PipeChat Digest #5192 - Thursday, March 3, 2005
 
Re: Benoit "Ubi Caritas" vs. Benoit "Where Charity and Love"
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Benoit "Ubi Caritas" vs. Benoit "Where Charity and Love"
  by "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: WWBD
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: What would Bach do (or have done)?
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Organ wedding music
  by <regina.nally@gsa.gov>
Re: Fisk dedication in Chicago - longer than it should be
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Organ wedding music
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Organ wedding music
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: WWBD
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Organ wedding music
  by <regina.nally@gsa.gov>
Re: Organ wedding music
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Philly Organ gone
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: WWBD
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
A Wicks in Columbus (Ohio)
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: WWBD
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
AGO Region II &  III Convention - anyone going?
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Benoit "Ubi Caritas" vs. Benoit "Where Charity and Love" From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 06:59:50 EST   >For sake of clarification, and perhaps restating the obvious, these two >tunes are separate compositions. >Benoit based his organ composition (contained in his Pieces D'Orgue) upon = the "Ubi >Caritas" gregorian chant.   To back up Jon's original posting, the Benoit composition found on pg. 29 = of the Pieces d'Orgue book is based on the the chant that is commonly = translated in English as "Where Charity and Love Prevail." The words caritas = (charity) and amor (love) would seem to indicate that this is probably a truer translation than the rather cheesy title of "In the Love of Jesus Christ", = as the composition is called. Anyway, Jon's post was referring to the Gregorian = chant, not a congregational hymn, and it was the Benoit's arrangement of CHANT upon which that Desire'e said that she had based her improvistion. What I am = trying to figure out is why one would improvise on an arrangement, rather than = playing the arrangement as written OR just improvising one's own arrangement. It seems either would be easier than taking a pre-printed composition and = improvising on it.   Benoit's HYMN "Where Charity and Love Prevail" is/was based on the chant = Veni redemptor genitum, which Martin Luther translated into German and became = what we now know as Nun Komm der Heiden Heiland. I find little factoids like = that to be very interesting bits of trivia.   Also, regarding Benoit, he wrote his compositions on a 3 manual 23 rank Cavaille'-Coll organ, which was originally built for the Paris Exposition = in 1907 and dedicated by Guilmant. In 1910, it was moved to the Abbey (Abbaye) at Clervaux. There are several recordings that have been made upon this = instrument in the Abbey by organist Carlo Hommel, and one of the CDs includeds chant by = the Abbey monks.   Do many of you play the Benoit works? Being in a Baptist church, no one = in my congregation knows the "Catholic" themes that they are based on, but = they make good short preludes and postludes, and they're something different.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Benoit "Ubi Caritas" vs. Benoit "Where Charity and Love" From: "Desiree'" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 04:13:54 -0800 (PST)   I Improvised upon the hymn tune "Christian Love" for Where Charity and Love Prevail       __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/  
(back) Subject: Re: WWBD From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:35:30 +0800   Probably the best way of answering that is to ask, "What are today's composers doing when they write music?" I would think the answer would be applicable to Bach as a modern composer. We don't know yet whether any of today's composers will ever be as great as Bach, but we cannot say for certain that they will not. Remember that Bach was not "discovered" until some generations after his death.That is for a generation in 200 years = time if there is any of the earth left by then. Whatever the answer you and I will never know!   Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:09 AM Subject: Re: WWBD     > ScottFop@aol.com wrote: > >> What would Bach do? > > And I might note that the question cannot be answered in the form posed, =   > because it needs more background information. Do you mean, "What would > Bach do if he came back knowing now exactly what he did in the early = 18th > century?", or "What would Bach do if he came back today, and had all of > the benefits of the knowledge gained in the intervening two and > three-quarter hundred years?" The answers to the questions are not > necessarily the same. > To me, the more interesting points to ponder, are "If Bach came back > today, would he use persist in using pen and paper, use 'Finale (R)', or =   > use 'Sibelius (R)'?"       