PipeChat Digest #5476 - Thursday, July 28, 2005
 
Best Temperament for playing music from all periods
  by "Jorge Gomez" <qvixotes@yahoo.com>
RE: News
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods
  by "Thomas Dressler" <rgtd@ptdprolog.net>
OHS New Bedford MA concluded
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Charles Marie Widor, Alsace and a  Parisian=A0 organ-wrecker
  by <RUXTONCAR@aol.com>
Re: Charles Marie Widor, Alsace and a Parisian  organ-wrecker
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@comcast.net>
Re: Charles Marie Widor, Alsace and a  Parisian=A0 organ-wrecker
  by <RUXTONCAR@aol.com>
Looking for an Organ/Brass piece
  by "tdh" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Looking for an Organ/Brass piece
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: Larger Christmas works for choir and brass
  by <SWF12262@aol.com>
Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods
  by "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net>
Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods
  by "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net>
Test Message
  by "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net>
Party Pieces at Round Lake
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Fw: Re: News
  by "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net>
RE: Richard Morris
  by "dan Tevelde" <dan.tevelde@comcast.net>
 

(back) Subject: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods From: "Jorge Gomez" <qvixotes@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:19:13 +0200 (CEST)   Dear list members:   What whould be the best temperament for a new organ to play music of any period?   Many thanks for your opinions   Jorge Gomez     ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es  
(back) Subject: RE: News From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:12:12 -0500   Cool! Congrats, Travis. Which church?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Travis L. Evans Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:45 PM To: PipeChat; OrganChat Subject: News   I had told a few people this was coming up but its now official as of Sunday. The congregation I serve is making me full time as of September 1, 2005. I'm very excited as I'll be able to put my full attention to one job, instead of two.        
(back) Subject: Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods From: "Thomas Dressler" <rgtd@ptdprolog.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:38:44 -0400   That's a very difficult question to answer. I'm not sure there is a one-size-fits-all temperament, no matter what the equal temperament = devotees say. Music intended for meantone sounds pretty bad in equal because of the =   wide thirds. In 1/4 comma meantone, the thirds are mostly pure and most music written for it depends on that. This is the greatest difficulty I = have found.   Lehman's "Bach" temperament is a fairly flexible temperament for = everything except meantone music. So is Valotti. I've heard of concert piano tuners tuning pianos in Valotti for Brahms performances and hardly anyone knew, except to say the piano sounded good. The Bach temperament is basically Volotti modified to be slightly closer to equal, but not equal. = Temperaments like Werckmeister and Kirnberger color the keys more, and sound great for Baroque music and some classical era music, but don't work as well for the =   Romantic era. For music written after the transition out of meantone, = there are several options and they're all a matter of personal preference. = Kellner is often chosen by some organ builders, but I don't particularly like it, and there is no REAL historical precedent for it.   What you won't find is a temperament that really plays meantone music AND later music. Werckmeister is a fairly good choice on the early side, and = yet it still does not have the pure thirds needed to make, say, Pachelbel = sound really good.   Another very important issue that needs to be taken into consideration is the tonal design of the instrument. Brighter mixtures and brighter voicing =   really sound much better with a less equal temperament. If the voicing is more smooth, more Romantic sounding, then something closer to equal will work well.   Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this question. People have been struggling with it as long as we've had 12 tones. For those who are sensitive to it, machine tuned equal is about the worst solution. Even in the early 20th century, tuners would modify equal temperament to suit the music and to favor certain keys. That "takes the edge off" those awful thirds.   Thomas Dressler Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania   http://www.thomasdressler.com     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Gomez" <qvixotes@yahoo.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5:19 AM Subject: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods     > Dear list members: > > What whould be the best temperament for a new organ to > play music of any period? > > Many thanks for your opinions > > Jorge Gomez > > > > ______________________________________________ > Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! > Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad > http://correo.yahoo.es > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: OHS New Bedford MA concluded From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:56:57 -0400   Sorry this had taken so long. Monday, July 18, New Bedford MA -- On to more adventures after a good buffet lunch served by St. Anthony parishioners in the parish hall. We went to St. James RC (Our Lady of Guadeloupe is added as their new name after a 4 church merger to St. James). Another very large