PipeChat Digest #5427 - Tuesday, June 28, 2005
 
Re: PipeChat Digest #5425 - 06/27/05
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Taking life too seriously
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Taking life too seriously
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re:Audition?  What Audition??
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Selecting Service Music
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
speakers?
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: Taking life too seriously
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Taking life too seriously
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Taking life too seriously
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: speakers?
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: speakers?
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Taking life too seriously
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: speakers?
  by "Maurits Lamers" <maurits@weidestraat.nl>
back rest
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
newspaper reporting on "pipe" organs - org-chat Xpost
  by "Harry Martenas" <harry.martenas@gmail.com>
RE: newspaper reporting on "pipe" organs - org-chat Xpost
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: speakers?
  by <AGODRDANB@aol.com>
Re: ministry vs. job
  by "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5425 - 06/27/05 From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:19:35 -0400   > > Well no, but if you want we can replace that nasty old Holtkamp with a > Vox Continental ... just for you. :-)   Good Morning,   Make it a Farfisa and you have yourself a deal! (C:   - Nate    
(back) Subject: Taking life too seriously From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:49:42 -0400   >> Alas, I had forgotten that some folks on these lists are not only overly stuffy (and oh so self important), but some are also acutely deficient in the funny bone department. I should have clearly labeled my posting as "HUMOR ALERT" but failed to do so and, once again, my wit sailed right over a lot of folks' pointed heads. <<   Perhaps instead of blindly wielding this sort of drivel in the dark, you could be good enough to be more specific as to the "self-important" person(s) you are referring to; this could be accomplished publicly or in private E-mail, I'm sure.   You stated yourself that these lists are too stuffy as it is; discussing pointless, serious, and mundane topics of little or no value. Perhaps that is the filter that is used to in turn read these lists, so as any humorous content in your message was by default skipped over. You might also take into account that the conveyance of emotion over E-mail is quite limited without certain accoutrements such as smiley faces. An example of this would be how the default setting is to assume that my "Oh Please..." was made angrily, with blood boiling, red face, trembling fingers, steam coming out of ears, etc... I suppose even I should have put a smiley next to it.   This sort of statement is eerily reminiscent of an apology made by a certain Senator last week, which I will paraphase:   "Well, for you boneheads that got offended and misinterpreted my message, I'm sorry. Everyone else eat dirt!"   Since every PipeChat E-mail sent and received by me is conveniently stored on my hard drive, I'd be glad to bring out some examples of me being more humorous.   I think if you ask my co-workers and people that know me they would probably not agree with your assessment. Am I hopelessly stubborn about certain things? Sure I am. However, I do need to be confident in my abilities as an organ curator and professional, otherwise I would not be able to climb up into the chambers of priceless organs (particularly the famous ones) and do my job.     Best,   Nate (R)    
(back) Subject: Re: Taking life too seriously From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 04:02:07 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Hey! You have priceless organs in the States?   Which are they?   Tell us Nate!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Nathan Smith <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> wrote:   However, I do > need to be confident > in my abilities as an organ curator and > professional, otherwise I would > not be able to climb up into the chambers of > priceless organs > (particularly the famous ones) and do my job. >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re:Audition? What Audition?? From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:25:43 EDT   >>> Will you be willing to replace the organ with one of my design? <<   >Oh please....   > - Nate   This is more common than you think. I know of several people who have = gone into job interviews and stipulated that they would only take the job if = they got new instruments built to their specifications. I think that sort of attitude is out of place. If one doesn't like the organ at the church, = don't apply for the job. There are PLENTY of churches hiring out there--many of the = "good jobs" are through word of mouth and are not placed on the AGO or denominational websites. If a person is really as good as they think they = are, they will often have churches coming after them. Once they have been around for a = while, the church will then decide to do something about the organ if "the game" = has been played properly. You should never have to tell a church that the only =   way you'll come is if they will build you an organ to your design.   Even people like Brian Jones once played Hammonds at their churches--and = made due with it!     Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Selecting Service Music From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:17:42 -0400   From Glenda: "...there is a world of good music suitable for church out there of varying degrees of difficulty and capabilities just crying to be used."   Amen! My technical proficiency certainly limits what I'm able to work up = in a week's time, although I *am* constantly stretching what I can do and trying to use small challenges within the pieces I select as opportunities =   to work on areas where I want to improve. That said, I try to be = constantly mindful that my music needs to support the worship of a retired musicology =   professor, a long-haul truck driver and everyone in between! What I've concluded this boils down to is a lot of music based on the hymns of the day--so that it has a built-in familiarity factor. Tuneful, not terribly complex, but taste-tested according to my professional training. I also = put a lot of focus on how I can best support hymn singing and generate enthusiasm for it. I think that's the single most important thing I do within the course of a service.   I say this from the perspective of a small church and a salary to match. Obviously it would not be appropriate or sufficient in a larger church.    
