PipeChat Digest #5200 - Monday, March 7, 2005
 
Re: Eclectic Programming
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: eclectic
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Re: eclectic
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Tryggare kan
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Eclectic Programming and unknown god
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: eclectic
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
RE: Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net>
Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
Felix Hell. Concert announcement
  by "Hell-Concerts@t-online.de" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de>
Roland Frase (RIP)
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: eclectic
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...]
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...]
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Eclectic Programming From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 12:02:34 +0200   Diogene Laertius, writing in the 3rd cntury AD defined Eclectic by saying "One more school of philosophy was introduced not long ago by Potamon of Alexandria, who chose from each of the others what pleased him: this is = the Eclectic sect."   One vague modern use of the word is borrowing opinions, ideas or styles = from a variety of sources. Alan is right in attributing "ek" to "out of" and "klesis" to "a calling" - which suggests vocation, and thus links to the Church and Priesthood. It seems the word eclectic was coined later - and related to a philosophy, but not necessarily a church! John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/   Alan Freed wrote "I THINK that "eclectic" comes from the same Greek roots as "ecclesiastical," meaning, "out-called." So I think they were using the wrong word altogether. It does NOT mean =B3don=B9t know how to = classify.=B2"      
(back) Subject: Re: eclectic From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:36:30 +0200   Subsequent to my first post in answer to Alan Freed's response on = "eclectic" I did a little more homework and had a word with the Gods on Olympus just = up the road. They pointed out that other than the "ek" there is no = relationship between the two words. Since Norwegian seems to come through ok on the = list I'll try Greek! ?????????? (eklektikos) - eclectic, the accent on the = second syllable: selective, discriminating, particular, dainty, exclusive, particular, choosy. (Oxford Dictionary - as used by the greek Gods) ???????? (ekklisia) pronounced eck lee see er : church. The accent is on =   the final syllable, the ee in the second syllable being the greek ita as opposed to epsilon in the 2nd syllable of eclectic. So "eclectic" seems to be far removed from rubbish!   John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/      
(back) Subject: Re: eclectic From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:08:39 -0500     > >So "eclectic" seems to be far removed from rubbish! >John Foss   John,   I understand that, you understand that, - but Radio Station Management doesn't understand that! Or maybe it is the Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Council that doesn't see that. As far as our Radio Station was concerned, eclectic was for all the stuff that they couldn't categorise, which was mostly "rubbish". But then, Radio Station Managers are a law unto themselves! I am not suggesting that Alan's church music people offer "rubbish"!   Bob Conway      
(back) Subject: Tryggare kan From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:54:20 -0500   On 3/6/05 8:45 PM, "BlueeyedBear@aol.com" <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> wrote:   > the hymnal calls it a Swedish folk melody, and the harmony is from Song B= ook > for Sunday School, 1871. Linda Sandell (b. 1832-1903) write the text, wh= ich > was translated in 1994:   Oh, for the love of Pete! What have I DONE!   Of COURSE it=B9s Swedish. I=B9m half Swede, half Norsk, and I mixed up two hymns. I read what you posted, but my alleged gray matter received it as Den store hvide flok=8Ban enTIREly different sort of hymn altogether. I like =8Cem both, but in utterly different ways.   Regrets!   Alan, in the cool light of morning  
(back) Subject: Eclectic Programming and unknown god From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:01:59 -0500   I once heard a marvelous sermon preached on the "unknown god" episode in Acts 17, where Paul addresses the Athenian philosophers. The sermon's argument was that the Athenians had set aside a monument to an unknown god in the sense that all the other gods were named and known but they didn't want to leave anyone out, so just to be sure they included the category of the unknown god in their monument collection. This seems to correspond to some radio programmers' notion of "eclectic"--that which is left over when everything else is accounted for. The beauty of the sermon was that Paul argues that this "unknown," "eclectic" (in that special sense) god was in fact the only true God, who created heaven and earth. Rather like "the stone the builders rejected" theme in Psalm 118: 22.   Randy Runyon    
