PipeChat Digest #5447 - Wednesday, July 6, 2005
 
Pipe Organ Builders Need Not Fear...
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Impressionistic music
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Trumpets of Fire
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Trumpets of Fire
  by "Terry Charles" <hitidesin@yahoo.com>
Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music
  by "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net>
Re: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "Robert Bell" <bobbell@optonline.net>
RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music
  by "Gil Page" <kestrel6@earthlink.net>
Re: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ev1.net>
Re: Standing ovations
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
 

(back) Subject: Pipe Organ Builders Need Not Fear... From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:38:56 -0700   I have not played any electroinc organs for quite a few years, save for the Hammond+Leslie that I play every week in one of my churches and that doesn't really count since its function is definitely "niched" -- at least, as far as my use of it goes.   So, when the occasion arose to play a funeral as a fill-in for a church who has just gotten a brand-new digital organ, I was naturally curious to see how far they have come in the past few years.   Well, I'll only say this much. Pipe organ builders have very little to worry about if this is the best "off the shelf" electronic instrument to be had. There's no point in naming names; just suffice it to be said that it is a product from one of the major electronic instrument builders.   Granted, there may be SOME competition from the high-end "boutique digital" builders ---- but certainly as far as average electronic organs are concerned, well, I was quite disappointed in what this one had to offer.   It was a largish 2-manual instrument which, I believe, is of the "sampled pipe" varieties. In addition to the extremely annoying, cheap, stoopid light-up stop controls which defy every rule and convention of console design, the thing really sounded like crap, 'scuse my English.   Ironically, though, it appears this particular builder has taken two steps forward and one step backward.   What I mean is, it used to be that individual stops sounded pretty okay but when you started building ensembles, the deficiencies really reared their ugly heads as the various stops mooshed together into an excruciating, ear-pearcing blast that sounded like an over-amplified kazoo.   But with this organ, the ensembles actually sounded pretty good --- not convincingly pipelike of course, but not too bad really. In a big room with good acoustics and lots of speakers, the Pleno would probably "pass." [While in a small, dead room like the one being discussed, with too-few speakers to fill even that modest space, it still sounds flat and phony - like hearing a CD of an organ.]   Then, oddly enough, the individual stops for the most part sounded very crummy to me. Especially the reeds and strings. They still just aren't getting 'em right. This MAY have to do with yet another instance of electronic organ salesmen shooting themselves in the foot --- installing their products with the absolutely most barebone audio systems. [When are they going to GET IT that you just can't expect to get good organ sound out of three of four crummy little speaker boxes???]   Then another thing about this particular instrument - there's all this needless gadget-stuff junking it up --- melody couplers, expression couplers, coupler-couplers, transposers, Pedal to Great Bass for cheaters, of course a huge artillery of MIDI "libraries" and playback equipment, a 3.5" floppy disk reader (now how cheesy is THAT??!), and Lord-knows what else. I did see a hundred-odd-page instruction manual sitting there. Good Lord.   Yet there are no divisional pistons and only 8 generals. Only two reeds on the Swell (16 and 8), both of which are supposed to serve dual-duty as chorus and solo reeds; and two very screechy, teeth-hurting chorus reeds on the Great - 8 and 4, again with no solo reeds. Whose bright idea was all THAT?   And there were a lot of other insipid and annoying things about the console and instrument that I don't see any point in enumerating. Those who play and/or sell and/or buy them either notice the shortcomings, or they don't. One could only wish that the parishes and pastors who buy them were more discriminating.   This particular pastor was beaming from ear to ear as he showed me to the console, saying how elated everyone is with it. He said, "It's got ALL tha "'bells and whistles.'" I thought to myself, "y'all need fewer 'bells and whistles' and more kinds of other stuff - like pipes and chests and reservoirs, but I didn't say anything.   