(back) Subject: speakers? From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:11:04 -0500   After our congregation split last year and we lost the building, my hopes = of getting a pipe organ anytime in the near future have been dashed. We felt lucky when a church in a nearby town donated to us their old Rogers. I am not sure the model but it was made in the 70's, has a full pedal board, = and 2 manuals. The speakers are above the pedalboard facing the organist and = on the left side. The organ is in the back of the church and turned so that the organist faces the front of the church. So the organist gets blasted with sound and the organ is bearly audible above the singing at the front = of the church. It is difficult for the organist to hear the congregation at all. The previous congregation had some little dinky speakers hooked up with 2 wires coming out of the back of the organ, When we had the organ serviced by a nearby repairman, he pulled the 2 wires, saying that improperly hooked wires could damage the inside of the organ. When asked = if he could hook us up some speakers he said that we should get with a Rogers repairman for that. Well they are at least 2 to 3 hours away and we = cannot afford a huge repair bill. We could turn the organ to face the back of = the church but I don't think that would totally solve our problem of needing more balanced sound. We are in a quite small building, 75 people is crowded, but we may be here for awhile. Do any of you have ideas on what = we might do? Amy Fleming Harrison, AR (just below Branson MO if you know anyone in the area that could help)       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 6/27/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Taking life too seriously From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:36:48 EDT   Hello cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk,     In reference to your comment: Hey! You have priceless organs in the States?   Which are they?   Tell us Nate!   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Colin, I'm taking that large stick which you're using to stir SO = vigorously away from you. Now sit in the corner. I suspect that Pipechat needs a List Mom. <g> Victoria  
(back) Subject: Re: Taking life too seriously From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:46:42 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,     Humphhhhhhh......   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Myosotis51@aol.com wrote:     > Colin, I'm taking that large stick which you're > using to stir SO vigorously > away from you. Now sit in the corner. > > I suspect that Pipechat needs a List Mom.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Taking life too seriously From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:01:21 -0500   > In reference to your comment: > Hey! You have priceless organs in the States? > > Which are they? > > Tell us Nate!   I'm not Nate, but it seems pretty clear to me that unless an organ is for sale, it's priceless.   Alicia -Running off to Counterpoint      
(back) Subject: Re: speakers? From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:15:43 -0400   At 09:11 AM 2005-06-28, you wrote: >After our congregation split last year and we lost the building, my hopes = of >getting a pipe organ anytime in the near future have been dashed. We = felt >lucky when a church in a nearby town donated to us their old Rogers. I = am >not sure the model but it was made in the 70's, has a full pedal board, = and >2 manuals. The speakers are above the pedalboard facing the organist and = on >the left side. The organ is in the back of the church and turned so that >the organist faces the front of the church. So the organist gets blasted >with sound and the organ is bearly audible above the singing at the front = of >the church. It is difficult for the organist to hear the congregation at >all. The previous congregation had some little dinky speakers hooked up >with 2 wires coming out of the back of the organ, When we had the organ >serviced by a nearby repairman, he pulled the 2 wires, saying that >improperly hooked wires could damage the inside of the organ. When asked = if >he could hook us up some speakers he said that we should get with a = Rogers >repairman for that. Well they are at least 2 to 3 hours away and we = cannot >afford a huge repair bill. We could turn the organ to face the back of = the >church but I don't think that would totally solve our problem of needing >more balanced sound. We are in a quite small building, 75 people is >crowded, but we may be here for awhile. Do any of you have ideas on what = we >might do? >Amy Fleming >Harrison, AR (just below Branson MO if you know anyone in the area that >could help)   Amy,   I can almost feel your pain in this situation.   Sounds like you may have a Model 100, Columbia 75 or a Jamestown 110, all 1970s models. While they were reliable, they were not terribly musical, = as they didn't have much resources, and were highly unified.   As to speakers, it is do-able, but you will need to be careful what speakers are used. First they should be full frequency, capable of a fair =   amount of bass, should be roughly 8 ohm impedance.   What can also be done, is take the speakers out of the console, and put them in a box, that replicates roughly the size of the inside of the = console.   I have done both scenarios, so I know it can be done. In fact the second way might be better, as you say you only need to fill a small space.   Arie V.       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263      
