PipeChat Digest #5433 - Friday, July 1, 2005
Tritle on The Cape - 6-24-05
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Sampling and more
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis.jan@gmail.com>
Re: Sampling and more
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
The reasonable man....or not...as the case may be
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Sampling and more
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Sampling
  by "Brad Richards" <richards_brad@hotmail.com>
Re: The reasonable man....or not...as the case may be
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Tritle on The Cape - 6-24-05
  by "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net>
RE: Sampling
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: How would you rank "service" music...
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat   Symbolism in music ,  Austin
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
Re: the instrument is not to be sampled without the builder's express con
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>

(back) Subject: Tritle on The Cape - 6-24-05 From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:00:47 -0400   Kent Tritle at West Parish Meeting House, West Barnstable, Cape Cod, Mass.   Friday, June 24, 2005 at 7:30 p.m.       Contrary to some premature reports of its demise, THE ORGAN RECITAL IS = ALIVE AND WELL, and lives on Cape Cod! Kent Tritle (rhymes with Title) played = the dedication recital on the newest Mander Organ in the venerable West Parish =   Meeting House in West Barnstable, MA. Kent, as most will know, is Organist =   and Director of Music Ministries at the church of St. Ignatius Loyola on Park Avenue in New York. Wonderful things happen there, and if you want = more information, check out the church's very beautiful and informative Website =   at: http://www.saintignatiusloyola.org/       Bles-sed (or cur-sed) are they that drive out on The Cape on a summer Friday. (6/24/05), I and a friend who never becomes drowsy at the wheel, headed out from here (Western Connecticut) at 2:30, and arrived at the = West Parish Meeting House, West Barnstable, about two minutes before the beginning of the recital, at 7:30 p.m. I would not have missed that beginning for anything. As some will know, the Organist and Director of Music of this church is Babette Bach. I believe at one time, she made some =   cameo appearances on at least one of these Organ lists. Kent Tritle began his brief opening remarks by telling us that he was particularly delighted =   to play in this church, having always wanted to play on an Organ that had been played by Bach! It took a moment, but ere long, a slow-building laughter began, involving more and more people, some of whom were having = the remark repeated (or explained) to them, and it became a mighty roar! What = a lovely moment!       I am, of course, going to read out the program to you, say a few words = about how Kent treated each work, and where relevant, how it related to the = design of the Organ. It will all mean a lot more to you if you will access the meeting house Website, where you can read the specification, and also, through many pictures, get a feeling for this delightful and historic building, and its new Organ. http://www.westparish.org/ Here also, you =   will find a full biography of Kent Tritle.       From 21 stops (plus two more in the Pedal by transmission from the Great), =   without compromise, Kent produced the rather versatile program which follows.       First, the (very) Grand Dialogue of Louis Marchand (1669-1723), a man = whose music was known to Bach, rather well, in fact, Bach having copied out the complete Premier Livre d'Orgue for his own use. The Grand Dialogue is sectional, with designated tone colors for each section. Kent really did troll the Organ for all possibilities. For one section, he used a rich palette of 8' tone that was positively lush. The following statement, I could make about any number of works on this program: "Kent really sold = this music through his playing, his registration, and often through his helpful =   remarks - this to an audience that just may not have had experience with music of the styles presented." By the way, John Henderson (A Directory of =   Composers for Organ) gives Marchand some extra years, showing the year of his death as 1732, rather than the 23 of the program. I have meant to ask John to do the same for me, but forgot, and I have also forgotten to write =   an Organ piece!       Next, from the Mass for Convents, of Francois Couperin (1668-1733), Tierce =   en Taille, played with a lovely, gentle, forward movement, with the ornamented melody receiving the most wonderful, supple ornamentation - totally beguiling.       The Offertoire of this Mass is jaunty and wonderful, really full of fun, = and Kent made sure that no one in the audience could miss the point.       This whole French Classical section met with much appreciative applause, = and then for something completely different:       J. S. Bach: An Wasserflussen Babylon (BWV 653), this played on three = stops, which Kent explained and demonstrated. The cantus (in tenor) was the 8' = Open Diapason, the perfect sound. The accompaniment was on the Swell Stopped Diapason, which was also coupled to the Pedal 16' Bourdon. In his talk before this piece, Kent suggested that it is a work that Organists most = love to play. I don't see it programmed very often, but with this player and = for this audience, it gave us a most wonderful and reflective few moments of repose.       