I did ask him what the organist thinks of it. "Oh geee, you know ... you organist types....! He wanted us to getta pipe organ but there just wasn't the money for it, and no room without major structural modifications. Besides, he's away a lot and we don't have a substitute. So, geez -- with the Middie Feeechers ya got here [yes, he had a funny accent - from Wiskansen I think], he can pre-record all the music ahead of time, doncha know, and all we have to do is POOSH the BUTTON! How's THAT for somethin'?!" Big smile as he patted me on the head. Ick.   Right. Good thing they hadn't figured out yet how to "POOSH the BUTTON" or Yers Trooley would not have been sitting there today.......   Anyway, as I said -- while these organs will certainly always find a very needy market, I am fairly sure that, again, if this is the best they can do with a good-sized state-of-the-art instrument, then, really, pipe organs will be here to stay. For a very long time. I certainly wasn't impressed, at any rate.   Similarly, as for all the wailing and teeth-gnashing about pipe samples .... well, there again: From what I heard, you end up with only the most vestigial remains of any sound whatsoever from sampled pipes. The sounds were so filtered, processed, altered, tweaked, twittered, skewed, fricasseed and reverbed that they don't sound any better or any worse than standard electronic organ stops. They still sound ... electronic.   So much so, that I think all this "sampling" business is just a lot of hooey -- this generation of electronic builders' version of the same kind of hooey that they used to use to try to pass off their stuff as legitimate. (Anyone remember "Whind" "Celeste Tuning" and the infamous 'C' stop??!)   "And So It Goes."      
(back) Subject: Impressionistic music From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:10:38 EDT   Please ask your piano teacher what "impressionistic" music is. Ask him or =   her to PLAY examples for you, not just talk about them. Look at impressionistic paintings as well. It sounds like you were required to play a wonderful piece of Ravel's by learning the notes and NOT the music.     Justin gives excellent advice here. In one of my keybaord lit (piano AND organ) classes in college (actually it was a graduate level class that I = was admitted to take as an elective) we had to take impressionistic works and = write about them and make a presentation to the class. It was actually quite = fun to hear what people had to say about the works after listening to them. I = found that looking at works of impressionistic art gave me a great deal of = insight into the minds of the composers. Maybe it was the Absinthe they were = drinking, or the cloud of smoke from the opium dens that a lot of them hung out in, = but there is an effect of the music that almost supercedes the notes. I hate = to put it that way, because the notes ARE important, but the effect of the = music is what the composer is after, just like an impressionistic painter = achieved with their technique of not tinting paint, using heavy coats of paint, = letting the paint blend together to create soft edges and intermingled colors, all = of which produced the soft, hazy style.   Impressionistic music used new compositional techniques to create the same =   sort of effects--use of whole tone scales, multi-modal harmonies, lots of parallel motion, all to give the blurry effect of the music.   Studying other forms of art of the same era will give great insight into = what was in the mind of artists of the period and enlighten us as performers. = The impressionistic visual artists were the ones who sparked the composers and =   authors of the day to begin experimenting with new and different = compositional styles. It benefits us to study the parallel artistic areas because so = often music and the visual arts and literature are intertwined. We can learn a = lot from going to museums and looking at the paintings and sculpture of the = period and also by studying the architecture of the era. I think Goethe said = that architecture was frozen music--or something to that effect.     Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Trumpets of Fire From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:59:08 -0400   >>Got some amazing trumpet stops on that Apocalypse there!<<   Ah yes, that's one of AOC's innovations; the Incendiary Trumpet. Another feature unique to an Apocalypse organ is the Brimstonemaster III console.   - Nate   P.S. Actually, there is one organ that I tune that has a reed that was done over by Steinkampf in the 70's or 80's that I call the "Trumpet of death". When we tune it I bring an extra pair of headphones for the person at the console.    