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 1/03/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: What would Bach do (or have done)? From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:51:09 +0800   Maybe, JUST maybe. We will never know will we? Why would he have at his disposal an American symphonic instrument if he was born and bred in Germany? Just a question, just curious. In any case the music he wrote was =   the music of the 17th Century and written FOR those times. Maybe he would have preferred the organs of Silberman and Schnitger as do many modern organists. BE   ----- Original Message ----- From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:39 AM Subject: What would Bach do (or have done)?     > The problem with asking such a question is that it is not asked in = the > spirit of seeking a thoughtfully considered answer, but rather for the > purpose > of confirming a deeply personal and admittedly resentful opinion. > The REAL fly in the ointment here is that if Bach DID have at his > disposal a well-disposed symphonic instrument in the manner of the best = of > the > second-quarter twentieth-century American organbuilders, he most likely > would have > written notably different music. This illuminates the question in = dubious, > even > silly, light. > Therefore, the interpretability of Bach's music, by Bach, as he had > written it, is contingent upon an understanding of the instruments he > played and > helped design. They were conceived within that context. Had the = contextual > circumstances been different, Bach certainly would have taken advantage = of > those > differences, and we must acknowledge that somebody of his genius would > have > written music APPROPRIATE to the instruments of the time. > I contend that if Bach had played a Kimball, Welte, or Skinner on a > daily > basis, some very different compositions would have issued from his pen = -- > which would therefore cry out to be authentically played on THOSE > instruments. > > Sebastian M. Gluck       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 1/03/2005    
(back) Subject: Organ wedding music From: <regina.nally@gsa.gov> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:13:07 -0500   I'm looking to this group of organ officianatos for some guidance on soulful music for my wedding on an amazing baroque organ in the chapel of = a 1930s stone gothic chapel. I'm not looking for grandiose but more for something appropriate for an intimate candle light ceremony in a chapel that only seats 100 people. I confess that I know next to nothing about organ music but am open to your informed suggestions. Additionally, I am wondering if anyone is familiar with Ennio Morricone's Gabriel's Oboe and have thoughts as to whether or not it could be played on an organ maybe with some other accompaniment? -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld        
(back) Subject: Re: Fisk dedication in Chicago - longer than it should be From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:36:13 -0600   Hi! Well, you know what they say, it takes a village to raise a child :) I'll ammend Mr. David's posting which was, by the way, most thorough. I too was at the concert on Sunday evening and I, like Greg Ceurvorst, studied some with Richard Hoskins, taking most of my lessons on the Moeller/Casavant which Mr. David mentioned.   The organ as it was when it was removed was a combination of The Casavant and Moeller pipework. There was a four manual console with what was definitely a rigged SSL system that was attatched to the wall next to the console. The organ was right around 100 ranks, maybe half of which actually worked. The entirety of the instrument, save a small antiphonal division which occupied the back wall of the church, was STUFFED into a a SINGLE chamber to the right side of the chancel area. The chamber was suitable for maybe about 50 ranks of pipes comfortably. Towards the end, Mr. Hoskins had red stickers on the stops which didn't work so that the committe could see the reality of what was going with the organ.     As far as the program goes, the Mendelssohn/Best transcription was indeed in e minor, from a work originally written for piano.   The partita was "Sei (something) Jesus Gutig" (can never remember that title) rather than "O Gott, du Frommer"   The Guilmant, I do remember, was a scherzo movement.   I second everything that Mr. David and Greg said regarding the rest of the recital.   