PipeChat Digest #5201 - Tuesday, March 8, 2005
 
RE: Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...]
  by "Robert Bell" <bobbell@optonline.net>
Re: Bite back; make it work
  by "Roy Kersey" <rkersey@tds.net>
Re: Danny Boy
  by <Justinhartz@aol.com>
Chuck and Danny Boy
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
TV Coverage of State Funeral of Nicola Calipari in Rome
  by <OrganNYC@aol.com>
Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by "Richard Jordan" <mail@gesangbuch.org>
Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
ecstatic pleasure
  by "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr>
Danny Boy
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Chuck and Danny Boy
  by "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...] From: "Robert Bell" <bobbell@optonline.net> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:55:41 -0500   Jan, From the timing, sounds like he does this the Sunday before St. Patrick's Day. I don't think he even equates the season with Lent. Just my 2 cents.   Bob     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Jan Nijhuis Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:31 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Bite Back; make it work... [Re: Danny Boy bites me in the...]   There's something missing here ... why?   Does he have an explaination for why he "does this every year at this = time?" And if it's going to be done at all, is there an expalaination of why? (Tradition or it's the only song he knows are note valid reasons.) Why can it not be played on some other week? (Summer, when everyone is on = vacation?) Then, when it is played, include the REASON in the bulletin.   I agree that the melody isn't well suited for the trumpet, unless perhaps, Winton Marsailis was going to play it. I see no reason at all to print the words in the bulletin and have a congregational sing-along. Without the lyrics it could be introduced as "Londonderry air" -- I'd have less heartburn over that.   I did Google these religious lyrics that work with the tune ... perhaps = they could be used? The second stanza being suited for the season of Lent.   I Cannot Tell Why He, Whom Angels Worship   I cannot tell how he whom angels worship should stoop to love the peoples = of the earth, or why as shepherd he should seek the wanderer with his mysterious promise of new birth. But this I know, that he was born of Mary, when Bethlehem's manger was his only home, and that he lived at Nazareth and labored, and so the Savior, Savior of the world, is come.   I cannot tell how silently he suffered, as with his peace he graced this place of tears, or how his heart upon the cross was broken, the crown of pain to three and thirty years. But this I know, he heals the broken-hearted, and stays our sin, and calms our lurking fear, and lifts the burden from the heavy laden, for yet the Savior, Savior of the world, is here.   I cannot tell how he will win the nations, how he will claim his earthly heritage, how satisfy the needs and aspirations of east and west, of = sinner and of sage. But this I know, all flesh shall see his glory, and he shall reap the harvest he has sown, and some glad day his sun shall shine in splendor = when he the Savior, Savior of the world, is known.   I cannot tell how all the lands shall worship, when, at his bidding, every storm is stilled, or who can say how great the jubilation when every heart with perfect love is filled. But this I know, the skies will thrill with rapture, and myriad, myriad human voices sing, and earth to heaven, and heaven to earth, will answer: 'At last the Savior, Savior of the world, is King!'   Words: William Young Fullerton (1857-1932), 1929 Tune: Londonderry Air 11.10.11.10.D.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>   > Hi, listers. > > This morning I played a funeral at church (I've been organist there > since July 1). An amateur trumpet player (I'll leave it to you to > discern why I put it that way) came up to me after the service and > said "Now, they told you what I do every year this week, right?" I > said, "No, what?" He said "For the prelude before worship this > Sunday, I play 'Danny Boy' on the trumpet, we put the words in the > bulletin." Sure enough, I looked back at previous years and there it > was. "The congregation is invited to read the words as the > melody is played... 