PipeChat Digest #5419 - Wednesday, June 22, 2005
 
Re: Orff (was Music for youngsters)
  by "Daniel Mitterdorfer" <danielm@arty.com.au>
Short octave pedals - am I seeing things??
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things??
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things??
  by "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things??
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things??
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
the liturgy is confusing to visitors
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Re: the liturgy is confusing to visitors
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
Re: PipeChat   PowerPoint/bulletins
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
Re: the liturgy is confusing to visitors
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: the liturgy is confusing to visitors - Not if you plan accordingly
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
a complete service leaflet does not simplify...
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Welcome back Bruce...
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: a complete service leaflet does not simplify...
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
AGO Convention pics
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Orff (was Music for youngsters) From: "Daniel Mitterdorfer" <danielm@arty.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:53:26 +1000   True, it does have a high tessitura, and I've sung it before.   I must say though, that I think its a great piece of music, and it can = teach one many things about rhythm in singing. Its also a wonderful tool for learning about harmony and orchestration. No, it doesn't contain and = organ, but I thought it worthwhile putting my two cents in.   Cheers, Daniel Mitterdorfer   Sydney, Australia   On 21/6/05 10:25 AM, "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> wrote:   > 1. It would be great if people would change the subject line when > appropriate. Is there an echo in here? > > 2. I soon tired of hearing the Orff Carmina Burana upon being confronted > with it a few times in my late teens and early 20s. In those years I > listened to virtually any and all 20th-century music with an eager and = open > mind. It's way too long and repetitious, and the high tessitura is = enough to > send any sensitive person's teeth on edge and to refuse to force amateur = (if > not professional) singers to try to get through it. Give me a break. = There > are many greater choral works to consider, including, I am told, Orff's = own > Catulli Carmina if you simply must do something by this composer. > > 3. In an attempt to bring this belabored subject on topic, I'm happy to > report that I find NO evidence of an Orff work for organ. > > Robert Lind > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> > To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: Music for youngsters > > >> Just in case you didn't know.... >> >> Orff's Carmina Burana has a part written FOR children's (boys, girls = or >> both) choir. >> Before blasting off on a subject, please make sure you know what you = are >> talking about. >> >> When in doubt, hit DELETE! > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >      
(back) Subject: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things?? From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:17:15 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Am I being really dumb or dumber, or did I just come across a photograph of an old organ in the Czech Republic with what looks like a short-octave pedal-board?   This may explain why the 18th century Czech composer Seger, having discovered the music of J S Bach, was obliged to re-write the music for short-octave instruments.   Apart from one or two old instruments in the UK, I've never come across short-octave anything, but there are a few F-compass instruments in existence.   I was aware that short-octaves are quite common for keyboards in many old instruments, but pedals also???   Help! Does anyone know about this sort of thing?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things?? From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:41:19 -0700 (PDT)   I remember C# being D on the Schitger organ pedals. I think it went = CDEFF#, then everything was normal.   Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:Hello,   Am I being really dumb or dumber, or did I just come across a photograph of an old organ in the Czech Republic with what looks like a short-octave pedal-board?   This may explain why the 18th century Czech composer Seger, having discovered the music of J S Bach, was obliged to re-write the music for short-octave instruments.   Apart from one or two old instruments in the UK, I've never come across short-octave anything, but there are a few F-compass instruments in existence.   I was aware that short-octaves are quite common for keyboards in many old instruments, but pedals also???   Help! Does anyone know about this sort of thing?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK           ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com   ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:         Scott Montgomery 1820 Scottsdale Dr. Champaign, IL 61821 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things?? From: "Scott A Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:44:01 -0700 (PDT)   Sorry, that should be Schnitger... :)   Scott A Montgomery <montre1978@yahoo.com> wrote:I remember C# being D on = the Schitger organ pedals. I think it went CDEFF#, then everything was = normal.         Scott Montgomery 1820 Scottsdale Dr. Champaign, IL 61821 217-390-0158 www.ScottMontgomeryMusic.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things?? From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:32:46 -0400   I'll step in before someone who knows what they're talking about does. . . = ..=20   I believe tht this is quite common in many older US instruments... --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: Re: Short octave pedals - am I seeing things?? From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:09:33 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Mmmmmmmmmmm!   Well....that sort of looks as if it might be the answer, except that there are some curious little stubs between what appears to be C-D and D-E. Maybe they're just there for toe location?   Somewhere (ha,ha) on my computer, buried in a mass of files relating to Eatern Europe, I have a diagram of the short-compass arrangement, and if I find it, I will see if it corresponds to the pedal short-compass on the pic I have.   Logically, with manual to pedal couplers, the notes would have to be the same as the manual bottom octave, unless I'm being sadly presumptuous, naive or just plain stupid.   Whilst on the subject of national curiosities, I came across an ancient Czech organ, with a pedal division containing just two stops.....at....wait for it....2ft and 1ft pitches!!   What is that all about, I wonder?   My Czech organ and organ-music investigation is taking all sorts of unexpected twists and turns, and I'm finding out that there are holes in my knowledge.   But just wait 'til I post details of the ENORMOUS repertoire for the organ which has been written by Czech composers, which includes not only very fine solo works, but numerous organ concertos also.   All this from a country about the size of Scotland!   It is nothing short of astonishing.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- Scott A Montgomery <montre1978@yahoo.com> wrote:   > I remember C# being D on the Schitger organ pedals. > I think it went CDEFF#, then everything was normal.       ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: the liturgy is confusing to visitors From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:01:11 -0700   =3D-> We are looking at this issue in my ELCA church, where we're concerned that the liturgy is confusing to visitors and hard for them to follow <-=3D     How about simplifying the liturgy?!      
