PipeChat Digest #5228 - Friday, March 25, 2005
 
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
All Swells
  by "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
PipeChat IRC this evening,
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Good Friday at St. Lambert
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: All Swells
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: Good Friday at St. Lambert
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Market Research
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Market Research
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: New Digital Comparison
  by "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com>
Theater models was New Digital Comparison
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Market Research
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Market Research
  by "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com>
Re: Theater models was New Digital Comparison
  by <LeeMalo@aol.com>
New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments
  by "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca>
 

(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:51:25 EST   In a message dated 3/24/2005 8:11:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, octaaf@charter.net writes:   Against that, I'd suggest that Copeman-Hart is better than Johannus.         remember my plea to compare apples to apples? dale grins  
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:46:09 -0600   But so expensive! That's a real concern with our organ project.   Russ Greene     On Mar 24, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Octaaf wrote:   > Agreed Ross, as is Cantor. However, I don't think it reasonable to > compare a Copeman-Hart, Cantor, or other Musicom driven digital organ > with "sampled" off the shelf organs such as Johannus, Rodgers, or > Allen. Musicom driven organs, being built to order, are strictly > custom and far superior to organs using sample technology in realism > and sound quality IMHO. Of course nothing can replace real pipes, but > Musicom driven organs come pretty close.    
(back) Subject: All Swells From: "Nathan Smith" <erzahler@sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:32:09 -0500   Dear List,   I would like to know if peterson solid-state engines are capable of an all swells function, and whether or not that can be accomplished with the existing swell contacts, or if I have to (ugh) nuke the poor thing even further with peterson shoe contacts. Thanks.   Best,   Nathan    
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:54:11 EST   Russ:   Take a look at this on Ebay. You won't believe what you are seeing.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D16219&item=3D73106= 77382&r d=3D1   A pipe organ that can be taken for a song and is well maintained. The church is to be renovated and the organ simply has to go by June, 2005. At least take a look.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: PipeChat IRC this evening, From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:47:27 -0500   All members of PipeChat are invited to join us in the PipeChat IRC any Friday and Monday evening - beginning at 9.00 PM Eastern Time.   To find out more about the Chat room, or how to get into it, go to PipeChat-L web page at http://www.pipechat.org/   You will find out all you need to know to join us.   Tonight at 9.00 PM, - I hope that we will see you there.   Cheers,   Bob Conway     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 00:54:05 +0800   How about Wyvern/Phoenix or Hoffrichter(http://www.hoffrichter-kirchenorgel= ..de/)? -- With the Hoffrichter MDO, you can get a set of manuals "and, but = cheap" with or without pedal board to run Hauptwerk or as an instrument wit= h built-in voices. Portablility seems to be big here. Plan some extra $$$ f= or changing digital bits to analog air movement.   Phoenix claims (as most digital manufacturers do) a favorable price to soun= d quality point.   As mentioned before, you should also have a peek at Ahlborn-Galanti.   .... and now Veritas (anyone heard of them?) http://www.veritasorgans.com/     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:46:09 -0600   >=20 > But so expensive! That's a real concern with our organ project. >=20 > Russ Greene >=20 >=20 > On Mar 24, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Octaaf wrote: >=20 > > Agreed Ross, as is Cantor. However, I don't think it reasonable=20 > > to compare a Copeman-Hart, Cantor, or other Musicom driven=20 > > digital organ with "sampled" off the shelf organs such as=20 > > Johannus, Rodgers, or Allen. Musicom driven organs, being built=20 > > to order, are strictly custom and far superior to organs using=20 > > sample technology in realism and sound quality IMHO. Of course=20 > > nothing can replace real pipes, but Musicom driven organs come=20 > > pretty close.   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Good Friday at St. Lambert From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:17:07 EST   Steve,   What a WONDERFUL liturgy at St. Lambert. Thanks for sharing it!   Here's what's up (FAR less ambitious) at St. John's, Bowdoin St.   Good Friday Liturgy With the Solemn Collects and Mass of the Presanctified 6:30 PM   No opening hymn; Plainchant Psalm; Passion Gospel chanted by three Cantors At the Veneration of the Cross: Reproaches (Improperia)--T.L.da Vittoria [Crux Fidelis--John of Portugal, if needed] Hymn: 1982 #159 "At the cross her vigil keeping" (Stabat Mater dolorosa) At the Mass of the Presanctified: 1982# 166 "Sin, my tongue, the glorious battle" (Pange Lingua, Fortunatus text) Departure in silence.   Bill H St. John's, Bowdoin St., Boston  
(back) Subject: Re: All Swells From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:05:09 -0600   Nathan,   It's like this -- Peterson engines will do whatever you tell them to do. (as long as it involves up to 16 stages of either opening or closing movement, that is) The swell engines you currently have will probably do very much the same thing.   All-swells is not a "feature" of the swell engine(s) itself, but of the wiring and control equipment of the organ and console. The contacts on = the swell pedal(s) are likewise not really an issue -- if they are there and = in good shape, that is.   Many contemporary organ relay/control systems are capable of an all-swells =   function, even if it is not currently enabled. Even older organ relay systems are often adaptable to all-swells. Contact your organbuilder or maintenance technician who should easily be able to tell you if your instrument is adaptable to this function.   Hope this helps --   Tim   At 09:32 AM 3/25/2005, you wrote: >Dear List, > > I would like to know if peterson solid-state engines are capable of > an all swells function, and whether or not that can be accomplished = with > the existing swell contacts, or if I have to (ugh) nuke the poor thing > even further with peterson shoe contacts. Thanks.      
(back) Subject: Re: Good Friday at St. Lambert From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:09:15 +0800   Gosh, I hope not...   > 1982# 166 "Sin, my tongue, the glorious battle" (Pange Lingua, Fortunatus= text)   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Market Research From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:31:32 -0600   A question, friends:   Suppose you became aware of a supplier of 3M (R) Post it (R) notes, preprinted with blank music staves, or blank guitar tab, and that you could get a 25 sheet pad of these for about fifty cents each. This would be a miniature piece of staff paper, about two inches tall, by 3 inches long, with three staves, or perhaps two staves and a tab staff, running the long way. How many might you purchase?   ns      
(back) Subject: Re: Market Research From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:54:53 -0500   Make it 4 x 6 (inches), just staff ruled (let me put in the clefs and = stuff) and I'm THERE!   :)   --Shirley   On 25 Mar 2005 at 14:31, Noel Stoutenburg expounded:   > A question, friends: > > Suppose you became aware of a supplier of 3M (R) Post it (R) > notes, > preprinted with blank music staves, or blank guitar tab, and > that you > could get a 25 sheet pad of these for about fifty cents > each. This > would be a miniature piece of staff paper, about two inches > tall, by 3 > inches long, with three staves, or perhaps two staves and a > tab staff, > running the long way. How many might you purchase?      