'Oh Danny Boy, the pipes the pipes..' " What > the...???? Not even trumpet with organ, just solo trumpet. > It's Lent, we haven't been having a prelude. I'm not sure the > instrument suits the melody. I'm not sure the player suits the > melody. I'm not sure what "Danny Boy" has to do with a Protestant > worship service. So, I have my musical/theological reservations. > > But, somewhere in the back of my head, I have cultural reservations as > well. As in: doing "Danny Boy" to celebrate the Irish heritage is > about like doing "The King and I" to honor the people of Thailand. Am > I wrong in this? Why or why not? I think it's got something to do > with an American sentimental whitewash of the culture, almost to the > point of caricature, as in a Minstrel Show > claiming to represent African American culture. I need to make a > decision and try to explain this to the man, to the clergy when the > man complains about me, to the congregation members who say "Why are > we doing/not doing this?" > > And yes, I am relatively uptight about stuff like this, so I > appreciate all the people who will tell me "Who cares? Who will know? > Go with the flow." I might decide to do just that, I just need > perspectives. > > Thanks, > Chuck Peery > St. Louis   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Bite back; make it work From: "Roy Kersey" <rkersey@tds.net> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 0:01:47 -0500   Hello Jan and Learned Musicians, I read with interest what Jan wrote about Londonderry Air:   <<I agree that the melody isn't well suited for the trumpet, unless = perhaps, Winton Marsailis was going to play it.>>   I immediately got out both my Bb and C trumpets and played it on each. I = disagree about its suitability for trumpet. Like most vocal melodies, = it's fine for trumpet. Both the trumpet and the voice naturally get = louder and more brilliant as they ascend (notwithstanding what we try to = do in French Art Song) and trumpet players are taught to try to "sing" = their melodies, so I think it's a very nice melody for a GOOD trumpeter. = It does require some security in the upper register (to do the exposed = parts @ mf or even piano on one verse, not blasting) and a long line, so = it isn't easy to do well. Playing it in Eb (out of my old "Our Famous = Favorites" vocal book) on the C trumpet brings up a lot of intonation = problems on my C trumpet with all the third line C's in the melody, but = they are solved with alternative fingerings and a decent ear. Better on = the Bb or even transposed lower and played on the flugelhorn. I would agree that it cold be very bad in the hands of a poor or = uncultivated trumpeter. Hard to play in the way that "Traumerei" on the = piano is hard. Has to be phrased just so. I have a feeling that, for the = guy being discussed, "When The Saints Go Marching In" might be better. = But I would like to hear Jared Grenz play it. Which prompts me to ask --- what are your favorite trumpet + organ = pieces to do with soloists? Best Regards, Roy Kersey Organ Enthusiast and Amateur Trumpeter      
(back) Subject: Re: Danny Boy From: <Justinhartz@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 00:04:04 EST   Look at it this way-- You won't have to accompany him :)   Justin  
(back) Subject: Chuck and Danny Boy From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:15:54 -0600   Chuck-if it is the clergy that have a problem with it, then they are the ones who should approach the trumpeter; presumably, they are in charge of the church's worship (which includes music), not you--even if you have = been delegated the responsibility.   There is another set of words, "O son of man, our Hero , strong and = tender" written by one "Frank Fletcher" (1870-1936) with a copyright credit to = OUP. My copy is in "Christian Hymns," 1945, The Christian Foundation, of Columbus, Indiana. It's not a common hymnal to find, but an older = Disciples of Christ congregation might have a copy. Mine is a fifth printing of = 1965.