PipeChat Digest #5086 - Friday, January 14, 2005
 
Re: Old, new, good, less good?
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Legitimacy of word usage....
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Legitimacy of word usage....
  by "Young Organists Online" <youngorganistsonline@hotmail.com>
Re: "Praise Songs" as heard by those who don't like them
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: Legitimacy of word usage....
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Legitimacy of word usage....
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Illegitimacy of double-talk
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Illegitimacy of double-talk
  by "Young Organists Online" <youngorganistsonline@hotmail.com>
PipeChat IRC tonight
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Legitimacy of word usage....
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: Legitimacy of word usage....
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
the American gnostic heresy
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: PipeChat IRC tonight
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Old, new, good, less good? From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:45:01 +0800   I shall work on the fugue, but it could be a while.... :-)   .... still don't know why it's important to to sing out that "Andy walks wit= h me."   ----- Original Message ----- From: DERREINETOR@aol.com > In the late 19th century it was 12/8 metre and > "whispering in my ear"; today, it's "God is So Totally, Like,=20 > Wicked Awesome" and with > heavy chords on 1 and 4. Who am I to judge? I play plagal cadences for a > living. Anyone have a good double-fugue on "Lord, I lift your name on hi= gh"? >=20 > With tongue half-in-cheek, >=20 > Bill H. > Boston.       -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:23:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)   Hi List,=0D =0D It seemed to me as if he already had the answers to the questions that= he was asking, and was seeking some sort of reinforcement for those answers.= =2E..=0D =0D How about leading a hymn with a kinura?=0D =0D - Nate=0D =20
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... From: "Young Organists Online" <youngorganistsonline@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:28:53 -0600   I wasn't trying to get a reinforcement, I was just trying to tell you that =   Alex is a good guy, I've known him for a long time, he's in my Young Organists Group too, you probably were just being a bit too serious with him. He's very intellectual and doesn't take insults from anyone, and from =   what I can see, he didn't do anything to merit his removal. Gosh, the kid needs someone to stand up for him..... Am I alone???   Landon   >From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:23:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > >Hi List, > > It seemed to me as if he already had the answers to the questions = that >he >was asking, and was seeking some sort of reinforcement for those >answers.... > > How about leading a hymn with a kinura? > > - Nate >   _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! =   http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/    
(back) Subject: Re: "Praise Songs" as heard by those who don't like them From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:30:23 -0000   "The silver swan who, living, had no note, When death approached, unlocked it's silent throat; Leaning it's head upon the reedy shore Thus sung it's first, and last, and sang no more.   "O welcome death, O death, come close mine eyes. More Geese than Swans now live. More Fools than Wise!"   Wasn't not Orlando - the less than funky Gibbon - to whom we owe this = trendy little ditty.   And wasn't not composed as the classical euphamism for the dour, uncouth, ill-mannered and rank Scotish courtiers of James VI - by then King James 1st. of England - usurping the places of the elegant, polite, courteous, = and possibly better smelling court persons of the late - and very much lamented - 'Virgin Queen' Elizabeth 1 st. ?   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman revelling in the attribute of 'Sassernach']   _______________________________________________   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:34 AM Subject: RE: "Praise Songs" as heard by those who don't like them     >I believe the phrase originated from the old belief that the swan, which = is > normally a silent bird, sang just once, immediately before its death... > Actually, of course, the swan is not completely silent; it issues an = angry > quacking sound if you are not quick enough with the bread to feed it on > the > river Avon at Stratford by the Shakespeare Memorial Theatre!    