(back) Subject: Re: speakers? From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:33:12 -0400   >After our congregation split last year and we lost the building, my hopes = of >getting a pipe organ anytime in the near future have been dashed. We = felt >lucky when a church in a nearby town donated to us their old Rogers. I = am >not sure the model but it was made in the 70's, has a full pedal board, = and >2 manuals. The speakers are above the pedalboard facing the organist and = on >the left side. The organ is in the back of the church and turned so that >the organist faces the front of the church. So the organist gets blasted >with sound and the organ is bearly audible above the singing at the front = of >the church. It is difficult for the organist to hear the congregation at >all. The previous congregation had some little dinky speakers hooked up >with 2 wires coming out of the back of the organ, When we had the organ >serviced by a nearby repairman, he pulled the 2 wires, saying that >improperly hooked wires could damage the inside of the organ. When asked = if >he could hook us up some speakers he said that we should get with a = Rogers >repairman for that. Well they are at least 2 to 3 hours away and we = cannot >afford a huge repair bill.   Anyone with a knowledge of Audio could help solve your problem. The damage alluded to is if too many speakers are connected in parallel to the same output terminal. It will fry the amplifier eventually.   We used to set up a Rodgers on stage by using a "line out" output from the organ to drive an additional 2 channel amplifier with speakers to complement the internal ones. this way you could easily add four more speakers ( at 8 ohm each). Another useful trick is to face the speakers to a wall so the sound is reflected and distributed rather than being a pin point source.   Some one savvy in Audio could make a drastic improvement with some $700 or so; especially since you said it is a small building.   John V  
(back) Subject: Re: Taking life too seriously From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:08:46 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   If something isn't for sale, it is not priceless; merely without value!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Alicia Zeilenga <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> wrote:   > > In reference to your comment: > > Hey! You have priceless organs in the States? > > > > Which are they? > > > > Tell us Nate! > > I'm not Nate, but it seems pretty clear to me that > unless an organ is > for sale, it's priceless. > > Alicia -Running off to Counterpoint > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >       ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: speakers? From: "Maurits Lamers" <maurits@weidestraat.nl> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:44:43 +0200   Hi all...   A kind of "tweaky" solution would be to turn the speaker output into a line output by soldering a 8 ohm resistor (or 4 ohm, depends on the amplifier built into the organ) and use that line input into another amplifier. For this solution to work, you really need to know what wire the ground wire is, though... :-) To be more exact, you have to solder the resistor on the other wire, otherwise you unvoluntarily turn that amplifier into a kind of barbecue (which is of course very nice for the summer :) )   greets   Maurits    
(back) Subject: back rest From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:46:15 EDT   I'm interested in a back rest for the bench on my church organ. A number of years ago, a company advertised in TAO for a retrofit kit =   for backless organ benches. I have not seen one advertised recently. Could any of you kind folks offer suggestions for suppliers of back rests and indicate if you were pleased with the work? Many thanks! Justin Hartz  