(back) Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison From: "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:06:09 -0800 (PST)   > Subject: Re: New Digital Comparison > From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>   > 30 -40% of Allen's sales are now due to their Theatre Organ line, thanks to > home hobbyists. During the last several years Allen has lost significant > market share in their classical line to Johannus.   I'd be interested to know the factual sources for these opinions, particularly the last one. > Being very knowledgeable about the 2005 models of Allen, Rodgers and Johannus, > there is no doubt that Johannus has the most realistic pipe sound.   "No" doubt? This is hopelessly subjective, as you know. As for your comment about the 2005 models, I play an older, Allen Renaissance model and it's realism is superb. Am I to believe that the realism is worse in newer models?   > Johannus has many, many more models at various price points that Allen and > Rodgers combined.   How many "many's" is that again?? Than the 2 leading manufacturers **combined**? Please quote your sources for such an as-if-fact statement.   A quick check of the three websites produced these facts:   Allen has at least 10 models in their "budget" (Protege) line; 2 in the 2-manual Renaissance line; 9 in the 2-4 manual Renaissance Quantum line; 3 in the Diane Bish Signature Series line; at least 2 in the Renaissance/Pipe combo line. In Allen's Heritage (custom) line there's no number because each organ is different, sort of a model unto itself. Allen also has 10 theater organ lines. So, there are at least 26 church models (not including any custom) and 10 theater.   For Rodgers I counted 8 Trillium; 2 Allegiant; 3 Insignia; and an unknown pipe-combo and custom line. So that's 13 static models, not counting custom.   Rough total of models, not counting custom or theater-only: 39   According to the Johannus site, they offer 5 Opus; 3 Sweelinck; 4 Rembrant; 1 American Classic; 4 Makin and ? Monarke (custom). So that's 17 models, not including custom.   Obviously this is a very rough count, but to me I'm not seeing the "many, many more"..."combined"...you claimed.   --Richard Huggins    
(back) Subject: Theater models was New Digital Comparison From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:18:40 EST   In a message dated 3/25/2005 4:06:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, huggins88@yahoo.com writes:     I'd be interested to know the factual sources for these opinions, particularly the last one.       so would I, but anecdotal evidence exists in watching local dealers. I = have friends doing so all across the country and it would seem to bear out the = fact that Theater organs account for a higher percentage of sales and a = decline in "church" model sales. Johannus has picked up % because they have been aggressive in going after =   the small stuff, like the Opus model and under pricing 4 manuals versus = the competition by thousands of dollars. Like our farmers, government = subsidies, however long a time period, sure is helpful to a company. dale awaiting service of darknessssssss  
(back) Subject: Re: Market Research From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:35:21 -0600   Shirley wrote:   >Make it 4 x 6 (inches), > The largest size 3M (R) Postit (R) I've ever seen is 3 x 5, and there are commercial versions with blank staves of this available through one of the music gift vendors. My personal need is for the smaller version.   ns  
(back) Subject: Re: Market Research From: "N. Russotto" <ravenrockdesigns@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:36:26 -0500   I would buy a few pads of those!     NFRussotto     On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:35:21 -0600, Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> = wrote: > Shirley wrote: > > >Make it 4 x 6 (inches), > > > The largest size 3M (R) Postit (R) I've ever seen is 3 x 5, and there > are commercial versions with blank staves of this available through one > of the music gift vendors. My personal need is for the smaller version. > > ns > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >     -- Nicholas F. Russotto Somers, Connecticut Moderator/Owner: Monarch of Music http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/monarch_of_music/  
(back) Subject: Re: Theater models was New Digital Comparison From: <LeeMalo@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:11:37 EST   I work for an Allen dealership in a major metropolitan market and probably = have one of the largest displays of Allen theatre organs in any showroom = in the country, including a GW-4, host one or two theatre organ clubs a month, = and teach a theatre organ seminar once a month, and I can attest to the fact = that still 90% of our business is in the church market. Lee Maloney  
(back) Subject: New Digital Comparison-Matt's comments From: "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:28:01 -0800   "I disagree on the matter of choosing Rodgers over Johannus for several = reasons. Right off the bat, it is very "iffy" that Rodgers (never profitable = for Roland) will be around for much longer. "   While Matt has the right to his opinion, I wonder, in light of the = recent closing of one of the great pipe organ builders, that comments = like those above do nothing to strengthen an already shaky industry. I = don' t know if others on this list were bothered by his comments, but I = was and have been thinking about this since i read them . Just so the = record is straight, I own an Allen organ, but have toured the Rodgers = factory. ( I was impressed by their work, and recommed taking the tour = if you ever have the chance)=20   Matt, unless u have concrete information that you can share with us, = that the statement above is legitimate, I suggest you appologize to the = list for that comment, I find it very much out of line and hope others = do as well. One of the reasons the other company said they were going = out of business were comments similar to those above.