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:41:29 -0600   At 2:31 PM -0600 1/14/05, Young Organists Online wrote: >I just joined not too long ago, but I was somewhat confused by the >banning that took place... His comments didn't seem rude toward me, >what do you all think??? Is he banned now???   I had started a posting to the list yesterday about this but since things died down a bit last night I didn't follow through on sending it.   It is not often that we remove someone from the list and do it quite so quickly but luckily for all of you we caught Alex before he got too far and insulted all sorts of people on this list. I think Daniel Hancock's posting yesterday afternoon summed up Alex's history on the DIYAPASON list quite well.   I'm all in favor of our supporting young people on this and the other lists that PipeChat runs but shortly after Alex was made a part of the DIYAPASON list things turned very ugly very quickly and he insulted several people who dared to question his over-inflated opinion of himself and his "experience".   Although his original question was a good one but you will notice that even with his fourth posting to the list he ended with: "BTW, Nobody appreciates a smartallic or a know-it-all," At that point his ugliness was beginning to rear its head. To Tim and I, this showed the beginning of a repeat performance of his DIYAPASON list behavior. That is why we acted quickly in removing him from this list.   Mailing lists on the Internet are all basically "owned" by someone who is responsible for their operation. And those people that are the List Owners can set out any rules they want to in order to maintain a sense of decorum on the list which also includes banning someone from the list who is causing a problem. And in Alex's case the List Owners / Administrators have had first hand experience with the way Alex behaves based on his participation in the DIYAPASON list. The decisions of the List Owners / Administrators in cases like this are not a topic of discussion on the list. We would be willing to listen to any comments from the members of this list PRIVATELY via the Administration address.   Now, I hope we can drop this discussion on the list and get back to our "regularly scheduled" discussions.   Happy PipeChatting!   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:46:37 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Even better, add a trem and the Tibia and we could enjoy a sing song.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   > Hi List, > > > > How about leading a hymn with a kinura?       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: Illegitimacy of double-talk From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:49:50 EST   I would advise that this otiose naumachia come to an end. With two adolescents playing "InterNet Rashamon," the pot is getting stirred up and our time is being wasted with jobation in alternatum. The "he said - she said - it said" macrology is pointless in light of what is emerging as a nefandous and apparently established track record. Let us move on to other nescient paralogism, or at best, sciolism.   Sebastian  
(back) Subject: Re: Illegitimacy of double-talk From: "Young Organists Online" <youngorganistsonline@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:53:09 -0600   Mind providing us with definitions Seb???       >From: TubaMagna@aol.com >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Re: Illegitimacy of double-talk >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:49:50 EST > > I would advise that this otiose naumachia come to an end. > With two adolescents playing "InterNet Rashamon," the pot is getting >stirred up and our time is being wasted with jobation in alternatum. > The "he said - she said - it said" macrology is pointless in light = of >what is emerging as a nefandous and apparently established track record. > Let us move on to other nescient paralogism, or at best, sciolism. > >Sebastian > >****************************************************************** >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >   _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=3DRetirement    
(back) Subject: PipeChat IRC tonight From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:58:49 -0600   I noticed that Bob Conway didn't post his usual reminder about the PipeChat IRC session tonight so I thought I would do it in his place.   PipeChat hosts twice weekly "live" discussions on Monday and Friday night beginning at 9 PM EASTERN time. The instructions on how to join in are available on the list web site at: http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html   Just a quick explanation of IRC (Internet Relay Chat) for those not familiar with it. IRC is a means of having "live" discussions by the means of a specific software program that connects to a dedicated IRC server. In the case of the PipeChat IRC server there is also a web interface to join in the discussions but I do have to warn you that it can sometimes be rather slow using the web interface. All the instructions for setting up the software and for even downloading it are available on the list site at the address above.   There is a "core" group of us that have been meeting for the IRC sessions for many years but we are always open to having new people join us. Although the topic of discussion in meant to be related to organs we do go off on other topics including computers, weather, current events, etc. If you are new to IRC and new to the PipeChat session please make yourself known and join in whatever we are discussing and don't be afraid to ask any questions or start another "thread" of chat. And don't be scared when we start asking questions of you like where you live or where you play, etc. All of that is just a means for us to get to know you.   Hopefully we will see some new faces join in tonight.   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:00:11 -0500   Landon and other Pipechatters,   The issue regarding this young man may seem mean, cruel, and severe at = first glance. You must trust the judgement of David and Tim in this case. We hobbyists from the "DIYapason" List have already been through a week of postings that followed the progression EXACTLY as Sebastian described. On = a couple occasions, I tried to explain to him how he was alienating himself from those who would like to help him and who could provide him with some = of the services and favors he would need down the road. Of course, he denied being rude, and he wouldn't accept any responsibility for his attitude of arrogance. If you could read the DIYapason postings, most of you would probably agree.   David had outlined for him (off the list) a plan for allowing him to = benefit from the "wisdom" of the List (which included some mentoring), but he apparently didn't want to submit to that.   Just trust our list owners with this one. This is one of those, "I guess you had to be there" kind of things.   Sincerely, Keith      