sanctuary built over a hundred years ago with vibrant windows and an 1877 Hilbourne Roosevelt Opus 29, 3M. 47 stops, moved from Trinity Church, Boston in1926 and electrified by Wm. Laws. In the 1970's severe water damage to the great windchests was caused by a clogged tower drain. The organ has essentially been unheard since then. Christopher Marks was able to play a superb recital on it, even though the Great reeds were still out of commission, and the new pastor is excited about restoring this important instrument. I spoke with him and thanked him for his concern. Bruce Gardzina was in charge of this restoration work, as well as the work done on the last organ of the convention. Then we went on to one of the now-closed churches in this merger, Ste. = Anne RC which has a beautiful highly decorated smallish c1874 Hutchings, Plaisted & Co. 2M. tracker in the right front corner. It is fervently hoped that this organ will find a new home, it is lovely. The brief "rap" music which received some PipeChat attention took place during a composition based on dinosaurs by organist Renea Waligora's husband Robin Dinda, and the Narrator was a high school Junior from Fitchburg MA where the couple now lives. Most enjoyable, an entertaining piece of music and words, with Renea at the Hutchings giving forth some great sounds. The hymn, sung well as usual, was the Shaker song "How Can I Keep from Singing?", a slightly different arrangement from the one I have used. We then had some free time to explore the historic area of the city. Unfortunately the fog made the waterfront difficult to see, but people enjoyed the Whaling Museum with an 80 foot humpback whale skeleton high above the lobby, and the Seamen's Bethel Mission nearby. The streets are of old cobblestones and many shops, especially art and antique shops, abound. Up the hill from there is the First Unitarian Church, our next stop, where the aforementioned Fred Jodry played an excellent recital on the Dutch = 1966 2M. but large Flentrop organ. I have only heard two other Flentrops, in Chicago IL and Cambridge MA, I liked this one very much, it is vibrant and flexible as to repertoire. There is a Tiffany enormous glass mosaic of = the Pilgrimage of Life in the front of the sanctuary. Diagonally across the street is a former 1821 whaling-era mansion, now The Wamsutta Club where we had an elegant prime rib dinner with "real" strawberry shortcake for dessert. (That means with homemade biscuits, fresh strawberries and real whipped cream). Several blocks again up the street brought us to the 1859 Elm St. Centre-Trinity Methodist Church for the closing recital by Peter Sykes. This church is again a merger of several Methodist congregations after it almost was closed due to lack of parishioners. This organ, installed in 1859 has a Gothic case, E.&G.G. Hook 2M. Opus 244. In 1965 Charles Fisk made some tonal changes and major renovations, and in 2000 the effort was made to restore it to the original sound. Pipework of comparable vintage was used, to good advantage. = Peter's recital was well received, he ended with the Mendelssohn First Sonata, a change from the program book, to much applause and cheering. We sang "Abide with Me" and 2 verses of "God be with You 'Til We Meet Again". A wonderful finish to a very fine OHS Convention. Looking forward to the 50th Anniversary Convention the end of June next year in the Saratoga Springs region of upstate New York, Stephen Pinel, Chairman. This Convention will include visits to Albany, Troy, Watervliet I hope, and the western end of Vermont icluding the Hildene Aeolian house organ in Manchester.  
(back) Subject: Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:02:27 -0500   The current scholarship on the matter seems to be that in order to hear period music the way it was originally heard, a meantone temperament = rather than an unequal temperament should be used. Thus for very early music one might adopt 1/4-comma meantone temperament, for early eighteenth-century music one might adopt 1/5-comma meantone temperament, and for later eighteenth-century music 1/6-comma meantone temperament. Whatever Bach = may have thought about temperaments, and whatever unequal temperament he may have chosen to have his harpsichord tuned to, I think we can have little doubt that the organs he played were tuned to 1/5- or 1/6-comma meantone.   That said, I personally find some of the unequal or "well-tempered" temperaments very satisfying to listen to. For Bach I particularly like 1/5-comma Kellner, although that is, of course, a modern "made up" temperament.   Thomas Young and Valotti, which are both attractive 1/6-comma unequal temperaments have the advantage of being sufficiently near to equal temperament that almost anything can be played in them, yet they give a distinctive tinge to different keys.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Charles Marie Widor, Alsace and a Parisian=A0 organ-wrecker From: <RUXTONCAR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:42:57 EDT   It is my understanding that Cavaille-Coll's patronage of Widor had much to = do with Widor's own experience in and understanding of organbuilding - as = well as his political neutrality as an "outsider" in the matter of the never = ending Parisian intrigues (that continue to this day). In a way they were = kindred spirits for Cavaille-Coll had come to Paris from another location and = earned his place by virtue of his talent and skill - much as Widor did.   Widor has been described as being in charge of the tonal finishing of the organ for the Moscow Conservatory, in Moscow, shortly following the death = of Cavaille-Coll. I'm sorry that I don't recall the source of this = information.   Carl Schwartz  