One thing that struck me about the Fisk was the great trumpet. It seems to me to be one of the most versatile great reeds I've heard in a while. It was perfect in the big French pieces such as the Widor 6th and functioned perfectly as a solo trumpet accompanied by the full swell to mixture in one of the movements from the Bach partita. In my experience, great trumpets have always been either too overpowering for much chorus use or too weak for solo use. This one was just right.   The new Fisk at St. Chrysostom's is certainly a glorious edition to the Chicago area. I'm sure we'll all enjoy it for years to come.   If you have a chance, take a look at St. Chrysostom's website, http://www.saintc.org. There you can find a spec of the Fisk, along with info about St. Chrysostom's musicians and other instruments (they have a carillon as well.) You can also find some past music lists. Their primary Sunday service is Sung Eucharist some Sunday's and sung Morning Prayer some Sunday's. For the dedication service for the organ, the choir sang Howells' 'Collegium Regale' canticles as well as several other pieces.   Blessings, Beau Surratt      
(back) Subject: Re: Organ wedding music From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:42:41 -0600   Hi!   There is, in fact, and edition of Morricone's "Gabriel's Oboe" for organ and oboe. It works wonderfully and makes a great piece for a wedding. I've used it for that very purpose before. Take a look at this website to find it.   http://www.aardworks.com/mission.htm   Blessings, Beau Surratt      
(back) Subject: Re: Organ wedding music From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:15:17 -0000   Bo=EBllmann, L=E9on (1862 - 1897)     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----   The name of L=E9on Bo=EBllmann is known to all organists above all because = of his brilliant Toccata for the instrument, the final movement of a Suite gothique. Born in Alsace in 1862, he served as organist at the church of = St. Vincent-de-Paul in Paris from 1881 until his early death in 1897.     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----   Organ Music In addition to the Toccata from the Suite gothique, Op. 25, the = Douze Pi=E8ces (Twelve Pieces), Op. 16, and Heures mystiques, Opp. 29 & 30, are = well enough known.     ----- Original Message ----- From: <regina.nally@gsa.gov> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:13 PM Subject: Organ wedding music     > I'm looking to this group of organ officianatos for some guidance on > soulful music for my wedding on an amazing baroque organ in the chapel = of > a > 1930s stone gothic chapel. I'm not looking for grandiose but more for > something appropriate for an intimate candle light ceremony in a chapel > that only seats 100 people. I confess that I know next to nothing about > organ music but am open to your informed suggestions. Additionally, I = am > wondering if anyone is familiar with Ennio Morricone's Gabriel's Oboe = and > have thoughts as to whether or not it could be played on an organ maybe > with some other accompaniment? > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld   This is my suggestion, and anyone competent enough to play it will be able =   to adopt to the stops which are on the organ.   Sent from the PC in my study, sitting down, comfortably, glass of whiskey = in one hand (Note well the spelling), with a snow-squall raging outside, and = a new log on the fire. Ahhh, the discomfort of walking around carrying your handheld ....   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a somewhat smug and comforatable old-musicman]    
(back) Subject: Re: WWBD From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:28:33 -0600   I don't really know what Bach would do, but I don't think we should compare him to the modern composer who, generally, is doing something that is new just because it is new. Bach was considered "old-fashioned" in his day. I'm guessing that Bach would use a notation program and write by electric light. He'd probably be like most organists and complain about the organ he had at his disposal. He'd probably write a lot less music too, because he would not be required to write a cantata every week and his position would allow him to have more access to music written by others.   Alicia Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:35:30 +0800 Subject: Re: WWBD   > Probably the best way of answering that is to ask, "What are today's > composers doing when they write music?" I would think the answer would > be > applicable to Bach as a modern composer. We don't know yet whether any > of > today's composers will ever be as great as Bach, but we cannot say for > certain that they will not. Remember that Bach was not "discovered" > until > some generations after his death.That is for a generation in 200 years > time > if there is any of the earth left by then. Whatever the answer you and > I > will never know! > > Bob Elms.      