Here followed a stunning performance of the Toccata, Adagio, and Fugue. = The Toccata was crisp and clean, and I am sure I have never heard those = somewhat treacherous Pedal passages played more expressively. For the Adagio, Kent used the Oboe with tremulant, and then, to continue the rather soothing effect of the Adagio, at the end of the second bar of the Grave, he spaciously, from bottom up, arpeggiated the first chord. The Fugue was, as =   announced, in fact, a wonderful dance, which ended the first half of the program.       INTERMISSION: Reveling in the Cape Cod Air Conditioning, as Barbara Owen named it, which had kept us so comfortably cool inside, it was good to stretch the legs on the lawns surrounding the building, and to greet old friends. What an enormous crowd, and a happy one at that!       Adding yet more variety to the proceedings, the second half of the program =   began with the Mendelssohn First Sonata, in F Minor. The first movement = was played with wonderful drive. The echo section appeared on the Swell with = the box closed, very ethereal, indeed. What words can one use to explain or describe a Mendelssohn Adagio? None! They speak for themselves, and did so =   eloquently on this happy occasion. The rather remarkable Andante = recitativo is surely one of the most subtle but intricate creations in all = Mendelssohn, and after the virtuosic and beautiful first movement, we were ready for these confections, the Adagio and Andante. Kent tore into the <Allegro = assai vivace> with great vigor, without any of the necessary clarity being lost. =   Lots of cheers at the end, and well-deserved.       A totally charming Largo and Fugue by William Selby followed. Selby (1738-1798) was English, but settled in the U.S. at nearby King's Chapel = in Boston (when it was no longer the King's). Following that, a lovely Siciliano of John Stanley.       Well, like Mendelssohn, didn't Johannes Brahms just do Adagios for Organ well!? We heard the Choral Prelude, Herzliebster Jesu, a beautiful calm before the final storm. Kent spoke beforehand of how he would use several = 8' stops combined for the Romantic sound wanted for music of the period. On a =   small Organ like this, ideally, every stop will blend happily with every other, so it can serve several purposes. It worked quite well.       The program closed with the Allegro from the Sixth Symphony of Charles = Marie Widor, often performed alone, without the rest of the Symphony, so well = does it stand alone. If one wants to ensure that an audience will be listening carefully, how about: "The Pedal in this piece has a disco beat?" Wow! = Well, all ears were wide open and listening!       After the applause died away enough (which took quite a while), Kent = offered to conduct a vote by show of hands, concerning what sort of encore people would like! That's a new one on me! On offer were: Brahms on a 4' Flute - or - Couperin on Trumpets. Rather an odd choice, but yes, you've guessed = it, and we had another Couperin movement, followed by the short trek to = Jenkins Hall, where one of the loveliest possible spreads of good things awaited = us. This church does know how to do it - ALL!       To sum up, the playing was brilliant.       The program itself was brilliantly conceived to be of interest throughout.       A great deal of real teaching took place in the course of well-chosen remarks throughout the concert. This was a perfect evening of Organ music. =   The Organ lived up to all expectations, and I am glad that John Mander was =   able to be here from London to soak up the good feeling.       Another concert has recently been announced for the Meetinghouse. It's on Sunday evening, July 17th, at 7:30. The Organist is Dr. Stephen May, a new =   name to me, but while you are on the Meetinghouse Website, you will find = his complete and very impressive bio. and I hope The Cape might just beckon = you for that weekend. It's a bit of a trek, but I certainly have every = intention of being there. There is no information about the program yet.       Cheers to all,       Malcolm Wechsler   www.mander-organs.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Sampling and more From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis.jan@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:03:33 -0700   On 7/1/05, Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   > If you were to sample the engine sound of a Jaguar your friend > purchased, and wanted to make a device to recreate that sound, and > place it in a Ford Aspire hatchback, and sold it as having an authentic > Jaguar sound, I am pretty sure you would have some legal issues, > without having permission from Jaguar to do such a thing, regardless of > who ownership is conveyed to. Builders are rightfully very proud of > their instruments, after all of the hard work invested in them, and > have an interest in the long term future of those instruments.   .... and yet, the Mazda Miata (now MX-5) was built on the premise of the English 2 seat roadster with a resonable replication of the sound as well.   "Enter the 1990 Miata. It had a zippy DOHC 1.8L engine, and the build quality and the mechanicals were bullet proof. It did everything the English tried to do and did it a whole lot better." (http://www.mtdemocrat.com/auto/miata052799.shtml)       --=20 Jan Nijhuis nijhuis.jan@gmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Sampling and more From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:19:29 EDT   >If you were to sample the engine sound of a Jaguar your friend >purchased, and wanted to make a device to recreate that sound, and >place it in a Ford Aspire hatchback, and sold it as having an authentic >Jaguar sound, I am pretty sure you would have some legal issues, >without having permission from Jaguar to do such a thing, regardless of >who ownership is conveyed to.   Ford owns Jaguar, so that argument would be akin to Allen's custom = department (headed by Larry Phelps) sampling some of the Lawrence Phleps organs in = the late 80's and early 90's leading to the development of the Allen Classic I =   organ, that if I remember correctly, is a digital recreation of his organ = at Hexham Abbey in England. There would be some sort of direct tie of the = two companies--Ford/Jag; Allen/Phelps.   I don't know why a company would want to sample a lot of the pipe work = that inhabits the churches that scatter the countryside, because so much of it = is mediocre at best. Mediocre pipework produces mediocre samples. If a = company is going to sample something, at least sample some good pipework. I've heard =   some samples that had rough speech, were unevenly voiced, and were just = plain ugly sounds, and no matter how the samples were manipulated they still = sounded ugly. At least there are a couple of digital companies who have sense to = get the best of the best.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: The reasonable man....or not...as the case may be From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:58:48 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Let battle commence......   Perhaps Sebastian could tell us of "new" or "unique" ways of voicing a Gedact which haven't been done before, and possibly better.   Or a Violone, or a Diapason, or a Gemshorn etc etc.   Short of "inventing" a new organ register such as Skinner did with the French Horn, what is created now which is "unique" or in any way "new?"   In fact, it is the digital organ makers who have produced "new" ways of making sound, and have the potential to creat "unique" sounds.....whether entirely musical or not, as the case may be.   Now, if Sebastian is referring to the process by which an new organ is voiced and finished to match the acoustic of a building, then I would entirely agree with him; but this was not that to which I was referring.   I'd like to bet that if Sebastian, or any other organ-builder, were to lift a pipe out of any organ they ever built, they would find another pipe somewhere in the world which matched it almost exactly, given enough time and resolve.   The best digital instruments are "voiced" to match the acoustic, which is a similar "ear" process to that used by a pipe-voicer, but a whole lot easier to effect. Any organ builder who simply buys in pipes voiced at a bench, and slots them in without further attention, deserves the ire of those who have to live with the result. The same thing is true of electronic instruments.   Of course, there is a further legal nicety to consider about "intellectual property."   If an organ-builders buys pipes ready voiced, and then slots them into the windchest without changing them, then the architect of the building has as much right over the finished sound as the voicer of the pipes. In this case, the "intellectual property" of an individual pipe rests with the pipe-supplier, but the resltant sound in the organ rests with the pipe-voicer and the architect, unless there is a specific transfer of those rights to the commissioning party (the organ builder).   "Intellectual property" is quite seperate from the business of ownership, and is often sold-on to third-parties as an asset, without any material goods being exchanged.   So I wonder, is Sebastian suggesting that he has a brain, and assuming that he has, does he want money merely for what emerges from it?   I'm not quite sure whether this would have a ready market or not.   All this talk about "intellectual property" reminds me of the writer and wit, George Bernard-Shaw.   Seated next to a Duchess, he asked her if she would sleep with him for =A310.   The outraged Duchess replied, "Certainly not Mr Shaw!"     George Bernard-Shaw persisted, "Well Madam, would you sleep with me for =A350,000?"   The Duchess smiled, and replied coyly, "Well I may consider it, Mr Shaw."   Goerge Bernard Shaw quipped, "So Madam, we have established what you are. It is merely the price we are haggling about!"   So what WE have to decide, is whether the work of Sebastian (or any other organ builder) has value or worth, and if so, what is the price of sampling it per pipe?   If it works out at more than $1 per pipe, then it's probably going to be very much cheaper, and quite probably better, to sample a Schnitger, a Schulze or a Fr.Willis, on which there could not possibly be any "copyright" whatsoever.   You pays your money and limits your choice, I suppose.   Thank heavens that law is based on the principle of "the reasonable man."   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > > > "Of course, in the normal course of things, > nothing is ever "new" or > "unique" in pipe-voicing." > > What an insulting falsehood. > >       ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Sampling and more From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   There is no authentic Jaguar sound which isn't either 6 or 12 cylinders.   Only Ford could slot in a V8.......grrrrrrrrrr.