PipeChat Digest #5467 - Friday, July 22, 2005
 
OHS Photo Gallery
  by "PipeChat Administration" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: OHS
  by "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net>
Re: OHS distorted discussions
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately
  by "Kenneth Potter" <swell_shades@yahoo.com>
Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately
  by <organmd@aol.com>
Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately
  by "Terry Charles" <hitidesin@yahoo.com>
Air conditioning ?
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Paul Ott (was Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: OHS distorted discussions
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: OHS distorted discussions
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Air conditioning ?
  by "Frances Meyers" <jack-fran1@cox.net>
RE: Air conditioning ?
  by "Steve Barker" <email@stevebarker.seriouslyinternet.com>
RE: OHS distorted discussions
  by "Steve Barker" <email@stevebarker.seriouslyinternet.com>
Re: Paul Ott
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: Power surge
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: OHS Photo Gallery From: "PipeChat Administration" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 05:16:06 -0500   Harry Martenas has posted about 35 photos that he took at OHS to the PipeChat Gallery. The URL is: http://gallery.pipechat.org/gallery/index.php You may have to try the URL a couple of times since this is fairly new.   There are a couple of more people that will be posting photos but haven't gotten to do that as of yet. If anyone else wants to post photos please send us a note at the PipeChat Admin address and I will set-up a log-in for you.   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: OHS From: "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:26:16 -0400     No one as far as I can see has really explained this in the context it was heard in. There was a piece played by Renea Waligora, composed by her husband, Robin Dinda, titled Dinosauria, "A Mesozoic Menagerie for Organ and Narrator," sort of a Jurassic Park Carnival of the Animals.   This was one section, relatively short,and amusing I find, even at 64+, nothing offensive about it and it was well suited to the piece. It was like rap but not with the usual offensive nature of the commercial stuff.   Perhaps, if the narrator hadn't been a high school Junior, the complainants wouldn't have been as snobby about it.   Mack   Mac Hayes wrote:   > Brad Richards wrote: > >> For those of us (thousands) who could not attend OHS, please tell us > > > what Pipe Organ rap is.      
(back) Subject: Re: OHS distorted discussions From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:44:58 EDT   In a message dated 07/21/05 1:51:53 AM, lawrenceandy@gmail.com writes:   << What a disappointment that the main topic of discussion after the convention is complaints about churches not being cool enough. Here in = New England, its pretty hard for us to justify A/C for the 3 weeks of summer that are = so very hot. >>   The reason this thing has been so miserably thrashed to death is that respondents have deliberately ignored the actual point here, for reasons = known only to their way of thinking. Twisting topics around and distorting what = others say in order to make unrelated points is, as Andy pointed out, a complete waste of time and energy. Reading what is written, rather than reading = what one thinks one wants to see just to make an unrelated point, would have = resulted in nearly no back and forth correspondence on this matter. To end this with a desperate attempt at clarity: This is not about whether you live in the tropics, or whether New England churches need to = be fortified, or what the "death threshhold by age-group from heat stroke" = statistics are. If one knows two years in advance that three hundred people are coming = to a church in which the windows are painted or screwed shut, one might plan twenty minutes some time within those two years to back a screw out or cut =   through the paint. One has two years to find out where the switch for the = fan is. One has two years in which to bring these concerns to the church. I = understand that these churches are poor, and that it costs between five and seven = thousand dollars just to open a door or use a screwdriver, and many times that just = to close a door upon leaving the building, but what's a guy to do?  