(back) Subject: Re: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 20:06:32 -0700   Thanks!   So far over 200 people have listened... several have responded, all positively (no rotten eggs or fruit yet)   I've decided to do a Suite or collection of these:   Dem Bones Deep River Swing Low 'Zekiel Saw the Wheel   now... where did that darn muse go.....   Randolph Runyon wrote:   > Jonathan, it is absolutely inspired! I love it. > > Randy Runyon > > > On Jul 4, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Jonathan Orwig wrote:     -- Jonathan Orwig Evensong Music, Media and Graphics New Organ and Choral Music http://www.evensongmusic.net    
(back) Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:15:45 +1200         >Dem Bones Deep River Swing Low 'Zekiel Saw the Wheel   Remembering that the magnificent "Deep River" is not a spiritual, but from the musical "Showboat" from about 60 years ago.   My favourite recording of "Deep River" is sung by William Warfield. = Somehow more satisfying voice and musicianship than Paul Robeson, to my ears. He would have been called "black" back then, but I s'pose he'd have to be called "African-American" these days. A truly memorable voice.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Trumpets of Fire From: "Terry Charles" <hitidesin@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:16:19 -0700 (PDT)   >P.S. Actually, there is one organ that I tune that has a reed that was >done over by Steinkampf in the 70's or 80's that I call the "Trumpet of >death". Uhmm... as I ponder this... I want to say that Jack wa responsible for TWO incredible reeds in the specification of the Kirk Organ. # 1 =3D now termed a French Trumpet - was formed from an E M Skinner Cornopean... it IS fabulous and stays IN TUNE like a rock! The other... is a military secret... LOL! TC  
(back) Subject: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music From: "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:17:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)   I am looking for any collections or sheets of Renaissance and Medieval or= gan music, preferable church/worship music. Any suggestions on where to find any.=0D =0D Regards,=0D =0D Mark Gilbert=0D =20
(back) Subject: Re: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 20:39:29 -0700   TheShieling wrote:   > > > >>Dem Bones >> >> >Deep River >Swing Low >'Zekiel Saw the Wheel > >Remembering that the magnificent "Deep River" is not a spiritual, but = from >the musical "Showboat" from about 60 years ago. > > > Hmmm....   My research shows it was in existence BEFORE then see: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2298/is_n4_v15/ai_20633039     >My favourite recording of "Deep River" is sung by William Warfield. = Somehow >more satisfying voice and musicianship than Paul Robeson, to my ears. He >would have been called "black" back then, but I s'pose he'd have to be >called "African-American" these days. A truly memorable voice. > >Ross > > Cheers   -- Jonathan Orwig Evensong Music, Media and Graphics New Organ and Choral Music http://www.evensongmusic.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:42:09 EDT   Hello mark_52@comcast.net,     In reference to your comment: I am looking for any collections or sheets of Renaissance and Medieval = organ music, preferable church/worship music. Any suggestions on where to find any.     ~~~~~~~~~~` For starters, I'd take a look at William Byrd's music, much of which is available from Dover Books.   I will be VERY interested to see these replies, as I am involved in a Medieval recreation group.   Victoria    
(back) Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "Robert Bell" <bobbell@optonline.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 01:05:37 -0400   Ross, The song from "Showboat" was "Old Man River" not "Deep River". "Deep River" is indeed an old spiritual.   And I perfer Paul Robson 's version of "Old Man River" <tee hee>     Bob   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TheShieling Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:16 PM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones         >Dem Bones Deep River Swing Low 'Zekiel Saw the Wheel   Remembering that the magnificent "Deep River" is not a spiritual, but from the musical "Showboat" from about 60 years ago.   My favourite recording of "Deep River" is sung by William Warfield. = Somehow more satisfying voice and musicianship than Paul Robeson, to my ears. He would have been called "black" back then, but I s'pose he'd have to be called "African-American" these days. A truly memorable voice.   Ross     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>   -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/40 - Release Date: 7/4/2005   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/40 - Release Date: 7/4/2005    
(back) Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:28:38 +1200   >Ross, The song from "Showboat" was "Old Man River" not "Deep River". "Deep River" is indeed an old spiritual.   Of course! I'm guilty of silly forgetfulness. Many apologies, profound and abject obeisances to the List, etc.etc. As I'm only 63 I can't even claim = it was a "senior moment." Hey, though, I did remember Satchmo's pronouncing = his own name in that Hello Dolly recording. :-)   In any event, I Iove 'em both.   Ross      
