PipeChat Digest #5103 - Wednesday, January 19, 2005
 
RE: Good Music
  by "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com>
Re: Free Sheetmusic Library Is Online!
  by "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net>
Re: Free Sheetmusic Library Is Online!
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Old Chestnuts -- some of them stale
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Fisk open house
  by "Mark Nelson" <mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com>
Re: I hate to be the bearer of bad news ...
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Good Music
  by "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com>
Hymns
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
RE: Organ rags
  by "Shawn M. Gingrich" <shawn.gingrich@firstumchershey.org>
Re: getting back "on topic"
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
RE: misunderstood texts
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: I hate to be the bearer of bad news ...
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
RE: Sacred Musician or What?
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Evaluating Church Organists
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Evaluating Church Organists
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Favorite Hymns
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Malines and BDO pedalboards
  by <robian@esc.net.au>
Re: Rubbishy hymns
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Good Music From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:42:27 -0000   Personally, I think that a Director of Music at a church should decide = what the congregation sings. As long as it is fitting in the liturgical sense, = I see no point in thinking 'Well the Congregation would prefer Jesus loves = us on a moonbeam or some other modern guff. The congregation does not usually refuse to sing something in my experience, so as long as they know the = tune or if it is simple to learn, then play your personal favourite hymns.   My congregation in Scotland is rather large, and there are four organists. Two of these organists (I am one of the 2) insist on playing traditional 'Good' hymns, whereas the other organists play modern stuff. The congregation at my church does not complain. They sing whatever music is being played.   That is the way it should be.   Dom     _____   From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Scott Montgomery Sent: 18 January 2005 21:48 To: PipeChat Subject: Good Music     I'm sure people thought that some of Bach's music was crap too. I know....unbelievable, but there is proof that people found his chorale preludes confusing along with many other things. Times were different, = just as they are now. If we have the attitude that its ok to allow only these "secular sounding church songs" then why even consider getting a music degree and learning about all the great masters when all we need to know = is playing 3-4 different chords.     Many people have become accustomed to these "hymns" (guitar songs) because there was a period where music was suppose allow the congregation to sing. (As if hymns weren't good enough.) Hymns survived how many hundreds of = years before then? Speaking as a 26 year old catholic that did not witness pre-Vatican music or services, this music was created for people to participate that have never participated before. Easy, simple, hip....for the 60's and maybe 70's. But what about now? I think its "dorky" to sing these songs, even stupid at times because i don't feel like singing Carpenter music. (We've only just Begun.....to Love God.....sit around = the table and love...man) Puke!     I had my children's choir sing Here, I am Lord last weekend. I found this descant in the ritual song hymnal and we tried it out. The kids were so bored. Isn't this a piece that "speaks to the people?" (A old director always told me that.....speaks to the people.) Just take a look at this song and look at all the long notes in it. What congregation holds a note = 4 beats and then waits 4 beats and comes in again. The energy is lost the second the first phrase starts.     So where do we all stand? I believe that you can mix in some of these = songs occasionally to makes the few who still like them happy. I know my congregation of 1100 families would rather sing "Praise to the Lord" than "We are Called" by David Haas.     That is basically what it all comes down too: the music the director = likes, and the background of the congregation.           Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net      
(back) Subject: Re: Free Sheetmusic Library Is Online! From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:43:02 -0500   Must be this site works sometimes and doesn't work others. Today I couldn't get it to open at all. Yesterday it was just fine. Maybe it can only handle limited traffic. I suggest interested people just keep trying.   Steve Best in Utica, NY   Daniel Hancock wrote:   >I hate to disagree here, and prolong this discussion, but the url I >previously supplied in answer to Dr. Fleming's query does still work and >the site is in perfect working order. I just checked it, after reading >this message. > >It's not the most user-friendly, and maybe that's why some of you are >having trouble downloading it. If you can access it, it might be a good >source of some usable scores. > >http://www.bh2000.net/score/ > >Daniel Hancock >Springfield, Missouri >      
(back) Subject: Re: Free Sheetmusic Library Is Online! From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:46:22 -0500   It will not open for me either!   Bob Conway   At 10:39 AM 1/19/2005, you wrote: >It never opened for me. >Richard > >Daniel Hancock <dhancock@brpae.com> wrote: > >Free Sheetmusic Library is no longer online. It had a mirror site which >is >also disabled. According to information on the mirror site there >were >copyright issues with the way Free Sheetmusic was set up. Even if >the music >of J S Bach is out of copyright, the actual scanned editions >and their >artwork may be subject to copyright. > > >dave > >I hate to disagree here, and prolong this discussion, but the url I >previously supplied in answer to Dr. Fleming's query does still work and >the site is in perfect working order. I just checked it, after reading >this message. > >It's not the most user-friendly, and maybe that's why some of you are >having trouble downloading it. If you can access it, it might be a good >source of some usable scores. > >http://www.bh2000.net/score/ > >Daniel Hancock >Springfield, Missouri > >****************************************************************** >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: >List-Digest: >List-Unsubscribe: > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Read only the mail you want - ><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/spamguard/*http://promotions.yaho= o.com/new_mail/static/protection.html>Yahoo! >Mail SpamGuard.      
(back) Subject: Re: Old Chestnuts -- some of them stale From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:10:20 EST   In a message dated 1/19/05 7:12:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, mead@eagle.ca =   writes:   > Were you familiar with: "He touched me, ohhhh, he touched me..."?   OMG -- you're gonna make my nightmares return.  
(back) Subject: Fisk open house From: "Mark Nelson" <mark.edward.nelson@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:38:11 -0500   Listers:   C. B. Fisk is hosting an open house Saturday January 22 from 2-6, in Gloucester MA for Opus 126, a 3 manual organ being built for St. Paul's Episcopal Church, Greenville, NC. Everyone is welcome. Probably not a beach day!   There is more information at our website. www.cbfisk.com   Mark Nelson  
(back) Subject: Re: I hate to be the bearer of bad news ... From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:11:49 EST   Yes, sadly, it IS true. I live two blocks from this church, and heard all = the commotion last night but did not know until I drove past it on my way to practice this morning that it had burned. (I cannot see it from where I = live but heard helicopters and fire trucks all night long). According to the Boston =   Globe, the magnificent Hook organ is probably completely destroyed. A very = sad sight, indeed.   Cheers, Bill H. Boston (Jamaica Plain)  
(back) Subject: Re: Good Music From: "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:15:17 -0800 (PST)   amen   Scott Montgomery <montre1978@yahoo.com> wrote:I'm sure people thought that = some of Bach's music was crap too. I know....unbelievable, but there is = proof that people found his chorale preludes confusing along with many = other things. Times were different, just as they are now. If we have the = attitude that its ok to allow only these "secular sounding church songs" = then why even consider getting a music degree and learning about all the = great masters when all we need to know is playing 3-4 different chords. Many people have become accustomed to these "hymns" (guitar songs) because = there was a period where music was suppose allow the congregation to sing. = (As if hymns weren't good enough.) Hymns survived how many hundreds of = years before then? Speaking as a 26 year old catholic that did not = witness pre-Vatican music or services, this music was created for people = to participate that have never participated before. Easy, simple, = hip....for the 60's and maybe 70's. But what about now? I think its = "dorky" to sing these songs, even stupid at times because i don't feel = like singing Carpenter music. (We've only just Begun.....to Love = God.....sit around the table and love...man) Puke! I had my children's choir sing Here, I am Lord last weekend. I found this = descant in the ritual song hymnal and we tried it out. The kids were so = bored. Isn't this a piece that "speaks to the people?" (A old director = always told me that.....speaks to the people.) Just take a look at this = song and look at all the long notes in it. What congregation holds a note = 4 beats and then waits 4 beats and comes in again. The energy is lost the = second the first phrase starts.   So where do we all stand? I believe that you can mix in some of these = songs occasionally to makes the few who still like them happy. I know my = congregation of 1100 families would rather sing "Praise to the Lord" than = "We are Called" by David Haas. That is basically what it all comes down too: the music the director = likes, and the background of the congregation.           Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
(back) Subject: Hymns From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:33:03 -0600   What about that old classic, "Drop kick me, Jesus, through the Goalpost of Life"?   Dennis Steckley   "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss        
(back) Subject: RE: Organ rags From: "Shawn M. Gingrich" <shawn.gingrich@firstumchershey.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:11:31 -0500   I played a program of transcriptions in March for which I arranged 3 Joplin pieces for organ: Bethena (Concert Waltz) Combination March and Elite Syncopations. They are engraved with Finale. If you'd like to request a copy, email me privately for details. shawn.gingrich@firstumchershey.org   -------|\----- Shawn M. Gingrich, Director of Music Ministry -------|/----- First United Methodist Church ------/|------ Hershey, PA 17033 -----|-(-)---- 717-533-9668 ext. 108 ------\|/----- shawn.gingrich@firstumchershey.org o/ http://fumc-hershey.org   -----Original Message----- > On 18 Jan 2005 at 23:09, Jarle Fagerheim expounded: >=20 > > Chatters, > > > > Searching for new repertoire, I found "Scott Joplin for Organ, arr.=20 > > Biggs" at Bodensee Musikversand. What are these arrangements like?=20 > > Can any of you recommend other organ rags? I think it'd be fun to=20 > > learn some! > > > > Jarle > > http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: getting back "on topic" From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:47:44 EST   Dale wrote:   There is at least one other (if not several) internet users' list(s) = relating to HYMNODY. Can we please get back on the "general" topic of organs, organ =   literature, maintenance, building, tuning, composers of organ music? *******************************************************   I don't know about you, Dale, but on a given Sunday, I play three hymns = but only two pieces of "literature". And, I play it on a pipe organ--which = must be tuned, maintained and which some of us have to compose for. I fail to see = the irrelevance of hymnody, in general or in specific, to a list dedidcated = to organists, their instruments, and their profession.   (Out of deference to those whom are interested in spelling and grammar, = and whom deny the latin-germanic roots of English grammar which allow for the natural verb-modifying preposition split which places the preposition at = the end of the sentence, I offer "....for which we have to compose").   Some of these threads become tiresome, to be sure. I'm positive that I = have contributed tiresome posts to tiresome, weary threads. However, many of us = in mainstream denominations spend quite a bit of time with hymn playing, and = I for one have learned quite a bit on this list through these threads devoted to =   hymns in general.   With a wink and one raised eyebrow,   Pax, Bill H. Boston        
(back) Subject: RE: misunderstood texts From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:01:05 +0800     Cute, and it's going on my office door, but LaPrise really did die back on = 4 April 1996. (http://www.cnn.com/US/9604/10/newsbriefs/) Kinda got oversha= dowed by that Tanya Harding divorce debacle. It's a sad commentary on our t= imes when the ice skating world dominates so forcefully over high-culture m= usic.   -- Margo's one-liner has been on the bulletin board for several years.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>   >=20 > With all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment, it is > worth reflecting on the death of a very important person which almost went > un-noticed last week. Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey" > died peacefully at the age of 93. >=20 > The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin. T= hey > put his left leg in --- and then the trouble started... >=20 > Will Light > Coventry UK >=20   >=20 > Margo > What if the hokey-pokey IS what it's all about??? >=20   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: I hate to be the bearer of bad news ... From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:28:21 EST   In a message dated 1/19/05 9:13:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, DERREINETOR@aol.com writes:   > Yes, sadly, it IS true. I live two blocks from this church, and heard = all > the commotion last night but did not know until I drove past it on my = way to > practice this morning that it had burned. (I cannot see it from where I = live > but heard helicopters and fire trucks all night long). According to the = Boston > Globe, the magnificent Hook organ is probably completely destroyed. A = very > sad sight, indeed.   reminds me AGAIN of the book, "divine inspiration" by jane langton, which apparently no one on this list has read. an interesting read, since it = pertains to organs & organists, and is about a fire which destroyed a huge old = organ in a huge old fictional boston church.   scot  
(back) Subject: RE: Sacred Musician or What? From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:51:46 -0500   "Organist and Choirmaster" would be my druthers. This term does omit any suggestion of responsibility for the singing of the congregation, but a title can't say everything that a whole page of job description can.   "Parish Musician" sounds awfully lonely to me. Do any of us want to be in a parish in which we're the ONLY musician? A Choirmaster" is someone who helps other people to be musicians, too: that's a large part of the point.   Furthermore, "the parish musician" sounds as though one can be expected to bring an accordion to entertain the crowd at a congregational pot luck with just as much alacrity as playing the organ (or whatever) at the liturgy. It implies signing a blank check, and no doubt that's what some employers have in mind.    
(back) Subject: RE: Evaluating Church Organists From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:00:01 -0500   > Does anyone have a list or suggestions of things I should focus on, such as technique, choice of music, ability to both lead and accompany congregational singing, 'timing' (for lack of a better word) of=20 congregational responces, etc.   > Richard Spittel   Excellent. Too many organists are, whether formally or informally but quite effectively, evaluated on every conceivable criterion *except* the quality of the music they make.=20   If there are opportunities for improvisation in the service, you might comment on this. (I blush to admit, hardly excelling in this department myself.)    