(back) Subject: Re: Charles Marie Widor, Alsace and a Parisian organ-wrecker From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:30:06 -0600   RUXTONCAR@aol.com wrote:   > ... Widor has been described as being in charge of the tonal finishing = of > the organ for the Moscow Conservatory, in Moscow, shortly following the > death of Cavaille-Coll. I'm sorry that I don't recall the source of this information.   Speaking of sources, can you (Carl) or anyone else here recommend some books that explain how Cavaille-Coll, supposedly a "simple" engineer, got to be so good at organ building at such an early age?   Mac Hayes Riverton, UT  
(back) Subject: Re: Charles Marie Widor, Alsace and a Parisian=A0 organ-wrecker From: <RUXTONCAR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:25:38 EDT   I have the book at my other house, but as I recall it is a compendium by Michael Murray on French Organists and Organbuilders - it provides an = interesting biography of Cavaille-Coll's early years.   His family's firm was not unimportant and he was a quick study. I think = his openess to ideas was very important, he certainly was bold and = self-confident, not in the least insecure. He was a natural...   He also made a lot of mistakes, and solved many problems that were = daunting. His good personality may have helped him over a number of obstacles as = well.   Carl Schwartz    
(back) Subject: Looking for an Organ/Brass piece From: "tdh" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:12:50 -0700 (PDT)   Jean Francaix Marche Triomphale for Organ and 4 Trumpets Way too nice of a piece. Has anyone heard of this? TDH   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Re: Looking for an Organ/Brass piece From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:29:35 EDT   In a message dated 7/27/2005 5:14:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:   Jean Francaix     _Capital BrassWorks - Music_ (http://www.capitalbrassworks.com/music.htm) = There is a contact link to order this music. The piece mentioned is all = the way down, very near the bottom of the web site. The score IS available!   Dale G. Rider , MSacredMus, CAGO Organist, Composer, Music Engraver Staff Organist - Community of Christ (RLDS) World Headquarters Complex Independence, MO, USA  
(back) Subject: Re: Larger Christmas works for choir and brass From: <SWF12262@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:48:43 EDT   >I'm in search of larger works for choir and brass quintet for Christmas Eve. (The Rutter >Gloria is out of the question, since it calls for = additional trumpet, trombone, and tympani, >and it would be way over budget. = <<sigh>>) Larger work: not over about 20 >minutes. Have you thought about the Christmas Cantata by Daniel Pinkam? Fun piece = of music, especially the final movement! Steve Steven Weyand Folkers Director of Music St. Lambert RC Church Skokie, IL USA      
(back) Subject: Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods From: "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:03:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)   Jorge,=0D =0D By temperament, do you mean Romantic/Classical/Baroque, etc., or do you h= ave something else in mind with your question?=0D =0D Personally, I find Romantic to be the most versatile, since I can elimina= te the Romanticism (what man can't, right?) and register for pre-Baroque and get a fair representation. However, the stop list must be able to accommodate that. =0D =0D Regards,=0D =0D Mark Gilbert=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Jorge Gomez=0D Date: 07/27/05 05:21:05=0D To: pipechat@pipechat.org=0D Subject: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods=0D =0D Dear list members:=0D =0D What whould be the best temperament for a new organ to=0D play music of any period?=0D =0D Many thanks for your opinions=0D =0D Jorge Gomez=0D =0D =0D =0D ______________________________________________=0D Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!=0D Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad=0D http://correo.yahoo.es=0D =0D ******************************************************************=0D "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"=0D PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics=0D HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org=0D List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org=0D Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org=0D List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org>=0D List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org>=0D List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>=0D =0D =2E
(back) Subject: Re: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods From: "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:16:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)   Jorge,=0D =0D I see from other replies to your initial question that you might have bee= n referring to tuning temperament. If so, please accept my apologies for m= y lame response to your question.=0D =0D Regards,=0D =0D Mark Gilbert =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Jorge Gomez=0D Date: 07/27/05 05:21:05=0D To: pipechat@pipechat.org=0D Subject: Best Temperament for playing music from all periods=0D =0D Dear list members:=0D =0D What whould be the best temperament for a new organ to=0D play music of any period?=0D =0D Many thanks for your opinions=0D =0D Jorge Gomez=0D =0D =0D =0D ______________________________________________=0D Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!=0D Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad=0D http://correo.yahoo.es=0D =0D ******************************************************************=0D "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"=0D PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics=0D HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org=0D List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org=0D Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org=0D List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org>=0D List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org>=0D List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>=0D =0D =2E