(back) Subject: Re: the liturgy is confusing to visitors From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:08:47 -0400   >=20 >=20 >=20 > How about simplifying the liturgy?! >=20 >=20 > Brilliant!     --=20 Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Organist, Holy Cross PNCC Enfield, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music=20 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat PowerPoint/bulletins From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:02:45 -0400     >From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 06:58:46 -0400   >In my church, we stopped producing bulletins over a year >ago....   Bravo.... They are mostly used by children to draw on during the service.   >We are looking at this issue in my ELCA church, where we're >concerned that the liturgy is confusing to visitors and hard >for them to follow since they must constantly switch back >and forth from the order of worship in the bulletin to the >order in the front of the hymnal.   Since some churches seem determined to use Sunday morning worship of the Faithful for evangelizing church shoppers, why not designate members as "guides" for visitors. They can sit with the visitors and make sure that they have the right book/page and are encouraged to actively participate in the service by imitating the enthusiastic singing and responding of their guides. Then after worship they can be escorted to the coffee hour to continue getting acquainted (which likely begun during the peace chat).   An additional way to use PowerPoint/big screens to educate and inspire the congregation and visitors would be to project images which enhance the prelude music. These could be scenes of nature linking the majesty of mountains and waterfalls with the glorious sound of the pipe organ. Also, pictures of the interior of the organ could be shown, possibly highlighting a solo stop being used: "This is the Krummhorn that is being used to play the solo melody."   For examples of photos, there are some interesting photos of the interior of the 1975 Casvant 3/43 at First Baptist - Gainesville FL. Just go to < www.baskerbeagles.com > and click on "PipeOrgans." Enjoy!   An additional thought: If it is felt that printed service guides for visitors are helpful, then print just enough for visitors and request that members "wing-it."       Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow... Bruce and the Baskerbeagles   HowlingAcres http://www.baskerbeagles.com Natural products for pets & people http://www.naturalzone.biz  
(back) Subject: Re: the liturgy is confusing to visitors From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:17:45 EDT   Dear List,   A previous poster referred to seeing some excellent worship booklets in = use in an Anglo-Catholic congregation. It probably wasn't on a visit to the Anglo-Catholic congregation I serve (I would guess), but it could have = been--booklets complete with some background information and expanded "rubrics" which = make everything perfectly clear without the use of condescending language. = Friends and relatives of mine from "unchurched", Unitarian, UCC, Methodist, = Russian Orthodox and Roman Catholic backgrounds have visited our church and have = been able to follow and participate in the Mass with ease. Each and every = visitor I have invited has commented on how these booklets facilitated their = enjoyment and understanding of our worship and music. Several of these folks had = visited Episcopal churches in the past, and were grateful not to have to juggle = the prayerbook, hymnal, and various bulletins, handouts and inserts. These = seasonal worship booklets, by the way, are created with ease, in-house, using a = set of CD-ROMs available from Church Publishing. I'll bet this kind of software = is available from the publishing houses of other "liturgical" denominations.   In the past, I have served Roman Catholic and ELCA congregations that used =   similar worship guides in order to be "visitor-friendly" without having to =   sacrifice the elements of music and worship which define the very = liturgical identity (and theology) of the denomination. I have also personally = visited a Conservative Synagogue (!) that went out of their way to be = visitor-friendly using a similar kind of handout (though not as extensive of what I'm describing here).   So, folks, I guess my point is that "simplifying" the liturgy in order to = be visitor-friendly is just not necessary. In fact, it is, in my opinion, a rather cheap, short-term, "no one has to work very hard" kind of solution = to the tremendous cross-denominational migration that typifies contemporary = American Protestantism and Anglicanism. If you really want to attract visitors (and = turn them into members and better, pledging members), creating re-usable, comprehensive worship aides is a good first step. Then, try what we do in = my congregation: follow that up with a willingness of everyone in the = congregation to help a visitor navigate the service; offer regular adult education = opportunities for newcomers (and oldtimers) to learn more about your prayerbook, service = book, missal, hymn traditions, theology, etc.; above all, if you are a = "liturgical" church, celebrate what makes your denomination theologically and = liturgically unique, while emphasizing your connection to the greater Church. I = guarantee that this, in the long-term, has greater dignity and greater staying-power =   than "simplifying" (dumbing down is my preffered term) liturgy just to get = bodies in the pews.   Now, I've said my piece.   Pax, Bill H Director of Music SJE, Boston              