(back) Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:15:02 +0100   I think you are getting confused here! Deep River is an old spiritual. The song from Showboat is "Old Man River"   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TheShieling Sent: 06 July 2005 04:16 To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones         >Dem Bones Deep River Swing Low 'Zekiel Saw the Wheel   Remembering that the magnificent "Deep River" is not a spiritual, but from the musical "Showboat" from about 60 years ago.   My favourite recording of "Deep River" is sung by William Warfield. = Somehow more satisfying voice and musicianship than Paul Robeson, to my ears. He would have been called "black" back then, but I s'pose he'd have to be called "African-American" these days. A truly memorable voice.   Ross     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:16:21 +0100   I'm only 63 too - and I have PLENTY of senior moments!!   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TheShieling Sent: 06 July 2005 07:29 To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: MP3 file: - Orwig Spirituals for Organ - no. 1 Dem Bones   >Ross, The song from "Showboat" was "Old Man River" not "Deep River". "Deep River" is indeed an old spiritual.   Of course! I'm guilty of silly forgetfulness. Many apologies, profound = and abject obeisances to the List, etc.etc. As I'm only 63 I can't even = claim it was a "senior moment." Hey, though, I did remember Satchmo's pronouncing = his own name in that Hello Dolly recording. :-)   In any event, I Iove 'em both.=20   Ross       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music From: "Gil Page" <kestrel6@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 03:17:39 -0400   There's simply too much to list easily, but I spotted this in the OHS catalogue: WL500009 Renaisance 1500-1550, Vol. 9 ed. Kimberly Marshall, includes works from Italy, France, Germany, England, and Spain $49.00. While I have not seen this collection, I have studied briefly with Dr. Marshall who is one of the preeminent authorities on Medieval and Renaisance organ music. She also has made several recordings of this repertoire.   Regards. Gil Page     Myosotis51@aol.com wrote:   >Hello mark_52@comcast.net, > > >In reference to your comment: >I am looking for any collections or sheets of Renaissance and Medieval = organ >music, preferable church/worship music. Any suggestions on where to = find >any. > >  
(back) Subject: Re: Looking for Renaissance and Medieval Music From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 01:51:37 -0500   Mark wrote:   >I am looking for any collections or sheets of Renaissance and Medieval = organ >music, preferable church/worship music. Any suggestions on where to find >any. > Any good music store, or the on-line resellers, including the music reselling activities of the Organ Historical Society.   As to titles to look for, About 20 years ago, or so, the British firm of Faber & Faber produced as set of 18 volumnes of music of the 16, and 17th centuries, the eighteen volumes being issued as six groups of three, covering Britain, France, Spain, Italy, and North and South Germany. Edition Peters, has the complete works of Bruhns, and the complete organ works of Tallis. Master's Music reprinted the works of Victoria or Arauxo (or both), and Editio Musica Budapest, reprinted Il Transilvano of Diruta. The complete works of Scheideman, Schein, and Schutz are available, too.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: Standing ovations From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 03:54:43 -0500   Hello, PipeChatters: Culture changes, . . . and in the case of my denomination, we have changed radically over a very short period of only about 40 years. When I was a youngster, it was common practice to give a round of "AMENs!!!" when approving somthing said, sung, or played. We NEVER applauded in church, . . . for any reason. Then, in about 1970-ish, we began to have a shift in how we approved of things said, sung, or played. Applause began to happen. I believe it was because the people were being taught in public schools that it was okay to applaud to express appreciation or approval. It annoyed me, while recording public band and orchestra performances of school performing groups, that it was almost always the children who started clapping (because the music stopped) between movements of a symphonic work or suite. This was accepted as "okay" because they children did not know better, ...but I'm not sure now that I reflect on the situations. Everything about public concerts, especially the rock and roll groups, depends on the noisy applause of the audience, . . . including cheers, as "normal." THAT influence has broken over into our churches and our concerts, even public concerts of what would be better known as "classical" music.   I'm not sure I want to go back to the stuffiness of being allowed to only express our approvals by grunting "Amen!" F. Richard Burt ..