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: TV Coverage of State Funeral of Nicola Calipari in Rome From: <OrganNYC@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 01:03:00 EST   Dear Listers,=20 On the news tonight, I saw coverage on the State Funeral given for Nicola =20 Calipari, the Italian intelligence officer who was shot and killed by Americ= an =20 troops in Iraq while escorting Giuliana Sgrena, the Italian journalist who w= as=20 taken hostage in Baghdad, to freedom. I recognized the church as the=20 Basilica di Santa Maria delgi Angeli (Basilica of St. Mary of the Angels) i= n Rome, =20 which I had the privilege to visit about a year ago. The basilica was=20 originally built as the Baths of Diocletia, but was transformed into a chur= ch by=20 designs of Michaelangelo. The interior is spacious and quite glorious. =20 With a google search, I found and watched archived video of the funeral on =20 RAI television. It was interesting to compare a Roman Catholic funeral in It= aly=20 with what I am familiar with in the US. The television coverage was quite =20 interesting in that many interior and perspective shots were shown. The musi= c =20 was led by a cantor and [volunteer?] choir, and accompanied by organ and =20 instruments. The "Millennium" organ is a 4-manual tracker with 77 registers,= =20 built in the 1990s by Bart=E9l=E9my Formentelli of Verona. One cannot help b= ut notice=20 the very bright and aggressive ripieno and "Cimbalo in terza" on the organ.= =20 It is located in the Chapel of St. Bruno, which is in the liturgical north=20 transept; it's to the left when looking at the high altar. The basilica has= a=20 very active organ concert series. Organ photos and specs can be found on th= e=20 basilica's website at www. santamariadegliangeliroma.it Click on "Organo=20= del=20 Millennio". =20 For those interested in viewing the video of the funeral, it can be found on= =20 the RAI website at =20 http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclick/pc/website/0,4388,4-808-808-CTY15-CID25939= -0-0-0---1-1-ABB0,00.html For a full-screen view,=20 click on the X symbol to the left of "ingrandisci". The ongoing commentary=20 ceases after the entrance of the casket, resumes briefly again during The P= eace,=20 and starts again when the service ends. =20 Steve Lawson - NYC  
(back) Subject: Re: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: "Richard Jordan" <mail@gesangbuch.org> Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 00:43:51 -0600   At 02:33 PM 3/7/05 -0500, you wrote: >not sure the player suits the melody. I'm not sure what "Danny Boy" >has to do with a Protestant worship service. So, I have my >musical/theological reservations.   while Londonderry Air is an Irish melody, the words to Danny Boy are not Irish at all, the author was an English Barister and I had always assumed that the pipes were Scottish [highland pipes] rather than Irish Uliean Pipes   as for strange St Patrick day music <g> I do enjoy arranging Irish tunes for organ and if one observes that Sundays in Lent are not Sundays of Lent, then it could well be permissible to include something   however, Danny Boy is not one of my favorites and falls in the category of Amazing Grace on bagpipes it sounds good on a hill far away, perhaps that would be a good place for your trumpet player to do his thing, after all they are "calling down the mountain side" <g>         Regards, Richard Jordan   http://www.Lutheran-Hymnal.com http://www.OnJordansBanks.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Danny Boy bites me in the... From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 08:11:28 -0000   SORRY .............. And here it is in Plain Text   One Sunday, a couple of years ago, I thought that I'd chose a selection of =   hymns (with modern words) the tunes of which reflected a 'tour' around the =   countries of the British Isles. We had 'Waly-waly' from England; the Ash Grove from Wales, the Mallaig Boat-Song from Scotland; ............. and The Londonderry Air (a.k.a. 'Danny Boy') for Northern Ireland.   And I played my 'version' of Percy Grainger's setting as the Postlude.   I mean: how respectful and representative can I get - on tunes alone.   And the words were quite 'good' additions ........ not trite or vacuous.   SO you can imagine my surprise when a quite distinguished gentleman (Solicitor, et al) took the most violent objection to my having used "That =   Tune" - at "This Time of Year". OK, so it was summer ............. now can you guess?   The 'Marching Season' !   But me, being a typically 'good-ol' boy Englishman' hadn't given it a moment's thought (if it needed one). (Fools rushing in, etc) I suppose I should have tried to achieve 'balance' in my choice of Voluntaries and opened with 'The Black Velvet Band' and concluded with = 'The Sash My Father Wore' ........... ?   Harry Grove   [a.k.a. a musicman who has visited many nooks and crannies of the Emerald Isle since 1969]   Really chewed my own *** off with that last post !    
(back) Subject: ecstatic pleasure From: "John Foss" <harkat@kat.forthnet.gr> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 10:53:34 +0200   Alan Freed wrote:   ".....for your ekstatikos pleasure (I made up that adjective)."   You may have made it up, Alan, but the Greeks made it up before you! Were you to refer to the Greek - English Oxford dictionary - the accepted authority by Greek philologists (lovers of language - love abounds in this =   country) you will find ekstatikos : ecstatic, rapturous, enraptured, = dazed, stunned. I was sorry to see that Greek fonts did not come through - they appeared = as a series of ???? - so I'll stick to English. In addition to referring to the dictionary I phoned the mother of one of = my children (please do not misinterpret that!) who has a double doctorate in Greek Philology - one earned by the sweat of her brow at the University of =   Athens and the other an honorary doctorate conferred on her by the University of Padua for her services to Greek literature and language. She =   confirmed the Oxford Dictionary's definitions - when I go to London she often asks me for specific text books by Greek authors, as she says they = are by far and away the best. Modern Greek classical studies are relatively recent and apparently do not compare with the late 19th and early 20th century British ones. I haven't yet received your off-list message, but if you convince me I am mistaken I will happily withdraw!   Randy Runyon refers to St Paul addressing the Athenians. Paul was widely travelled in Greece, visiting the Corinthians, whose loose morals he upbraided - and our local city of Thessaloniki. He made a hasty exit from = a harbour in the port of Pydna close by when pursued by the Romans. Maybe he =   dropped in on Dion and heard the organ in the city there - an early Hydraulus which has been preserved and a facsimile copy made. Here is a brief extract from a visitor's diary on the internet : ".... The baths, covered in mosaics, really struck me because I never realized that people back then were capable of constructing such things, especially with running water and pressurized steam vents, etc. At the museum of Dion were still more mosaics of the city, as well as statues = that had been pulled from below the earth. The highlight was an ancient instrument called a Hydraulus, which resembles an organ and makes music = when water passes through the bronze pipes." The diarist obviously had not fully grasped the purpose of the water, = which was to provide a steady wind supply. I still maintain - though this is = open to dispute - that the world's first organ was built here! Alexander = started off from here on his voyage of conquest, never returning, but founding the =   city of Alexandrai in Egypt on the way. He had taken Greek craftsmen with him, probably including the local barber, Ctesibius! However, I digress.   On a totally different track, seeing that Felix Hell was playing in Marmoutier, which is not that far from Thessaloniki, I looked up the plane =   times to Strasbourg with a view to going. To my amazement the journey = would have taken almost as long as that to Melbourne - about 36 hours in total! Door to door from my house on Mount Olympus to Bill Glasson in Melbourne = was 40 hours. Alas, I can't spare 3 days for travelling at the moment, and hiring a private jet would be beyond my means. However my disappointment = was alleviated a little by the arrival of Felix's recording made on the Schoenstein organ at First-Plymouth - the first time I have heard his playing. A fine recording.   And another sideline - Chuck Peery wrote "doing "Danny Boy" to celebrate the Irish heritage is about like doing "The King and I" to honor the people of Thailand." The King and I was banned in Thailand - but a friend of mine, a member of the Thai royal family and great grandson of King Mongkut, the King in the story, who I stayed with in Bangkok a couple of years ago (see the thread = on the organ in the Anglican Church there some time back!) said that the Family's view was that generally the film portrayed him in a good light = and they couldn't see what all the fuss was about!   John Foss http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/ http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/      
(back) Subject: Danny Boy From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:03:19 +0800   Some food for thought for those who object to Danny Boy being played in a service. The Methodist Hymn Book (1933) for the UK and Australia has a = hymn No. 809, "I cannot tell why He whom angels worship" to tune Londonderry = Air. The words fit the tune beautifully and it used to be sung frequently in = the Methodist Churches down under. Londonderry Air by now is just that - a beautiful Irish tune and the words "Danny Boy" are not as relevant as they =   may have been 70 or 80 years ago. As General Booth is reported to have = said: "Why should the devil have the best tunes?"   For those interested I have provided one verse below: : "I cannot tell why He, whom angels worship, Should set His love upon the sons of men, Or why, as shepherd he should seek the wanderers To bring them back, they know not how or when. But this I know, that He was born of Mary, That Bethlehem's manger was His only bed, And that He lived at Nazareth and laboured, And so the Saviou, Saviour of the world is come.   I don't know what the politically correct would do with the second line = and shudder to think what a mess they could make of it. In the latest hymn = book used here some of the changes to appease the politically correct defy description - but that's another story.   If anyone wants the rest of the words of this hymn please let me know and = I will send them to you. Bob Elms.       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.4 - Release Date: 7/03/2005    
(back) Subject: Re: Chuck and Danny Boy From: "Bob Elms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:08:47 +0800   That hymn is also in the 1933 Mthodist Hymn Book to tune WELWYN.(Hymn 241) = . However it has not survived the politically correct into our modern hymn books.   Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: Chuck and Danny Boy     > > There is another set of words, "O son of man, our Hero , strong and > tender" > written by one "Frank Fletcher" (1870-1936) with a copyright credit to > OUP. > My copy is in "Christian Hymns," 1945, The Christian Foundation, of > Columbus, Indiana. It's not a common hymnal to find, but an older > Disciples > of Christ congregation might have a copy. Mine is a fifth printing of > 1965. > > Dennis Steckley > Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines >       -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.4 - Release Date: 7/03/2005