(back) Subject: Re: the liturgy is confusing to visitors - Not if you plan accordingly From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:13:01 EDT   =3D-> We are looking at this issue in my ELCA church, where we're concerned that the liturgy is confusing to visitors and hard for them to follow <-=3D     This has been discussed somewhat on the ELCA list. General consensus = there is that our Lutheran Liturgy is what makes us Lutheran, and there should = be some kind of standards from congregation to congregation. However, since =   there seem to be so many different forms (probably as many as there are congregations), it can be somewhat confusing to the visitor, even if they = come from another ELCA congregation. One minister says when he travels, he will = visit an ECUSA or Anglican church, because he knows what he'll be getting. = Visiting another ELCA congregation could be a real crap-shoot as to what the = service will be like. In my own congregation, [ _Click here: St. Mark's Lutheran Church Baltimore_ (http://www.stmarksluthbaltimore.org/) ] we try to make the Liturgy as = painless as possible for visitors. All the readings, prayers, psalm, and hymns not in the LBW are = included in the sunday bulletin, so they only have to go between the LBW and the bulletin. (WOV is only used in the Chapel). We don't use any inserts = which tend to fall out and slide several pews forward. For big festival services = when we might have lots of visitors (and C & E Christians), everything is in = the bulletin. We also ask members and regular visitors to help new visitors = who may be having difficulty following the service. (But you have to be = careful, sometimes people show up who only want to get out of the cold/heat, and = could care less what is going on.)       Organ content: the refurbishing/rebuilding/repair of our organ is = apparently still on schedule, and the firm of Patrick Murphy should be able to = install it in late summer/early fall, after some acoustical redesign and modifications are made to the Nave. (No point in installing it, then = having to re-voice it a couple of months later). Richard Spittel Baltimore, MD        
(back) Subject: a complete service leaflet does not simplify... From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:32:44 -0700   After reviewing the pros and cons of including the entire service in the Sunday bulletin, my parish determined it was worth the extra expense.   When I first arrived, we used seasonal booklets with an insert or two for the weekly items like announcements, readings, and hymns.   In the 70's we had over 1,000 members. Today we have about 200, and = growing. Rather than attracting old-time Episcopalians, our parish is composed = almost entirely of young couples and singles - many who have little, if any, = church experience (not uncommon in large metro areas.) We have visitors each = week, and not only does our bulletin include the complete service (including service music and often the hymns, too) they will often take the booklet with them and comment favorably on it later.   We have a children's service on the first Sunday of the month which is definitely simplified, and the music is definitely child oriented - sometimes even "cute." Since the children are always in church for communion and the closing part of the liturgy, they get plenty of exposure to regular church music, and they do have musical training in Sunday = School.   The third Sunday of the month is "Prayer Book Sunday." This is a very traditional, formal service, with all music coming from the Hymnal, 1982 = (as opposed to LEVAS or WLP) and we read the service from the BCP. It was decided that the BCP was an important aspect of being Episcopalian, and we needed to expose people to it.   I am torn between the comfort I find in a basic Rite II liturgy and music from the BCP and Hymnal - as I hardly have to look at the BCP to follow. = On the other hand, I appreciate my Rector's quest to find ways of making our service attractive to the many people not familiar with liturgical = worship, and his commitment to a real "Anglican" experience.   Not only is it important to seek excellence in music, liturgy, and = worship, but it is equally important that liturgy and worship are relevant to people's daily lives. I don't think the commitment to our worship = traditions is at odds with contemporary life at all. But I do believe to remain "real," tradition must evolve a little bit.   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Welcome back Bruce... From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:38:29 -0700         -----Original Message----- From: <Bruce> hydrant@baskerbeagles.com   Since some churches seem determined to use Sunday morning worship of the Faithful for evangelizing church shoppers, why not designate members as "guides" for visitors. They can sit with the visitors and make sure that they have the right book/page and are encouraged to actively participate in the service by imitating the enthusiastic singing and responding of their guides. Then after worship they can be escorted to the coffee hour to continue getting acquainted (which likely begun during the peace chat). ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   Welcome back, Bruce! "It had to be you...It had to be you..."   Cheers,   Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: a complete service leaflet does not simplify... From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:29:30 EDT   Randy,   That is right on! Perhaps we should all share, via pdf. files, these materials with one another. Even more "on topic" would be how hymns, = canticles, the Ordinary of the Mass, etc, are handled in such ad hoc publications. Also = of interest would be the Organist's role in all of this.   Pax, BH SJE Boston  
(back) Subject: AGO Convention pics From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:52:42 -0700   I know, I know... it's almost a YEAR since this event   but I do have some nice pictures to share http://www.evensongmusic.net/images/AGO2004/   only 3 uploaded so far (and they are LARGE files 2+mb each) but the pictures are VERY nice and suitable for printing   Enjoy - more to come   -- Jonathan Orwig Evensong Music, Media and Graphics New Organ and Choral Music http://www.evensongmusic.net