(back) Subject: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately From: "Kenneth Potter" <swell_shades@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT)   I am very interested in all the discussion about air conditioning in churches and lack thereof at OHS conventions. I sometimes wonder if one of the reasons the mainline congregations are failing and the megachurches are booming doesn't have a lot to do with the fact that the world just lives by completely different comfort standards than when I was young.   In rural lndiana, we sweated our way through life in the summer. In church we fanned ourselves with funeral parlor fans. No churches had air conditioning and seldom electric fans. Almost no homes had air conditioning. I never really resented the lack of it, because I never experienced it except in movie theatres. We just sat on the front porch with a flyswatter and a pitcher of iced tea. Summer felt sweet and wonderful. If we worked up a sweat, we cooled off in the creek.   The ability of people to feel comfortable in those conditions just doesn't exist anymore, but churches and schools are the last to catch on. Even today, schools and churches for the most part air condition their offices to ice cold comfort, but do nothing for the folks in the pews, or in the classrooms. I know it's incredibly expensive, but people just expect it in the world these days. Imagine a shopping mall or theatre, buses, taxis, airplanes with no cooling. They wouldn't stay in business for two seconds. Schools have their constituency prisoner. You have to go to school, so you just suffer through til you graduate. Churches on the other hand, don't hold people prisoner. Folks can worship wherever they want, or not at all, and there are many air conditioned churches around. You might have to change your theology to something a bit more fundamentalist, but those places are booming. Businesses eat the expense in order to stay in business.   At my last job the stained glass windows had originally opened, with long cords operating even the high clerestory windows. In the chancel there had been a ventilator in the roof to let the hot air flow out. However, at some point the ventilator had started leaking and they took it out and patched the roof. In the sixties, they had put glass over the stained glass windows to save heat. Each window became a little solar heat factory with the trapped hot air and sunlight being absorbed through the darker stained glass. Of course, no longer could any window be opened. The only source of fresh air was a small door in the south transept and the front door, and even though it was roasty-toasty inside, no one had the ambition to open the doors more than 20 minutes before the service. You just broiled in there in the summer, and the organ became just about unplayable. Sitting up in the choir loft was torture.   I'm now subbing, and last Sunday I was playing a gorgeous Ott tracker from Germany in a beautiful church with Tiffany windows. In fact i'm there for five weeks. The air was so dense with humidity I couldn't breathe. At the end of my postlude (Gade's Tonstuck I) I was drenched. It's a piece that demands quite a bit of physical activity, especially on the pedals. My hands were dripping sweat onto the lovely ebony manual keys till my fingers were literally skating on the keys. I don't know how I got through it without crashing and burning, but all went well. After I peeled myself off the bench, I cooled down in the rector's office which was ice cold. Then ran for my air-conditioned car for the drive to my air conditioned home, picking up an enormous diet coke with ice at a Wendy's drive-up window. I passed on the invitation to their parish picnic.   Next month I'm playing a nice 3 manual Moller in a gorgeous uppity-mobile Episco-Parlour in rather low-roofed English gothic style. I don't know if they're air-conditioned or not, but am not holding out much hope. Maybe I'll be delightfully surprised.   Now I gotta have a little lunch, and then I'm going over to practice on the Ott. It will be hot, but I have to register the service for Sunday. At least I'll be in shorts and T shirt. I'll do the mininum beyond registration, and come home and practice on my nice little Moller Artiste which is in a deliciously cool living room.   My wife will be doing her radio program (classic rock) on WDFH-FM while I'm practicing. Her studio is so frigid you can't move your fingers. We need to strike a happy medium. You can hear her live on the web.   One plus at my present sub job. Someone leaves a glass of ice water on a little table by the organ for me. I've never had that happen before in all my life. Maybe we should all work that into our contracts.   Ken Potter      
(back) Subject: Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately From: <organmd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:39:58 -0400     Martin Ott is an AMerican builder, located in St. Louis, MO. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Potter <swell_shades@yahoo.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org Sent: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately           I'm now subbing, and last Sunday I was playing a gorgeous Ott tracker from Germany in a beautiful church with Tiffany windows. In fact i'm there for five weeks. The air was so dense with humidity I couldn't breathe. At the end of my postlude (Gade's Tonstuck I) I was drenched. It's a piece that demands quite a bit of physical activity, especially on the pedals. My hands were dripping sweat onto the lovely ebony manual keys till my fingers were literally skating on the keys. I don't know how I got through it without crashing and burning, but all went well. After I peeled myself off the bench, I cooled down in the rector's office which was ice cold. Then ran for my air-conditioned car for the drive to my air conditioned home, picking up an enormous diet coke with ice at a Wendy's drive-up window. I passed on the invitation to their parish picnic.      