(back) Subject: Re: Organ wedding music From: <regina.nally@gsa.gov> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:51:54 -0600   How exciting Beau! Thank you so much. I think you just made my day!!!   -Regina.         "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Sent by: pipechat@pipechat.org 03/02/2005 09:42 AM Please respond to "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>     To "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> cc   Subject Re: Organ wedding music             Hi!   There is, in fact, and edition of Morricone's "Gabriel's Oboe" for organ and oboe. It works wonderfully and makes a great piece for a wedding. I've used it for that very purpose before. Take a look at this website to find it.   http://www.aardworks.com/mission.htm   Blessings, Beau Surratt       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Re: Organ wedding music From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 12:06:13 EST   Dear Wireless, Known facts - amazing Baroque organ 1930's stone gothic chapel (live acoustics, implied, me hopes!) intimate, candlelight ceremony A few suggestions - Aria - Flor Peeters (up to tempo so as not to sound more appropriate = for the funeral following a tragic, accidental death) Hymne - Vangelis - Hal Leonard Corp. HL00292073 Vesper Voluntaries Op. 14 - Edward Elgar, ed. Peter Horton, Faber = Music Ltd. Mozart, Eine Kleine Nachtmuzik (selected, transcribed movement(s) ) Paul Manz - Seelebrautigam (spelling?) from Concordia's Parish = Organist series, the Wedding Music volume, might also (now) be published, = instead, by MorningStar Music ("Jesus, Lead Thou On") Our air-raid sirens are sounding, must take cover. Either it's tornado practice or a terrorist attack. One can never be certain. Throwing = caution to the "wind" is not healthy!! I know others on the list will chime in with additional suggestions. Dale G. Rider Organist, Composer, Engraver  
(back) Subject: Philly Organ gone From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:35:19 -0800   I just saw a blurb on PIPRORG-L That the Philadelphia Convention Center organ has been removed and the building to be razed, after all. What a shame. No plans for the organ.   Pray that it (like Memphis) doesn't rot to death.   If any of you are interested, there is a link via the Chattanooga AGO website regarding the large 1920's Austin in the Civic Auditorium there. = It was designed by Edwin Lemare, and that was his last job.   The organ has escaped tinkering (like the Cleveland Skinner at Symphony Hall) and is in the process of a slow, phased restoration by members of = the community and Dennis Milnar.   The bad thing is these organs are so big they just don't fit anywhere = else. Hopefully there is a new symphony hall in the works that can draw in a = space for the Philly organ.   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: WWBD From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:28:30 -0600   Alicia Zeilenga wrote:   >He'd probably write a >lot less music too, because he would not be required to write a cantata >every week and his position would allow him to have more access to music >written by others. > > Not to mention which, he would have distractions like motion pictures, video games, and reality TV, that he didn't have in 1725, and he would probably have felt obliged, as well, to make international recital trips.   ns  
(back) Subject: A Wicks in Columbus (Ohio) From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:42:08 EST   I hope to have a response back from the organ company that has serviced = this Wicks for the past many years. I relayed your comments to the owner, and = he has asked to present some pertinent information. Due to a family = emergency, he is not able to respond quickly. I am awaiting with the rest of you for his response, Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: WWBD From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:27:49 EST   In response to Bob's assertion that "Bach was not 'discovered' until some generations after his death", I would offer the following:   According to Malcolm Boyd's book (which just happens to be the Bach = resource closest to my computer at the moment!), by the time of the publication of = the "Clavier-Uebung" (1741),   "Bach was widely recognized as one of the finest composers of his time. Writing from Bologna...only three months before Bach's death, the great = Italian musician Padre Martini, who had certainly never heard [Bach] play, could = say: "...I will say only that I hold it difficult to find a better Professore since every day he can claim to be among the finest in Europe" (Boyd, pg. 218)   Boyd goes on to illustrate the popularity of Bach's keyboard works among musicians in the 1780's in Vienna and in England, where he was championed = by Samuel Wesley, among others.   Further, Boyd points out that it was the VOCAL works, not the keyboard = works, which took several generations to regain popularity. He gives two good reasons for this, and all in one sentence: "There was no particular reason = why a Kantor in Germany should perform the cantatas and Passions of his = predecessor especially those as difficult as Bach's and at a time when the cantata and = the oratorio Passion were, in any case, in decline as part of the Lutheran = liturgy". (pg.218)   So, it would appear that at least according to Boyd, the legend of Bach's music being "old fashioned" and therefore out of fashion is only a = half-truth (the vocal works were clearly out of fashion, in part becuase of = liturgical trends and tastes), as is the idea that Bach was "rediscovered" only after = the formation of the Bach-Gesellschaft in the 19th Century.   And after all that, I STILL can't get anywhere tracking down information = on BWV 577!   Pax, Bill H. Boston  
(back) Subject: AGO Region II & III Convention - anyone going? From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 22:37:31 EST   I didn't get any reaction last time I posted this so...... here goes = again. I just got the AGO Region II & III convention flier in the mail - WOW!   Is anyone else going? It's in Poughkeepsie, upstate New York.   And....... the hotel rooms are $119 for single or double occupancy. Does =   anyone (female) want to share a room?   Victoria