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- RMB10@aol.com wrote:   > >If you were to sample the engine sound of a Jaguar > your friend > >purchased.......   > Ford owns Jaguar, so that argument would be akin to > Allen's custom department   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Sampling From: "Brad Richards" <richards_brad@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:12:14 +0000   The builder of an organ can specify anything he wants. Just as Cinemark Theatres can specify in a real estate sale of an old theatre that the property cannot be used as a movie theatre. They are protecting the business they operate in, from competition. As a builder I have the right =   to do the same thing. I am protecting myself from competition.   As for the ridiculous statement about no pipes are "new". From a physics standpoint, if a fourier series was plotted out of every pipe in the world =   (even all those duplicate strings in the Wanamaker organ), you would never =   find two pipes that had the same waveforms and harmonic series at the same =   amplitudes, NEVER. When a pipe is sampled this is exactly what you would get, the exact harmonic series at the exact amplitudes. This is something =   that could be proven in court. For those of you that do not know what a fourier series is.... It is the beakdown of a complex waveform (a string pipe for example)into its component waveforms (the fundamental and its harmonic series), at their corresponding amplitudes. (volumes).   In my opinion as a Physicist and a builder, Sampling of organ pipes is = theft of intellectual property, the same as Vanilla Ice stealing a line of music =   from a Queen/David Bowie song. Identical when looked at from a scientific =   standpoint, with no creativity involved.   Brad R. Richards Frels Pipe Organs      
(back) Subject: Re: The reasonable man....or not...as the case may be From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:16:30 EDT     In a message dated 07/01/05 12:59:35 PM, cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk (Colin Mitchell) writes:   << Let battle commence...... >>   There will be no battle. You will always, ALWAYS win, no matter what.    
(back) Subject: Re: Tritle on The Cape - 6-24-05 From: "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:43:55 -0400   I just wanted to add a few of my own remarks to what Malcolm has already posted. I will speak more to the organ than the music as it has been reviewed ably already. The organ, which Malcolm has a vested bias about, is indeed a small but extremely versatile instrument. I too was fortunate enough to have braved the awful traffic to arrive there much earlier than Malcolm. After Kent's brilliant recital I can only say that this organ can play almost anything and do it well. How fortunate Ms. Bach and the members of West Parish are to have this wonderful instrument in their venerable meetinghouse. I look forward to more concerts there in the future.   Cheers, Mack   Malcolm Wechsler wrote:   >Kent Tritle at West Parish Meeting House, West Barnstable, Cape Cod, = Mass. > >Friday, June 24, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. > > > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Sampling From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:46:11 -0700   I don't wish to address the moral issues around digitally sampled instruments. I realize that there are some "boutique" firms, such as = Walker Technical, who do an excellent job of sampling pipes, and I applaud the effort.   In general, I don't think pipe organ builders need worry about sampling of their stops, as I have yet to hear a digital organ by a mainline manufacturer that can hold a candle to a pipe organ. I realize that they are getting better and that the layman may be misled, but laymen are = misled by ugly pipe organ tone all the time, right?   I can recall the times I have had to regularly play a digital organ, and I remember how I did not practice, and my imagination while playing was not = as active. I remember struggling trying to find a supportive registration = that did not blast you in the face.   The recent digital instruments I have played are much better than those I remember from the 80's, and if I were working in an institution with a digital organ, I would certainly prefer a modern one, flaws and all, to = one of the older models. Much the same as I prefer a better sounding pipe = organ to one that is inferior.   I rather think the decline in pipe organs in smaller churches can be = linked to a decline in interest in traditional church music, and a decline in trained organists. Every church I know of that has true interest in a = pipe organ has a pipe organ. They are not all fabulous, but churches large and small that want pipes can find them if they go to the trouble!   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: RE: Sampling OFFTOPIC From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:47:29 -0700   I'm sorry, I'd take a Ford-built Jaguar any day     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Colin Mitchell Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 10:02 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Sampling and more   Hello,   There is no authentic Jaguar sound which isn't either 6 or 12 cylinders.   Only Ford could slot in a V8.......grrrrrrrrrr.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- RMB10@aol.com wrote:   > >If you were to sample the engine sound of a Jaguar > your friend > >purchased.......   > Ford owns Jaguar, so that argument would be akin to > Allen's custom department          