(back) Subject: newspaper reporting on "pipe" organs - org-chat Xpost From: "Harry Martenas" <harry.martenas@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:24:16 -0400   Google Alerts brought this news item about a pipe organ (being returned to the California church for which it was built) to my email box:   http://www.appeal-democrat.com/articles/2005/06/28/news/top_story/news1.txt   Lovely article, charming story - lots of feel-good factor.   "The Mount Olivet Baptist Church in Olivehurst held a viewing of a historic cathedral pipe organ now ensconced at a storage facility at Yuba and 10th streets in Marysville."   The accompanying picture looks remarkably like a reed organ...one manual, horizontal drawknobs over the keyboard...grills located under the keys...a pipe facade, some pipes with finials (IE strictly decorative)...   Historic? Cathedral? Pipe organ?   "Hand-carved from solid oak with ivory and ebony keys, the organ has never been formally appraised, but the Mary Aaron Museum estimated it is worth more than $750,000."   Understandable that the museum has closed - they seem to have an unusual grasp of finance.   I suppose writing to the newspaper isn't really a good idea. No one likes to be corrected, and the church membership might not want to hear that what they have is not that rare.   But - are stories like this helping our favorite instrument? Inflated values, over-estimates of historic importance, poorly-researched news?   Just wondering.   Harry Martenas  
(back) Subject: RE: newspaper reporting on "pipe" organs - org-chat Xpost From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:43:22 +1200   >Google Alerts brought this news item about a pipe organ (being returned to the California church for which it was built) to my email box: http://www.appeal-democrat.com/articles/2005/06/28/news/top_story/news1.txt=     Well, yes, that looks to me exactly like a reed organ worth, at the most, about $250.   Heavens, $750,000!!!!!!!!!! Think what we could get for that. Churn, = churn, green, green, gnash, gnash, etc.   Ross        
(back) Subject: Re: speakers? From: <AGODRDANB@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:08:47 EDT   Hello, I have seen several workable solutions offered. If you are attempting to create a "line level" out put from the speaker terminals (not a good idea = ) you need to terminate the speaker out put into a nominal load, = 8 ohms is good (8Ohm resistor) however only do this if you choose = not to use the speakers in the consol, however if you deceide to do this also add a resistor in series with the = signal ( Not the ground) of at least 10K ohms, if you do not you are loading the input = of what ever amplifier you use with 8 ohms which will cause a lot of distortion and = a great deal of loss of the higher frequencies. OR if your console is using a standard Rodgers A-100 amplifier, = you can use the input to the amplifier, and just branch off. The = output from the organ pre-amp is 10K ohms. If memory serves there is = already an audio output connector on the back of this = instrument. there will be 4 wires going to it. An unshielded pair, which is the 24vDc to turn on the power relay of a remotely located amplifier, and a sheilded audio, which provides a 10k Ohm line level out put. You could then install a remote speaker system and use just = about any good amplifier. If you could get a Rodgers A-100 (Often offered on E-bay) or even a Schober TA-1 (also often on ebay) . You could also then adjust =   the out put to the internal amplifier to balance the sound best of luck! Dr. Dan.  
(back) Subject: Re: ministry vs. job From: "Mark" <mark_52@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:03:28 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)   AMEN and AMEN!!, Randy.=0D =0D And the one thing that we, as Ministering Organist/Musicians must guard against is allowing the People of God to fall into a trap of worshipping = the 350K to 1.02 Million dollar organs we play instead of Him, Who entrusts u= s as guardians of such instruments.=0D =0D Mark Gilbert=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Randy Terry=0D Date: 06/28/05 01:21:36=0D To: 'PipeChat'=0D Subject: ministry vs. job=0D =0D Just remember that taking on a ministry is *personal* and one must do the= =0D *job* as expected of him or her by the church or institution.=0D =0D I speak from experience where I let a perceived ministry interfere with h= ow=0D I carried out my duties as music director and getting out of the mess I=0D created for myself was a lesson hard learned.=0D =0D Basically, I created the organ project of my dreams, and when my pursuit = of=0D that made me less effective in my position as choir director, I expected = the=0D church to overlook it - all in the name of ministry - since I raised the = 50=0D grand to complete the work and they have a 350K organ instead of a piece = of=0D junk.=0D =0D It all worked out OK, but I will never again put myself in that position.= =0D The organ after all is only a thing - the people are what is important!=0D =0D +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=0D Randy Terry=0D Music Minister=0D The Episcopal Church of St. Peter=0D Redwood City, California=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D ******************************************************************=0D "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"=0D PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics=0D HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org=0D List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org=0D Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org=0D List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org>=0D List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org>=0D List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>=0D =0D =2E