(back) Subject: Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:44:18 -0500   Currently I play for two churches and I am a member of the church where I grew up. One of my churches is a little church built in 1901. Up in the choir loft, it is hot even though the service is at 8:45. The other church is usually relatively comfortable. For my parents' church, well, bring a winter coat. I remember once getting so chilled that my toe nails were blue for hours after church. To keep this marginally on topic, my parents' church didn't do this before they got their Buzard in 1993.   Alicia Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Potter <swell_shades@yahoo.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately     > My wife will be doing her radio program (classic rock) on WDFH-FM while > I'm practicing. Her studio is so frigid you can't move your fingers. > We need to strike a happy medium. You can hear her live on the web.      
(back) Subject: Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately From: "Terry Charles" <hitidesin@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 09:01:59 -0700 (PDT)   Improbable, but does anyone happen to have an article from the late 60's, = from the Atlanta Journal/Constitution - relating the lack of AIR CONDITIONING = in the Jewish Synagogue where Virgil Fox was playing for the AGO Convention???? I seem to recall - when Virgil announced the chorale, "Come Sweet = Death"... he also announced to the ushers a request to CLOSE the windows all along = the sides of the Synagogue in order for us to "hear" the delicate voices = rather than the "traffic sounds" from Peachtree Street. Thanks... TC  
(back) Subject: Air conditioning ? From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:58:55 +0100   The air for our choir practice this evening was delightfully conditioned.   After a VERY hard day's work .... hay-making (the old-fashioned way) .... and, isn't hay-making such a delightful rural task when observed via the canvas of a painter (such pleasant pastures, such rustic folk, such balmy breezes) and such damned hard work, such humid conditions, so much dust, = so much thirst, and so many seeds getting into all the wrong places.   And then, .............. choir practice.   And the church so cool, so serene, so pleasant.   And the air conditioned by the thick Norman stone surrounding so much air-space (void) that no-one in their right mind would think of installing =   an 'air-conditioning' system .............. now HEATING .... for 9 months = of the year ... ESSENTIAL.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman of a mind that the cold stone-work of castle and cathedrals killed more people than arrows of plagues ever did! ]   Just a few trans-Atlantic thoughts for our colonial cousins    
(back) Subject: Paul Ott (was Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:05 -0500   Martin Ott's uncle, Paul Ott was a German organ builder, and I think he is the one indicated here. There are some Paul Ott organs in the U.S.A., and = I once played the one in Trinity Episcopal Church, Ossining NY. The OHS database also lists Paul Ott instruments at 1st. Congregational, Berkeley CA; St. Thomas Lutheran Charles Town VW; The Jerry Witt Residence, Rancho Santa Fe CA; Grace Lutheran Church, River Forest IL; and The C. DeWitt Wasson Residence, Tarrytown NY.   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: <organmd@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:39 AM Subject: Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately     > > Martin Ott is an American builder, located in St. Louis, MO. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Potter <swell_shades@yahoo.com> > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Sent: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - delete immediately > > > > > > I'm now subbing, and last Sunday I was playing a gorgeous Ott tracker > from Germany in a beautiful church with Tiffany windows.      
(back) Subject: Re: OHS distorted discussions From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:28:13 -0500       > In a message dated 07/21/05 1:51:53 AM, lawrenceandy@gmail.com writes: > > << What a disappointment that the main topic of discussion after the > convention is complaints about churches not being cool enough. Here in New England, > its pretty hard for us to justify A/C for the 3 weeks of summer that are so > very hot. >>   Just a few observations on the air conditioning issue.   (1) I was admittedly very hot at the OHS, but would far rather this than return to my childhood in England where I used to sit huddled in front of the fire in houses without central heating. And that was in the summer = ...   (2) The weather in Massachusetts is only very rarely as hot as it was last week, and last week was also exceptionally humid. It would really be difficult to justify installing air conditioning when it is only this hot for a week or two every few years.   (3) If the temperature is hot, the temperature is often hotter outside = than inside, especially in churches with thick masonry walls. Under such circumstances it is wiser to keep the windows closed.   (4) Those who tuned the organs for the OHS recitals are to be commended = for succeeding in getting the instruments in very good tune in spite of the weather conditions.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: OHS distorted discussions From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:38:38 -0400     On Jul 21, 2005, at 5:28 PM, John L. Speller wrote:   > > Just a few observations on the air conditioning issue. > > (1) I was admittedly very hot at the OHS, but would far rather this > than > return to my childhood in England where I used to sit huddled in > front of > the fire in houses without central heating. And that was in the > summer ...   Is it still that way in England, or has global warming had the same effect it has in France?   > > (2) The weather in Massachusetts is only very rarely as hot as it > was last > week, and last week was also exceptionally humid. It would really be > difficult to justify installing air conditioning when it is only > this hot > for a week or two every few years.   This is astounding! Did you actually read the post to which you are responding? He was making the suggestion that windows be made openable, not that air conditioning be installed. > > (3) If the temperature is hot, the temperature is often hotter > outside than > inside, especially in churches with thick masonry walls. Under such > circumstances it is wiser to keep the windows closed.   Not if oxygen is what is needed, and relief from endemic mold. And with a crowd of people in the pews, fresh air was definitely needed.   Still astounded, Randy Runyon  
(back) Subject: Re: Air conditioning ? From: "Frances Meyers" <jack-fran1@cox.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:45:52 -0700   Yes, I do indeed remember, having lived on a cotton and alfalfa farm in = New Mexico with over 100 degree heat. But being I was a child, I have a lot of =   sentimental memories of feeding the horses, and climbing way up high on stacks of hay bales in the barn. Another nice memory is of flopping on the =   the green alfalfa in the field which was cooling and soft, and gazing up = at clouds in the sky. Ah, some of the nice memories of childhood make you forget the bad stuff. Fran   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:58 PM Subject: Air conditioning ?     > The air for our choir practice this evening was delightfully = conditioned. > > After a VERY hard day's work .... hay-making (the old-fashioned way) = .... > and, isn't hay-making such a delightful rural task when observed via the =   > canvas of a painter (such pleasant pastures, such rustic folk, such = balmy > breezes) and such damned hard work, such humid conditions, so much dust, =   > so much thirst, and so many seeds getting into all the wrong places. > > And then, .............. choir practice. > > And the church so cool, so serene, so pleasant. > > And the air conditioned by the thick Norman stone surrounding so much > air-space (void) that no-one in their right mind would think of = installing > an 'air-conditioning' system .............. now HEATING .... for 9 = months > of the year ... ESSENTIAL. > > Harry Grove > [a.k.a. a musicman of a mind that the cold stone-work of castle and > cathedrals killed more people than arrows of plagues ever did! ] > > Just a few trans-Atlantic thoughts for our colonial cousins > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Air conditioning ? From: "Steve Barker" <email@stevebarker.seriouslyinternet.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:47:55 +0100   Harry,   Am I right in thinking you're in Rochester, UK? If so, which church are = you at? I'm down in Canterbury by work in Gravesend so drive past Rochester every day on the M2...   Steve, Canterbury UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Harry Grove Sent: 21 July 2005 20:59 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Air conditioning ?   The air for our choir practice this evening was delightfully conditioned.   After a VERY hard day's work .... hay-making (the old-fashioned way) .... and, isn't hay-making such a delightful rural task when observed via the canvas of a painter (such pleasant pastures, such rustic folk, such balmy breezes) and such damned hard work, such humid conditions, so much dust, = so much thirst, and so many seeds getting into all the wrong places.   And then, .............. choir practice.   And the church so cool, so serene, so pleasant.   And the air conditioned by the thick Norman stone surrounding so much air-space (void) that no-one in their right mind would think of installing an 'air-conditioning' system .............. now HEATING .... for 9 months = of the year ... ESSENTIAL.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a musicman of a mind that the cold stone-work of castle and cathedrals killed more people than arrows of plagues ever did! ]   Just a few trans-Atlantic thoughts for our colonial cousins     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: RE: OHS distorted discussions From: "Steve Barker" <email@stevebarker.seriouslyinternet.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:56:52 +0100     On Jul 21, 2005, at 5:28 PM, John L. Speller wrote:   > > Just a few observations on the air conditioning issue. > > (1) I was admittedly very hot at the OHS, but would far rather this > than return to my childhood in England where I used to sit huddled in > front of the fire in houses without central heating. And that was in > the summer ...   Is it still that way in England, or has global warming had the same = effect it has in France?     It's been quite a hot and humid late June and July down here in the South East of England... Can't remember the last time it rained, although not to worry, because the schools all break up tomorrow for the summer holidays, = so it will be wet and cold for the next 6 weeks... (I've got central heating but don't usually have it on from May to Mid October)   Steve, Canterbury, uk, just searching out his rain coat...    
(back) Subject: Re: Paul Ott From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:42:46 -0500   Interesting that your penultimate listing is that of Grace Lutheran, River Forest, IL. I suggest that pilgrims don't make a trip to see this--if = indeed we're talking about the main organ. I knew it was a bit of a mongrel. Schlicker figures in here more recently, and finally Len Berghaus. I recorded on this organ in 1993 and felt at that time that this was one of the best organs/acoustical venues in the Chicago area.   Bob Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: John L. Speller <jlspeller@swbell.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: Paul Ott (was Re: More Drivel about Air Conditioning - deleteimmediately)     > Martin Ott's uncle, Paul Ott was a German organ builder, and I think he = is > the one indicated here. There are some Paul Ott organs in the U.S.A., = and I > once played the one in Trinity Episcopal Church, Ossining NY. The OHS > database also lists Paul Ott instruments at 1st. Congregational, = Berkeley > CA; St. Thomas Lutheran Charles Town VW; The Jerry Witt Residence, = Rancho > Santa Fe CA; Grace Lutheran Church, River Forest IL; and The C. DeWitt > Wasson Residence, Tarrytown NY. > > John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Power surge From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:47:21 EDT   With all due respect- The footprint of a small vertical piano takes up about the same = amount of space as a Clavinova. In fact, some digital "pianos" are housed in = fake piano cases. The footprint of a pipe organ of more than two or three = ranks is much bigger than a standard pipe organ console. Climate control systems can be installed to regulate humidity levels = in all but the most unfavorable environments. These work especially well in vertical pianos. A digital organ comes much closer to approximating the sound of a = pipe organ than a digital keyboard does for an acoustic piano. The key action = of a digital organ is similar to or exactly the same as an electric or electropneumatic pipe organ. No one is ever going to be fooled into thinking the best "weighted" action of a digital keyboard is remotely similar to the action of a = piano. Nor will anyone be fooled into thinking "tracker touch" on any organ console = (pipe or non-pipe) is just like playing a tracker pipe organ. Digital keyboards are virtually useless for a student in developing manual technique. Their sound does not work well with the human voice. In = order for them to be loud enough to support singing, they are usually too loud, =   unless thousands of dollars are spent on an audio system. In that case, = you could have bough a real piano. I could go on and on, but I won't. Justin Hartz