(back) Subject: Re: How would you rank "service" music... From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:55:06 EDT   Interesting topic. For "service" music I generally play organ literature. My church is proud of their pipe organ, and they hired me to play it = to its full advantage. (This does not mean FORTISSIMO playing. Anybody who = can push the Tutti piston can do that.) They deserve the best I can offer. On any given Sunday, a visitor might find the Opening Voluntary to be = a composition by Bach, Mendelssohn or Franck as well as Daquin, Stanley, = even one of George Shearing's transcriptions of Gospel Hymns. What I generally = do not do is play works such as "Chorale Variations on 'On Eagle's Wings' = for the Liturgically Offended". (Don't tell me, someone's probably published this =   already!) I'm not bashing modern day composers of "service" music. Many of = these pieces have their own place in the "repertoire", especially for the less experienced player or those who need inspiration for their own service = playing needs. I used to play lots of interludes from "The Parish Organist" when = I worked for a Lutheran church throughout my high school years. These = pieces can serve as models for improvisation as well. As far as other "service" music, I tend to improvise on themes appropriate for the day for the interludes during the Episcopalian = liturgy, including a rather lengthy improvisation during the distribution of Holy Communion. =   The congregation at my church actually listens to the Voluntary. Any newcomers who feel compelled to carry on a conversation while I am = playing (and folks are supposed to be praying) are discreetly "shushed". Contrary to what you might think, these visitors tend to return to the church and become members. You may think this is elitist, and perhaps it is. But it is elitist = in the best sense of the word. The congregation is exposed to high quality = music and liturgy, enjoys it, and comes back for more. Our church is GROWING as = a result. The only negative comment I've received about the organ music is "You =   don't play enough Bach". All this happens in a family oriented suburban parish. No old money endowment or paid soloists here! Cheers, Justin Hartz  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Symbolism in music , Austin From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 15:01:36 -0400     >From: "Paul Smith" <kipsmith@getgoin.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:48:26 -0500 >   > >Unfortunately it is true that "real" music, the music >preferred in church by most of the listers (YOU know what I >mean!) requires that some learning has gone on in our >formitive years to be fully appreciated.   I agree from a musical standpoint, but from a simple approach of week-to-week spirituality or simple enjoyment, great/good music can speak for itself much as a stained glass window can tell a story to an illerate person.   Simple analogies, such as "the rolling accompaniment (can) symbolize the turbulent waters upon which Jesus approached Peter... and the strong solo melody, played on the Krummhorn (can) symbolise Jesus walking on the water ... " or "the wandering solo melody, played on the Oboe, (can) symbolise Peter's initial confidence in stepping out of the boat into the angry sea."   These things may not be musicologically accurate, but one of the beauties of music is that it can speak in so many different ways. To impart this to our listeners, it is critical that we, as performers or "ministers", must relax and open our minds and imaginations.   ---------   I just visited the Austin Organ site http://www.austinorgans.com/ and there is no official statement regarding the position/state of the company at this time. I do recall the announcement by Kimberlee months ago that Austin was closing.   However, there should always be hope. It may be too early for this to be reflected in the website, and its difficult to tell when it was last updated.   Austin made a significant contribution and impact on the musical history of our country and even the world. I only hope that they do not go through the same in-out-in-out that several other companies did which rather left a "bad taste" in our mouths after it was all over. Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow... Bruce and the Baskerbeagles   HowlingAcres http://www.baskerbeagles.com Natural products for pets & people http://www.naturalzone.biz  
(back) Subject: Re: the instrument is not to be sampled without the builder's express consent From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:39:14 -0500   I have heard of pipe organ builders including a clause in the contract for the organ that the instrument is not to be sampled without their = permission. This has nothing to do with intellectual property, but is rather a restrictive covenant placed by the maker on the use of the instrument. Although I am not a lawyer, I think this would probably be easier to = uphold in court than treating the sound as a copyright issue.   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 9:59 AM Subject: Re: the instrument is not to be sampled without the builder's express consent     > Hello, > > An interesting legal conundrum, since one would have > to consider the individual sampled sounds as part of > the whole for the purposes of any sampling to be > "substantially the same." >