= ll bring you crashing down. I, the LORD, have spoken! Obadiah 1:4 (NLT)   Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, how about you?=20   I'd much rather sing:   The prince of darkness grim, we tremble not for him His rage we can endure, for lo, his doom is sure: One little word shall fell him.     ----- Original Message ----- From: Shirley <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>   > One of the points under the category of worship was: "Hymns are needed t= hat > have an uplifting mood to them; ones that make you happy. A Mighty Fortr= ess > does not make you feel that way, but On Eagle's Wings does give you a good > feeling." >=20 > And this is a Lutheran church. >=20 > Oy. We have a lot of education ahead of us. >=20 > What HAS happened to worship? Seems like there is a great divide between > majesty and warm fuzzies. >=20 > --Shirley   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: RE: harmonic flutes From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:44:20 -0500   As to Ross's question of why do we like harmonic flutes, um, I don't know, =   could it be because they sound nice?   Historic? Maybe, but for me I want something because its useful.   As for this comment, its probably true that a harmonic flute doesn't blend =   well, but I've found 4' examples, though perhaps not historically = accurate, to blend well with 8' stopped flutes. In this case, you can play an = octave down, or extend to 8', to have the historic 8' voice as well. I'm = speaking especially of a nice, small G.S. Hutchings from 1894 that has just a 16' bourdon, 8' stopped diapason, and 4' harmonic flute for a flute chorus in = the swell. Play an octave up, and its an effective 8,4,2 chorus. It seems harmonic flutes can blend as long as they are the uppermost voice in the chorus. Maybe this is why (besides cost) that we see more 4' and 2' = harmonic flutes than 8' these days, even if its not as historic.   I dunno, I'm just rambling a few thoughts.   Andy   > Why is it that so many people seem to want harmonic flutes > everywhere these days? > > In my experience, harmonic flutes often don't blend well with > anything at all, and have a habit of sounding rather like honky open > metal flutes. In fact it was often the case in English-tradition > organs through till the end of the 1950s that builders would put in > a harmonic flute at 4ft to go with the 8ft Hohl Flute or Claribel on > the Great. That sort of tone is ghastly for accompanying singing and > useless in the classic schools of composition. > > Stopped or chimneyed flutes, on the other hand, have a habit of blending > with other flutes, or with mutations, or even with Diapason ranks. > > Even if I had 45 to 50 stops, I'd not include a harmonic flute at > all as there are so many more useful stops. > > Yes, I do know the arguments about Cavaille-Coll, Romantic French music > etc., but I'm not convinced as most churches don't have the kind of > acoustics Cavaille-Coll worked in, and also Romantic French music > may be a blast as an occasional closing voluntary, but cannot be > used during the average parish service where accompaniment to > singing (be it congregational or choir), and little "fill-in" bits > are mostly required. > > Yes, I expect a heap of comments in favour of harmonic flutes: I'd = really > like to hear reasoned arguments and not just a heap of "I love it" = remarks. > Fire away! :-) > > Ross   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "Robert Bell" <bobbell@optonline.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:45:15 -0500   In a Very 60s Southern Baptist Chruch in West Texas our music director had the High School and College age choir sing "Amazing Grace" to the tune = "The House of the Rising Sun." This was for an evening service in the summer directed mainly at the youth of several neighboring churches. The kids = loved it! The adults tolerated it. Bob Bell   ________________________________   From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Larry Wheelock Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:40 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs     When I was a youngster at church camp in the 1960's the staff was fond of making us sing the Doxology to the tune of "Hernado's Hideaway."   The fact that the text was traditional and of high quality did nothing to disguise the fact that the music was just silly.   That lesson still applies.     Larry Wheelock Director of Music Ministries Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, Wisconsin musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: New MP3 avaialable - Richard White's Toccata From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:49:46 -0500   I hear you... I was thinking the same thing. It could have used something =   different in the middle to break it up or something. But I dunno... I = like it anyway! :) Philosophical question... if it was much shorter... would = you then want to hear it again and again? I wouldn't think so, if you're not into the long version. Andy   On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:53:14 -0500, Bob Conway wrote > At 07:59 AM 1/13/2005, Andy wrote: > >I listened to this mp3 as soon as this message was posted, and haven't = been > >able to stop listening to it since. Anyone else having this problem? > >:) > >Andy > > Since you ask, Andy, I downloaded the Richard White Toccata, played > it through once, and will probably not play it again for a long time! > > I don't think it a memorable piece, - not for me, anyway. It just > goes on and on too long! Maybe if it were cut off at midpoint it > would be better. > > Just my tuppence worth. > > Bob Conway > - But thanks to Jonathan orwig for letting us hear it! > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: = mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Richer Content In Praise Songs From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:09:46 +0800   I agree that prep time is important to the music of the church no matter th= e style. I've grown to like our "blended" style service with a set of three= _contemporary_ praise songs near the beginning of the service. (I count Hy= mns, and Psalms as praise songs ... they are for the praise of God.) In the= past six months I've added "unknown" hymn tunes as preludes (there used to= be none.)=20   When I know what the sermon subject is or know what the readings (both the = invocation and the passages for the sermon), I'll choose praise songs that = are based on those references or similar subjects. (The pastor chooses the = hymns, I choose the praise songs (he retains veto power.)) Once in a while,= Fanny Crosby finds her way into the contemporary praise songs. We rarely d= o the "one-line over and over again" praise choruses ... the only exception= now might be "Awesome God" as an into to another song. Though I don't thin= k we've done it in over a year. ('t ain't my favorite.)   We always begin with a hymn after the invocation, one after offertory one a= fter the sermon and the Doxology after the benedition. I don't see our chur= ch putting the hymnal away anytime soon.=20   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>   > In summary: >=20 > (how many times amd ways do I have to say this before people will=20 > read it and UNDERSTAND?) >=20 > I am not in disfavor of traditional music or worship - I DEPLORE=20 > worship of any style when done sloppily, without preparation and=20 > for reasons other than glorifying God. My main point was (and is)=20 > to IMPLORE you all not to make blanket statements and judgements=20 > about Praise bands and that genre of music. That is only taking a=20 > slice of the data and your bad experiences (those which support=20 > your conclusion) upon which to base conclusions. As respectfully=20 > as possible I must suggest that this is poor logic, bad=20 > scholarship, and serves only to further divide us on the issue.=20=20 > Please, know that I respect your opinions, am sympathetic to those=20=20 > of you who have endured emotional, spiritual and financial hardship=20 > as a result of changing styles. Please, do not lump all of us=20 > Praise Band leaders and our contemporary worship services=20 > together... some of us really do try to do this to the best of our=20 > ability and in a manner that is worthy. I don't demand that you=20 > like what I do (or even agree with it!), but I would ask that you=20 > at least try to honor the work I put into doing it to the best of=20 > my ability >=20 > Peace, >=20 > -Jonathan   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:23:47 +0800   Samuel Taylor Coleridge   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: Etymology of "Swan Song" Was: "Praise Songs" as heard ... Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:20:30 +0800   >=20 > This reminds me of a ditty written by a well known character a=20 > couple of hundred years ago. English writer but I cant recall his=20 > name: > "Swan sing before they die, 'twere no bad thing > Should certain persons die before they sing." > Bob Elms, who does not sing very well.   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm