PipeChat Digest #5122 - Friday, January 28, 2005
 
1 rank Cymbal
  by "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com>
Re: My answer about hybrids
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Any other new[s] from Westminster?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Antiphonal division
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
perspective (was Westminster)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
RE: suggestions for antiphonal ranks?
  by "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com>
Apple pie
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
RE: 1 rank Cymbal
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: My answer about hybrids
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
RE: New MP3 avaialable - Richard White's Toccata
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms
  by "Merry Foxworth" <m.foxworth@verizon.net>
RE: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
J.V. Roberts
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: 1 rank Cymbal From: "Daniel Hancock" <dhancock@brpae.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:08:00 -0600   >>I'm glad to hear you say this. I'd always rather see more individual >>and smaller compound stops in an organ than huge compound stops. =20   >Further to this. In Auckland here there is an organ which has a 1rk Cymbal >on the Great. It breaks a lot, and gives a wonderful silvery sparkly sheen, >without a trace of screech or unpleasantness, to full Great, and works very >well also over Great to 15th without a Mixture in between.=20   >Ross   What is the pitch/are the pitches of a 1rk Cymbal? Does the pitch change throughout the compass (doesn't that question sound stupid!)   Daniel  
(back) Subject: Re: My answer about hybrids From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:18:18 EST   Dear Glenda:   The piano and pipes or piano and digital should stay relatively even. The real question is quality of the choice of organ. I've seen people actually go out and purchase eight ranks of pipes and a new digital organ. At this point, a decision should be made for all pipe or the best quality digital but not both, but one or the other. I'd rather see a smaller well designed pipe organ. Or on the other hand a well endowed digital with all the bells and whistles and no pipes. If pipes already exist as an integral organ I've seen and heard some fine projects with digital additions. In other words I can't see lighting a 50 cent cigar with a $50. lighter. I like to keep things in perspective.   In my view, if the church can afford eight ranks of pipes, why not go all the way, instead of half an organ, go fifteen or sixteen ranks and two manuals add midi, and piston memory and be done with it. If only one or two ranks of pipes of 49 notes, get the complete digital and the full system of speakers. I've seen these, and actually tried to use the pipes for my cousin's funeral. They were too loud, wouldn't stay in tune with the electronic pre-digital and the bottom octave was electronic white noise. Nooooooo Thank you! I don't call that an organ. The electronic voices sounded pretty bad because of dirty contacts and worked intermittently. The pipes weren't voiced for the room, just slapped up there to say there are your pipes. This is Crap!   Best advise, in the 100K or more category buy a pipe organ, if money is short or tight Brand X. If a pipe organ already exists and money is tight or space is tight add digital of high quality with a sensor for the = pipes. The hybred idea is to make people think the church has bought a pipe organ when all they really have is a compromise and a poor one at that.   Pianos rise and fall in pitch just like pipes do. Tune the piano about the same time as the pipe organ and all should go rather well.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Any other new[s] from Westminster? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:43:02 EST   Dear Mr. Lind: As somebody with two degrees in architecture, I can assure you that I = was a perspective student for nine years.   SMG  
(back) Subject: Re: Antiphonal division From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:52:26 EST   The original thread IIRC was about a church buying a four manual Allen and the pastor wanting an eight to ten stop pipe antiphonal. My feeling is if you are considering a digital organ in the $200k plus range why spend another $150k plus on pipes? At that $350K would buy a complete three manual pipe organ of modest size that can be added to later. I did offer my thoughts on a ten stop pipe antiphonal. Because these were the only pipes in the organ I did extend some ranks, but this situation should go all pipes. I know people don't like to wait 3-5 years for their organ, but hey, It might be worth the wait.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: perspective (was Westminster) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:11:51 -0600   Worrying about vanishing points, I hope you didn't lose your perspective when you went into organbuilding. :-)   Bob Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> To: <lindr@core.com>; <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: Any other new[s] from Westminster?     > Dear Mr. Lind: > As somebody with two degrees in architecture, I can assure you that = I was > a perspective student for nine years. > > SMG    
(back) Subject: RE: suggestions for antiphonal ranks? From: "Cole" <rcolev@woh.rr.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:28:58 -0500   My maternal grandmother, born 1875, was fond of using the term. She was born in Columbiana County, Ohio. I grew up at her knee and thought the = term was as "American as apple pie", although a bit archaic. Both my sister and =   myself have been known to use that interjection on occasion. We both play the organ. Cole Votaw -- Springfield, Ohio, USA   Ross wrote: >Alan, >Yes. Though old-fashioned, the word dates from 1673 and is a >perfectly-acceptable term, defined in the Oxford Engl.Dict. as expressing >contempt, impatience or disgust. > >Used these days, it would seem to need a :-) beside it, as it's not meant = to >be nasty, perhaps a bit like the "Yeah, right". > >Both just Brit, but NZ as well, and therefore probably also of other >Commonwealth countries.     -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 1/25/2005      
(back) Subject: Apple pie From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:13:22 +0100 (CET)   --- Cole <rcolev@woh.rr.com> wrote: > My maternal grandmother, born 1875, was fond of > using the term. She was > born in Columbiana County, Ohio. I grew up at her > knee and thought the term > was as "American as apple pie", although a bit > archaic.   Well, there's a British apple pie recipe dating from 1381, which goes as follows: "Tak gode Applys and gode Spycis and Figys and reyfons and Perys and wan they are wel ybrayed colourd wyth Safron wel and do yt in a cofyn and do yt forth to bake wel."   Sounds delicious ;)   - Jarle http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 12:50:30 -0500       On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:20:51 -0800 (PST) Stephen Roberts <sroberts01@snet.net> writes:   Dear List:Just because one hasn't heard a term in the urban Northeast doesn't mean that it isn't in use elsewhere. It's a very big country between the two coasts. Be careful whom you call a "provincial", or whose speech you deem un-American, for the very terms you cite may have a long and venerable, though regional, history.     Hear Hear!!   The only criteria for "proper" English is common usage. I suppose that can be held on a regional basis as well.   Here in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania we have a Mennonite population (not Amish, they are a splinter group) numbering in the multiple tens of thousands. (They're everywhere!)   A number of words and phrases common among the Mennonites have crept into general usage "amongst us English".   Many of these, I find charming, efficient, and perhaps more descriptive than that which is found in your "Funk and Wagnalls."   "It wonders me that a one-rank zymbel could ever work."   "That organ should be rebuilt. It has enufa cyphers."   "You have to run the board-edges over the joinder, if you intend to have them glue-joined."   "Slow primaries? Are you sure? What for an action does the organ have?"   I could go on, but I assume you get the idea.   Even inflection, amongst the Mennonites, makes more sense. In the English phrase "he is 42 years old" the English accent the word "old". Why? Our brethren here accent the word "years". Makes more sense to me.         On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:20:51 -0800 (PST) Stephen Roberts <sroberts01@snet.net> writes:   To make this at least somewhat on topic: speech was not the only manifestation of the English roots of rural Southerners. Their musical tradition also shows strong influences from the folk music of England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. Early American folk melodies are often pentatonic or modal, a common feature of folksong from the Great Britain and Ireland. Just look at a tune like "New Britain" (Amazing Grace) , "Holy Manna" (Brethren, we have met to worship), or "Light" (Sometimes a light surprises--one of my favorite tunes from early America), and one will quickly see what I mean. The last tune, "Light", came from Joshua Leavitt's <Christian Lyre> of 1831-32, an original copy of which I have here as I write this message. It's a very interesting publication; unlike most shape-note tune books such as B.F. White's "The Sacred Harp", it is on two staves.     Many of you might find it interesting that the Mennonite congregations here that use printed music, utilize shape notes. There are music presses here that print all kinds of music in shape notes, even the organ works of Bach! All of the Mennonite hymnals and song books which include the music, are printed in shape notes.   (By the way, the music in these hymnals is referred to only as the "notes." You see, if it is sung, it is not music. Everything that is sung, is sung in praise of the Lord. Music, as a term, is reserved for instrumentals and secular varieties.)       Jim
(back) Subject: RE: 1 rank Cymbal From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:10:07 +1300   >What is the pitch/are the pitches of a 1rk Cymbal? Does the pitch change throughout the compass (doesn't that question sound stupid!)   I haven't checked where the breaks are in recent years so don't remember exactly, but there are about five breaks throughout. If I remember = rightly, though, the stop begins as a 36th. I should add that this stop is in a well-placed instrument in a school chapel seating about 700. Good = acoustics. The result would certainly not be as effective in a small building or one with dead acoustics.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: My answer about hybrids From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:22:07 +0800   Dirty contacts?? But pipe organs have contacts too. Don't they become = dirty at times, but unless there are other factors such as polluted atmosphere = or excessive humidity only after a long time? Why should the contacts on digital be any different? Our pipeorgan which has digital reeds on the = pedal only, has key contacts that are 39 years old AND we are on the edge of a harbour with its salty winds but there has been no cleaning of contacts = yet. And sure, pianos drift a little in pitch but in the opposite direction to pipes. Heating a piano string sends it flat. Heating an organ pipe sends = it sharp. We use piano and organ together at times. The piano is tuned to the =   organ and not vice versa. It is not a major problem. The organ described = by Ron seems to me to be a pretty lousy installation and not one you can use = as an example of a normal installation at all. A company building stuff such = as described here deserves to go out of business in a hurry!White noise in an =   organ? Pshaw! as Ross would say! Bob Elms.     > Dear Glenda: > The piano and pipes or piano and digital should stay relatively even.   (snip)   .. I've seen these, and actually tried > to use the pipes for my cousin's funeral. They were too loud, wouldn't > stay in tune with the electronic pre-digital and the bottom octave > was electronic white noise. Nooooooo Thank you! I don't call that > an organ. The electronic voices sounded pretty bad because of > dirty contacts and worked intermittently. The pipes weren't voiced for > the room, just slapped up there to say there are your pipes. This > is Crap! > > Best advise, in the 100K or more category buy a pipe organ, if money is > short or tight Brand X. If a pipe organ already exists and money is = tight > or space is tight add digital of high quality with a sensor for the > pipes. > The hybred idea is to make people think the church has bought a pipe > organ when all they really have is a compromise and a poor one at that. > > Pianos rise and fall in pitch just like pipes do. Tune the piano about > the same time as the pipe organ and all should go rather well. > > Ron Severin       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.5 - Release Date: 26/01/2005    
(back) Subject: RE: New MP3 avaialable - Richard White's Toccata From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:26:05 -0600   I apologize for being so tardy to respond to this. Generally in the evenings lately there are so many things competing for my attention that I've not had the chance to listen to Jonathan's offerings.   The White Toccata was really cool - sounded hard.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms From: "Merry Foxworth" <m.foxworth@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:53:24 -0500   How about "Ain't, man, when the little red house makes by, the train is = all"???     =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-=20   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions:=20 "There let the pealing organ blow,=20 To the full-voiced choir below,=20 In service high, and anthems clear,=20 As may with sweetness, through mine ear,=20 Dissolve me into ecstasies,=20 And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes".=20 John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).=20   Merry Foxworth Open Door Realty=20 Boston, MA 02131 =20 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim McFarland=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:50 PM Subject: Re: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms         On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:20:51 -0800 (PST) Stephen Roberts = <sroberts01@snet.net> writes:   Dear List:Just because one hasn't heard a term in the urban Northeast = doesn't mean that it isn't in use elsewhere. It's a very big country = between the two coasts. Be careful whom you call a "provincial", or = whose speech you deem un-American, for the very terms you cite may have = a long and venerable, though regional, history.=20     Hear Hear!!   The only criteria for "proper" English is common usage. I suppose = that can be held on a regional basis as well.   Here in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania we have a Mennonite population = (not Amish, they are a splinter group) numbering in the multiple tens of = thousands. (They're everywhere!)   A number of words and phrases common among the Mennonites have crept = into general usage "amongst us English".   Many of these, I find charming, efficient, and perhaps more = descriptive than that which is found in your "Funk and Wagnalls."   "It wonders me that a one-rank zymbel could ever work."   "That organ should be rebuilt. It has enufa cyphers."   "You have to run the board-edges over the joinder, if you intend to = have them glue-joined."   "Slow primaries? Are you sure? What for an action does the organ = have?"   I could go on, but I assume you get the idea.   Even inflection, amongst the Mennonites, makes more sense. In the = English phrase "he is 42 years old" the English accent the word "old". = Why? Our brethren here accent the word "years". Makes more sense to = me.         On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:20:51 -0800 (PST) Stephen Roberts = <sroberts01@snet.net> writes:   To make this at least somewhat on topic: speech was not the only = manifestation of the English roots of rural Southerners. Their musical = tradition also shows strong influences from the folk music of England, = Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. Early American folk melodies are often = pentatonic or modal, a common feature of folksong from the Great Britain = and Ireland. Just look at a tune like "New Britain" (Amazing Grace) , = "Holy Manna" (Brethren, we have met to worship), or "Light" (Sometimes a = light surprises--one of my favorite tunes from early America), and one = will quickly see what I mean. The last tune, "Light", came from Joshua = Leavitt's <Christian Lyre> of 1831-32, an original copy of which I have = here as I write this message. It's a very interesting publication; = unlike most shape-note tune books such as B.F. White's "The Sacred = Harp", it is on two staves.     Many of you might find it interesting that the Mennonite congregations = here that use printed music, utilize shape notes. There are music = presses here that print all kinds of music in shape notes, even the = organ works of Bach! All of the Mennonite hymnals and song books which = include the music, are printed in shape notes.   (By the way, the music in these hymnals is referred to only as the = "notes." You see, if it is sung, it is not music. Everything that is = sung, is sung in praise of the Lord. Music, as a term, is reserved for = instrumentals and secular varieties.)       Jim    
(back) Subject: RE: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:43:55 -0600   And this translates to?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Merry Foxworth Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:53 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: "Pshaw" and other archaic terms   How about "Ain't, man, when the little red house makes by, the train is all"??? =A0        
(back) Subject: J.V. Roberts From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 01:14:03 EST   My choir will be singing one of their favorite old war horses this Sunday = -- Seek Ye the Lord by J.V. Roberts. Does anyone have any biographical information about this composer they'd be willing to share? I've had no = luck finding anything! Thanks! Steve Steven Weyand Folkers St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL USA