(back) Subject: Re: Legitimacy of word usage.... From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:06:58 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Well as I was the one who was "insulted".....bemused actually....perhaps I might lend a bit of support to Alex.   As I stated in a previous post, his questions were not put very well, and that caused some confusion. My response was entirely valid, for I was trying to open his eyes to the fact that "style" is not restricted to just four categories, and both geographically as well over a given period of time, there is great variety, with influences coming from neighbouring areas and even from past influences.   In fact, organ history (which includes questions of style) is an astonishingly complex subject, of which very few are masters. Even when we think we "know it all," one comes across an old Swedish organ which is absolutely fantastic, or a modern recreation of some obscure Gothic organ. In a nutshell, organ building is as complex as the people who create the instruments, and just taking the year 1857, I could show Alex several different styles of instrument from several different countries; none of which sound remotely the same.   So on behalf of Alex, could I make a plea that he be re-instated?   At 15, he will have a lot to learn, no matter how intellectual he may be. True intellect is knowing the first rule of life....."You will never know it all, no matter how long you live."   We all make mistakes....God knows, even the fly on the wall flew out when I started to re-learn the Mozart K608 recently, and it was -5 centigrade outside.   But if Alex is allowed back, I promise I will fly out from the UK and personally kick his ass if he starts throwing insults about!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- Young Organists Online <youngorganistsonline@hotmail.com> wrote:   > I wasn't trying to get a reinforcement, I was just > trying to tell you that > Alex is a good guy, I've known him for a long time, > he's in my Young > Organists Group too, you probably were just being a > bit too serious with > him. He's very intellectual and doesn't take insults > from anyone, and from > what I can see, he didn't do anything to merit his > removal. Gosh, the kid > needs someone to stand up for him..... Am I alone???     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: the American gnostic heresy From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:11:48 -0500   I would love to get my hands on that essay by Virgil Thompson. Unfortunately, you say it was not published. You wouldn't know where I could find a copy, by any chance? It confirms what I suggested in an earlier post about the bad theology of certain Victorian hymns. "In the Garden," which you cite, is symptomatic of the extreme anti-corporate nature of what Philip J. Lee, in his brilliant book _Against the Protestant Gnostics_ (Oxford University Press: 1987), calls the American gnostic heresy. The hymn is all about "just me and my Savior." The church has no role to play in that hymn. He cites that hymn in particular (I think, though at the moment I can't find the reference in this book). The problem is already in the Protestant formula, familiar to me from my Disciples of Christ childhood, "Do you accept Him as your personal savior?" That puts it as just between the Christian and his personal savior (kind of like a personal trainer, I suppose). The church is not part of the equation, in that formulation. It's bizarre that admission to the church is predicated on answering yes to a question that denies the significance of that community. Lee also writes: "The individualism and hyper-spiritualism of the popular Protestant message have helped to forestall gun control, medicare, nuclear disarmament [this dates it a bit--remember he was writing in the 1980s] and environmental responsibility. Anything that smacks of corporate compassion and social hope is highly suspect within popular American Protestantism. Alexis de Tocqueville was prophetic, says Lee (quoting Tom Wolfe, of all people), when he wrote: "Not only does [American] democracy make each man forget his ancestors, it hides his descendants from him, and divides him from his contemporaries ; it continually turns him back into himself, and threatens, at last, to enclose him entirely in the solitude of his own heart." Lee again: "It is said of atheism that 'those who believe in nothing always end up believing in anything.' Perhaps it can be said of gnosticism that those who believe in everything always end up believing in nothing." Lee prefers Barth to Bultmann. There's been too much demythologizing going on. Part of the American gnostic heresy is to devalue history, but God working in history, argues Lee, in the Incarnation and elsewhere, is what our faith should be about. No history, no past, no future: just me, me, me, and my Savior in the garden. Just love that euphoria--perfect word, as another poster said, for what too many seek in worship nowadays.   Randy Runyon     On Jan 14, 2005, at 5:49 PM, DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote:   > Having followed the thread on praise music, etc, I am reminded of an > essay written (but not published) in the 20's by Virgil Thompson on > the subject of "Gospel Hymns". > > ... I could say the same about "In the Garden".
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat IRC tonight From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:15:10 -0500   Hi David and list,   I did send a reminder out at 5.34 pm Eastern time, - but it seems to have strayed into cyber space or something, - no matter, David has picked it = up! Bob Conway   At 07:58 PM 1/14/2005, David wrote: >I noticed that Bob Conway didn't post his usual reminder about the >PipeChat IRC session tonight so I thought I would do it in his place. > >PipeChat hosts twice weekly "live" discussions on Monday and Friday = night >beginning at 9 PM EASTERN time. The instructions on how to join in are >available on the list web site at: http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html > >Just a quick explanation of IRC (Internet Relay Chat) for those not >familiar with it. IRC is a means of having "live" discussions by the >means of a specific software program that connects to a dedicated IRC >server. In the case of the PipeChat IRC server there is also a web >interface to join in the discussions but I do have to warn you that it = can >sometimes be rather slow using the web interface. All the instructions >for setting up the software and for even downloading it are available on >the list site at the address above. > >There is a "core" group of us that have been meeting for the IRC sessions =   >for many years but we are always open to having new people join >us. Although the topic of discussion in meant to be related to organs = we >do go off on other topics including computers, weather, current events, >etc. If you are new to IRC and new to the PipeChat session please make >yourself known and join in whatever we are discussing and don't be afraid =   >to ask any questions or start another "thread" of chat. And don't be >scared when we start asking questions of you like where you live or where =   >you play, etc. All of that is just a means for us to get to know you. > >Hopefully we will see some new faces join in tonight. > >David >-- >**************************************** >David Scribner >Owner / Co-Administrator >PipeChat > >http://www.pipechat.org >mailto:admin@pipechat.org > >****************************************************************** >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>