(back) Subject: Re: eclectic From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 09:06:45 -0500   On 3/7/05 8:08 AM, "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> wrote:   > But then, Radio Station Managers are a law unto themselves! > I am not suggesting that Alan's church music people offer "rubbish"!   Oh, I think we all understood that, Bob. Even if you'd THOUGHT so, you wouldn't have SAID such a thing!   Alan      
(back) Subject: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:33:31 -0500   Hi, listers.   This morning I played a funeral at church (I've been organist there since July 1). An amateur trumpet player (I'll leave it to you to discern why I put it that way) came up to me after the service and said "Now, they told you what I do every year this week, right?" I said, "No, what?" He said "For the prelude before worship this Sunday, I play 'Danny Boy' on the trumpet, we put the words in the bulletin." Sure enough, I looked back at previous years and there it was. "The congregation is invited to read the words as the melody is played... 'Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes..' " What the...???? Not even trumpet with organ, just solo trumpet. It's Lent, we haven't been having a prelude. I'm not sure the instrument suits the melody. I'm not sure the player suits the melody. I'm not sure what "Danny Boy" has to do with a Protestant worship service. So, I have my musical/theological reservations.   But, somewhere in the back of my head, I have cultural reservations as well. As in: doing "Danny Boy" to celebrate the Irish heritage is about like doing "The King and I" to honor the people of Thailand. Am I wrong in this? Why or why not? I think it's got something to do with an American sentimental whitewash of the culture, almost to the point of caricature, as in a Minstrel Show claiming to represent African American culture. I need to make a decision and try to explain this to the man, to the clergy when the man complains about me, to the congregation members who say "Why are we doing/not doing this?"   And yes, I am relatively uptight about stuff like this, so I appreciate all the people who will tell me "Who cares? Who will know? Go with the flow." I might decide to do just that, I just need perspectives.   Thanks, Chuck Peery St. Louis    
(back) Subject: RE: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: "Randy Terry" <randy@peacham.homeip.net> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:34:26 -0800   Chuck,   First, I understand completely some of the feelings you are dealing with. For me, surprises like this are especially bothersome, mostly because I don't like surprises. As I have grown more experienced, I would not have = a problem letting this guy play "Danny Boy."   I've been doing this for 20+ years, and the one thing that I don't think I will ever be able to tuck neatly away is my pride. If this guy came to me and said, "Oh, I have always played DANNY BOY. Is that okay with you?" My "pastoral" side (assuming the church membership and clergy approved) would immediately defer and happily let the guy have his five minutes of glory.   However, when church members understand the politics and the (helpless) position the staff is in (and let you *know* they understand the position you are in - damned either way) I get very defensive and upset, generally getting myself all worked up. And it is in this state I tend to say and do things I know are not in my best interest, and I become my own worst = enemy.   My advice is to casually mention it to your minister in charge or = supervisor and if they say, "Oh, yes, he always plays." Then paste on that smile and let him do it with every ounce of graciousness you can muster. If they = say otherwise, seek and follow their counsel.   Whatever you do, you must decide how important the job is and how you want to be perceived by the membership. As a young organist at my first job, I spent several years' worth of damage control over something totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I threw out a tacky = Christmas Cantata when I moved in during the summer, and when the choir members who paid for the music asked about it at Christmas, I did not think and said "Oh, that tacky thing, we will not be doing that here." Eight years later that couple had become my advocates, but only after I went through the appropriate growing pains.   Unfortunately in most cases, our musicianship is secondary to how people perceive our people skills. Once you've established those, then you can assert your real role with more confidence.   At my age, if presented with the incident you described just now, I would smile and say: "Oh, I'm so glad, let's get together and see what else you can play on." You don't know anything about the guy, but you may have an important and useful contact you need to groom. Best to assume the BEST, first!   Cheers, Randy   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Randy Terry Music Minister The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California        
(back) Subject: Re: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 16:39:11 -0500   Hello Chuck,   Many of your points are well taken. Everybody on this list can likely = recall dozens of similar "positions" they've been (unthinkingly) put in as = they accustom themselves to the "mysteries" of being in a new job for a = full year. When I taught high school choral music, I was told (by the = students - NOT during the interview process!!!) that Handel's "Hallelujah = Chorus" always closes the school's Christmas Choral Concert. (misgiving . = . . . !)   OPINION ONLY: The other side of the coin is this: unless our employment = interview / committee agreement and written "contract" gives any of us = complete and sole leadership of "all things musical," we REALLY are = (perhaps) 'thinking of ourselves a little more highly than we ought' to = imagine that our opinion is a "decree" - something to be set in stone as = "policy" to be abided by those who make available our paychecks. = Traditions (both appropriate ones and others which are not at all = appropriate in places of worship) ABOUND! We must tread lightly and treat = those who we are called to "lead in/to worship" with humility, respect and = human dignity.   D. G. Rider Mighty Missouri  
(back) Subject: Re: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:58:56 -0500   Thanks for your thoughtful response! This is my 35th year as a church organist or choir director. I totally agree that certain things are less of a struggle at this point! So I controlled my reaction to the trumpet player quite well, I think! I was nice to him, I told him it was Lent, the music was planned and we hadn't been doing preludes. I would consult with the pastors and get back to him. I thanked him for offering to do it. I ran it by the clergy. They claimed he had never done this before. It was the faithful church secretary who said "Oh, yes he has!" and looked up the bulletins. The clergy looked fairly horrified and said "But.. it's Lent...we haven't been doing prelude music, and we have a Lenten theme, and the music is all planned...." Which is all true. We've worked hard on how the service should start during Lent. I said my piece about "Danny Boy" not being very culturally P.C. I said "How about Slane or St. Columba?" They said "He learned trumpet in a polka band, it doesn't matter what tune you give him, it's going to sound brash and brassy, that shouldn't happen to any of those tunes." They suggested that a summer Sunday was the proper time for the man to play the trumpet. I think they were still recalling that this was the same man who got up to the lectern and announced that, if the congregation surpassed last year's shrimp sale total, he would sing the Louis Armstrong version (presumably a stylistic impression) of "It's a Wonderful World" in worship. We had no warning of this, nor had he asked the clergy. The shrimp sale was a success, but we have yet to hear Louis sing. So, you're right, it is a sort of complex assessment. Church is fun, isn't it? Chuck   On Mar 7, 2005, at 4:34 PM, Randy Terry wrote:   > Chuck, > > First, I understand completely some of the feelings you are dealing > with. > For me, surprises like this are especially bothersome, mostly because I > don't like surprises. As I have grown more experienced, I would not > have a > problem letting this guy play "Danny Boy." > > I've been doing this for 20+ years, and the one thing that I don't > think I > will ever be able to tuck neatly away is my pride. If this guy came > to me > and said, "Oh, I have always played DANNY BOY. Is that okay with you?" > My > "pastoral" side (assuming the church membership and clergy approved) > would > immediately defer and happily let the guy have his five minutes of > glory. > > However, when church members understand the politics and the (helpless) > position the staff is in (and let you *know* they understand the > position > you are in - damned either way) I get very defensive and upset, > generally > getting myself all worked up. And it is in this state I tend to say > and do > things I know are not in my best interest, and I become my own worst > enemy. > > My advice is to casually mention it to your minister in charge or > supervisor > and if they say, "Oh, yes, he always plays." Then paste on that smile > and > let him do it with every ounce of graciousness you can muster. If > they say > otherwise, seek and follow their counsel. > > Whatever you do, you must decide how important the job is and how you > want > to be perceived by the membership. As a young organist at my first > job, I > spent several years' worth of damage control over something totally > insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I threw out a tacky > Christmas > Cantata when I moved in during the summer, and when the choir members > who > paid for the music asked about it at Christmas, I did not think and > said > "Oh, that tacky thing, we will not be doing that here." Eight years > later > that couple had become my advocates, but only after I went through the > appropriate growing pains. > > Unfortunately in most cases, our musicianship is secondary to how > people > perceive our people skills. Once you've established those, then you > can > assert your real role with more confidence. > > At my age, if presented with the incident you described just now, I > would > smile and say: "Oh, I'm so glad, let's get together and see what else > you > can play on." You don't know anything about the guy, but you may have > an > important and useful contact you need to groom. Best to assume the > BEST, > first! > > Cheers, > Randy > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Randy Terry > Music Minister > The Episcopal Church of St. Peter > Redwood City, California > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: Felix Hell. Concert announcement From: "Hell-Concerts@t-online.de" <Hell-Concerts@t-online.de> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 00:51:13 +0100   Dear listmembers and friends,   after a wonderful experience in Marmoutier/Alsace, France, (Silbermann organ) last Sunday, we are glad to announce Felix Hell's upcoming recitals in Eppingen/Germany and Schifferstadt/Germany, performing on a 1975-Klais-tracker respectively a 1999-Vleugels-tracker.   Date/time: March 12, 2005, 8 pm Location: Pfarrkirche "Unsere Liebe Frau", Eppingen/Kraichgau, Germany Organ: Klais, tracker, 30 stops, 42 ranks, 2 manuals, built 1975   PROGRAM   Fantasy and Fugue g minor, BWV 542 =84O Mensch bewein dein S=FCnde gro=DF=93, BWV 622   Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-1791) Fantasy f minor, KV 608   C=E9sar Franck (1822 - 1890) Prelude, Fugue and Variation, op. 18   Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy (1809-1847) Sonata No. 4, B Major, op 65 Allegro con brio Andante religioso Allegretto Allegro maestoso e vivace   Franz Liszt (1839-1901) - Consolation Db Major - Prelude und Fugue on B-A-C-H     Date/time: March 13, 2005, 5 pm Location: Kath. Kirche St. Jakobus, Schifferstadt/Pfalz, Germany Organ: Vleugels, tracker, 44 stops, 3 manuals, built 1999   PROGRAM   Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) - Fantasy und Fugue g minor, BWV 542 - =84O Mensch bewein dein S=FCnde gross=93, BWV 532 - Prelude and Fugue D Major, BWV 532   Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy (1809-1847) Sonata No. 1, f minor, op 65 Allegro moderato e serioso Adagio Andante Recit Allegro assai vivace   Josef Gabriel Rheinberger (1839-1901) =84Abendfriede=93 from op. 156   Cesar Franck (1822-1890) Chorale No. 3, a minor   Franz Liszt (1811-1886) - Adagio (Consolation) Db Major - Prelude and Fugue on B-A-C-H   If you are in Germany by chance, or are located close by in the SW of Germany, Felix would feel honored if you could attend.   For those who are interested in unusual organ fassade art work, just go on:   http://www.ogrody.org/de/gesamtwerk/schiffer.cfm   Hans-Friedrich Hell          
(back) Subject: Roland Frase (RIP) From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 19:17:37 -0600   It is always sad to report the loss of a friend. Roland Frase of the Chicago area lost his battle with cancer this week. Roland has been a long term supporter of theatre organ = in the Chicago area and was a member of the CATOE board of directors until his death. He was = an outstanding amateur organist and always provided us with good theatre organ sounds = when he regularly played for open console at socials. Roland had a 3M Kimball theatre pipe organ in his home which originally came from the Hoosier Theatre in Whiting, Indiana (the original =   Hoosier organ before the later Wurlitzer incarnations) Roland was also an member of the Joliet =   Chapter, serving on their board for a time, and continued to actively support their on going restoration and improvements to the Rialto Barton. He was a good friend and enthusiastically shared his love of theatre = organs with us. He will be missed.    
(back) Subject: Re: eclectic From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:40:04 -0500   On 3/7/05 7:36 AM, "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> wrote:   > Subsequent to my first post in answer to Alan Freed's response on "eclect= ic" > I did a little more homework and had a word with the Gods on Olympus just= up > the road. They pointed out that other than the "ek" there is no relations= hip > between the two words.   Ah, such are THOSE gods!   Well, my dear and most highly regarded Sir (and you know I=B9m quite serious about THAT): I have just sent you (off list; no need to repeat it here) some MORE =B3more homework=B2 for your ekstatikos pleasure (I made up that adjective). If you accept the *&^%$* I offer, I=B9ll expect a withdrawal of your =B3there is no relationship.=B2   (Or am I STILL missing something?=8Bwhich is entirely possible!=8Bmy brain bein= g very soffftf.)   Alan (chuckling raucously, and hoping UR2)   (Very warmest fraternal regards)  
(back) Subject: Re: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:11:15 EST   it is this type of situation that would cause me to run, not walk, = screaming from the room and the job. especially if the clergy said danny boy is ok = in worship. since they didn't, i might stick around to see what other = hijinks this guy could come up with (the shrimp story would lead me to anonymously =   suggest that he not be allowed near a microphone during the worship hour).   but that's just me.   scot  
(back) Subject: Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...] From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:30:56 +0800   There's something missing here ... why?   Does he have an explaination for why he "does this every year at this time?= " And if it's going to be done at all, is there an expalaination of why? (T= radition or it's the only song he knows are note valid reasons.) Why can it= not be played on some other week? (Summer, when everyone is on vacation?) = Then, when it is played, include the REASON in the bulletin.   I agree that the melody isn't well suited for the trumpet, unless perhaps, = Winton Marsailis was going to play it. I see no reason at all to print the = words in the bulletin and have a congregational sing-along. Without the lyr= ics it could be introduced as "Londonderry air" -- I'd have less heartburn = over that.   I did Google these religious lyrics that work with the tune ... perhaps the= y could be used? The second stanza being suited for the season of Lent.   I Cannot Tell Why He, Whom Angels Worship   I cannot tell how he whom angels worship should stoop to love the peoples of the earth, or why as shepherd he should seek the wanderer with his mysterious promise of new birth. But this I know, that he was born of Mary, when Bethlehem's manger was his only home, and that he lived at Nazareth and labored, and so the Savior, Savior of the world, is come.   I cannot tell how silently he suffered, as with his peace he graced this place of tears, or how his heart upon the cross was broken, the crown of pain to three and thirty years. But this I know, he heals the broken-hearted, and stays our sin, and calms our lurking fear, and lifts the burden from the heavy laden, for yet the Savior, Savior of the world, is here.   I cannot tell how he will win the nations, how he will claim his earthly heritage, how satisfy the needs and aspirations of east and west, of sinner and of sage. But this I know, all flesh shall see his glory, and he shall reap the harvest he has sown, and some glad day his sun shall shine in splendor when he the Savior, Savior of the world, is known.   I cannot tell how all the lands shall worship, when, at his bidding, every storm is stilled, or who can say how great the jubilation when every heart with perfect love is filled. But this I know, the skies will thrill with rapture, and myriad, myriad human voices sing, and earth to heaven, and heaven to earth, will answer: 'At last the Savior, Savior of the world, is King!'   Words: William Young Fullerton (1857-1932), 1929 Tune: Londonderry Air 11.10.11.10.D.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>   > Hi, listers. >=20 > This morning I played a funeral at church (I've been organist there=20 > since July 1). An amateur trumpet player (I'll leave it to you to=20 > discern why I put it that way) came up to me after the service and=20 > said "Now, they told you what I do every year this week, right?" I=20 > said, "No, what?" He said "For the prelude before worship this=20 > Sunday, I play 'Danny Boy' on the trumpet, we put the words in the=20 > bulletin." Sure enough, I looked back at previous years and there=20 > it was. "The congregation is invited to read the words as the=20 > melody is played... 'Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes..' " What=20 > the...???? Not even trumpet with organ, just solo trumpet.=20=20=20 > It's Lent, we haven't been having a prelude. I'm not sure the=20 > instrument suits the melody. I'm not sure the player suits the=20 > melody. I'm not sure what "Danny Boy" has to do with a Protestant=20 > worship service. So, I have my musical/theological reservations. >=20 > But, somewhere in the back of my head, I have cultural reservations=20 > as well. As in: doing "Danny Boy" to celebrate the Irish heritage=20 > is about like doing "The King and I" to honor the people of=20 > Thailand. Am I wrong in this? Why or why not? I think it's got=20 > something to do with an American sentimental whitewash of the=20 > culture, almost to the point of caricature, as in a Minstrel Show=20 > claiming to represent African American culture. I need to make a=20 > decision and try to explain this to the man, to the clergy when the=20 > man complains about me, to the congregation members who say "Why=20 > are we doing/not doing this?" >=20 > And yes, I am relatively uptight about stuff like this, so I=20 > appreciate all the people who will tell me "Who cares? Who will=20 > know? Go with the flow." I might decide to do just that, I just=20 > need perspectives. >=20 > Thanks, > Chuck Peery > St. Louis   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...] From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:35:40 EST   In a message dated 3/7/2005 10:31:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nijhuis@email.com writes:   Cannot Tell Why He, Whom Angels Worship       i believe there are words somewhere in Gaither Hymnbooks about the cross = and using this tune. i shall forever, life my eyes to Calvary, where on the cross, he suffered =   there for me.... these words work well also. and it is a GREAT TUNE turn on the trems and celestes and wail away. you will get a raise. dale grinning in Florida because whilst his Cinti teacher is spitting = tacks at the mere thought of it, dale knows he is speaking prophetic = truth........