(back) Subject: Test Message From: "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:25:26 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)   Test message,   I have been having trouble with this address sending messages. Messages = are being returned to me with fatal errors.   Just a test.   Mark G  
(back) Subject: Party Pieces at Round Lake From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:33:08 -0400   Dear All,   Perhaps three years ago or so, I had a somewhat frantic call from Edna VanDuzee, who, with her husband Norman Walter, gives of her time, talents, =   and energies on behalf of Round Lake Auditorium and its famous Ferris = Organ. There has been a pattern in the scheduling of Organ recitals during the summer - the artist plays two identical programs, one on Sunday evening, = and another on Monday afternoon, I think at 2 p.m. By Saturday, the artist of that weekend began to realize that she was not feeling well and strong enough to give the Monday afternoon repeat recital. Edna phoned to ask if = I knew anyone, and I responded that I had enough "party pieces" in my = fingers for one good recital, but that she must realize once I have played that recital, I can't be asked again, because that's all there is! (Promise you =   won't believe that.) I trotted up there as early as possible on the = Monday, and having faxed my quickly assembled program up the previous day, I was able to begin work at the Organ. Not only is this instrument quite = playable, it is actually wonderfully comfortable. I found it drew me into the = action, if you can figure out what that means. I did not want to stop, but I made = an exception for a lovely lunch that Edna provided at a table under the bell tower, then did a bit more practice, and it was time for my Round Lake Debut!   I hope this persuades you to come to hear Agnes Armstrong THIS Sunday, the =   7th at 8 p.m., in the opening recital of this summer. She will be assisted =   by Karen Klevanosky, flute and percussion. She posted her program a few = days ago, at least on one list, and I am going to steal bandwidth just to = repeat the list of intriguing pieces in compact form. SHALL WE DANCE? Menuet symphonique, Opus 59, no. 7 - Theodore Salome (1834-1896) Quatre Danceries (Pavane, Gaillarde, Branle de Champagne, Allemande)- Claude Gervaise (fl 1540-1560) Valse, Opus 23, no. 2- Alexandre Guilmant (1837-1911) Balletto del Granduca (theme & four variations)- Jan Pieterszoon = Sweelinck (1562-1621) Danse de la Chevre- Arthur Honegger (1892-1955) Scherzo for the White Rabbit- Nigel Ogden (born 1954) INTERVAL Shall We Dance? (The King and I)- Richard Rodgers (1902-1979) The Typewriter- Leroy Anderson (1908-1975) Organ Studio Waltz, Opus 5, no. 1- Emil Hornberger (19th-century = American) The Swingin' Shepherd Blue - Moe Koffman (1928-2001) Loin du Bal (Echoes of the Ball) - Ernest Gillet (1856-1940) Badinerie, BWV 1067 - Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) The Village of Round Lake is located just south of Saratoga Springs, one mile off the I-87 Adirondack Northway.   Cheers, Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com          
(back) Subject: Fw: Re: News From: "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:47:15 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)   =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Mark=0D Date: 07/27/05 00:24:41=0D To: PipeChat=0D Subject: Re: News=0D =0D Congratulations, Travis. You are indeed quite fortunate for the appointm= ent Blessings.=0D =0D Regards,=0D =0D Mark Gilbert =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Travis L. Evans=0D Date: 07/26/05 23:47:19=0D To: PipeChat; OrganChat=0D Subject: News=0D =0D I had told a few people this was coming up but its now official as of Sun= day The congregation I serve is making me full time as of September 1, 2005= =2E=20 I'm very excited as I'll be able to put my full attention to one job, instead of two.=0D =0D Travis Evans=0D ******************************************************************=0D "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"=0D PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics=0D HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org=0D List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org=0D Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org=0D List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org>=0D List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org>=0D List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>=0D =0D =2E=0D =20
(back) Subject: RE: Richard Morris From: "dan Tevelde" <dan.tevelde@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:57:38 -0500   Hello list rodgers used to have an on-line store on their website where = you were supposed to have been able to buy cds. I'm always on the lookout for cds of various types of organs just to say that I have them in my collection. Anyway one of my friends has the Richard Morris cd you have been looking for. I want a copy to so if you send me an e-mail at dan.tevelde@comcast.net we can exchange information. By the way if anyone else on this list knows where I could get Rodgers cds let me know. My church may be looking for a new organ in a few years and we don't have = space for a pipe organ. I presume there are some people on this list who are = open to discussing electronic instruments.   Thanks, Dan