(back) Subject: RE: Evaluating Church Organists From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:59:33 -0500   Kip wrote:   > Just a thought on this subject that no one else has written about. I = got the feeling from the original letter that the Pastor may be looking = for some=20 _positive_ evaluation from a knowledgeable outsider to support the job = that=20 his competant organist is doing against some in-church griping. The = "person=20 in the congregation who is 'responsible' for doing this has their own = agenda.   It looks as though you and I are in the minority here. I replied without = reading prior replies, and it turns out that almost everyone says = quickly and urgently that this is a fishy proposition, and he should run = in the opposite direction from it. They make some good cautionary = points and they could be right. If one doesn't bear these possibilities = in mind, one risks being party to a hatchet job on a professional = colleague, and I want no part of that doing that, or recommending it, or = facilitating it. With that caveat, however, I'd like to stand my = ground.   Our occupation is the kind that has a Guild-- a collegial organization = that sets standards. It is at least quasi-professional. As such, we = claim that we are properly reviewed by our peers. Inasmuch as most of = us are one of a kind in our work places, with maybe an assistant or = apprentice but no actual peers, it is necessary to call upon = disinterested outside experts for peer review.   In this thread, eyebrows are raised because it is such an unusual = proposition, and we're not certain that the organist knows about it-- = but shouldn't it be stated standard practice? Most of us would be = better off if it were, I think. No other criterion could approach the = objectivity of such a contribution. The pastor should be congratulated = for acknowledging his own incompetence, and those of his parishioners, = in certain technical areas. The ignorami control freaks who assume = that they're the expert in every subject under the sun, and who may well = have their own grudges or axes to grind to boot, outnumber these ten to = one and do a hundred times the damage. From committees of know-it-all = yokels with more power than sense, good Lord deliver us!   Assuming that this is a regular part of the process, it might be = interesting to ponder whether we (as organists) should be told in = advance exactly *when* a visiting consultant will show up to monitor a = service. The fairest way, I'd say, would be sometimes and sometimes = not. We should be given an opportunity to show ourselves at our best. = On the other hand, we should be held accountable as well for what we do = in the weekly round, when it is tempting to assume that we can cut = corners because nobody in the congregation is any the wiser.   Churches take some pride in, and benefit from, the fact that their = services are open to the public. I believe firmly that not only should = this be true when it is claimed to be true, but they should not try to = duck what might be a few possibly uncomfortable consequences of that = fact-- such as that a stranger might walk in unannounced and write up a = report card on the proceedings (cf. "The Mystery Worshipper" at = http://ship-of-fools.com/). A refusal to submit oneself to such = scrutiny is cowardice, either outright or by appealing to more cultural = relativism than either church folk in general, or members of our = vanishing m=E9tier in particular, can sincerely propound.  
(back) Subject: Favorite Hymns From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:04:31 -0800   Well, I was all set to add an addendum to my list of favorite hymns - noting some favorite "soft, not-strong" selections. But it seems that others are apparently tiring of this thread, so I'll not continue it.   But I -am- wondering ... Is hymnody indeed off-topic to this list? I know that the posting guidelines are rather more structured and restricted on other pipe organ lists, but my impression was that Pipechat was a little more loosely defined. Pardon my ignorance if that is not the case.   And I do know there are other, more pigeonholed, lists ... Theatre Organs ... Tracker Organs ... Electronic Organs ... Rodgers Organs ... Allen Organs ... Baldwin Organs ... Conn Organs (list for Conns both with and without Tellers add-ons) ... Hammond Organs ... Reed Organs ... Choral Music .... Plainsong ... Gospel ... Hymnody ... Handbells ... Carillons (both Real Bells and Bongatrons) .... There are probably even special lists for Favorite Console Clutter and Appropriate Footwear! Good Lord, if I joined all these groups, just to stay on-topic, I'd be trying to manage even MORE email. And I get too much already, as it is.   ~ C      
(back) Subject: Malines and BDO pedalboards From: <robian@esc.net.au> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:58:48 +1030   Thank you Brent Johnson for the tip off re Wicks AGO specifications. SHH! SHH! I won't tell anyone!   And now, does anyone know where I can find specifications and illustrations for BDO and Malines pedalboards.   Robian.    
(back) Subject: Re: Rubbishy hymns From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:33:42 +0800   A few years ago I was asked to play for a service in which there were a number of children. The young minister produced a book of so-called children's hymns. One of the gems he used started "Thank you God for my brekky, Boom, boom,. boom!"   Enough to make any self respecting child part with theirs. There were several other gems in ths book. Bob Elms.       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 17/01/2005